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Old 08-23-2016, 03:05 PM   #1
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Cool moves or cool stories?
A Facebook friend of mine who is also a wrestler posted this yesterday:

"I'm just sayin... Bob Backlund was world heavyweight champion for the better part of a decade, same with Sammartino, hell, even Hogan...guess how many times they had to relinquish the title due to injury? ‪#‎GoodStoriesTrumpDangerousMoves‬"

This was upon finding out that Seth Rollins had injured Finn Balor. What do you guys think?

I think that I would much rather watch a Finn Balor/Seth Rollins match over...well, probably any Hogan match in history. However, Hogan definitely was working a much safer style that contributed to his longevity. I also think that most of Hogan's "stories" were shitty too.

I'm rambling now, but I think you get what I'm talking about. What do you think about any of this?

FREAKY! OUTTIE!

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All would of been well if I'd have fucked her in the toilet.


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Old 08-23-2016, 03:18 PM   #2
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Well, it was the WCW Cruiserweights that got me into wrestling as the 80's stuff bored me, so I think you can guess my answer.

Broken necks everywhere.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:25 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by #BROKEN Hasney View Post
Well, it was the WCW Cruiserweights that got me into wrestling as the 80's stuff bored me, so I think you can guess my answer.

Broken necks everywhere.
I think I agree with this.

He sounds like he was posting as more of a wrestler than a fan. Which I guess makes sense, as he is a wrestler. Not an overly athletic one, either.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:28 PM   #4
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I think I agree with this.

He sounds like he was posting as more of a wrestler than a fan. Which I guess makes sense, as he is a wrestler. Not an overly athletic one, either.
True, that makes sense. Plus if you can tell a story in the ring, I'm all for it. Gargano/Ciampa and Lucha Underground being my favourite things just make that clear.

What is it, 2 weeks until Lucha is back? Thank fuck.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:31 PM   #5
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Yeaaaaahhhh, you can for sure tell a cool story (bro) with cool moves. I wonder what some of the other wrestlers here think. Destor? Rollermacka? Indifferent Clox?
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:33 PM   #6
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Well first and foremost I prefer cool stories HOWEVER you can tell cool stories WITH dangerous moves. These arent mutually exclusive. My only thing is these high impact moves are pissed away with out any meaning. It's like hard core, eventually there is a ceiling.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:35 PM   #7
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Rammsteinmad?
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:36 PM   #8
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To be fair though, even guys like Hogan who worked "safely" have been plagued with injuries and had countless surgeries/plates/fake hips etc. I guess the "cooler moves" definitely come with a higher risk, but then, sadly that's just the nature of the business.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
To be fair though, even guys like Hogan who worked "safely" have been plagued with injuries and had countless surgeries/plates/fake hips etc. I guess the "cooler moves" definitely come with a higher risk, but then, sadly that's just the nature of the business.
Yeah but think about how many dates he pulled a year
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:38 PM   #10
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Both, I like the fast paced action but it means nothing if the story isn't right.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Well first and foremost I prefer cool stories HOWEVER you can tell cool stories WITH dangerous moves. These arent mutually exclusive. My only thing is these high impact moves are pissed away with out any meaning. It's like hard core, eventually there is a ceiling.
This makes sense as well. If you are blowing through huge spots all willy nilly, they tend to lose the 'wow' factor. He was also complaining about the overuse of the false finish these days, which I think I kinda agree with.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:50 PM   #12
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This makes sense as well. If you are blowing through huge spots all willy nilly, they tend to lose the 'wow' factor. He was also complaining about the overuse of the false finish these days, which I think I kinda agree with.
Yeah you kill your own finish in a lot of ways HOWEVER I think the American psycology of a finisher is fucking retarded.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:52 PM   #13
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I rather have awesome stories over insane moves. I want the drama to pay off. Balor didn't matter since he just became the champ but when Rollins went out with an injury it was devastating. The story being told was finally coming to a conclusion and BAM.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:59 PM   #14
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I'd much rather watch a Hogan match than a match involving Crossfit Jesus. That guy injures everyone he has a match with.
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Old 08-23-2016, 04:01 PM   #15
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Stan Hansen broke Bruno Sammartino's Neck. #ShutitDown
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Old 08-23-2016, 04:08 PM   #16
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Yeah you kill your own finish in a lot of ways HOWEVER I think the American psycology of a finisher is fucking retarded.
I do enjoy when matches end on devastating-looking non-finishers. Gives everything an air of believeability.

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I rather have awesome stories over insane moves. I want the drama to pay off. Balor didn't matter since he just became the champ but when Rollins went out with an injury it was devastating. The story being told was finally coming to a conclusion and BAM.
Yeah, I was really getting into the Rollins reign. Would have loved to see how they would have wanted it to end...but it probably would have just been Roman Reigns.
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Old 08-23-2016, 04:15 PM   #17
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I do enjoy when matches end on devastating-looking non-finishers. Gives everything an air of believeability.
I'm gonna derail this thread a bit but lets talk about finishers for a second. So like lets go ahead and pretend you have unlocked the magical art of this one move and with you can win once you hit it. I'll give you that much, its fucking stupid but I'll let you have it. So, knowing that I have this ace up my sleeve, why would I do anything other than spend 80% of my effort trying to hit said magic move?


The problem is it isnt the last move of the match that should beat you, but every move leading to that point. These "finishers" imo should be kicked out of and often. They should win matches, and often. Because it's just a piece of their arsenal. Clearly I prefer Japanese wrestling but having "signiture moves" makes more sense from a psychology stand point AND a drama stand point. Truely not knowing if this one will do it is better.


*note: I understand that american fans demand the finisher logic and thus we should play by the law of the land. This is just a general conversation about the conept not it's usage.
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Old 08-23-2016, 04:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I'm gonna derail this thread a bit but lets talk about finishers for a second. So like lets go ahead and pretend you have unlocked the magical art of this one move and with you can win once you hit it. I'll give you that much, its fucking stupid but I'll let you have it. So, knowing that I have this ace up my sleeve, why would I do anything other than spend 80% of my effort trying to hit said magic move?


The problem is it isnt the last move of the match that should beat you, but every move leading to that point. These "finishers" imo should be kicked out of and often. They should win matches, and often. Because it's just a piece of their arsenal. Clearly I prefer Japanese wrestling but having "signiture moves" makes more sense from a psychology stand point AND a drama stand point. Truely not knowing if this one will do it is better.


*note: I understand that american fans demand the finisher logic and thus we should play by the law of the land. This is just a general conversation about the conept not it's usage.
I'm used to the finisher system by now, but I do agree that it is a bit silly, if not entirely.

I especially hate when people have signature moves that look far more devastating than their finishers. John Cena springs to mind.
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Old 08-23-2016, 04:27 PM   #19
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Its not the moves. It's the long road to hoe. Bruno would wrestle like once a month when he was the champ.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:10 PM   #20
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If they could actually keep a "story" that made sense or is even half "Good" it would be great. The majority of their product is in the ring and I feel that is where they should excel more.

Really hate the finisher logic too. For all the "high spots" there are, you know it will never be over until a specific move is hit. Kinda takes out the anticipation and "mark out" moment.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:11 PM   #21
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If they could actually keep a "story" that made sense or is even half "Good" it would be great. The majority of their product is in the ring and I feel that is where they should excel more.
Agree. Rather prefer cool moves now because of how bad the WWE is with telling stories either in or out of the ring.

Might get lucky once in a while where they come up with a very good story (ex. Bryan's road to the title once they got behind him) but majority of the time, the real entertainment is from in-ring stuff (ex. US Open Challenge series).
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:15 PM   #22
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Bryan's road to the title and the "Monster" video package was out of this world. That is a perfect example of how to get people to "care".

Kinda confused why they hot-shotted Balor TBH. Feel like he should have had more of a build for people to get who he is, etc.

They were too worried about shilling the Demon gimmick for network subs they just couldn't help themselves. Now, the Demon gimmick will be stale before 2017 and no one will care about the tremendous talent Devitt has.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:26 PM   #23
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Probably a mix of them only noticing the big merch sales he was generating in NXT and the brand split watering down both rosters in terms of star power.

Instead of having time to build him up to be a potential major star, like a lot of other times they just rushed or forced it to happen. The only bright side is unlike with Reigns, crowds were willing to accept Balor's status as a top star.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:31 PM   #24
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I think they understand that most active fans know what NXT is and know it's not the minor leagues anymore. Everybody in the arena was doing the lights up arm thing. They have been since he debuted on Raw in the Fatal Four Way. People know NXT and they know and like Finn Balor.
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:39 PM   #25
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A few years ago, I might have called for a more exciting ring style, but I am honestly sick of it now. When everybody is doing these indie strong style matches with the false finishes, they all blend together. I haven't felt like I should go out of my way to see a match since AJ Styles vs. John Cena at Money in the Bank. That was built up with with promos.

I'm with Destor in that it doesn't need to be one versus the other. Finn Balor and Seth Rollins should have the match that Finn Balor and Seth Rollins should have. I just prefer it when there are stakes involved, and that I can be assured that the guy I am behind now isn't just going to be part of the scenery tomorrow.

50/50 booking is a real turn-off, and there doesn't seem to be that show-long vision that allows you to feel like wrestling is truly great. Not everything needs to be an angle, and sometimes having a good solid match on the card is necessary to help a show pop, but you need to know what else you have going on elsewhere. That's why booking is an art form, and it's why having a writing team is never going to produce that truly great "whole product" feel. There's going to be no grand vision that you can feel like you're experiencing the first steps to.

Even if Big Cass, for example, gets really over and people are clamoring for him to win the Royal Rumble and take the Universal Title from Brock at WrestleMania, that will be accidental at this point. The story will be filled in by fans retroactively. Right now we're just getting week-to-week bullshit because they have so many programming requirements.
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Old 08-27-2016, 08:28 PM   #26
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I really only have one thing to say about Seth Rollins being "dangerous." You can work stiff, and that's fine, but we're starting to see a trend...he's hurt Sting, top guy, legend...he's hurt Cena, top guy, legend, THE guy, and he's hurt Finn Balor, the golden boy, will be the guy unless he can't stay healthy.

I don't want to be the guy that says "tone it down," but seriously...those are three big time wrestlers. There are a bunch of guys who could be in his spot...you cannot work like that.

Where's my "Bret was right" shirt?
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