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Old 08-01-2016, 01:22 PM   #1
hb2k
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Your most "Against The Grain" opinion on wrestling
So for this week's podcast, we're looking to talk about viewpoints contrary to popular opinion, and are looking to get some feedback.

What do you see as something most people enjoyed (a wrestler, a show, an angle, a gimmick, etc) but didn't click with you at all? What was it and why didn't it work for you?

This can go vice versa as well, did something really click with you but is largely panned by others? And why did you like it so much?

As always the best contributions will be read on the show and you'll be credited accordingly - so what's your most "against the grain" opinion?

EDIT - Part 1 of our shows on your "Against The Grain" opinions, featuring many of your contributions, is now online and available to listen to at the following link: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean....ain_Part_1.mp3




Crazy Like A Fox - The Definitive Chronicle of Brian Pillman 20 Years Later
**Featuring interviews with members of the Pillman family, Dave Meltzer, Kim Wood, Raven, Jim Cornette, Mark Madden, Shane Douglas, Mark Coleman, Alex Marvez, Les Thatcher and many more close friends and colleagues**
Available on Amazon now:
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Old 08-01-2016, 01:27 PM   #2
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I was a fan of the stable X-Factor, and loved X-Factor's theme music.

I was also a huge fan of Austin's heel turn and heel run, and would have kept Austin heel until Wrestlemania 18 (doing the job to face Angle). Most people felt that converting Austin back into a face after Survivor Series 2001 was good for business (due to Austin's failure as a heel up until that point), but I would argue that the WWE had reached a point of no return (i.e. even if you turned Austin back into a face, he wouldn't be as big as he once was.........along with the fact that heel Austin would've been far more credible than heel Jericho in terms of doing a meaningful job at Mania').
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Old 08-01-2016, 01:31 PM   #3
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Fuck Rusev and the fan's that find him entertaining.

New Day is Lame as hell.
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Old 08-01-2016, 01:38 PM   #4
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I find RVD extremely terrible. I will preface this by saying I never saw him in ECW. I did see his entire WWE career, though.... and it seems to me that all he ever did was coast on whatever the hell he did in ECW to get so popular. Fact was, he just was not that good. Repetitive matches, some of the weakest punches ever, and found his whole persona just so "meh".

"Raises my ire" when I see guys continually praise him, and I'm just here going "He was not good. At all. Maybe the first two or three times I saw him he was exciting because he was new, but after that, he was just so lame"

Good for him for making a career out of coasting on ECW, though.
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Old 08-01-2016, 01:41 PM   #5
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Easy, Daniel Bryan. Never was a fan of his as American Dragon and still think he had no business anywhere near the main event in WWE. His matches bore me and he his mic work is sub par in my opinion. Will always rank WM 30 as the worst WM ever because of him. I guess my biggest problem with his is I just couldn't see him a realistic competitor to guys like Orton, Batista, HHH, or Cena.
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Old 08-01-2016, 01:43 PM   #6
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Also, I did not enjoy Stone Cold Steve Austin as a face. I enjoyed him in his feud with Bret Hart, and then kind of adopted Bret's hatred for him. He wasn't a role model or anyone to look up to, and I was disgusted by him being the face of the company. Thought it was "cool" when he was a bad guy vs Bret, but as the good guy, no way.

I started to enjoy him again after he turned heel and had his antics with Vince/Angle. Then promptly did not enjoy him once he was a face again.
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Old 08-01-2016, 01:50 PM   #7
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As for vice versa I would have to go with TNA. I watch TNA every week and enjoy it just as much if not better than Raw some weeks. I have different standards when it comes to WWE and TNA and I feel a lot of people hold them to the same, which is ok. I expect WWE to be great every week, they are at the top so I expect to be entertained to the fullest. With shows like ROH and Impact I don't have those high standards but they often out perform what standards I do have for them. I really like TNAs roster and they have been pushing the right talent for about 2 years now. They are also developing some really young guys and moving them up the card lately.
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Old 08-01-2016, 01:58 PM   #8
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I really really hated Christian and I'm starting to feel the same way about Dolph Ziggler.

Al Snow with Head was more entertaining than Mankind with Mr Socko.
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Old 08-01-2016, 03:08 PM   #9
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I like Sasha Banks as a worker but I do not dig her boss gimmick, and don't rate her character work minus the genuine emotion displayed in her title victory. I don't understand her character. It just feels forced... She's trying to act like this badass but she's doing these weird dance taunts and head movements. It seems like an act, which it shouldn't. I feel like she's just one step away from talk to the hand, but the face don't understand. Very lame.
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Old 08-01-2016, 03:25 PM   #10
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Ambrose, in his current incarnation, doesn't do it for me.
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Old 08-01-2016, 03:44 PM   #11
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Still not a big fan of Cena even after the US Open Challenge series. Most of it is due to WWE's booking of him than anything related to Cena himself.
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Old 08-01-2016, 04:30 PM   #12
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Sheamus was and still is one of my favorites. I think he gets way too much shit, and I don't think he looks stupid with the mohawk/beard combo.

He's just a great smashmouth/brawler type, and while I agree that his face run with the whole 1-800-FELLA shtick was bland as fuck, he's back to his true form now. Badass heel Celtic Warrior Sheamus is his perfect role.

Oh, and his new music (Hellfire) is one of the best in WWE.
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Old 08-01-2016, 04:55 PM   #13
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Kerwin White seriously had some incredible potential as a gimmick if they would have let it breathe a bit and let it take a dark turn to where Kerwin would start claiming discrimination when things didn't go his way. I really wish that would have panned out.
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Old 08-01-2016, 05:32 PM   #14
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I prefer Biker Taker to Deadman Taker. There, I said it.
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Old 08-01-2016, 05:32 PM   #15
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Becky Lynch is average.
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Old 08-01-2016, 05:45 PM   #16
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Never saw ANYTHING in Christian, except the blue dot. Edge too for that matter.
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Old 08-01-2016, 06:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Kerwin White seriously had some incredible potential as a gimmick if they would have let it breathe a bit and let it take a dark turn to where Kerwin would start claiming discrimination when things didn't go his way. I really wish that would have panned out.
Yeah, was pretty great. Unfortunately, I think it was probably Eddie's untimely death just a few months after the debut of his gimmick as White that caused him to go back to just being plain old Chavo.
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Old 08-01-2016, 06:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I prefer Biker Taker to Deadman Taker. There, I said it.
Heel biker taker was awesome. Face biker taker was a tosser
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Heel biker taker was awesome. Face biker taker was a tosser
Agree with this sentiment.
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:46 PM   #20
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I am a fan of the Triple H run of doom with the heavyweight title that everyone seems to hate. It ceryainly had its flaws. Overly long promos, the first Steiner match, Katie vick. But the thing that everyone sseems to overlook, is that run established credibility to a title that was little more than a joke, thanks to wcw's dying days fuckery. Benoit's WM 20 victory to obtain it would not have been as epic as it was without Triple H's long reign with that title. It probably wouldn't have even main evented.

On tne flipside, I have to echo Lockjaw's thouhts on RVD. I loved him in ECW, but when he got to the wwe, outside of specialty matches, he just did the same routine every match. Just going tjrough thw motions. He started putting more effortmin when he became wwe champ, but that obviously disn't last long. Mystetio pulled the same thing in his final years in thw wwe, but at least he was entertaining for tje majority of his run.
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
Heel biker taker was awesome. Face biker taker was a tosser
Yeah, I dunno if this can even be considered against the grain.

Heel biker taker is universally praised I tjink.
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:51 PM   #22
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Please excuse tje spelling errors caused by my shit tablet's keypad
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:52 PM   #23
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god damn it THE not TJE
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Old 08-01-2016, 08:02 PM   #24
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sjit tablet keyboard*
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Old 08-01-2016, 08:03 PM   #25
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The Miz is one of the greatest heels of his generation.
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Old 08-01-2016, 08:27 PM   #26
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Gotta say the CM Punk "leaving the WWE with the title" storyline from 2011. WWE blew that one big time. Could've made Punk a Mount Rushmore type of megastar. Would've been one of the top angles on history if done right
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Old 08-01-2016, 08:31 PM   #27
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What is against the grain about that? I think it would be more "against the grain" to say they did the right thing.

Which I think they did at the start. People said they shouldn't have brought him back so soon, I say screw that, it was right to bring him back. The angle only started going off the rails when it lead to a CM Punk vs Diesel feud that somehow lead to a Triple H vs Diesel match.
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Old 08-01-2016, 08:37 PM   #28
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I think that Eva Marie has an it factor that no diva since Trish, or maybe even Sable or Chyna, has had. She is a superstar waiting to happen, and the fact that she gets such passionate reactions is great because 75% of the roster gets crickets. I'm a BIG Eva Marie supporter.
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Old 08-01-2016, 09:31 PM   #29
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I actually can think of a lot, but my main one would have to be the general love for Dean Ambrose. I find his look, mic skills, gimmick, and in-ring ability all sub-par. I truly do. When I normally dislike a very liked wrestler, I can at least say that I understand why they could be appealing to others. But I truly do find everything about him not just "not great", but below average. Dean Ambrose should be a mid-card wrestler.

His look is about as bad as it gets - If he is to be the potential "top dog", him compaired to main eventers like HHH, Rock, Cena, etc, he looks like they just grabbed him from a booth in McDonalds. Since he isn't ripped, he should look tough/like he can kick my ass, but he doesn't. Guys like Austin for instance, they weren't ripped, but he still looked like he could kick someone's ass. Ambrose looks like he hasn't exercised in his life, and hasn't slept in weeks. Just doesn't look, healthy to me .... So, that leaves speed. HBK, Rollins, guys like that look like they have the speed to beat bigger guys. Ambrose looks like he has 0 quickness. The only credible champion that his appearance could be compared to off the top of my head is Foley. But Foley made up for that with ...

Mic skills. This is probably Ambrose's best feature, and I honestly even do find him to be below average here. I find him dull, and sometimes even corny when he cuts a promo. He doesn't, excite me, when he's on the mic.

His gimmick is meh to me. Foley was Mankind, Cactus Jack, Dude Love, even Mic Foley. When Foley was simply himself, that was enough. With Dean, not so much ... He's nothing really, he just came in with The Shield until they split, and that's about it. No idea about his backstory, which wouldn't matter if he had any type of character whatsoever. But he doesn't, he's just a wrestler. "The Lunatic Fringe" means nothing more than a bad nickname to me. I've yet to see him be much of lunatic, in a time where Jericho at his age, is the one taking thumbtack bumps. A lunatic is Brian Pillman, Roddy Piper. Not Dean Ambrose.

Lastly, in-ring skills. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. His best performances are average at best.

..... Other than my opposite opinion of Dean Ambrose I have a quite a few more. Just to throw some out, I first would say that I 100% agree with drave, Miz is the goods. I really think his current gimmick is his best and if pushed right could get over big as a heel.

Wasn't on the Daniel Bryan wagon. I enjoyed his in-ring work, but that's all. Found the Yes movement, and Team Hell No annoying. (Team Hell No is another one, it seemed everybody but me loved them). ... Ok that's enough for now. Great topic btw.
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Old 08-01-2016, 09:36 PM   #30
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Bray Wyatt will never be the top heel he could have been when he was first introduced. He is overrated as a talker, is almost always injured, and chases cheers too much to be a truly effective "Face of Fear."
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Old 08-01-2016, 09:52 PM   #31
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Triple H is one of the most versatile characters and in-ring performers in the history of wrestling. The metamorphosis of his career since the mid 90s all the way through today shows an incredible amount of range both as a heel and babyface as well as an infinite portfolio of tremendous matches with a litany of different types of talents. He couldn't carry Scott Steiner or Kevin Nash in 2003, but the only people who could in that era were Shawn Michaels and Eddie Guerrero. Triple H has been the undisputed #1 heel in the business while also having been a bigger babyface than the alleged "top guy" at WrestleManias a decade apart (WM22, WM32). He was able to seamlessly transition from a singles guy to a stable guy to a tag team guy and back again. He can be an effective badass heeland a chickenshit heel in the same segment. He consistently has provided that "epic" and "big match feel" to his matches for 17 years. The bulk of his greatest work has come after tearing his quad that came in the middle of his physical peak.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:01 PM   #32
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Triple H has been the undisputed #1 heel in the business while also having been a bigger babyface than the alleged "top guy" at WrestleManias a decade apart (WM22, WM32).
That's because he didn't do his job as a heel.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:04 PM   #33
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I'd argue that he simply was the more over and respected wrestler due to being a bigger and true superstar. Was he a bad heel against Daniel Bryan? Mick Foley? Dean Ambrose? The Shield? Batista? Vince McMahon (1999)? Ric Flair? HBK? Undertaker? Should I keep mentioning his cornucopia of epic feuds?

At some point, it is the responsibility of the babyface to actually be over in order for the heel to get heat. When they cheer you getting bludgeoned with a sledgehammer, you are a very ineffective babyface.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:30 PM   #34
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Unpopular opinion? It's boring as shit.
The truth? It's boring as shit.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:32 PM   #35
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Owens/Jericho a great team
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:34 PM   #36
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Going against the grain and posting about RAW in here
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:40 PM   #37
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Jericho is boring as shit too. Oh look sickly tickly homosexual faggot just left me a red for for saying that.
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:59 AM   #38
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I prefer Biker Taker to Deadman Taker. There, I said it.
Only if he faces Surfer Sting.
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Old 08-02-2016, 01:15 AM   #39
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Quote:
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I'd argue that he simply was the more over and respected wrestler due to being a bigger and true superstar. Was he a bad heel against Daniel Bryan? Mick Foley? Dean Ambrose? The Shield? Batista? Vince McMahon (1999)? Ric Flair? HBK? Undertaker? Should I keep mentioning his cornucopia of epic feuds?

At some point, it is the responsibility of the babyface to actually be over in order for the heel to get heat. When they cheer you getting bludgeoned with a sledgehammer, you are a very ineffective babyface.
AJ Styles got more fans to boo him against John Cena. When HHH wrestled Roman Reigns, he portrayed and booked himself like a Stone Cold Steve Austin esque babyface, while constantly making Reigns look like a pussy.

Most of the guys you mentioned were fucking amazing babyfaces and fans would boo anyone against them. HHH is good and all, particularly mid-late 1999 til his quad injury, and certainly in spurts afterwards (but never to level of 1999-2001), but your hyperbole makes me think you want a job at WWE headquarters.

I give him a solid 4/10
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Old 08-02-2016, 01:22 AM   #40
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I came in to make bad Chris Benoit jokes. I composed myself and decided to delete my two paragraph post.
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