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Old 05-03-2007, 04:56 PM   #41
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Saw it last night. It's bloated and cheesy. The dialogue is almost George Lucasian.

Did not like it too much.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:03 PM   #42
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Sounds like a comic book movie. How dare they treat Spiderman as such
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:56 PM   #43
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Be fair. No comic book is as cheesey as Star Wars.
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:42 PM   #44
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fair enough. Cheesiness doesn't neccesarily mean bad, it depends on the genre. If a drama movie is cheesy as hell unintentionally, no good. If a comic book or action/adventure based on old saturday morning serials is, it's fitting it's genre. Fanboys who think they know their shit want Star Wars and Spiderman films to suddenly be treated and directed as though they were going for an academy award.

Scorcese isn't gonna be brought on to direct your beloved summer blockbusters because that's not what they're going for, they're going for the demographic that people were in when they fell in love with that franchise. You guessed it, kids. And kids don't wanna see great dialouge, so we get "Lucasian" dialouge and not Obi Wan and Anakin smoking cigarettes waxing intellectual at a cofee shop a la Tarontino.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:01 PM   #45
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By cheesy, I meant ridiculously so that you are unable to take the movie seriously and it is difficult to watch.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:02 PM   #46
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The problem is, people treat Raimi like he's a genius, when he's really not. So they're already putting their precious popcorn flick up on a pedestal as though it were directed by someone in the major panthenon of filmmaking.

That being said, I think CoE, who likes Cheesy slasher flicks and Tarrantino, probably didn't go in expecting it to be a masterpiece of cinematic brilliance. I'd therefor ask myself what would make him think it was cheesey and bloated, and think that maybe for the genre, it was bad.

That doesn't mean I trust him unconditionally, or believe him to be the best source. Sure as fuck don't mean I'm gonna skip it. I mean, I already kinda expect it not to live up to the hype. As I said previously, the logic in that last Spider-Man was so horrible it made wrestling look Machiavellian.

I also have to say, and this is another repeat, the movies are not like the comics. Someone who is expecting comic book dialogue doesn't get it. There is less depth to the movie franchise than to the comic series. On top of that, they fail to capture the action, banter, and overall raison d'être of Spider-Man. I mean, I grew up on the comics. Hell, my father had a collection from some of the earliest Amazgins, and had all the old Spectaculars (Peter Parker), and I followed the comics until like 2000 or so. I still read some here and there. And honestly, when you can't hack the depth of a comic book, I'm disappointed.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:23 PM   #47
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OK there seems to be a certain type of thought process in this forum and it create a fucked up message whenever they are said.

What I meant about the whole next 'big saga' like star wars statement - I didn't literally mean it in all its seriousness. More TO ME, in my opinion. The story of Spiderman, the messages of power, responsibility and the way Raimi has presented it on screen, the actors, hell even the score, TO ME its only got to half way of a bigger story, something even quite profound.

Of course it cannot replace SW, but to me its the platform for ONE OF THE greatest stories ever told. Thats my opinion.

But if they made the 6, and each one simply got better, and the entire 6 created such a story arc that it really impressed enough people in the same way, I would actually go as far to say it would compete with the recognition Star Wars has. As good as a story/films they are. Let's be honest, the newer ones sucked. Except for Sith I guess, that was pretty good.

At the end of the day, to each is own.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:42 PM   #48
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Eragon is the next Star Wars.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:55 PM   #49
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I remember you said you liked it, or liked the books and was gonna watch it. I really can't see the appeal. My main reason was that I said I would never watch another film with Jeremy Irons in a film that had dragons. I actually said that after I watched D&D, yet had no idea that would actually come about to happen again.

I dunno, I don't like the look of the kid's acting or the CGI of the dragon as a baby. It just gave me a real bad vibe. Apart from that I should give it a chance. But prob won't.
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:54 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
The problem is, people treat Raimi like he's a genius, when he's really not.
The man that created Evil Dead is a genius to me....

I dont even care about the Spiderman movies when his name is mentioned. The only reason I would even say Spiderman when referring to Raimi is because barely anyone has seen the Evil Dead series.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:27 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kano
I remember you said you liked it, or liked the books and was gonna watch it. I really can't see the appeal. My main reason was that I said I would never watch another film with Jeremy Irons in a film that had dragons. I actually said that after I watched D&D, yet had no idea that would actually come about to happen again.

I dunno, I don't like the look of the kid's acting or the CGI of the dragon as a baby. It just gave me a real bad vibe. Apart from that I should give it a chance. But prob won't.
I specifically said it because it LITERALLY is the next Star Wars. It comes from the same mold.

Not because it was good. In fact, the movie sucked ass. Not because it's different from the books, but because it's shitty storytelling. But it's Very Much Star Wars. Check the Eragon thread, because someone made a HUGE in depth post on it. I don't care to overanalyse that shit. But it wasn't a statement of quality. Let's face it though: Lucas made a series that is priceless to so many because of concepts that are not Unique, storytelling elements which are appealing on some visceral level.

Paolini did the same thing. He drew from elements of Tolkien and Lucas, who each drew on elements of others...
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:28 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy
The man that created Evil Dead is a genius to me....

I dont even care about the Spiderman movies when his name is mentioned. The only reason I would even say Spiderman when referring to Raimi is because barely anyone has seen the Evil Dead series.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:37 PM   #53
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Yes, Shaggy. Evil Dead is a precious undiscovered cult treasure that only you and 6 other people on the planet know about.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:07 AM   #54
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Quote:
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Yes, Shaggy. Evil Dead is a precious undiscovered cult treasure that only you and 6 other people on the planet know about.
7 other people.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:34 AM   #55
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Yea except the fact that it's so famous for being a cult flick that it has trancended that and become pretty mainstream. I know it's the trendy thing, but when the posters and tshirts are available at every store in the mall, and there's multiple special edition dvds, video games, action figures etc. , it's not such an underground hidden gem. Doesn't lessen how good the movie or it's hardcore fans are, but I'm just saying. So many things have a cult following at this point that they've bascially grown to low level mainstream.
It's like when non-conformity and all that shit becomes so cool, that it becomes the conformity. Like emo and shit, it's not underground and different when it's the pop. It's just a wolf in sheep's clothing, or perhaps a sheep in wolf's clothing. Who knows.

Not that I'm in any way comparing Evil Dead or it's role in culture to the miserable joke that is non-conformist emo shit.
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:54 AM   #56
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No you see what Im saying is that yes...there is a big cult following behind Evil Dead...but there are still tons of people that have never seen it and would never know anything about it unless you mention a guy with a chainsaw for an arm. Then they mention something about seeing Army of Darkness are seeing it on a shirt.

Evil Dead does have a huge fan base....but its not big enough to where people think of it when they hear Raimi's name.

also...

Just got back from Spiderman 3....

very very very very disapointed

Unless there was a fight going on...it was just pure boredom...

Venom is kick ass...but its weird to hear the meek voice of Topher Grace coming out of him.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:29 AM   #57
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Just got back from a midnight showing. Early birthday gift. I can easily say I can die a happy man.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:53 AM   #58
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Some of the issues of cult films and whatnot are pretty simular to what I have been talking about and been studying on my cult film course at uni, good points. But whenever there is a discussion about it, you have to remember a cult film will have fans, and then cultists. It can go on and on, but you have to draw a line somewhere.
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:17 AM   #59
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It was entertaining yet disappointing at the same time.
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Old 05-04-2007, 10:03 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy
No you see what Im saying is that yes...there is a big cult following behind Evil Dead...but there are still tons of people that have never seen it and would never know anything about it unless you mention a guy with a chainsaw for an arm. Then they mention something about seeing Army of Darkness are seeing it on a shirt.

Evil Dead does have a huge fan base....but its not big enough to where people think of it when they hear Raimi's name.

also...

Just got back from Spiderman 3....

very very very very disapointed

Unless there was a fight going on...it was just pure boredom...

Venom is kick ass...but its weird to hear the meek voice of Topher Grace coming out of him.
It's less of a cult flick than "Blair Witch."

I mean, there are blockbusters with less people who have seen 'em.

By the way, did they at least Goa'uld his voice when he's Venom proper?
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:26 PM   #61
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Yea, saying "there's people who haven't seen it and don't know it" doesn't make it a any less mainstream. There's people who haven't seen the most popular and well known of things, trust me, there's a lot of oblivious people out there.


As for Venom, yes they sort of do the voice effect. It's not as deep and echoing as in the cartoons, but its definitely got the stereo echo thing goin on. I don't mind Topher Grace at all. I felt the movie was perfectly fine, but the ending got overdone and too much was involved in what should have been a one on one affair.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:01 PM   #62
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Venom and Brock really shouldn't sound similar. In fact, I'd hire one actor as the voice of Venom, separate from the guy who played Brock. Most villains will sound the same, but Venom is something wholly different from Brock in almost every incarnation.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:08 PM   #63
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Was a little dissapointed they he didn't say "we" instead of "I"
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:14 PM   #64
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I have just returned from watching S3 and i have to say i am a little disappointed. Too much is crammed into the film, which leaves it feeling rather hollow. And lol@peter's heel turn, has too be seen to be believed.

Some parts of the film work really well. Sandman is an awesome enemy and could have been as well fleshed out as Doc Oc given the time....but he isn't.

The effects are good and the set action pieces are pretty awesome.

But fuck the filmakers for making Venom the way they have. He is supposed to be peter parkers greatest enemy, his biggest threat. So they give him barely any screen time and a weak end V

Venom Should have owned this movie, and they could have done it really well. Instead they have crammed a ton of shit into the film that is not needed.

I enjoyed it as it is spiderman after all, but i am also sorely disappointed. It should have been much much better. they dropped the ball.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:24 PM   #65
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IMO, Venom's storyline won't end.

Maybe the Brock/Venom storyline is done, which is a shame. However, Connors still had a piece of the symboite which could easily bond with someone else and or can bond with what escaped from the building (which I'm sure happened).

They should've ended the film right when Brock transformed into Venom in the bell tower.

That could've setup Spiderman 4 with Venom as the main villian and then maybe Lizard as the secondary.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:45 PM   #66
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It's an example of a movie that is still pretty good, but is dissapointing. What could have been great was only good.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:53 PM   #67
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All the problems with the ending could have been solved with a few things.

Once Sandman is sucked down the drain...let him go. Maybe bring him back down the road, maybe even do that shot to let us know he lived. But drop him for the movie.

The ending then would have been about Venom and Spidey. I then would have had Harry get involved, but as a complete suprise.

And the other thing, Sandman should have been revealed to not be the killer. It should have been revealed that the other guy did shoot Ben, and handed the gun back to him got in the car and ditched him. Then Flint fled. That would explain why Flint wasn't in the car with his accomplice. As for the prisonmate who claimed he confessed to him..well have that be a lie, maybe even have that prisonmates name dropped in passing as...Kletus Kassidy.

If those things were cut out, and the ending was a clear cut battle between just Venom and Spidey with Harry as a tweener dancing both sides until he made the right choice, it would have been solved.
Also, since that would still be one scene exposure for Venom it'd be nice to see Brock apprehended and the suit get away.
Last edited by Jeritron; 05-04-2007 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:56 PM   #68
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Anything would have been better than that cluster fuck of an ending.
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:16 PM   #69
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Atleast there is still a chance for Venom to return...the professor still has a piece of the symbiote
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:41 PM   #70
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Yea, mini venom...
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:48 PM   #71
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Quote:
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Was a little dissapointed they he didn't say "we" instead of "I"
The Symbiote's no longer the same thing it was in the comics, though.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:16 PM   #72
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Really, really disappointed with it. I mean, I guess it was okay, but that whole movie was sort of a clusterfuck not just the ending. And I hate it when these comic book movies deviate SO FAR from the comics. I mean, I understand that they don't need to be identical but I hate crap that is just totally rewritten for the movie. (SPOILER COMING, Highlight) Like KILLING OFF Spider Man's BIGGEST enemy (arguably, I'm talking about Venom) after he is in an entire half a movie. KILLING OFF Harry Osborne ALREADY. That one I can tolerate though, but the Venom thing is inexcuseable. I can see, though, think about when he threw the grenade at the sybiote it wasn't COMPLETELY destroyed and you see Eddie Brock's skeleton as he is being "incinerated" or so it seems. They could play the angle of he wasn't killed, the explosion caused a permanent bonding of the symbiote with Brock and now he is entirely in Venom form, and cant go back to being human. OR...the explosion with the symbiote creates the symbiote that will become Carnage.
^---Sorry, I'm a little intoxicated and rambling.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:55 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
IMO, Venom's storyline won't end.

Maybe the Brock/Venom storyline is done, which is a shame. However, Connors still had a piece of the symboite which could easily bond with someone else and or can bond with what escaped from the building (which I'm sure happened).

They should've ended the film right when Brock transformed into Venom in the bell tower.

That could've setup Spiderman 4 with Venom as the main villian and then maybe Lizard as the secondary.
I dont know what story they would go with, but it was either, the original comic, the ultimate comic, or the cartoon that had the symbiote split whenever it was on fire and not on a host.

If they really wanted to Im sure they could think of a way to have eddie "saved" by the symbiote or something.

If they really wanted every nerd to cum their pants they can have carnage in the next one, if there is one. They kind of left it open for the lizard to be a villain just because the doctor is in it, and of course the small peice of the suit that he has. Im pretty sure Felicia Harding is the black cat, but they might be able to do that story line with gwen stacy. Plus theres the endless amount of bad guys that they could find any way to throw in there.


In terms of the movie, it is a visual masterpeice. With Venom being my favorite comic book character ever, I of course wish he had a much bigger role, but the movie still kicked ass. Other than the remaining peice of suit, they really tied up almost every storyline possible, which i cant decide whether its good or bad but whatever.
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Old 05-04-2007, 05:20 PM   #74
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Pretty dissapointed after seeing this last night. It was bad.

Gotta say though, they have done a fine job slowly bringing Connar into the spot-light movie to movie. And I love the introduction of the Black Cat. So thats good.

Movie was terrible though.
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Old 05-04-2007, 05:21 PM   #75
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Reavant It's bad because they tied them up into a messy knot of shit.

I have had time to think about it a bit more now and i dislike the film more now than i did earlier.

I loved all the action sequences, they were fantastic. However the script sucked and it felt like the story hadn't been given any REAL thought.

Oh and Gwen Stacy isn't the black cat, i am pretty sure you're right on that Reavant.
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Old 05-04-2007, 05:28 PM   #76
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Okay, so there's a remaining piece of suit. That means they want to set up a symbiote return. Maybe it'll be Venom, or maybe it'll be Carnage, or maybe neither. In any event, unless there's something specific, it looks like they wanted to keep this open.

Hope it's not Carnage, but this seems an obvious choice.
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:55 PM   #77
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Saw the movie. I don't have time for a proper review but I can tell you this: It was clearly Harry Osborne's movie.
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:05 PM   #78
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I thought Franco and Grace were the best in this movie...althought it was kinda hard to watch Topher Grace in this movie where in my mind I kept on thinking he was Eric from that 70s Show...

Im wondering if that little piece of the suit will be used in the future of the series (if they make more). Perhaps they just forgot that there was that little piece and figured the fans wouldnt think much of it. Or perhaps they left it there for us to speculate on the future..

Since you never really saw any indication that Venom was killed..(all you saw was a little bit of the symbiote on the ground) makes me hope that they will bring him back...and perhaps use that other little piece to make Carnage and make a Spiderman Dream movie...Venom Vs Spidey Vs Carnage...
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:16 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingofOldSchool
It was entertaining yet disappointing at the same time.
This is exactly what I think.

I damn sure got my $6 worth of movie, no doubt about it. Spiderman vs Goblin, struttin' Pete, Venom, Sandman, typical Spiderman responsibility/choices schtick... it was all there.

My only issue is that it wasn't balanced very well.

Oh, and for those of you crying about Venom: the villain isn't dead unless there's a body. Always remember that.
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:28 PM   #80
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And even then, not always.

Especially since this is a comic book movie. Norman Osbourne came back. Hell, Spider-Man's died a couple times. Venom died. Sorta. Carnage died like 8000000000 times. Sandman? Died. I think the Vulture died before he came back.
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