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Old 10-16-2008, 11:39 PM   #41
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I play the spoons, is that music? (i don't actually play the spoons but it could be considered music)
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:51 AM   #42
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I would like to point out, that as much as I don't care for rap, I still consider it music, hell I actually like older rap, for example pretty much all the songs on GTA: SA, which has rap from around 1992 I like, its just the tidal wave of all the new stuff that sounds the same to me that i don't like.
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:16 AM   #43
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I dont even think rap is more rhythmically complex than alot of rock/metal groups out there.

just saying
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:18 AM   #44
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:33 AM   #45
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Rap more complex than this??? nahhh
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:18 AM   #46
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I didn't say it was more complex than all rock or pop. I was making broad generalisations.

Besides, the Volta are experimental/progressive before they're "rock". Prog and experimental bands are supposed to be complex, out-there shit.
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:21 AM   #47
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And for every Volta, Don Caballero, Battles, Minus the Bear, Sufjan Stevens, Architecture in Helsinki, Broken Social Scene, +/-, or other musically (melodically, rhythmically and using diverse time signatures) complex rock/pop/folk/what have you bands, there are like fifteen Nickelbacks a pop.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:45 AM   #48
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different genres bring different emphasis'. rock is all about your excellent distorted guitars. rap is about beat, atmosphere and wordplay. there are still excellent hooks in a lot of rap songs, like dre's G thang.

you have to understand electronic music in almost all shapes and forms is more about tonality than melody. if there's a bassline in a song you really like, someone has probably sat in a room for a very fucking long time making it sound like it does.

anyone who takes their music seriously isn't going to sit there using preset sounds. writing electronic music is easily 10x harder than writing a song in a band. and anyone who calls it pushing buttons obviously hasn't ever tried. i've knocked out 3 songs in about 2 hours in a band setting, meanwhile every electronic song i ever put together took between 1-3 months, finding samples and tweaking sounds etc etc.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:47 AM   #49
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ps. rap has pretty much sucked balls ever since sampling meant you get bent over a barrel on the royalties front. late 80s early 90s is amazing.
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Old 10-17-2008, 11:46 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mask View Post
different genres bring different emphasis'. rock is all about your excellent distorted guitars. rap is about beat, atmosphere and wordplay. there are still excellent hooks in a lot of rap songs, like dre's G thang.

you have to understand electronic music in almost all shapes and forms is more about tonality than melody. if there's a bassline in a song you really like, someone has probably sat in a room for a very fucking long time making it sound like it does.

anyone who takes their music seriously isn't going to sit there using preset sounds. writing electronic music is easily 10x harder than writing a song in a band. and anyone who calls it pushing buttons obviously hasn't ever tried. i've knocked out 3 songs in about 2 hours in a band setting, meanwhile every electronic song i ever put together took between 1-3 months, finding samples and tweaking sounds etc etc.

You should sample Incubus' "Aqueous Transmission." The notes from the stringed instrument is hard panned to right (or left) and you can individually cut them out, and then do weird shit to them on a sampler. Good times.
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:03 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninti the Mad View Post
And why do you even try and dispute or make the assumption that those bands you listed are more music that slipknot, pom, or nickleback?

Thats kinda negating your argument.
IMHO they are 100 times more talented but I was being sarcastic anyway..

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mask View Post
ps. rap has pretty much sucked balls ever since sampling meant you get bent over a barrel on the royalties front. late 80s early 90s is amazing.
I hate when people say this.. Mos Def, Talib, Blackalicious, Jurassic 5, The Roots, Strange Famous, Atmosphere, Brother Ali, etc etc etc weren't around back then so that makes this line of thinking null and void..

What's funny to me, I got into it with a guy on an MMA board when I posted about One Day as a Lion.. After saying it was good, out of no where he starts in with how rap sucks and it takes no talent etc.. He was kinda embarassed when I told him that all those songs he like was nothing more than a drum set and a synth..

Same could be said about an album like NIN's The Downward Spiral.. Like 90% of it was electronic and I would reckon that there are some people out there who love NIN but hate "rap"..

It's just a close minded way of looking at things..
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:37 PM   #52
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Sage Francis-"Mullet"



There used to be a better video online but I can't find it everywhere.. It was better cause he didn't have a DJ so he did all the sound effects himself and you could hear the lyrics better..
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:38 PM   #53
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Also, Sage Francis has gotten mad fat since he's been making money on the underground..
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:30 PM   #54
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to be fair about the "late 80s early 90s" being better than today's rap line of thinking, rap sounds much different now than it did then. so it isn't completely out of bounds to say that you don't like today's rap compared to that. it's a different ballgame, so to speak.
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:36 PM   #55
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What does it even mean when to say something is "more music" or less music" than something else? Either it's music or it isn't.
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:36 PM   #56
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Not really..

Groups like J5 still use oldskool breakbeats and have a general "oldskool" sound..
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:38 PM   #57
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:41 PM   #58
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:56 PM   #59
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I think that people who don't like rap like to try to discredit the genre by saying that its not music, takes no skill etc. I don't think it needs any pointing out that you're just being an ignorant douche.
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:01 PM   #60
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:58 PM   #61
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Quality Control is one of my favorite albums ever.



And to add a new video:
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:18 PM   #62
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This Ronald Jenkees character creates musical sex. Fucking wow.
Just checked out more of his stuff...wow....awesome stuff
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:19 PM   #63
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I love that black Star song..

More Mos Def
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Old 10-17-2008, 07:40 PM   #64
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I have still posted the best music in this thread.
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Old 10-17-2008, 07:46 PM   #65
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It's not music cause it's just pushing buttons..
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Old 10-17-2008, 07:47 PM   #66
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Old 10-17-2008, 07:49 PM   #67
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Way to back up claims with such profound information.. It is an honor to post and debate with someone with such intelligence, St. Jimmy..
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Old 10-17-2008, 07:55 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
Way to back up claims with such profound information.. It is an honor to post and debate with someone with such intelligence, St. Jimmy..
There's really no debate... It's not like it's a topic of win or lose, it's opinon. You think it's music, I think it's noise.
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:00 PM   #69
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You said it's not music as I said it was.. I (and others) have posted reasons it should be considered music, while you, pretty much the only person on the other side of the conversation, have not.. I pretty much said you wouldn't back up your statements right after you originally posted.. I can tell the future..
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:17 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by St. Jimmy View Post
There's really no debate... It's not like it's a topic of win or lose, it's opinon. You think it's music, I think it's noise.
So because you don't like it, its not music? Rightttt. I think the issue that really isn't a debate is the fact you're a moron.

Call me curious, but what kind of music do you listen to?
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:30 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by St. Jimmy View Post
There's really no debate... It's not like it's a topic of win or lose, it's opinon. You think it's music, I think it's noise.
Sorry Jimmy, but... it is a topic of win or lose. You mightn't think it is very good music, but it is music.

Beat + Rhythm + (Melody) = Music.

Contrary to popular opinion, "melody" is not synonymous with "music". It is not the overarching, all-important factor. All you need is a beat - a pulse - to have the fundamental of music. Rhythm extends upon the beat, utilising different note spans within it to create a purely percussionistic form of music. Please do not try and tell me drummers and other percussionists do not count as "musicians". Yet here we have these instrumentalists creating only a beat and a rhythm, and satisfying the requirement of having made "music".

So, the addition of melody later on, much like the addition of chocolate chips to a batch of muffins, while definitely an amazing and important part of the overall picture, is not crucial - at the end of the day, chocolate chips or not, you've still got muffins. You mightn't think they're very good muffins, but they're still muffins.

QED.
Last edited by mitchables; 10-18-2008 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:12 PM   #72
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Mitch, just when I think I couldn't possibly love you more, you go and post an MC Lars song. Brilliant
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:16 PM   #73
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Quote:



Main Entry:
mu·sic
Pronunciation:
\ˈmyü-zik\
Function:
noun
Usage:
often attributive
Etymology:
Middle English musik, from Anglo-French musike, from Latin musica, from Greek mousikē any art presided over by the Muses, especially music, from feminine of mousikos of the Muses, from Mousa Muse
Date:
13th century 1 a: the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b: vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony2 a: an agreeable sound : euphony music to my ears> b: musical quality music of verse>3: a musical accompaniment musical composition set down on paper5: a distinctive type or category of music music for everybody — Eric Salzman>
By the litteral definition of music, if rap doesn't have melody then it's not music. (Now I know nothing of music so I can neither confirm nor deny that it does or does not have melody. But IF it doesn't then it's not music.)


But by the litteral definition I guess drums by them selves aren't music...which I wouldn't really argue against as that would just be noise to me.

But again, I know nothing about music, does rap have melody?
Last edited by Destor; 10-17-2008 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:17 PM   #74
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Quote:
Main Entry:
mel·o·dy
Pronunciation:
\ˈme-lə-dē\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural mel·o·dies
Etymology:
Middle English melodie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin melodia, from Greek melōidia chanting, music, from melos limb, musical phrase, song (probably akin to Breton mell joint) + aeidein to sing — more at ode
Date:
13th century 1 : a sweet or agreeable succession or arrangement of sounds : tunefulness 2 : a rhythmic succession of single tones organized as an aesthetic whole
— me·lod·ic \mə-ˈlä-dik\ adjective
— me·lod·i·cal·ly \-di-k(ə-)lē\ adverb

I'd say rap has melody...
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:20 PM   #75
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mechanical sounds having rhythm
I'm so glad it said that..
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:22 PM   #76
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Just occured to me that it says rhythm, melody, OR harmony. So if it has any of them then it's music. So yeah, rap wins.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:26 PM   #77
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*crotch chop*
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:34 PM   #78
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Textbook definition, bitches..
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:45 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris P Lettus View Post
Yep..

See I've gotten into two separate arguments lately with shitheads who hate "rap".. I've broken them down so much that they say things like "making beats is nothing but pushing buttons" etc.. After comparing a great MC like Mos Def to a rock singer/song writer (because both write songs and MCs like Mos wouldn't be good without having a God given good voice) BOTH the guys I've argued with have broken down even further and said that if you don't play an instrument then you are not a musician..

I thought this was gonna be about this shithead, to be honest....



To be honest, I barely listen to rap these days, but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't take talent to loop shit live (And some people can be fucking SICK), or to rhyme with a degree of precision.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:10 AM   #80
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LMFAO

His freestyle was the shit..
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