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Old 01-05-2017, 07:32 AM   #1
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NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Discussion
Not sure how many New Japan fans there are on the board, but we're doing a podcast on WK11 this week, and there simply has to be a place to discuss the show on the forum (unless I'm missing it). For those who haven't seen, the final four matches are fantastic, and the main event of Kazuchika Okada Vs. Kenny Omega is just sensational.

So - if you've seen it, thoughts on the show, favourite match, standout performances, are you a regular New Japan viewer, and what would you like to see coming out of it?

As always, if you've seen the event and leave some thoughts, we'll read them on the show and you'll be credited accordingly...

EDIT - The show taking your thoughts and discussing WrestleKingdom 11 is now online, and aailable at the following link: https://squaredcirclegazette.podbean..._11_Review.mp3




Crazy Like A Fox - The Definitive Chronicle of Brian Pillman 20 Years Later
**Featuring interviews with members of the Pillman family, Dave Meltzer, Kim Wood, Raven, Jim Cornette, Mark Madden, Shane Douglas, Mark Coleman, Alex Marvez, Les Thatcher and many more close friends and colleagues**
Available on Amazon now:
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Last edited by hb2k; 01-08-2017 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:18 AM   #2
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I still need to watch the show, I've heard the main-event was incredible.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:20 AM   #3
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I already got what I wanted out of it

SPOILER: show

Minoru Suzuki is back
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:37 AM   #4
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I have gathered Dave Meltzer liked it
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:39 AM   #5
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How can we watch it respectfully? With honor as well.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:42 AM   #6
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:50 AM   #7
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Are all NJPW shows good/how is it different from WWE usually?
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:53 AM   #8
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Looks like the match will air in the U.S. on the tv channel AXS on January 13th


http://www.axs.tv/schedules/daily-schedules/?ads=8
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
I already got what I wanted out of it

SPOILER: show

Minoru Suzuki is back
That was New Years Dash, which is FREE on NJPW world.

That fucking main event though, jesus. Meltzer ended up giving it 6 stars. I think it is the best I've ever witnessed.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:01 AM   #10
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A bunch of Japs no selling everything and dropping each other on their heads 3/10
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
A bunch of Japs no selling everything and dropping each other on their heads 3/10
Japs do not no sell very often. The indie kids who mimic it fail to understand that as well.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:05 AM   #12
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NJPW catering to US audiences has hurt the product for me a bit but the product is still stellar.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #BROKEN Hasney View Post
That was New Years Dash, which is FREE on NJPW world.

That fucking main event though, jesus. Meltzer ended up giving it 6 stars. I think it is the best I've ever witnessed.
Main event was fantasmic.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Japs do not no sell very often. The indie kids who mimic it fail to understand that as well.
They kick out of each other's finishers 55 times during a match. How would you explain that? Not trying to be argumentative, just asking. "Fighting spirit" is not an acceptable answer lol
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:43 AM   #15
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Depends on your taste Gerts.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:44 AM   #16
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I'd rather watch an NJPW match than RAW.

But I'd rather watch American wrestling from the 80s-2000 over anything from NJPW and after 2001 pretty much
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:46 AM   #17
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Nothing to do with taste. Just responding to Destor's comment about them not no selling when the vast majority of these matches are Shibata hitting the PK 75 times during a match, or Okada hitting the Rainmaker 5000 times and not getting a pin. Isn't that no selling?
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:56 AM   #18
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I hate the idea of finishing moves, so I prefer it. No-one kicked out of a rainmaker in about 2 years though? No-ones kicked out of the One Winged Angel either.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:57 AM   #19
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the psycology is more akin to a fight, so their signature move is not a finishing move.
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
They kick out of each other's finishers 55 times during a match. How would you explain that? Not trying to be argumentative, just asking. "Fighting spirit" is not an acceptable answer lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
Nothing to do with taste. Just responding to Destor's comment about them not no selling when the vast majority of these matches are Shibata hitting the PK 75 times during a match, or Okada hitting the Rainmaker 5000 times and not getting a pin. Isn't that no selling?
Because finishers arent magic in Puro. They can go over with a lariat as easily as their "finisher."


For us finishers are this cartoony thing that once hit you die for 3 seconds. In japan it's like a boxer having a good right hook. He get a lot of knock outs with it but every right hook doesnt win the fight.
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:14 PM   #21
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Omega's V-Trigger Running Knee is the best damn thing in this business.
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:40 PM   #22
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:41 PM   #23
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From what I've gathered, the finishers aren't finishers but the guys best move. They do sometimes finish the match but not always.

It's no different than WWE having the Rock kick out of 2 or 3 stunners in a match or Lesnar hitting multiple F5s or Taker hitting multiple tombstones.

It's structured a different way so I don't really mind it. I don't think they no sell any less than WWE
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey 2.0 View Post
From what I've gathered, the finishers aren't finishers but the guys best move. They do sometimes finish the match but not always.

It's no different than WWE having the Rock kick out of 2 or 3 stunners in a match or Lesnar hitting multiple F5s or Taker hitting multiple tombstones.

It's structured a different way so I don't really mind it. I don't think they no sell any less than WWE
Oh its very different. One makes sense and the other absolutely doesnt.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:19 PM   #25
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Yeah to me Japanese matches seem like realistic struggles, whereas WWE matches look blatantly choreographed... just do things so they can get to the next spot.

I mean I don't watch like any NJPW but just from what I've seen.

Even the "great" wwe matches lose me because it all seems so ho hum.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:37 PM   #26
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I certainly have a preference but im not saying the western take is inherently bad its just is really laughable psychology
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:55 PM   #27
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there's definitely stuff I like, but for a product that's supposed to be about "telling stories" in the ring, a lot of those stories seem to revolve around overly choreographed moves.
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:58 PM   #28
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I stayed up late and bought New Japan World for this show. It was a great choice, totally fun, amazing show. Last four matches were insane and the main was just the perfect culmination of such an event.
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
there's definitely stuff I like, but for a product that's supposed to be about "telling stories" in the ring, a lot of those stories seem to revolve around overly choreographed moves.
So it's professional wrestling then.
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:12 PM   #30
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Haven't watched yet other than a few clips here and there. Will watch next week on AXS TV.
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:18 PM   #31
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Are all NJPW shows good/how is it different from WWE usually?
It's not politically correct PG bullshit like most things WWE. Wrestling is a lot more intense as well. Finishers are taken serious unlike in WWE where the Styles Clash is pretty much just another move now. For me it's just closer to the wrestling that I grew up watching as opposed to what WWE is today.
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
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So it's professional wrestling then.
It's hard to put it in words, but the transitions seem almost like they're waiting for something to happen, going from spot to spot versus telling a natural story.

Whereas what I see of Japan, each spot transitions naturally.
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:53 PM   #33
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Thought it was great overall.

Main event was amazing but so was the IC match between Naito and Tanahashi.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
It's hard to put it in words, but the transitions seem almost like they're waiting for something to happen, going from spot to spot versus telling a natural story.

Whereas what I see of Japan, each spot transitions naturally.
Puro comes off as a more of a struggle. There are structural reasons for this. I definitely understanding what youre saying.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:12 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
It's hard to put it in words, but the transitions seem almost like they're waiting for something to happen, going from spot to spot versus telling a natural story.

Whereas what I see of Japan, each spot transitions naturally.
A lot more picking guys up to do a move rather than standing and waiting for them to get up, little things.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
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Oh its very different. One makes sense and the other absolutely doesnt.
A good example is that suplex Owens hits off the second rope. How the fuck is that not enough to kill a guy but a poppa powerbomb is?

Or Cena's top rope leg drop.

The matches in NJPW just make morev sense. They also flow and build to their crescendo much better. And the action is much more back and forth.

Here's the other thing I really like; there's a seemingly set hierarchy in terms of talent. Ishii is good, but he's not as good as Shibata, but Shibata isn't as good as Okada (yet). Shibata also jobbed to Yugi Nagata, who's a legend and last I saw just a tick above Shibata at the time if their title exchange.

Same with Hirooki Goto. He's a stud, but not quite as good as the upper echelon guys.

Naito and Tanahashi are fucking great, but maybe not quite as great as Okada.

There's a clear pecking order. Outside of what, 6 guys, can you really say that for WWE?
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:18 PM   #37
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My favorite thing about puro vs the states is that here i sell a move so that audoence sees it. That way i can overcome my pain later for a triumph. There the psychology is the wrestler is trying not to show pain even though he is in pain. The default assumption is everything hurts. So the sells are the subtle registers. Just giving a flinch after a strike for example and being down long enough to be covered but npt even giving a one count. and then you can get a big pay off by simply selling to a knee and quickly recovering and pay off huge with a double down and even more so by just giving something away with a full blown sell. There are so many more facets to the work that its just much more rewarding as a worker and a fan.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:19 PM   #38
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I can't remember if it was you guys I have heard talking about the faces Kenny Omega pulls. They do the Terminator stuff with him, which was goofy, but in the way that you can imagine a wrestler having a goofy entrance for a big match. But then he comes out pulling these weird faces. I've only seen the entrance, but it still makes me think that Kenny Omega is a bit ridiculous.

Anyway, it's a bit off-topic, but feel free to answer it if you want a break from the New Japan stuff: Who in wrestling do you think pulls the best facial expressions? And who has the worst?

P.S. Fuck The Young Bucks. Does anyone else find them flippin' boring? Pun intended. There's no meat with the potatoes...or is it potatoes with the meat? It can't be the latter, because there is certainly nothing meaty about The Young Bucks--except the giant metaphorical dick they collectively have in the mouths of we, the modern internet fan. I'm not sure if they personally have done this, but I'm getting sick of independent wrestlers who do a whole bunch of meaningless, vapid shit an "evolution of the art form" when they have stripped their matches of all psychology. A cinematic equivalent (and I ususally hate these about wrestling, because they're more than a little different) is removing all plot, character and structure from your film. These guys aren't producing "art," they are producing your latest Michael Bay blockbuster where you can barely tell the fighting robots apart. The Young Bucks might be genuinely aware they are doing that to draw attention to themselves, but they are at least enablers of that vapid style.

Sorry if you have any fans of that style around The Big Oaken Table, but their attention span has probably lapsed by now and they stopped listening by the time I got to "pun intended." I quite like Trent Baretta though. I hope he's improving leaps and bounds over there.

Oh, and Happy fucking New Year.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:20 PM   #39
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Theyre the worst thing in boots today
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:30 PM   #40
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Not all New Japan is like that, of course. I haven't seen much of Tanahashi, but he strikes me as one of the best babyfaces ever. I've heard him described as New Japan's John Cena, and while there are certainly similarities, and being compared to John Cena isn't exactly a terrible thing these days, Tanahashi reminds me more of a Shawn Michaels or Eddie Guerrero. He's just so damn good.
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