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Old 10-03-2014, 06:38 AM   #41
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Also, again... If Austin was getting over and they jobbed him out for a year straight, the crowd would have stopped caring. Not to downplay how good he was... but how can you not see that booking played a major part in it? If he never came to WWF to begin with, he would have still been "the cream". He would have just never had the booking that forced him "to the top".
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:47 AM   #42
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That hasnt happend to any of the guys until AFTER theyve shot themselves in the foot. not before. Unless you're claiming some of these enhancement guys are being held back...in which case I would like to introduce you to noid, i think you guys would get along.
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:48 AM   #43
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You think everyone WWE had started to push and then forgotten about has "shot themselves in the foot"?
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:49 AM   #44
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You think everyone WWE had started to push and then forgotten about has "shot themselves in the foot"?
no i think they werent good enough to make the climb to begin with
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:50 AM   #45
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If you're getting lost in the shuffle theres a bigger problem than the booking
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:52 AM   #46
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I mean... I don't even need to go the Ryback route there because I know a lot of people here hate him. I can even go to Cesaro, who I'm personally not as high on as everyone else but who had a shitload of momentum from winning the battle royal at WrestleMania to becoming a "Paul Heyman guy" the next night on Raw. Did he "shoot himself in the foot" before having his momentum killed by shitty booking?
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:59 AM   #47
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I mean... I don't even need to go the Ryback route there because I know a lot of people here hate him. I can even go to Cesaro, who I'm personally not as high on as everyone else but who had a shitload of momentum from winning the battle royal at WrestleMania to becoming a "Paul Heyman guy" the next night on Raw. Did he "shoot himself in the foot" before having his momentum killed by shitty booking?
I dont think he's even close to being on the level as any of the other guys in terms of star power. He'll be a good act for years to come but he's a far cry away from top teir talent. They'll get a few title programs out of him baring injury and timing before he's said and done but he'll never generate revenue. he's not that guy. Love his work though.

these other guys, the difference, they make a very intimate connection. Maybe on a primal level like a reigns or a ryback or on a relatable level like Austin or dusty (or by todays standards anti establishment that most wrestling fans feel is related to them through punk and danielson.)

Zigglers and Cesaros? Solid talent. Good carpenters. But thats about it. Go back to my point: most guys today arent viable. You can blame the writing you can blame the booking but theres a severe lack of star power out there.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:04 AM   #48
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If you're getting lost in the shuffle theres a bigger problem than the booking
And that's where we differ. Most of the roster is lost in the shuffle right now. And it's clearly because of booking. I'm not saying most of the roster is main event-worthy... but you can't tell me that they can't write storylines for these guys. They're not all that worthless. And that's how guys can show their worth and grow. By being involved in storylines and gaining momentum and eventually finding their niche and becoming the next random breakout star. You don't find that guy by ignoring everyone and focusing 6 hours of TV on 6 guys and throwing the rest in random, meaningless matches.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:05 AM   #49
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Quote:
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And that's where we differ. Most of the roster is lost in the shuffle right now. And it's clearly because of booking. I'm not saying most of the roster is main event-worthy... but you can't tell me that they can't write storylines for these guys. They're not all that worthless. And that's how guys can show their worth and grow. By being involved in storylines and gaining momentum and eventually finding their niche and becoming the next random breakout star. You don't find that guy by ignoring everyone and focusing 6 hours of TV on 6 guys and throwing the rest in random, meaningless matches.
They could get something better for them, on that we agree. My point is it still wouldnt be good enough.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:11 AM   #50
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I agree that guys like Ziggler and Cesaro aren't top tier level guys. You can still put SOME effort into them and try to find a diamond in the rough. And even if you don't, you've built a damn good midcard. I think there's 3 or 4 guys on the roster right now who actually have what it takes to be the "next big thing". But they won't get the chance. Because even if they get to that level, like Ryback did, there seems to be a lack of understanding from a booking standpoint of how to ride a wave of momentum. Ryback didn't shoot himself in the foot. Ryback was massively over before he lost that first match and was still getting good reactions the first few months into that losing streak. Even though having a guy get over because he's a monster and then pussifying him into an underdog is fucking mind-blowingly retarded.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:17 AM   #51
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Also, Johnny Curtis.

Just because I haven't said his name in a while.

FUCKING SUPERSTAR
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:18 AM   #52
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The focus on the midcard is lacking, but i can understand why. You're main event is so poor you, as a writer, put all of your energy into it hoping to get something that works. And admittedly they arent doing a very good job there at all. They have a GREAT heel right now but ZERO babies ready to challenge him. Its getting to the point that theyve booked lesnar so strong hoping someone will establish themselves in the meantime that theyve very nearly turned him baby by accident (and I predict they inevitably will unintentionally.) In any event you throw midcard angles together nearly on a whim because you're trying to focus on getting the hard part right. Its about priorities.

I think the best thing they could do is share the load and have the agents get a little more freedom with how their stuff develops with in a set of parameters they match the greater arcs but im getting into a completely different subject (reform of the basic WWE booking model.)
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:52 AM   #53
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The whole 2.9 to 3.4 claim is ridiculous. Before he was sent home, Nitro went back down to two hours. The 2.9 ratings would've been a 3.3-3.5 taking out the third hour.
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:59 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
They might have some guys with steam if they focused at all on building guys up in the midcard over the past 10 years or so.

Coasting for years and now suddenly freaking out and trying to push guys spur of the moment because Cena isn't gonna be around forever might not have been the best plan. No one has momentum.
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If Austin had gotten hot and then they jobbed him out on PPV for almost a year straight instead of riding his momentum, he would have never made it.
This has already beer touched on but; they actively try to dampen the heat of some guys. Cesaro is the single best example. He was gaining traction but they didn't want to run with him just yet, so they cooled him in favour of Reigns. Now Reigns is injured and it's a scrabble to force people back up the card.

They got lucky with Austin, and they ran with it. Seems now they're so reluctant to ride any kind of momentum. Remember a month ago when Swagger was over as hell as a babyface? You might point to it being a "Patriot Pop" but over is over. Now where is he? Losing on Main Event. Now I'm not saying Swagger is a top guy but he's definitely a good hand. They could have put the US title around his waist and added that to the USA-Russia stuff. Instead it's just on Sheamus and means so very little.

Just run with what lands in your lap. Whether it's a hot midcard angle or the next big megastar.

Speaking of the next big megastar...

Quote:
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Johnny Curtis is a megastar waiting to be made. Just sayin'.
Is it me or has Fandango been off TV lately? Maybe time for a more serious repackage?
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Old 10-03-2014, 10:00 AM   #55
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They need to really look at the whole roster. Have as many people involved in some sort of story line as possible. You have 3 hours of RAW, 2 hours of Smackdown, and 1 hour of Main Event. STOP DOING RECAPS. Have these folk wrestle.
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:40 PM   #56
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Yeah, like XL said, they butchered Cesaro in a way that seemed almost intentional. He can be an incredibly valuable upper-midcard guy for years to come. Them pushing Reigns should have had no relation to what they do with him. You can push guys at different levels of the card at the same time. You don't need to "cool off" guys because you're already pushing one. And don't even get me started on the whole intentional jobbing out of guys once they win Money in the Bank. Makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:27 PM   #57
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I dont think he's even close to being on the level as any of the other guys in terms of star power. He'll be a good act for years to come but he's a far cry away from top teir talent. They'll get a few title programs out of him baring injury and timing before he's said and done but he'll never generate revenue. he's not that guy. Love his work though.

these other guys, the difference, they make a very intimate connection. Maybe on a primal level like a reigns or a ryback or on a relatable level like Austin or dusty (or by todays standards anti establishment that most wrestling fans feel is related to them through punk and danielson.)

Zigglers and Cesaros? Solid talent. Good carpenters. But thats about it. Go back to my point: most guys today arent viable. You can blame the writing you can blame the booking but theres a severe lack of star power out there.
This is where I agree with you. People think that just because guys can work that they can be main eventers. Those kind of guys are just so few and far between.
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Old 10-04-2014, 12:11 AM   #58
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Well I have enjoyed everything since the departure of Daniel Bryan so its all good with me.
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Old 10-04-2014, 03:01 AM   #59
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Quote:
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This is where I agree with you. People think that just because guys can work that they can be main eventers. Those kind of guys are just so few and far between.
Thinking about this; I've always been storyline > match. On the TV shows I want to see storyline progression and I'll often fast forward through matches, yet I've always pushed for the guys that can go in the ring to get a push. Benoit, Jericho, Punk, Bryan, etc.

I guess for me I want the match to be driven by the storyline but I also want it to be technically sound. As the main event scene is the only place with storylines, I guess I have to watch those guys up top.
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Old 10-04-2014, 03:25 AM   #60
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Even if every match doesn't have a storyline revolving around it, I need at least character development to come from it. That's why I've said before I'd rather watch a squash match than a technically sound match that means nothing. At least a squash builds up a character.

A couple years ago when Sheamus was World Champion, he had a couple great matches on Raw with Damien Sandow. There wasn't a story behind them but they worked simply because the characters were established and the matches told the simple story of where both guys stood. Everyone benefited. Sandow had been winning matches and looking great. Sheamus was looking unbeatable. They faced each other and Sandow took him to the limit but in the end Sheamus won, showing that he's still a beast and that Sandow isn't on his level but he's right on the cusp.

Now guys get pushed for a month, jobbed out, pushed for a month, jobbed out, etc. so much that nothing feels like it matters. There's your handful of main eventers and then there's everyone else in this big mess below them. If you're not a main eventer, you're part of that big mess regardless of the outcomes of your matches. Simply building a couple guys' momentum and then seeing how they fair against each other is enough. It's not like you even need complex, super creative storylines everywhere on the card.
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Old 10-04-2014, 04:38 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by im just a fan View Post
Well I have enjoyed everything since the departure of Daniel Bryan so its all good with me.
You aren't a fan.

Leave. Leave and never return.
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Old 10-04-2014, 04:39 AM   #62
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I've just written about David Arquette being world champion so right now i'm a little bit pissed off. Russo booked it, so fuck him and his opinion. How good was that FUCKING steak?
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:26 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
You aren't a fan.

Leave. Leave and never return.
Nope im just a fan and am not going anywhere as for Bryan you cant say the sho hasnt been better since he left.
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Old 10-04-2014, 05:06 PM   #64
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The show hasn't been better since he left.

There, I said it.
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Old 10-04-2014, 05:08 PM   #65
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Well you're not lying. It created one less ready made main eventer to feed to Lesnar.
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Old 10-04-2014, 07:59 PM   #66
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What is it about Bryan that every one likes so much?
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:56 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by im just a fan View Post
Nope im just a fan and am not going anywhere as for Bryan you cant say the sho hasnt been better since he left.
It hasn't been better since he's been gone. Asshole. Oops I said it.
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:57 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
I've just written about David Arquette being world champion so right now i'm a little bit pissed off. Russo booked it, so fuck him and his opinion. How good was that FUCKING steak?
No response Darkness?

Owned Hetero.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:35 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
It hasn't been better since he's been gone. Asshole. Oops I said it.
Ok what ever putting the title on Bryan was a great idea that led to a lot of ideas creativily, not.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:44 PM   #70
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Shitty writers and then he got hurt because the shitty writers made him wrestle like 2 or 3 times a night 1000 times.
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Old 10-05-2014, 01:33 AM   #71
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Most over guy in the company, puts on great matches, sells tons of merch. Yep, that guy sucks and they're clearly better off without him.
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Old 10-05-2014, 03:16 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by im just a fan View Post
What is it about Bryan that every one likes so much?
I can't speak for anybody else but here's why I like Bryan;

I've always had an affinity for the guys that have dedicated themselves to the business. The guys that have travelled the world, moving from shitty hotel to shitty hotel for a tiny pay check. The guys that have learned their craft, mastered different styles and fused them together. Those guys do it for the love of the business, not the spotlight, or the money. They plug away, striving to get noticed, they get a chance on the big show, and usually face further adversity in terms of being seen as a viable commodity by the suits, yet still they dig in, work hard and eventually they get there, showing that hard work and perseverance can pay off.

What's not to like about a story like that? Almost a true underdog story. I'm talking about guys like Eddie Guerreo, Chris Benoit, CM Punk, Mick Foley, and if anything Bryan personifies that under dog story more than anybody ever has. He also seems like one of the most genuinely down-to-earth guys in the business which helps people connect to him.
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Old 10-05-2014, 04:03 AM   #73
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My non-wrestling fan girlfriend just asked me what I was typing, so I explained and asked her if and why she liked Bryan. She said that he is exciting in the ring, enjoyable to watch.

Is that not the bottom line of it?

For all of the history of the actual person, for the years of hardship, the struggle to get over on TV, the negative connotations of being an "Internet Darling", for the "he doesn't have the right look", for all of the bullshit we slap on top of things, the casual viewer like Daniel Bryan because he is exciting to watch.
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Old 10-05-2014, 09:09 AM   #74
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I'll be honest I wasn't on the Daniel Byran express until Team Hell No started up.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:29 AM   #75
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NXT seems to be the best booked show on tv really, might be because everything seems to have a point or that there is little to no recaps but probably because Enzo and Big Cass are on it.
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Old 10-09-2014, 03:40 PM   #76
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Probably both. NXT's sole purpose is to develop talent both in ring and as fleshed out characters. Everyone on the card has a purpose and something they're specifically involved in. There's more storyline development in one hour of NXT than the entire week's worth of programming for the main roster.
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:56 PM   #77
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The best thing about NXT is that it's only an hour long. That time is valuable, so they use it wisely. They don't have to fill 5 hours of TV time with replays.
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