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Reload this Page DISCUSSION - What should be the "contigency plan" if Roman Reigns FAILS as the Top BabyFace?
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:30 PM   #41
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Yeah I don't think them finding someone as irritatingly out of place and miscast is at all out of the cards. in fact I think it is the most likely scenario.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:34 PM   #42
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Say you're right Destor.... and this misguided approach of "meta booking" is their direction... why not just focus on putting forth a product people actually want to watch?
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:39 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
Say you're right Destor.... and this misguided approach of "meta booking" is their direction... why not just focus on putting forth a product people actually want to watch?
Because theyd still shit on it. Dont forget they were red hot for both cena and reigns right up until the office actually backed them. And with reigns they didnt change anything. This generation of fans are basically hipsters.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:55 PM   #44
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the thing you're over looking though is that they started booking them differently to what made them who they were.

Same happened with Diesel. They kind of get over on their own organic connection with the crowd, Vince got his hands on him and totally lost the fans because he went from asskicker to vanilla douche.

Austin and Rock managed to avoid the corporate stink with the fans.

Not to say Reigns and Cena aren't great in their own right. Reigns lacks depth at this point though.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:59 PM   #45
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People didn't turn on Cena when the office got behind him. What kind of revisionist shit is that? They got behind him when he went over show for the US title. He slowly started morphing into the Cena we know over the next 2 years. He was still massively over when he moved to raw as the champion. It was during that year plus of Cena being champ and running through everyone with no good booking or stories, just people being fed to him, that they started changing, then after Edge winning the title, people got excited for that only for it to drop back to Cena and continue the status quo again that it really hit its peak. Then we go into more of the same, some ecw events, and by that time we saw the height of the Cena hate.

That was coming up on 10 years ago. Since then it's just become the norm and cool thing to hate Cena, but back then it was organic hate.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:13 PM   #46
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To me it always seemed Cena got shat on because of the played out corporate overcome the odds booking.

I agree now it's kind of like the Kurt Angle "You Suck" out of respect thing because the guy is great.

Fans seem sick of the vanilla booking and having guys forced down their throats. And what makes it worse is that the mid card story lines mean nothing and it makes someone like Reigns and Cena in his time over exposed because nobody is a star other than them and it's the same thing every week.
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:49 PM   #47
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Some of it goes along with his first two feuds as WWE Champion. His first was Jericho. He was mostly liked, but Jericho still had some fans.

Then came Angle, who had just gotten off a feud with Eugene. And the highlight of that feud? Fans were booing a retard. Why were fans booing a retard? Because, deep down, people were beyond hating Angle at that point. They loved him. Even with him as a heel, they loved him.

And the Angle feud came with WWE doing everything short of him drowning kittens in the middle of the ring to get fans to hate him, and it didn't work. Because fans weren't buying it.

Triple H had about the same problem. He was also gone for a while, so people missed him. And all attempts to make him a heel wasn't working, either. He just rolled with it.

The only person during that period that Cena consistently got the "right reaction" against was Edge. And this was during the time when Edge was an unlikable bastard. I would have gotten cheers against him at that point.
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:06 PM   #48
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Obviously you bring back xpac to confront reigns and accuse him of taking his heat. Chyna returns and low blows xpac to help reigns retain. Next night on raw steph goes ballistic for reigns bringing back that whore and reigns will be an enormous face
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:37 PM   #49
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I'd argue the Jericho feud and the Marine film were the two biggest moments that turned crowds completely against Cena.

Hanso is right about crowds still favoring Cena with his move to RAW right until the Jericho feud happened. Didn't last long since the Jericho feud was his first official RAW feud.

Then about a year later the Marine comes out and the WWE gutted everything left that got Cena over with the crowds in favor of a more military or patriotic inspired character. Crowds reacted negatively because of how forced the switch was and it being the basis for the Super Cena view of the character.

By that point whatever goodwill the fans had left with Cena was gone afterwards.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:22 AM   #50
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Which is pretty much the corporate backing I was talking about, which is you're the featured guy on RAW. It wasn't long after the Jericho feud that things weren't peachy.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:48 AM   #51
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I don't think that there is back up "Roman Reigns", that being a powerhouse wrestler with a big build who has the look that Vince creams for. I think in case Roman is injured or totally falls flat (not going to happen) that you'd have to go with a different angle, probably heel champ and underdog babyface.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:41 AM   #52
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Why do they book Reigns as a powerhouse when he really isn't a huge monster and lacks intensity?
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:44 AM   #53
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He has intensity when it's not contrived (as seen in the Shield). He sells too much though.

Honestly, he needs to change his trunks. It's hard to take a guy seriously selling offence when he looks like a wannabe boondock saint
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:22 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
I'd argue the Jericho feud and the Marine film were the two biggest moments that turned crowds completely against Cena.

Hanso is right about crowds still favoring Cena with his move to RAW right until the Jericho feud happened. Didn't last long since the Jericho feud was his first official RAW feud.

Then about a year later the Marine comes out and the WWE gutted everything left that got Cena over with the crowds in favor of a more military or patriotic inspired character. Crowds reacted negatively because of how forced the switch was and it being the basis for the Super Cena view of the character.

By that point whatever goodwill the fans had left with Cena was gone afterwards.
It started there, to be sure. I just don't think it was as hostile quite yet.

Also, I'm sure Vince would have had Harvey Whippleman visit an animal shelter and pick up a 5 gallon bucket for Angle if he thought he wouldn't have caught shit from PETA.
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:59 PM   #55
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Cena is still the man, hes just on the shelf.

Roman needs to prove he can take the ball from Cena when Cena returns.
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:03 PM   #56
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I'd go with multiple lead faces for the show...if you think about the show thrived on Austin AND Rock both being faces for a period. The more 'big name faces' the better.
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:24 PM   #57
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The less over exposed the one guy is too.
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:17 PM   #58
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Hell, even though he was the big dog, Hogan wasn't the only show in town back in the '80s. There was also, during various times of the era, Jake, Savage, Bossman, Hacksaw, and Warrior.

Again, with the exception of Warrior, they weren't viewed as at the level of Hogan, but they were there and credibly booked enough to have people want to see them.
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:24 PM   #59
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And their angles felt like a big deal and not just generic filler. Funnily enough, most of the matches ended in shitty dqs but the character works was so strong it didn't matter.
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:33 PM   #60
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The multiple strong character idea holds up. 25 years ago Vince was running 3 different tours with Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Rude, DiBiase, Duggan, Jake, Dusty, and Andre all rotating as headliners in A, B, and C tours. They could never run multiple tours at that level, but having multiple strong characters can be done, has been done, and should be done again with one guy as the top, and the other guys all strong challengers and characters to play off.
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:09 PM   #61
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Roman is nowhere near bad in the ring. And when you watch him live he's got "it" for sure. The problem I have and its unfortunate is that Roman is the WWE's "guy" and I was raised watching my hero's flip the bird, drink beers, fuck people over, and generally do imperfect or amoral things. I and much of the IWC are going to rebel against him, or anyone that is pushed down our throat as a "good guy", we don't believe it, it's bullshit.
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:13 PM   #62
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Quote:
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Roman is nowhere near bad in the ring. And when you watch him live he's got "it" for sure. The problem I have and its unfortunate is that Roman is the WWE's "guy" and I was raised watching my hero's flip the bird, drink beers, fuck people over, and generally do imperfect or amoral things. I and much of the IWC are going to rebel against him, or anyone that is pushed down our throat as a "good guy", we don't believe it, it's bullshit.
It's not that simple.
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:28 PM   #63
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Amazing journey to get the belt on Roman. In the end, WWE proves they know what their doing when it comes to creating new stars. Hope this whole saga shuts a lot of people on here up for a while.
12/14/15

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Old 04-11-2016, 06:45 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
It's not that simple.
I think it is, what is complex about this situation?
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:46 PM   #65
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DISCUSSION - What should be the "contigency plan" if Roman Reigns FAILS as the Top BabyFace?

What if things do not pan out with Reigns and fans start giving Reigns the dreaded "X-Pac heat?" (I haven't watched WWE in over a year and so maybe its already happening?). Do you go back to Cena? Do you bring back Rollins as a face and make HIM "the guy?"


What about a guy like Randy Orton? Orton is obviously winding down, but perhaps 1-2 years of being "the guy" as a babyface could work while the next guy (Sammy Zayn, Kevin Owens) is getting groomed? Do you shell out more money to Lesnar so he can work more dates, and make HIM "the guy" for a few years? Is there any hope for Cesaro still? Can Bray Wyatt ever be the top face?


What would YOU do if you were in charge of the WWE, and came to the realization that Roman Reigns should not be "the guy" for the new era?

If he fails? He already has effectively despite a major push the last few years, winning the Royal Rumble twice, headlining WM twice and effectively becoming a three time world champion. They tried to do with him what they did with Austin, Foley and Bryan i.e. the Good Guy vs the Authority/Establishment etc. and the fans (a lot of them) just aren't buying into it.

It will simply be a case of now Reigns holding onto the belt until the next top face is ready. Dropping the belt to AJ Styles at the next PPV would be far too soon but I would say either him or Ambrose are "next in line". After that Cena at some point is going to his title win to surpass Ric Flair's record and I wouldn't be surprised to see Randy Orton back in the title picture eventually.

Could we have a situation where the belt changes hands ever few ppvs or so? Should we have that situation? Would be interesting to have a few top faces around.

Zayn is another option but not ready yet.


As for Owens, Rollins and Wyatt, they are very much firmly heels for the for the foreseeable future. As I debate with others, WWE have firmly dropped the ball with Bray Wyatt; his character has at best regressed i.e. went from a super hot heel and seemed as he was going to make it going alone, only for WWE to complete blow it by having him lose to the Undertaker (bad move in my opinion), reform the Wyatt Family with three other terrible wrestlers (Harper isn't that bad but the others are at best TNA Championship material), and given what I felt was a humiliating angle for him at WM 32, it really does seem as if he isn't progressing beyond the mid-card for some time unless he's featured in some kind of elimination chamber or MITB match.


So my top faces in place of Reigns would be:

1) AJ Styles
2) Dean Ambrose
3) John Cena

As in that's the order I have them in line for a WWE title run.


Heels:

1) Rollins
2)Owens
3) Jericho

I didn't mention Lesnar for virtue of him being a part-timer and I feel he won't be in the title picture aggain now for the rest of 2016 unless as I said there was some sort of elimination chamber or 6 man match for the belt.

Jericho it has been some time since he's been in the frame. Is he worth a shot, who knows?


In my wildest dreams I'd like to see Undertaker win the belt one last time. Far-fetched idea yes but then I'd have laughed at you if you'd told me Sting was going wrestle in the WWE, have a match at Wrestle Mania and close out a WWE PPV fighting for the WWE title, all when he was adamant he was never going to be a Vince McMahon guy.


So my answer to your question of "who is the top babyface if Roman Reigns fails?" All signs point towards AJ Styles atm: shit hot in popularity, great wrestler and was one of those major stars WWE always wanted but never got and unlike Sting can still wrestle and take a bump and I would not be surprised if he won the WWE title either by the end of 2016 or at WM 33 via winning the RR.

AJ Styles v John Cena main event WM 33.
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:49 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragile X View Post
I think it is, what is complex about this situation?
He doesn't need to be a beer swilling foul mouthed red neck. He needs to find his own organic connection with the audience. See: Daniel Bryan.
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:53 PM   #67
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Oh I agree with you. I am just saying that because I was raised on that "attitude" I'm not gonna buy anyone that WWE tell's me "is a good guy". It took me like 8 years to enjoy John Cena, once I found out who he really is, and it just so happens he is a good guy, but that's who he is. Roman, we know nothing about him. He's just another member of the Anoi family tree who used to play football.
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:56 PM   #68
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And yeah Daniel is another example of a guy who was able to project his honest personality. Dean is another. They get over because they aren't faking it. Even if they have scripted lines, they don't go too far outside of the realm of that personality.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:37 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragile X View Post
Oh I agree with you. I am just saying that because I was raised on that "attitude" I'm not gonna buy anyone that WWE tell's me "is a good guy". It took me like 8 years to enjoy John Cena, once I found out who he really is, and it just so happens he is a good guy, but that's who he is. Roman, we know nothing about him. He's just another member of the Anoi family tree who used to play football.
I think this is a great point. Not once have I been given a reason to care about Reigns. He has done nothing to entertain me or get me interested in him. His progression has been very different from Cena. We cared about Cena and his Dr of Thuganomics, we cared around his early title reigns, we stopped caring when it seemed like he was dialing it in and he was the industructable super Cena who no sold everything for years. I only started caring for Cena again when CM Punk called out the Cena shenanigans. Now I don't mind the guy. Reigns needs to organically find his way or at the very least improve his ring game beyond 3 moves.
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:22 PM   #70
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I get a sick giddy pleasure over them thinking this new "the guy" line shows any personallity. It's.not said in an honest or personal way, it's another.manufactured michael Cole Schilling Buzz phrase. He says it with no passion. It's the wwe thinking they are one step ahead but still beoing utterly toolish.

I was joking about how Michael Cole was going to repeat that line on commentary as though he's doing ng actual Pbp analysis, low and behold lastnight it's exactly what he did, and it was as phony and terrible as most of Romans push and I marked out for myself.
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:50 AM   #71
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Reigns as champ is like a poor man's version of RVD c. 10 years ago, except I'm actually convinced if it weren't for his legal trouble, RVD would've actually gotten over. Would it have taken plenty of time? Of course. But things really seemed promising when he had the ECW and WWE belts at the same time, like I said until he was stupid and got busted in Ohio for pot. But hey, EVERYTHING'S cool ehen you're R...V...D, right?
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:43 AM   #72
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I'm really worried that when they bring Seth Rollins back he's going to be forced back into the heel role he was in, fighting the organic feeling people will have to cheer him. He could be a great babyface for the company now that he's earned some stripes as a heel. Orton is going to get cheered too, but I think he would be better used as a heel if they need to turn somebody. Cena is going to be babyface, Rollins should be a babyface, so bring Orton back and have him take out Ambrose with an RKO or something.

That being said, I think the WWE, for whatever reason, has taken a lot of focus of developing proper faces and heels, and I can just see the main event being a bunch of people -- you might like some and might not like others. So maybe Orton will just come back and RKO Reigns and be the most over guy in the company?
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:20 AM   #73
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So RR is "The Guy" and Ryback is "The Big Guy." Good job writers, you are very creative.
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Old 04-17-2016, 12:17 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAMN iNATOR View Post
Reigns as champ is like a poor man's version of RVD c. 10 years ago, except I'm actually convinced if it weren't for his legal trouble, RVD would've actually gotten over. Would it have taken plenty of time? Of course. But things really seemed promising when he had the ECW and WWE belts at the same time, like I said until he was stupid and got busted in Ohio for pot. But hey, EVERYTHING'S cool ehen you're R...V...D, right?
What the fuck are you talking about lol
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Old 04-17-2016, 02:48 PM   #75
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RVD was already over as fuck when he won the title.

Also, lol random damnman rvd hate.
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Old 04-25-2016, 05:55 AM   #76
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So RR is "The Guy" and Ryback is "The Big Guy." Good job writers, you are very creative.
To be fair, Ryback isn't very high on the WWE's priority list. That's why he'll be the US Champion soon.
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:18 PM   #77
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Contingency plan? Use almost anyone.

In my opinion, Reigns is a white hot heel waiting to happen.

Anyone versus Roman. Money.
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Old 04-26-2016, 02:08 AM   #78
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RVD was already over as fuck when he won the title.

Also, lol random damnman rvd hate.
Not "hate". Just saying maybe he shouldn't have been driving around with marijuana in his car like a fucking idiot. That's all. Yes, everyone makes mistakes and I'm not trying to judge him, but it really did effectively cut his WWE career (2010s run notwithstanding) far short of what it could've been.
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:05 AM   #79
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Wrestlers tend to do dumb shit sometimes, particularly because of the harsh road schedule. At the time it was frustrating, but in retrospect I don't believe anyone was overly surprised, as it was the ultimate "RVD" thing to do. It's not like he was going to get a super long title reign. He was 2nd fiddle to Edge and Cena and that was never going to change.
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