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Old 10-25-2016, 06:03 AM   #281
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Titus O'Neil fucking sucks.
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Old 10-25-2016, 06:04 AM   #282
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To be fair though, that was the most graceful he has ever looked.
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Old 10-25-2016, 06:05 AM   #283
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I wouldn't creatively advocate for this idea, but imagine if Goldust was in the position that James Ellsworth is currently in on SmackDown? It would be working so much better and you can actually buy Goldust in the role because he has been somewhat of a phenomenon since returning in 2013.
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:29 AM   #284
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Holy hell Raw was awful. First time I've watched in a while.
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:55 AM   #285
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Heyman phoning it in lately.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:02 AM   #286
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Heyman phoning it in lately.
well so has his client BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOCKKKKKKKKKKKK LESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSNEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:10 AM   #287
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Indeed, but Brock only got away with it because Heyman is the fucking goods. When Heyman quits putting in the effort Brock gets boring as a draw.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:24 AM   #288
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LOL

Quote:

- Bryan Alvarez noted on Wrestling Observer Radio that Vince McMahon "blew a gasket" backstage over the reaction from the fans and had Lesnar's music play to end the segment early. It was noted that the segment was scheduled to go longer, put Vince pulled the plug "right in the middle of it."


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Old 10-25-2016, 08:32 AM   #289
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I love reading about Angry Vince.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:35 AM   #290
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It was a dumb angle to run in Lesnars home state if they were desiring a different reaction. They should have just waited until the RAW where they will both be attending. It's not like we will be getting any real build into this match anyways.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:46 AM   #291
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I love reading about Angry Vince.
Hopefully Canada shits on Goldberg for #NeverForgetting what happened to Bret Hart. Then we'll get a really angry Vince.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:50 AM   #292
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Hopefully Canada shits on Goldberg for #NeverForgetting what happened to Bret Hart. Then we'll get a really angry Vince.
Quote:
- Bryan Alvarez noted on Wrestling Observer Radio that Vince McMahon was "absolutely fuckraged" over the reaction from the fans booing Goldberg in Toronto and chanting "We Want Bret". According to those in the gorilla position McMahon himself was planning on walking out mid-match to tell the crowd to lighten up.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:52 AM   #293
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I feel like HIAC will be an enjoyable enough PPV that I would have liked far more had I not bothered sitting through the meaningless build-up and instead just watched it as a standalone show.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:54 AM   #294
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I didn't watch this Raw, I've been told Jericho is the only highlight. I'll see how bored I am Monday daytime if I watch HIAC or not.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:56 AM   #295
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Goldberg was never going to be a smark's choice anyway. And the crowds are now completely smarky because the casuals have been completely chased off. I like Goldberg more than a lot of others, and I appreciate that he is a genuine star. He pumped up that crowd last week, but until you get to a real hub and tests how that star power does there, your crowds in between are going to try and be cool to get themselves over as the guys that won't cheer for the superhero.

I'm still curious to see how Goldberg does in Toronto. Recently the crowd there has seemed less "trend-setty" than it used to be, but I can envision them being like "Fuck booing this guy, remember how big he was in '98?" and cheering the fuck out of him and making other towns go "Hold on, maybe we should cheer this guy?" It's a shame that's likely to be the end of his tour.

I'd rather they saved the actual match between the two until the Royal Rumble. Have Brock squash someone like Curtis Axel at Survivor Series. Those two are friends. Brock keeps the beating going after the match and Goldberg makes his way out, fights his way through security and Spears the shit out of Brock and gives him a Jackhammer.

I don't know why they thought they could turn Brock heel in his hometown. It may be more beneficial to put Brock into "Beast you want to cheer" mode for this match, or at least have Heyman cut a promo about how Brock outgrew these people to become a Superstar of such epic proportions you need to pay Brock hundreds of thousands of dollars to return.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:59 AM   #296
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Quote:
I'm still curious to see how Goldberg does in Toronto. Recently the crowd there has seemed less "trend-setty" than it used to be, but I can envision them being like "Fuck booing this guy, remember how big he was in '98?" and cheering the fuck out of him and making other towns go "Hold on, maybe we should cheer this guy?" It's a shame that's likely to be the end of his tour.
Yeah, I'd go along with that if he didn't retire the patron saint of Canada. They won't forget that.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:01 AM   #297
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Goldberg's definitely getting booed in Toronto.

I anticipate reading that Vince McMahon was incandescent with rage.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:06 AM   #298
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Hell in a Cell thoughts:

* Sasha vs. Charlotte should headline the show. It's Sasha's hometown and it's the story with the build appropriate to HIAC. Sasha retaining is probably the right move here, since that belt has moved around so much. I've got absolutely no interest in what Sasha does after that though. Is it too early to move into something with Emmalina? Nia Jax seems obvious, but that will probably suck. This will be a nice pinnacle for these ladies though. Just don't fucking hug after the match.

* Kevin Owens will probably retain his belt via shenanigans, but I've always thought it a possibility that the WWE could switch it if they don't feel confident in Owens. Is this where we get Triple H? Chris Jericho will have to get involved here. Is it too obvious for Jericho to help out Owens? Maybe there's some sort of bullshit where Jericho "accidentally" costs Owens the belt and they tease a proper Triple Threat for Survivor Series? I'll read about this, but I have less interest in seeing this match than the ladies' cell.

* I actually completely support Reigns as US Champion. I think that is quite brilliant. I mean, he should be a main event heel, but for what they have to work with, I think it's a nice way to set up Reigns' microcosm. He should retain here. This will probably be the weakest cell.

* The New Day will probably keep the belts and keep going as champions until they break Demolition's record. Expect Big E to almost kill himself on a spear through the ropes attempt. Some miscommunication between Sheamus and Cesaro will leave things ambiguous so that they can re-challenge past The New Day's record because the WWE loves these teams that cannot get along.

* Do not care about Gallows & Anderson vs. Enzo & Cass in the slightest. I care more about Anderson's hot asian wife at this point. Gallows & Anderson are the opponent team that always loses, but Enzo & Cass are the team that always loses. Hmm. Enzo & Cass win because Vince probably sees at least something in Cass and gets a kick out of Enzo on the mic.

* TJ Perkins vs. Brian Kendrick will probably be the match of the night, but the WWE have done a good job of already Perkins just another guy. You might as well switch the belt and have Swann go after it, because nobody gives a fuck. They'll probably have Perkins retain though.

Man, my interest for this is so low. About the only thing I actually want to see is the women's cell, but I have no interest in where they go after that. I mean, I love Emma, but I think it's too early to rocket her straight to the belt.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:11 AM   #299
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Quote:
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Yeah, I'd go along with that if he didn't retire the patron saint of Canada. They won't forget that.
Yeah, but that was a freak accident. Hogan actually tried to sabotage Bret's career and got cheered like crazy at Mania X-8. There's a lot that goes into Canada as a crowd. They've turned on their own when they are bland as fuck (see: Edge circa 2004). I'm really intrigued to see.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:20 AM   #300
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Alright, I've gotta see video of this Heyman "Goldberg chant" debacle now.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:28 AM   #301
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LOL Heyman starting to look annoyed at the "Goldberg" chants after like one guy chants it but then gets drowned out by a "suplex city" chant. Amazing.

I was thinking "Heyman should just go on with the script and pretend they're chanting 'Goldberg' just for the fuck of it." ... And then he did.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:29 AM   #302
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Lol, I just watched the promo. Heyman is actually a genius. The crowd are just too fucking stupid to get what he's doing.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:29 AM   #303
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Owens should not retain. The best part of his reign has been Y2J. Owens is the third wheel in his feud with Rollins. You easily have the next 2 PPVs maim events with a triple threat (Rollins pins Y2J) and then Rollins vs Owens again with Y2J probably leaving again. Or have Owens go over Y2J and then challenge Rollins for the belt.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:31 AM   #304
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LOL Heyman starting to look annoyed at the "Goldberg" chants after like one guy chants it but then gets drowned out by a "suplex city" chant. Amazing.

I was thinking "Heyman should just go on with the script and pretend they're chanting 'Goldberg' just for the fuck of it." ... And then he did.


And now you've watched the only good bits of the show.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:31 AM   #305
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I got the impression that Heyman was acknowledging the "Suplex City" chants but was letting the audience know that they are no different to the Goldberg fans of '98 and that Brock doesn't need them.

I think he was trying to encourage "Goldberg" chants by saying that they were starting to piss Brock Lesnar off. So if you like Goldberg, you are going to chant "Goldberg," but if you like Brock, you are going to chant "Goldberg" because a pissed off Brock is the Brock you want to see.

Fuck that crowd for chanting "Suplex City" after Heyman just gave them a brilliant cue to psyche up The Beast.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:33 AM   #306
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Signaling out that Goldberg fan was great too, because it makes him "cool." He stands out. He's a renegade cheering for what he believes in a sea of smarks trying to be cool.

Fuck, Heyman is so good.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:42 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
Owens should not retain. The best part of his reign has been Y2J. Owens is the third wheel in his feud with Rollins. You easily have the next 2 PPVs maim events with a triple threat (Rollins pins Y2J) and then Rollins vs Owens again with Y2J probably leaving again. Or have Owens go over Y2J and then challenge Rollins for the belt.
Owens jumped the shark with me at Brooklyn last year when his Ladder Match underwhelmed. Once you work out that Owens can be upstaged, the mystique of him is shattered and he's just a stunt man in street clothes that isn't as good as the hype lent to him. That's not to say that he isn't good in the ring or on the mic, but I don't think he's a main eventer just yet. Now he's had the belt thrust onto him and I wonder if it's going to do more long-term harm than good.

Rollins winning the belt from him due to some Jericho shenanigans and then the Triple Threat is fine with me. But I think they'll keep to Owens until WrestleMania where he defends against Rollins and Finn Balor in a Triple Threat. When Michael Cole dropped that line at Clash of Champions about their only being three men who have held the World Title and the NXT Title, I thought "Fuck, that's what they're doing at Mania, isn't it?"

It would be put together well in the ring, but it seems mid-card as fuck to me.
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:01 AM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Owens jumped the shark with me at Brooklyn last year when his Ladder Match underwhelmed. Once you work out that Owens can be upstaged, the mystique of him is shattered and he's just a stunt man in street clothes that isn't as good as the hype lent to him. That's not to say that he isn't good in the ring or on the mic, but I don't think he's a main eventer just yet. Now he's had the belt thrust onto him and I wonder if it's going to do more long-term harm than good.

Rollins winning the belt from him due to some Jericho shenanigans and then the Triple Threat is fine with me. But I think they'll keep to Owens until WrestleMania where he defends against Rollins and Finn Balor in a Triple Threat. When Michael Cole dropped that line at Clash of Champions about their only being three men who have held the World Title and the NXT Title, I thought "Fuck, that's what they're doing at Mania, isn't it?"

It would be put together well in the ring, but it seems mid-card as fuck to me.
If Owens is still the champ after Suvival Series I will probably stop watching Raw completely. I just can't but the guy as the champ.
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:28 AM   #309
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Owens as champ and his interaction with Jericho is the only part of Raw I like.
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:35 AM   #310
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Yes but that is more Jericho than Owens as I stated a couple post ago. If Jericho is really taking a break again soon then Owens is a boring solo act.
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:37 AM   #311
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Owens is greatness.
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:43 AM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I got the impression that Heyman was acknowledging the "Suplex City" chants but was letting the audience know that they are no different to the Goldberg fans of '98 and that Brock doesn't need them.

I think he was trying to encourage "Goldberg" chants by saying that they were starting to piss Brock Lesnar off. So if you like Goldberg, you are going to chant "Goldberg," but if you like Brock, you are going to chant "Goldberg" because a pissed off Brock is the Brock you want to see.

Fuck that crowd for chanting "Suplex City" after Heyman just gave them a brilliant cue to psyche up The Beast.
WWE did a really bad job trying to get the crowd to boo Lesnar for the sake of it and not because he did anything worthy to be booed. Having the whole promo be based on a very certain reaction early on and no real backup plan meant it was going to derail hard even with Heyman's skills. Didn't help it was also in Lesnar's hometown which is the one place you wouldn't expect him to be booed a lot.
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:05 AM   #313
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Goldberg is going to get booed out of the building. Plus Lesnar lives in Canada and holds dual citizenship now I believe.
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:21 PM   #314
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They need to have Goldberg to a "meet and greet" on the day of the PPV, so fans are less likely to boo him.

You could also have a meet and greet scheduled for Lesnar and have him completely blow it off. Piss off the Canadians.
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:57 PM   #315
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I smell more than one match.
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:13 PM   #316
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Quote:
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Is the Heyman/Brock attempt to make people to chant for Goldberg in Brock's hometown the most tone deaf WWE creative decision in recent history?

I'm excluding Roman Reigns from this equation because that's automatically the better answer.
In retrospect, it could have been worse than Vince blowing a gasket and having Brock's music play to abort the segment that was failing to get Brock heat in front of his hometown crowd...

He could have called a different audible and had Roman Reigns com down to shove Heyman into a cake to get Brock over as a heel.
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:23 PM   #317
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Amazing how, in 2016, Chris Jericho has made "The List of Jericho" one of the most over parts of Raw.

That said, Jericho and Owens have incredible chemistry. I remember when Jericho first returned at the Rumble, that someone made a thread about how his constant returns and short stints that lead to nothing have made Jericho kinda boring and repetitive, yet, not only has his current run lasted nearly an entire year, but he is still evolving his character and putting on incredible matches. People will scoff at this, but as much as people consider guys like Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair etc some of the greatest, these guys mostly had the same character/gimmick for the later part of their careers. Jericho, well into a quarter century of wrestling and nearing 50, is still shaking things up and keeping himself relevant and fresh.

Guy truly is the G.O.A.T.
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:37 PM   #318
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Chris Jericho is without question an all-time great
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:44 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Heyman phoning it in lately.
Whole Lesnar / Goldberg angle seems incredibly forced... like they are obviously forcing Heyman to keep "crowbarring in" references to WWE 2k and transparently trying to get the crowd to chant Goldberg and stuff... seems bad...
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:55 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Amazing how, in 2016, Chris Jericho has made "The List of Jericho" one of the most over parts of Raw.

That said, Jericho and Owens have incredible chemistry. I remember when Jericho first returned at the Rumble, that someone made a thread about how his constant returns and short stints that lead to nothing have made Jericho kinda boring and repetitive, yet, not only has his current run lasted nearly an entire year, but he is still evolving his character and putting on incredible matches. People will scoff at this, but as much as people consider guys like Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair etc some of the greatest, these guys mostly had the same character/gimmick for the later part of their careers. Jericho, well into a quarter century of wrestling and nearing 50, is still shaking things up and keeping himself relevant and fresh.

Guy truly is the G.O.A.T.
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Chris Jericho is without question an all-time great
Currently, I only put him behind Angle.
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