12-20-2016, 04:25 PM | #81 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,136
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Nope, not my point. Just enjoyed the way you said there are no barriers except for this HUGE barrier.
You're great value for money I'll give you that. |
12-20-2016, 07:27 PM | #82 |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
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Resist. Resissssst!
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12-21-2016, 01:19 PM | #83 |
Make the IWC Great Again
Posts: 8,922
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You clearly never went to business school since you don't understand what a barrier to entry is. When I start CyNick University, I will let you take business 101 for free.
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12-21-2016, 04:34 PM | #84 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,136
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12-21-2016, 04:57 PM | #85 |
dirty irani
Posts: 11,955
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all that testicular fortitude has to be a positive thing right.
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12-21-2016, 04:59 PM | #86 |
dirty irani
Posts: 11,955
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oh and every time I think of Vince I think of that scene from 'Beyond The Mat' where he wanted to call Droz 'Puke'
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12-21-2016, 07:15 PM | #87 |
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I used to believe some of the McMyths, but I now find myself in the same camp as educated folk like Destor, #1-wwf-fan and BigCrippyZ. Vince has smashed people over the head with the assertion that he somehow saved wrestling, took it out of smoky halls and legitimized it. All you need to do is account for inflation and you can see how he has scorched the earth.
Creatively, wrestling is fucked. If you prove yourself to be a good wrestler with anything resembling an ounce of creativity, the WWE will eventually snap you up. It has been presented as the "dream" to work there, and the kids getting into the business today eat it up. They'll be sent out there with some caricature of their gimmick, do scripted interviews that don't build any heat, and then they'll have the same match every week. Look at the wonderful talent signed to the WWE to train in Orlando -- and look at how everyone comes out with the same style, the WWE style (now influenced more by independent hybrid style), the "right way" to wrestle. This is despite guys getting injured a lot more frequently -- and they are breaking their bodies for almost no one. The WWE product is gentrified. It's where pro-wrestling as art goes to die, and the artist goes to be force-fed until they become fat, lazy cats that don't mind lying in the sun for as long as Vince will pay them. And being there, traveling the world, seeing kids smile (because they've been conditioned to the cold), and having a reaffirming locker-room tells them all that they are doing the right thing, and that this is the "evolution" of wrestling. With the death of WCW, hope for wrestling died out. There was no one to make Vince McMahon sweat and go at someone else's pace. He had no reason to be good anymore. It might seem counterproductive to try and purposely be bad, but Vince has had no reason to churn out quality when he is the only legitimate product there is. The thing is, if a millionaire sank money into a wrestling promotion, it wouldn't be that unreasonable to imagine it competing effectively with Vince, provided the right minds were involved. All Vince has is the money. His television ratings are not unbeatable. He has no real stars. He's actually conditioned a lot of his wrestlers to be bad at their jobs (get over and draw money). Vince made the assertion that PPV is a dead industry -- a legitimately wrestling promotion could blow that right open. You watch how quickly Shawn Michaels came back and made a star if a billionaire went toe-to-toe with Vince. You watch how quickly Vince gets around film companies not wanting The Rock to wrestle if there is another wrestling show getting a higher rating share than him every week. You also watch how quickly talent jump if a viable alternative pops up too. You'd be seeing Nick Nemeth, Claudio Castagnoli and Bryan Danielson identifying with a different initialism very fast if there is something secure there. And for proof, look at NXT. It's generally regarded as being better than RAW or SmackDown every week. It's wrestling done as wrestling was done prior to Vince taking over. Matches booked with talent you want to look strong going over strong so that your fans accept them as a big deal and are willing to pay to see them compete. Now, it is kept around on the good graces of Vince's money, and it can spend the dough to get the top independent talent in the world to work for it, but that talent generally gets very over, very quickly. In fact, the most over acts on the WWE roster haven't been around for that long either (James Ellsworth, Chris Jericho's pen). It is still my jizzy-cock fantasy for The Rock to decide to compete with Vince. The Rock is the one dude that could make wrestling cool and sway instant smark opinion away from the Vince McMahon is God myth. He is charismatic enough to carry a show by doing a shit in the ring, and I have no doubt he could piece together a decent enough roster with relatively short notice who would be just dying to be seen as part of The Rock's crew. Why would Rock fight Vince? Because if he can make the promotion profitable, it's an extra source of income for him and something for his production company to attach itself to. But it would also be good for the wrestling business. It would give guys like Nick Nemeth and Claudio Castagnoli places to work and be the stars that Rock got the chance to be. It's unlikely that either will be as great as The Rock -- especially in a crossover sense -- but they could be mainstream wrestling figures as long as it's in a place where that isn't against the Vince McMahon narrative. I don't think it will happen, but if it did, wrestling would be in the spotlight again. Vince has taken it out of the spotlight. |
12-21-2016, 07:31 PM | #88 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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meltzer sheep,,,,,
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12-21-2016, 07:31 PM | #89 |
Posts: 60,919
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That's why they call you Dastardly.
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12-21-2016, 07:33 PM | #90 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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i do what i can
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12-21-2016, 07:42 PM | #91 |
Posts: 10,642
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I miss gorgeous Dale
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12-21-2016, 07:45 PM | #92 | |
Make the IWC Great Again
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12-21-2016, 07:50 PM | #93 | |
Make the IWC Great Again
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12-21-2016, 07:57 PM | #94 | |
Make the IWC Great Again
Posts: 8,922
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Meanwhile in the main roster they continue to play to large crowds every week, are one of the most watched shows every week on cable, and draw more revenues year after year. You're blind hatred of Vince can't let you see the truth, which is guys methods are very successful. The multi millionaires he's created would echo that statement. Meanwhile Matt Hardy is taking bumps in his back yard for 50 people. |
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12-21-2016, 08:13 PM | #95 |
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This is the argument people use when they want to keep their head in the sand. Everything's great, everything's great. Yeah, until it's not. You don't get an immediate drop-off. People use the 100k line to justify the creative direction coming out of the show. That's putting the cart before the horse.
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12-21-2016, 08:16 PM | #96 |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
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He's laying out the fallacies more blatantly now. He's tempting you all. RESISSSSSST!!!
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12-21-2016, 08:16 PM | #97 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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shit's about to get lit
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12-21-2016, 08:29 PM | #98 |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
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No! We're gonna have a nice conversation between everyone else and pretend the troll doesn't exist. Nothing is getting lit. I believe in TPWW.
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12-21-2016, 08:30 PM | #99 |
Former TPWW Royalty
Posts: 66,588
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100k+ crowd for Mania got debunked pretty quickly. Real number is around 94k but being assumed the paid number is actually somewhere between 74k-86k and the rest being given away to pad the numbers for the new record.
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12-21-2016, 08:31 PM | #100 |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
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Oh shit. Facts. This is bad...
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12-21-2016, 08:53 PM | #101 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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i only want to incite CyNick to see wwffan go ballistic
<3 you though also 94,000 with 86 thousand paid is not too shabby lol |
12-21-2016, 09:32 PM | #102 | |
Celestia's Left Hand
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12-21-2016, 09:37 PM | #103 |
Celestia's Left Hand
Posts: 17,359
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Y'know Cynick There was A time I allowed myself to believe you weren't trolling mostly due to the interesting if deeply flawed kool-aid drinking logic but now....oh man.....
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12-22-2016, 02:00 AM | #104 | |
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Real Entertainment Business: where 500,000+ units actually sold = Gold and 1,000,000+ = Platinum No wonder Vince almost went broke twice, he can't even accurately count the # of people who come to his events. |
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12-22-2016, 03:17 AM | #105 |
Best Poster
Posts: 56,903
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Vince has said himself that the attendance isn't real
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12-22-2016, 08:51 AM | #106 | |
Make the IWC Great Again
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Quote:
Meanwhile the company continues to increase Network subs, continues to increase TV rights fees, Mania is on a decade long streak of doing 60k plus seat venues. All of which suggest the real fans, not the people who complain on TPWW (all ten of you guys), are very happy with the product. |
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12-22-2016, 08:54 AM | #107 | |
Make the IWC Great Again
Posts: 8,922
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How many people were at WM3? The supposed WWE made up number of 93k or the dirt sheet made up number of 78k? |
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12-22-2016, 08:59 AM | #108 |
Make the IWC Great Again
Posts: 8,922
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Well that's a while other story. Cruisers are never going to draw. At least Vince is trying to get them over by giving them their own show to get people to ignore that CWs look like midgets next to real stars like Roman Reigns. If the cruisers can't get over, and have people leaving the building, that's as much on them as it is Vince. And I would blame the talent more because cruisers should be able to get over with their work. If Vince tried to book them like he books his other shows, the same group of complainers would be saying "just let them work matches and they will get over". Wrong.
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12-22-2016, 09:00 AM | #109 | |
Make the IWC Great Again
Posts: 8,922
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12-22-2016, 09:13 AM | #110 |
Make the IWC Great Again
Posts: 8,922
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Which attendance? What they announce on TV? True, they're an entertainment company doing a show. But whatever they say in a corporate press release is true. I don't recall what number they put in there, but that's the real number. The geeks try to play detective and claim that WWE is lying.
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12-22-2016, 09:39 AM | #111 |
boop/bop/beep
Posts: 38,428
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it is well known that people juice up attendance. It's what they do in the entertainment business, there's nothing wrong with it. Also, 84,000 people is a fuckton.
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12-22-2016, 09:47 AM | #112 |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
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12-22-2016, 10:03 AM | #113 |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
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Though I have been considering coming out of TPWW REAL FIGHT retirement...
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12-22-2016, 10:22 AM | #114 | |
Best Poster
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12-22-2016, 11:58 AM | #115 |
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12-22-2016, 12:07 PM | #116 | |
Former TPWW Royalty
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12-22-2016, 12:09 PM | #117 |
Posts: 3,033
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Shhh... don't use facts. They confuse him in part, because he thinks they're not legit because they don't come straight from Vince, HHH, etc. You might send him into a life altering spiral of denial...
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12-22-2016, 12:15 PM | #118 |
I am the cheese
Posts: 51,037
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Guys, Vince knows all. He is always right. Who ever has the most money is the most right. Stop.
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12-22-2016, 12:30 PM | #119 | |
Celestia's Left Hand
Posts: 17,359
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I think JR pointed out what a big part of the problem is in a triple threat between guys who should be high flyers you have a ridiclous amount of rest holds. Its one thing if thats your hat like Jack Gallagher but otherwise the whole thing should be a lot more frantic than it usually is. I'd also argue Vince isn't the guy who should be overseeing this I honestly don't think he gets it when it comes to Cruiserweights. He really should go back and look at WCW in that regard. |
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12-22-2016, 02:04 PM | #120 |
Best Poster
Posts: 56,903
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The problem with the Cruiserweight division is the "Heavyweight Division" or whatever you want to call it, more or less wrestle the same style as the cruiserweights. In WCW there was a vast difference between the two. Wrestling has evolved where you have heavyweights doing Cruiserweight moves. There's nothing special to them. You can't have them go balls to the wall night in and night out because you'll kill them after a couple months.
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