06-02-2015, 12:25 AM | #1 | ||
King of Suplexes/Oxy
Posts: 18,466
|
The John Cena Dilemma
This seemed to get some attention in the Raw thread, and I think it probably merits it's own thread. During the Owens/Cena segment these sort of comments popped up:
Quote:
Quote:
The Rusev debacle is fresh in people's mind, sure, but Rusev never beat Cena clean or even close to it, let alone in his first match in WWE. CM Punk never beat Cena clean. The Rock, Brock Lesnar, and Daniel Bryan are probably the only people recently to do so, and their careers worked out pretty okay. So, let's talk about it. What would it take for you to stop complaining about Cena? What's missing? What do you actually want? |
||
06-02-2015, 12:27 AM | #2 |
Quark is Less Impressed.
Posts: 38,371
|
DilEMMA.
|
06-02-2015, 12:30 AM | #3 |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
|
lol It's mostly just owenbrown with the silly Cena hate lately. And Owens beating Cena 100 times in a row won't stop him from ignoring those and commenting "Ugh. Here we go. LOLCENAWINS like always" before the 101st match. It's his gimmick or something.
|
06-02-2015, 12:39 AM | #4 |
Posts: 52,478
|
Death, Taxes and Lol Cena wins
Made into a wrestling shirt with Taker, IRS and Cena winning |
06-02-2015, 12:40 AM | #5 |
Quality Meme Producer
Posts: 19,367
|
Cena is miles away from the WWE Heavyweight title and putting over KO, equipped with a fresh storyline of a dad wanting to kick his son's favorite wrestler's ass. Also, someone is calling Cena out for his aura so we're getting somewhere in that aspect.
KO is Doomsday(Dadbodsday) and Cena is Superman, his death is imminent. |
06-02-2015, 12:41 AM | #6 |
I'm a loner, Dottie...
Posts: 3,069
|
I'm not on the whole "Cena's gonna ruin Owens" bandwagon that you're talking about but I am a little worried. Rusev and Wyatt both floundered into nothing after Cena beat them. Sure Owens beat Cena clean but he's also an unestablished heel.
Bryan was fine because a) he was the most over face in the company at the time, and b) he won that feud. Punk was fine because he also came out on top during their initial feud. Rock and Lesnar were fine because they were already mega stars before their respective feuds. That said I'm gonna be hopeful that they don't screw this up. |
06-02-2015, 01:10 AM | #8 |
Loque Ja
Posts: 87,868
|
Rusev didn't flounder into nothing, for pete's sake.... he still looked strong and was still treated as a big deal. Now he is injured, though. Would have been just fine if he wasn't, though.
|
06-02-2015, 01:11 AM | #9 | |
Now. Here. Man.
Posts: 8,370
|
Quote:
|
|
06-02-2015, 01:23 AM | #10 |
I'm a loner, Dottie...
Posts: 3,069
|
Honestly I'd say this comparison is more accurate to Cena vs Lesnar. Owens is more like Luthor with his power suit since he might be able to beat Superman but it'll take pretty much everything he has to do so... and there's a heavy possibility he'll loose next time anyway. #ComicNerdsInAWrestlingForum
|
06-02-2015, 08:56 AM | #11 |
wekasauce
Posts: 106,736
|
Cena is way better than most people realize. I don't understand the naysayers at this point either
I had no intention of watching any of Elimination Chamber and tuned in for a few matches... the Cena/Owens match kept my attention the entire time. And the US Open (tee hee) Challenge has been great. Cena isn't even close to the title scene right now and putting guys in meaningful feuds. It's great. |
06-02-2015, 09:03 AM | #12 | |
Quality Meme Producer
Posts: 19,367
|
Quote:
true, but I didn't throw in the outcome of Cena's demise in the forms of EradiCena, Steelcena, Cyborg Supercena and Cenaboy |
|
06-02-2015, 09:12 AM | #13 |
( ._.)
Posts: 13,896
|
|
06-02-2015, 09:15 AM | #14 |
wekasauce
Posts: 106,736
|
Why? Did Austin ever lose any feuds? Where's all the Austin hate?
|
06-02-2015, 09:24 AM | #15 |
( ._.)
Posts: 13,896
|
Austins run was about 2 years, Cenas run has been about 13.
|
06-02-2015, 09:28 AM | #16 |
wekasauce
Posts: 106,736
|
So let's punish the company's flagship wrestler because he has tremendous durability and longevity. Cool
|
06-02-2015, 09:39 AM | #17 | |
You can't teach that
Posts: 19,337
|
Quote:
Its either STOP HATING CENA or CENAS A PIECE OF SHIT. This is perfectly fair. This isnt Cenas "fault" but no one is blaming him for being the booker. But yea, how can you consider it "making stars" or not "burying" a guy when he is just losing over an over in a short period. Even Hogan never beat a heel 3 Pay Per Views in a row. Cena should get his win, and move on. YAY HE OVERCOMES THE ODDS! FACES ARE GOOD! YAY CENA. No one minds that. But when they stretch these feuds across 4-5 pay per views, and Cena comes out on top it just de-elevates his foil. Same thing with Wyatt. Peoples point with Owens is fair too. Yeah, Owens went over. The next night Cena shows up with the "you aint done nothing Jack" and we get a rematch in two weeks. Way too quick. So either Owens wins again, which wont happen, or Cena gets his win back in two weeks and they will either forget it and move on or do the same match 3 more times. |
|
06-02-2015, 09:40 AM | #18 |
You can't teach that
Posts: 19,337
|
|
06-02-2015, 09:43 AM | #19 |
( ._.)
Posts: 13,896
|
|
06-02-2015, 09:44 AM | #20 |
King of Suplexes/Oxy
Posts: 18,466
|
And Daniel Bryan, albeit that was short. Arguably with Punk. Most definitely with Orton/Authority. Sure, his team may have won at Survivor Series but he didn't, and he never got his belts back.
It didn't happen for a really long stretch, sure, but it's happening a lot more in the past few years. It's a problem, like you and Tommy Gunn said, when he's winning feuds by beating somebody 6 times in a month and a half. |
06-02-2015, 09:45 AM | #21 |
( ._.)
Posts: 13,896
|
I have a feeling Cena might lose against Owens at MITB (God willing), or win by DQ (meh).
|
06-02-2015, 09:48 AM | #22 | |
( ._.)
Posts: 13,896
|
Quote:
|
|
06-02-2015, 10:04 AM | #23 |
You can't teach that
Posts: 19,337
|
One thing Tommy gunn brings up that is even a bigger issue is the RUSH to rematch. They are making the next match the same night, or next night.
Heaven forbid they take Rusev off TV for a week or two and then have him come back and attack Cena. Or have some kind of Angle to further the story. Instead the Story is Rusev hates America - Fights Cena - Wins - Rematch - Lose - Rematch - Lose - Rematch - Lose. There no stories, its just "IN 4 WEEKS THEY ARE GOING HEAD TO HEAD AGAIN". |
06-02-2015, 10:09 AM | #24 |
You can't teach that
Posts: 19,337
|
For anyone trying to defend Cena with Stone Cold, go back to 1998-1999.
Never was pushed over "Credible" heels for months on end. Once again, not Cenas fault, but poor booking. And not entertaining. And thats why people are tired and bored of cena. |
06-02-2015, 10:15 AM | #25 |
It's all Bullshit
Posts: 6,911
|
|
06-02-2015, 10:24 AM | #26 |
FIT Challenge Slag People
Posts: 13,816
|
|
06-02-2015, 10:30 AM | #27 |
You can't teach that
Posts: 19,337
|
He went from RIDING A TANK AT WRESTLEMANIA to being Cuckolded by Dolph Ziggler.
|
06-02-2015, 10:53 AM | #28 |
Now. Here. Man.
Posts: 8,370
|
Austin lost to Triple H in their 2000 feud, lost to the Rock in their Mania XIX feud, and never got his 'big win' over Bret Hart in the feud that got him over in the first place so he kinda lost that one, too. He also lost single matches with far greater regularity. So, yeah.
|
06-02-2015, 02:45 PM | #29 |
Ninja Mod, Esquire
Posts: 12,676
|
My only problem with Cena is he makes ZERO sense.
Half of his promo last night was awesome. The idea that KO secretly follows the same mantra of Cena (never give up) was a nice idea. Basically Kevin Owens IS John Cena, except KO has had 15 years of bitterness and clawing, where Cena has been supported by a giant company. That is awesome. What I HATED was Cena going on about how KO needs to man up and the implication that he isn't a man for some reason? WTF? KO won Sunday cleanly, but somehow "isn't a man" because he doesn't like the fact that Cena is so over-supported that KO's own son idolizes him over his dad... Cena lost, he doesn't really get to insult KO's masculinity. |
06-02-2015, 02:46 PM | #30 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,447
|
Because he is acting like a kid via being childish.
|
06-02-2015, 03:07 PM | #31 |
You can't teach that
Posts: 19,337
|
hes being a heel.
When you havea chickenshit heel you can call him a coward. its part of the schtick. When you have a cocky heel you can call him disrespectful and overconfident. You can have selfish heels, scary heels, bad ass heels. Cena comes at every heel with "I DONT TAKE YOU SERIOUS YOU HAVE BITCH TITS" until he loses then its "IM A MAN AND ILL WHOOP YO ASS YOU PANSY YOU MIGHT HAVE WON BUT PEOPLE WONT RESPECT YOU". Samething with every heel. Dude has one speed. And he does the same shit hes getting on Owens for. |
06-02-2015, 03:12 PM | #32 |
Soundly Defeated Wadding
Posts: 40,590
|
"Never Give Up" is unforgivable and I can't back it. It is unorginal, it is pandering, and it is infuriating to think that WWE thinks it is a legitimate way to market. John Cena uses cancer patients as a way to try to get over and it is ridiculously unfair and somewhat underhanded on WWE's part. I'm not talking about doing the actual Make A Wish work, but bringing it up in promos as a way to get cheers is somewhat scummy. So if I don't cheer for Cena, I hate cancer patients? It's absurd.
As a guy, I really like him. As a character, I have to hate him. WWE will never take risks with him, it's always the same message just said in a different way, they drained out everything that got him over in the first place, and there is no real point to him winning matches anymore. I like him as a person but I absolutely cannot support the character in anyway until they make necessary changes. |
06-02-2015, 04:03 PM | #34 | |
wekasauce
Posts: 106,736
|
Quote:
|
|
06-02-2015, 04:13 PM | #35 |
Loque Ja
Posts: 87,868
|
John Cena is fantastic right now and anyone who disagrees with me can make like a tree and get outta here.
This is exactly what people have been clamoring for him to do for years. Take a seat back from the main event and work with the young up and comers and help establish the future. |
06-02-2015, 04:23 PM | #36 |
MVP Mark
Posts: 16,447
|
Love John Cena right now. Hated how he went over Rusev 4 times in a row but that is not his fault. Hate how people still chant "Cena Sucks" when he in fact rules.
|
06-02-2015, 04:37 PM | #37 | |
Soundly Defeated Wadding
Posts: 40,590
|
Quote:
|
|
06-02-2015, 04:42 PM | #38 |
Former TPWW Royalty
Posts: 66,588
|
My biggest issue has been more about his stale booking and whenever his promos end up on the preachy or rambling type. Stale booking in the sense that the WWE keeps recycling the same main storyline or reasons and his preachy/rambling promos tend to make little sense or fit better if he was a bad guy.
He doesn't need to suddenly lose or flip flop a lot in momentum like almost the whole roster but he does need a lot more change after all these years with the same stale character. To his credit, he has been doing some amazing stuff with the Open Challenge and usually is at his best whenever he's motivated either because of his opponent or wants to prove something. |
06-02-2015, 04:45 PM | #39 | |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
|
Quote:
|
|
06-02-2015, 04:52 PM | #40 |
Resident drug enabler
Posts: 45,473
|
On top of that, the top face SHOULD win a lot. People seem to like to complain that there isn't enough parity at the top of the card. Parity isn't a good thing. It leads to situations like we have now where everyone's treated and equal and no one gets over because everyone's expected to lose constantly.
|