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Old 09-28-2015, 12:37 AM   #161
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I agree on the stance that Brock just being on the show is an attraction. I just wish they would feed him someone new. Someone I'd actuall look forward to seeing him destroy. Like the Miz. That'd be fun.
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Old 09-28-2015, 05:57 AM   #162
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I'm fine with Lesnar vs. Big Show. I find the need to "build" to it non-existent though.
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:28 AM   #163
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I'm with Damien Ray.

I can't believe we still haven't had fucking Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Orton (other than their 2002 match).
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:46 AM   #164
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Yeah Brock vs Miz would be cool too.
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:54 AM   #165
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This thread has just been designated as a

SERIOUS BUSINESS ZONE

I don't wanna see any non SRS BSNS posts. Only post like CYnick from here on.
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Old 09-28-2015, 08:21 AM   #166
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I ain't got the time for that bollocks. Quick sentences or STFU!
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Old 09-29-2015, 10:05 AM   #167
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Didn't watch Raw but CyNick was stating earlier how Cesaro vs Show would continue and end up with Cesaro looking good in the end. I know it wouldn't have have ended last night but did it continue at all?
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Old 09-29-2015, 12:26 PM   #168
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Didn't watch Raw but CyNick was stating earlier how Cesaro vs Show would continue and end up with Cesaro looking good in the end. I know it wouldn't have have ended last night but did it continue at all?
They didn't do anything. My guess is to not muddy the waters. Need to focus on Show vs Lesnar.

My guess is Cesaro gets back in his face either right after MSG or after HIAC leading into Survivor Series. Then Cesaro goes after the IC or US titles.
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Old 09-29-2015, 02:03 PM   #169
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I think most fans already KNOW whoever they pit against Brock Lesnar on a Network special is going to job so why not put someone different in there to help elevate them and to see something new?

We have all seen Brock Lesnar versus the Big Show on more than one occasion. Yes, Lesnar can overhead suplex, german suplex, F-5 and superplex him from the top rope.

Could have been ANOTHER breakout match for Cesaro, even in a losing situation.

Hell, even have the Undertaker make a distraction appearance and Cesaro steals a victory. It won't hurt Lesnar at all and would only add more fuel to the Hell in the Cell match while giving another guy a huge rub.
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Old 09-29-2015, 02:10 PM   #170
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I don' like the idea of Lesnar losing do under card guys because WWE has shown zero ability to utilize guys after a big win.

I'd just rather see something other than another Big Show Lesnar match that's been basically admitted to happening countless times.

I know CyNick believes they'll move Cesaro back to Big Show once that match has passed but I'm not sure what indication has ever been given to lead one to believe Cesaro will ever be used more than as a solid hand to give guys a good ten to fifteen minutes.
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Old 09-29-2015, 02:25 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
I don' like the idea of Lesnar losing do under card guys because WWE has shown zero ability to utilize guys after a big win.

I'd just rather see something other than another Big Show Lesnar match that's been basically admitted to happening countless times.

I know CyNick believes they'll move Cesaro back to Big Show once that match has passed but I'm not sure what indication has ever been given to lead one to believe Cesaro will ever be used more than as a solid hand to give guys a good ten to fifteen minutes.
Yeah, this is true about WWE failing to capitalize on any big win momentum with undercard guys.

I agree there is not much indication on WWE's part. I think the Cesaro bandwagon mostly comes from the hopes of bored fans at this point and the ratings reflect this.
Last edited by Mr. JL; 09-29-2015 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 10-02-2015, 09:14 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. JL View Post
I think most fans already KNOW whoever they pit against Brock Lesnar on a Network special is going to job so why not put someone different in there to help elevate them and to see something new?

We have all seen Brock Lesnar versus the Big Show on more than one occasion. Yes, Lesnar can overhead suplex, german suplex, F-5 and superplex him from the top rope.

Could have been ANOTHER breakout match for Cesaro, even in a losing situation.

Hell, even have the Undertaker make a distraction appearance and Cesaro steals a victory. It won't hurt Lesnar at all and would only add more fuel to the Hell in the Cell match while giving another guy a huge rub.
But again, you're missing the key part in all this. There's absolutely nothing impressive about Lesnar beating Cesaro. Cesaro and Lesnar are not in the same league. If Lesnar beats Cesaro, it would be no different that Lesnar beating Kofi in Japan. That didnt exactly elevate Kofi. Big Show at the very least is a physical monster, and Lesnar doing big power moves to him are impressive. Plus they have a history that is unique. Heyman screwed Lesnar in the Garden and went with Show.

They obviously have a larger plan for Lesnar. He shouldnt be losing to guys at Cesaro's level at this stage. Maybe in 18 months if Cesaro has been slowly built up, he could be in a position to go over a guy like Lesnar on route to becoming a headliner.
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Old 10-02-2015, 09:18 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
I don' like the idea of Lesnar losing do under card guys because WWE has shown zero ability to utilize guys after a big win.

I'd just rather see something other than another Big Show Lesnar match that's been basically admitted to happening countless times.

I know CyNick believes they'll move Cesaro back to Big Show once that match has passed but I'm not sure what indication has ever been given to lead one to believe Cesaro will ever be used more than as a solid hand to give guys a good ten to fifteen minutes.
He might never make it beyond upper mid card, but I do believe there is a larger story between him and Show at play. I'm just going by things the commentators say, and the layout of the matches. In most of the matches, Cesaro tries some power move, he sells it, and it leads to the loss. I think the logic is to help put over when Lesnar does it to Show effectively. But then in the future, it can a deal where Cesaro got even stronger, or learned to focus on winning, and not just crazy power moves. Then he will move up the card. Where he goes from there, is up to him, and how he gets himself over.
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Old 10-02-2015, 09:23 PM   #174
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Well there was zero mention of Cesaro during Big Shows segment last week. And he's never made it out of the midcard, let alone upper. It's just wishful thinking at this point. I'd wager a hefty sum that after Lesnar walks through Big Show, that'll be the end of that and Cesaro will not be magically revisited.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:17 AM   #175
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We'll see

I mean it doesnt really matter either way. I'm laying out what I see happening, but its very possible they are not happy with Cesaro's lack of progression and want to keep him where he is.

It'll give us more to talk about in the coming weeks. Let's see what they come up with.
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Old 10-05-2015, 04:06 AM   #176
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We'll see

I mean it doesnt really matter either way.
Of course it doesn't matter either way because you'll sing the bookings praises regardless and when someone posts undeniable evidence like Daniel Bryan basically saying "Hey, CyNick... That thing you're saying about me... the guy who is speaking right now on the very subject you're trying to make a point about... You're completely wrong", you'll avoid it like the plague so you can still try to explain how the "monkeys on keyboards" nonsensical booking is top notch.
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Old 10-05-2015, 08:59 AM   #177
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Really think CyNick is trolling us now.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:04 PM   #178
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CyNick is top notch in his commitment to his argument. I don't necessarily think he's trolling, I think he's doing his best to see the good in the programming. To US though, the programming sucks. It is subjective though, he can think it's as great as he wants... but he's not going to change our minds and we aren't going to change his.

I think the main issue, is as we've all gotten older (I think even Matt Hardy made this point) is we get into these awesome HBO shows and AMC shows and we want a little more sophistication in the product... and WWE ain't about that. I think there was a time (and no, not the attitude era) when they were. I think it was many moons ago. But wrestling takes a LONGGGG time to move with the times. Soon, Vince will be done, HHH will take over and we'll see what the product looks like then. I actually think the more sophisticated kind of product can be seen in the days of the territories, when it was treated as more of a sport than a spectacle. I personally think they need to treat the product as more of a sport as opposed to trying to make it a variety (three) hour(s) and an action show. Not to say they need to stop with making it a spectacle, it NEEDS to be a spectacle and grandiose, but dial it down about a billion fucking notches. Make it feel more real. Just because everyone knows it's scripted doesn't mean everything needs to seem incredibly scripted. But this is just the broken tape recording. Good t.v. is good t.v. And that doesn't mean 45 minute matches of work rate, that means exciting and fresh title matches, tournaments, feuds and results of feuds that mean something... DARE I SAY continuity in EVERY SINGLE story line.... and hell even having guys intermingle and feud with other guys while they're still feuding with someone else. Guys used to feud for years on end, continuing their feud while other guys came into the mix, but also only wrestling once or twice in that vicinity. Kevin Owens and John Cena wrestled 3 times in like a month. What the actual fuck. make it 6 months, and have different co-mingling feuds go on where both guys win and talk shit on each other and attack each other. It's not complicated.


/
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:10 PM   #179
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Paraphrasing from something I read earlier, HBO isn't spending the majority of Game of Thrones telling us how great the Sopranos was.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:11 PM   #180
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Something telling HHH said on the NXT panel, when something gets over that he didn't think would, he still runs with it. That is in direct contrast to Vince who kills anything organically gets over without consent.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:34 PM   #181
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I mean the thing to keep in mind, probably in Vince's mind is he can do whatever the fuck he wants... and realistically he can, so there's no stopping him lol.
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:38 PM   #182
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Quote:
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Of course it doesn't matter either way because you'll sing the bookings praises regardless and when someone posts undeniable evidence like Daniel Bryan basically saying "Hey, CyNick... That thing you're saying about me... the guy who is speaking right now on the very subject you're trying to make a point about... You're completely wrong", you'll avoid it like the plague so you can still try to explain how the "monkeys on keyboards" nonsensical booking is top notch.
I'm happy to debate the Daniel Bryan thing with anyone. The reality is I to a fault, try to address any comments made to me. However, nobody on the side who thinks Daniel's push was never planned refuses to explain why he went over Cena clean if their were no long term plans for him. I guess Dave Meltzer never addressed that, so that side of the argument cant formulate a response.

Back to Cesaro. If it doesnt happen like I said it would, its likely because "plans change".
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:42 PM   #183
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CyNick is top notch in his commitment to his argument. I don't necessarily think he's trolling, I think he's doing his best to see the good in the programming. To US though, the programming sucks. It is subjective though, he can think it's as great as he wants... but he's not going to change our minds and we aren't going to change his.

I think the main issue, is as we've all gotten older (I think even Matt Hardy made this point) is we get into these awesome HBO shows and AMC shows and we want a little more sophistication in the product... and WWE ain't about that. I think there was a time (and no, not the attitude era) when they were. I think it was many moons ago. But wrestling takes a LONGGGG time to move with the times. Soon, Vince will be done, HHH will take over and we'll see what the product looks like then. I actually think the more sophisticated kind of product can be seen in the days of the territories, when it was treated as more of a sport than a spectacle. I personally think they need to treat the product as more of a sport as opposed to trying to make it a variety (three) hour(s) and an action show. Not to say they need to stop with making it a spectacle, it NEEDS to be a spectacle and grandiose, but dial it down about a billion fucking notches. Make it feel more real. Just because everyone knows it's scripted doesn't mean everything needs to seem incredibly scripted. But this is just the broken tape recording. Good t.v. is good t.v. And that doesn't mean 45 minute matches of work rate, that means exciting and fresh title matches, tournaments, feuds and results of feuds that mean something... DARE I SAY continuity in EVERY SINGLE story line.... and hell even having guys intermingle and feud with other guys while they're still feuding with someone else. Guys used to feud for years on end, continuing their feud while other guys came into the mix, but also only wrestling once or twice in that vicinity. Kevin Owens and John Cena wrestled 3 times in like a month. What the actual fuck. make it 6 months, and have different co-mingling feuds go on where both guys win and talk shit on each other and attack each other. It's not complicated.


/
Not all forms of entertainment should be the same though.

Why would you cater a show to a more adult audience? Modern sports entertainment for the most part (save the late 90s early 00's) was always geared towards the family, and specifically kids. Its a real life cartoon. What you have is a bunch of people in the 30s and 40s complaining that the show doesnt appeal to them. Its really strange.

When you promote to adults, you get one ticket, when you promote to kids, that kid needs to bring someone to the fights. There's benefits to keeping it that way.
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:08 PM   #184
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Basically we all need to stop watching.
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:28 PM   #185
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Basically we all need to stop watching.
Disagree entirely. They need to find new ways to draw in all demographics to the product, not whichever one they think will line their coffers the most.
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Old 10-05-2015, 01:42 PM   #186
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Disagree entirely. They need to find new ways to draw in all demographics to the product, not whichever one they think will line their coffers the most.


They are not budging on shit tho, that's the thing. I'd be content if they gave us back: the right to flip the bird, not take away crowd signs that are offensive, random backstage beatdowns, aggressive promos that are convincing, pee and poop jokes overload, skanks and meaningful stories from all feuds.


There's a built in storyline waiting to happen with WWE having the chance to go back to their uncensored roots and gain back a poopload of fans, but my time on waiting to see it LIVE on RAW is waning.
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Old 10-05-2015, 02:18 PM   #187
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Wait, wait, wait. Cesaro not getting this supposedly telegraphed push that CyNick thinks has been evident since his loss to Big Show, it's "plans change"n but Daniel Bryan getting shoehorned into the main event of Wrestlemania after being kept out of the main event for 3 months was part of the plan all along?
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Old 10-05-2015, 02:29 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
Wait, wait, wait. Cesaro not getting this supposedly telegraphed push that CyNick thinks has been evident since his loss to Big Show, it's "plans change"n but Daniel Bryan getting shoehorned into the main event of Wrestlemania after being kept out of the main event for 3 months was part of the plan all along?
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Old 10-05-2015, 02:41 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
Wait, wait, wait. Cesaro not getting this supposedly telegraphed push that CyNick thinks has been evident since his loss to Big Show, it's "plans change"n but Daniel Bryan getting shoehorned into the main event of Wrestlemania after being kept out of the main event for 3 months was part of the plan all along?
Haha, was just going to say this.
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Old 10-05-2015, 02:42 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
...However, nobody on the side who thinks Daniel's push was never planned refuses to explain why he went over Cena clean if their were no long term plans for him. I guess Dave Meltzer never addressed that, so that side of the argument cant formulate a response.
dirt Sheets said that Vince was unhappy with the SummerSlam buyrate when it came in so he decided to switch gears.
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Old 10-05-2015, 03:11 PM   #191
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dirt Sheets said that Vince was unhappy with the SummerSlam buyrate when it came in so he decided to switch gears.
Which is why you would build in a contingency plan.

Ive seen WWE depush people when they have no plans for them. I don't think that happened to Bryan. I think they wanted to test how the fans would react to him getting screwed, and they left the door open to get him back in the title picture.
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Old 10-05-2015, 03:13 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
Wait, wait, wait. Cesaro not getting this supposedly telegraphed push that CyNick thinks has been evident since his loss to Big Show, it's "plans change"n but Daniel Bryan getting shoehorned into the main event of Wrestlemania after being kept out of the main event for 3 months was part of the plan all along?
Doesn't get it.

Maybe my attempts at irony are too subtle.
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:09 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
Wait, wait, wait. Cesaro not getting this supposedly telegraphed push that CyNick thinks has been evident since his loss to Big Show, it's "plans change"n but Daniel Bryan getting shoehorned into the main event of Wrestlemania after being kept out of the main event for 3 months was part of the plan all along?
Let's be fair; he rubbished "dirtsheet" reporters who would use "plans changed" to cover when they weren't spot on with a story...then used it to cover when the story he's concocting doesn't come to fruition.
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:18 PM   #194
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Not all forms of entertainment should be the same though.

Why would you cater a show to a more adult audience? Modern sports entertainment for the most part (save the late 90s early 00's) was always geared towards the family, and specifically kids. Its a real life cartoon. What you have is a bunch of people in the 30s and 40s complaining that the show doesnt appeal to them. Its really strange.

When you promote to adults, you get one ticket, when you promote to kids, that kid needs to bring someone to the fights. There's benefits to keeping it that way.
Kids like good shows too. Don't be obtuse.
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:20 PM   #195
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For example, the Simpsons was a massive hit for all members of the family to enjoy throughout the 90s and put forth consistent quality. As per usual, your argument holds zero weight and has nothing to do with anything.
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:20 PM   #196
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Not to mention, losing out on the title 3 straight matches, getting pushed down the card, not being in the rumble, an losing again in February clearly left the door open for him to get back in the main event.
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:40 PM   #197
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Let's be fair; he rubbished "dirtsheet" reporters who would use "plans changed" to cover when they weren't spot on with a story...then used it to cover when the story he's concocting doesn't come to fruition.
This kid is going places
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:42 PM   #198
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Kids like good shows too. Don't be obtuse.
Yeah they do. Hence the continued dominance on cable on Mondays for low these years and years and years and years.
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:44 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
For example, the Simpsons was a massive hit for all members of the family to enjoy throughout the 90s and put forth consistent quality. As per usual, your argument holds zero weight and has nothing to do with anything.
But their ratings are off their peak, therefore they must be in terrible shape, no?
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:46 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
Not to mention, losing out on the title 3 straight matches, getting pushed down the card, not being in the rumble, an losing again in February clearly left the door open for him to get back in the main event.
You must have missed the storyline which was the WWE Universe kept voicing their feeling that Bryan should headline despite getting screwed by The Authority. It paid off with that deal in the ring with the fans. Don't know if you remember that. It was kinda critical to the whole journey.
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