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Old 01-26-2015, 12:35 PM   #41
Theo Dious
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#cancelWWEnetwork = We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore.

People are sick of the feeling that they aren't getting what they're asking for. They want Bryan, Ambrose, Ziggler, Rollins and Wyatt more than Reigns. They have a voice now and they're not going to stay quiet when a not even top 5 guy is put in the top spot.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:38 PM   #42
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Getting back on track, I suppose that is the main crux of this thread. Do you feel that is how things SHOULD be? The fans dictating who goes over?

How much power/control should the audience have with storylines/feuds/etc playing out?

(I'm merely trying to guide the discussion along, not saying one thing one way or another)
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:38 PM   #43
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Well, here is my take on it.... The WWE has done this to themselves. They want to talk about how they are always trending on twitter, post your comments on Facebook and Youtube, etc. etc. Ok, well, you can't expect it to always be a glowing review of your product. And they've made it very well known that their primary focus is the Network. It is their future, it is their life line, it is their business model.

In past years you could go on a message board like this, or take to Facebook, or even just tune out from the product if you didn't like where the direction was going to voice your displeasure. But really, we all knew that in the grand scheme of things it wasn't going to make any difference or have any effect on the product.

This is different, and it feels like fans actually have a means to effect change now.

Is it a good thing? Yes and no. I'm not worried about what kind of precedent it sets because quite frankly, the WWE has put themselves in this position. They have given fans the tools to directly effect their daily business, and that's on them for doing that.

It's good because maybe, just maybe, someone in CT will finally see that the fans are passionate and they WANT to support the product, but we are not going to continue to support poor booking, lousy story lines, and dull/cheesy characters. Maybe someone will actually stand up to Vince and tell him that he is wrong. Wishful thinking perhaps, but money talks and if the subscription numbers fall that hard and the stock plummets you might be looking at a foreceful departure for old Vinny Mac.

This was a monumental fuck up from a booking perspective and it proved that those in charge are either A) Completely delusional, or B) Completely out of touch. And the kicker is that they KNEW it was a bad move and they went with it anyway. If your guy can't pop a crowd at the Royal Rumble, how on Earth could you possibly rely on him to headline your WM main event?

For the record, I'm not even mad that Bryan didn't win. It's the way it was booked that bothers me. Bryan going out early, Ziggler getting eliminated in 2 minutes and then being tossed out like a sack of potatoes along with Ambrose. I mean the only other thing they could have done was have Vince himself walk out to the ring and give the middle finger to the crowd. "Oh, you wanna cheer for these guys? Well Fuck You, you will cheer for the guy I WANT you to cheer for." That's what that was last night.

But, is a dangerous precedent being set? Fuck 'em, they did it to themselves.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:44 PM   #44
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The stock won't take a hit yet. The renewals are still in their month long phase. It will take a hit when the memberships are not being renewed.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:50 PM   #45
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Most of the people bitching and saying they're gonna cancel their subscriptions probably won't.

Would be great if they did, might actually lose the WWE a shit-load of money, which will hopefully make them really look at their product and think about what they're doing wrong.

At the end of the day, I'm not a businessman. I have no idea how to run a multi-million dollar entertainment company. But I'm a fan (22 years now), and I know what I like and don't like. As a company that prides itself on "giving the fans what they want", WWE are well-and-truly out of touch with their fan base.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:52 PM   #46
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Just for the record, I'm not mad about Bryan's elimination, nor was I mad that he wasn't in the match last year. But fuck me if Reign's is gonna become Cena #2, and with the booking being really shitty as ever lately, even I'm struggling to follow the product any more.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:53 PM   #47
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The thing is that this is more than "we wanted Daniel Bryan to win and he didn't." Daniel Bryan is the embodiment of the fans not getting what they want. It's equal parts of Cena, Orton, Batista and Triple H being constantly featured while the Jerichos, Punks, and Zigglers have been cycled back into the midcard. Daniel Bryan is the crystallization of "not this time." WWE has been riding the social media deal hoping to take advantage of it, now they need to understand that it goes both ways.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:56 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
Getting back on track, I suppose that is the main crux of this thread. Do you feel that is how things SHOULD be? The fans dictating who goes over?

How much power/control should the audience have with storylines/feuds/etc playing out?

(I'm merely trying to guide the discussion along, not saying one thing one way or another)
control might be the wrong word, but they should definitely have more influence over the product than they do.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:03 PM   #49
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Definitely should have more power.

WWE pride themselves on listening to the fans etc... in 2011 "We Want Ryder" was being chanted in arenas all over America. Zack Ryder got himself to the point of being one of the most over guys in the company all by himself, without the WWE machine behind him... and what happened there?
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:03 PM   #50
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The fact that they used the Rock the way they did they knew it would be bad and did it anyway They basically said "fuck you" to fans for two years in a row this shit storm is just fans saying fuck you back louder.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:05 PM   #51
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Ultimately, the fans will still tune in and WWE will keep going as it always does.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:05 PM   #52
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But I fully support this fan-backlash and hope that it goes somewhere to making something of a difference.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:07 PM   #53
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That's funny Bryan didn't win and everyone wants to cancel their network subscription.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:09 PM   #54
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Its more than Bryan
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:12 PM   #55
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on a funny note My older brother called (he wasn't able to see the Rumble.)

brother:how did it go?

me:Roman won the thing

brother: oh MAN are fans mad?

me:* looking at twitter cancelwwenetwork feed* yea they seem kinda upset.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:15 PM   #56
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He is just not an A+ player when will people learn.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:15 PM   #57
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:23 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Definitely should have more power.

WWE pride themselves on listening to the fans etc... in 2011 "We Want Ryder" was being chanted in arenas all over America. Zack Ryder got himself to the point of being one of the most over guys in the company all by himself, without the WWE machine behind him... and what happened there?
Ryders in ring promos sucked.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:26 PM   #59
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Quote:
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Ryders in ring promos sucked.
Doesn't matter. Ryder became one of the most over people all by himself. From a business point-of-view, who wouldn't want a guy with that much passion, ambition and ingenuity working for them?
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:36 PM   #60
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as always here are the people you can blame for where things are today: #1 the fans, #2 Hulk Hogan


IWC fans do backflips for all these "vanilla midgets". If it isn't Jericho in 96, then it was chirstian in 02, or punk, or db, or ziggler or rollins. they go to the end of the earth screaming how much talent these guys have and how they want them on top of the card with the strap.


back in 88 when they finally gave someone besides that big bald fuck with 3 moves a chance at the title , Randy Savage was considered undersized. Incredible in the ring but booked as inferior to the big monsters of the day (omg, andre, etc) so fans turned and wanted Hogan back. Vince was left burned .


so anytime now a guy 217 lbs with a great moveset and workrate comes along you can damn sure bet as long as VKM is alive he will prefer the bodybuilding Adonis who has the look over the guy that the crowd claims they want. You know why because when you little faggots cry you want something and you get it, you tune out. Savage's reign didn't draw because of you, CM punk's first reign didn't draw because of you. DB didn't draw because of you. and because of that you will get Hulk Hogan, always!


blame yourselves.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:41 PM   #61
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Great point, Gertner.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:43 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Doesn't matter. Ryder became one of the most over people all by himself. From a business point-of-view, who wouldn't want a guy with that much passion, ambition and ingenuity working for them?
The problem with Ryder is that he had nothing more to offer once he got himself a spot. Same with Matt Hardy after his run with Edge. Both of them burned bright but couldn't sustain it. Bryan got himself to the top and has kept himself there. His injury might end up being a huge blessing in disguise; it's proving to the company that people really do want him as their guy and didn't forget about him despite an extended absence.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:49 PM   #63
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Com'on Gertner you know I love you man you gotta know why this is awesome and necessary
Lol no, I don't actually
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:52 PM   #64
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Well, we don't really know that for sure since he was given the US title (in a match where the crowd went batshit crazy when he won), lost it two weeks later and then went absolutely nowhere.

And how long were people chanting "we want Ryder" before he even got that match?

Another fine example of WWE "listening to their fans".

My point with Ryder isn't whether he's good or not, it's the idea of the WWE claiming to listen to their fans and then doing the complete opposite. Your point about Bryan being the living embodiment of the fans starting to fight back pretty much sums it up. I hope people claiming to cancel their subscriptions do, and I hope we get a second wave of the Yes movement. WWE needs to sort their product out. It's long, long overdue.
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:04 PM   #65
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^^ yea, they should have twitter contest for fans of the week, and then let the little fucktards come in and book all the events.
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:11 PM   #66
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I dunno man. "Sold out" arenas chanting "we want Ryder" every week would seem like a pretty strong indication of what the audience wants.
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:17 PM   #67
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I dont want to miss the nxt show next month
#notcancelingwwenetwork
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:19 PM   #68
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Back to RDDs post, yes this is how it should be , fans should dictate the product.

This isnt a sit com, or a Drama. this isnt a 1 hour show on 13 weeks a year.

This is a unique entertainment medium that asks fans to

1) Watch 52 3 hour monday night shows a year. Watch 52 Thursday Night shows a year, and god knows how much other stupid shit they put on TV.
2) Buy 59.99 dollar super shows that act as the climax of the shows we put 300 hours a year into watch (so that the company can make money on the TV shows, and also the PPV money)
3) In lieu of paying 59.99 for one show, sign up for a 6 month plan with their own service to watch the pay off of the 300 hours a year they produce.
4) Buy merchandise and video games of the show and superstars.
5) Pay money to come out to live events that tour around the country.

This isnt people bitching about how lost ended. This isnt a normal show. This isnt something fans should "shut up and watch".

Can you imagine if ABC made you buy the Lost Finale for 59.99? Or had a Lost Network? And asked you to come to live Q and A sessions around t he country?

The WWE has made their own format, and they can deal with the angry fans. This is Wrestling 101. Give fans something they want to see to sell tickets.

Now we have to spend more and more to see less and less. Fans are mad that in the last year and a half there has been little to no quality shows, less pay offs to their paid PPVs, no change in direction, the same matches over and over, and the things they cheer for and want to see are disregarded.

Hulk Hogan wasnt champion for 4 years straight because Vince said so. he was because fans wanted it, and spent money, watched shows, bought PPVs and clothes. Fans ate up the product.

Same with the Rock

Same with Austin.

The WWE has been shoving shit down the throat of the fan and dictating to the fan what THEY want to see for 10 years and while its been an issue in the past, its boiling over now.

You cant have a business model that asks so much of fans time and money and expect them to eat shit and smile about it.
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:22 PM   #69
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The only thing that is keeping me from torching all my WWE merch and joining the rebellion is my sons that watch it with me. They are getting the PG treatment and enjoy the stupid ass crap that is being provided.

I enjoyed the Attitude Era and if it takes everyone abandoning the current product to get it back to where it was 15-18 years ago then so be it. I just don't see that being easy
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:34 PM   #70
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Lets turn this topic a bit as well: Is it wrong for fans to be upset with a product changing like the WWE has?

Most of us grew up and fell in love with the show, and its evolved to an entirely different experience now. Why is it wrong for fans to be upset by that?

If one day any other type of entertainment went public and downgraded their rating, it would kill them
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:34 PM   #71
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The only thing that is keeping me from torching all my WWE merch and joining the rebellion is my sons that watch it with me. They are getting the PG treatment and enjoy the stupid ass crap that is being provided.

I enjoyed the Attitude Era and if it takes everyone abandoning the current product to get it back to where it was 15-18 years ago then so be it. I just don't see that being easy
In the same boat there. Though he rarely watches it anymore for giving RKO's OUTTA NOWHERE to the chihuahua. Funny as hell to see because the dog is all "wtf just happened!" but I cannot encourage that behavior. He debuts in school this fall, and we need to ease him into the universe to avoid a botched push to stardom.
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:35 PM   #72
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Just dont overexpose his mic time during sharing time
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:36 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
The basis of this is that the fans are pissed that "their guy" did not win. Not even so much that Reigns won, and people feel he isn't ready/worthy (though that certainly plays a part in it), but mostly that "someone who isn't Daniel Bryan won".

It's not even the fact that Daniel Bryan didn't win. Him being eliminated so early on in the rumble was monumentally stupid. Even with that being said however, the fans would have firmly gotten behind someone like Ambrose, Ziggler, a returning Orton, or even a properly built up Cesaro had any of those men won the rumble, and so it's not like the fans had EVERYTHING pinned on Bryan. Reigns is simply too green right now, and the fans in the modern era are smart enough to realize this.

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However, what kind of precedent does this send? Where do we go from here? Does the WWE "cave in" to the demands of the vocal minority and shoehorn Bryan into Wrestlemania like what the smark community wants? Do they address it head-on and tell them to shove off?
This might be a situation where the need to. Have a tournament of 6-8 men leading up to the February PPV where the winner gets a title match against Lesnar. Bryan wins the tournament and then defeats Lesnar at the Feburary PPV.

Quote:
I think that if they give in to what the people are saying it sets a bad bad bad precedent. What happens next time? What if Bryan loses at WM? Do the WWE ram Bryan down our throats until he becomes the next Batista or Reigns, because "that's what the people want" ?
If the guy is over and deserving, then why not. Keep things simple. If a guy is way over with the fans, and has paid his dues, push him. The WWE did the same thing with Austin and Rocky during the attitude era, and with Cena in the mid 00's.



Quote:
I guess the point I'm eventually trying to make is that, do the fans really know what's best for them? Are they going to revolt any time they don't get their way, like some petulant children? Are they going to threaten to financially cripple the WWE any time a decision they don't like goes down?
Yes, but I think the fans will be reasonable as well. For instance, had someone like Dolph Ziggler or Dean Ambrose won last night, I think the fans would have gotten on board for that, despite being upset over the Daniel Bryan situation.

Quote:
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Vince really is out of touch. Maybe this is a wake-up call that he needs.
This is how I feel.


Vince should thank his lucky stars that there isn't any viable competition or alternatives to the WWE right now.
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:43 PM   #74
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Reigns winning wouldn't have been an issues had the Rumble been planned a lot better. He didn't look good at all while people who could have energized the crowd after Bryan got taken out with little fanfare because of Big Show & Kane.

Right now it feels like the WWE learned nothing from last year and Vince being way too stubborn to realize Reigns isn't ready at all to carry the company right now.
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:52 PM   #75
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Also, Kane & Big Show have been.... non-contenders in ANYTHING for the past whatever. Sure, Kane gets his TV time by being the lackey for the authority. Big Show gets his "I'm big and I'm gonna beat you up, flip flop my personality, DO YOU LIKE ME NOW!?" - not his fault.

The Rumble match itself was a snoozer, at least the 2nd half. Kane & Show should have been taken out to have some of the named competitors in this thread be some of the last 5-6 in the match. I don't think so many people would have shat on Reigns winning (as much at least) would that have been the course.
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:52 PM   #76
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Gonna be hilarious when all these twats re-purchase the Network in two weeks.
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Old 01-26-2015, 03:01 PM   #77
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I think most will hold off until FastLane or Mania.
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Old 01-26-2015, 03:51 PM   #78
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There's no reason to purchase until Mania really. Unless something extremely drastic takes place, Fast Lane will be a pretty insignificant event.
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:44 PM   #79
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There's no reason to purchase until Mania really. Unless something extremely drastic takes place, Fast Lane will be a pretty insignificant event.
NXT
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:47 PM   #80
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The main issue is them being so comically out of touch with their audience. Why in the world would anybody have thought that was going to sit well. IN PHILIDELPHIA. It's almost impressive how completely disconnected they can be sometimes. As stated, there were options besides Bryan that the crowd would have embraced. They're obsession with big hulked up dudes has been well documented in the past but I don't think there has ever been a time where it was so blatantly transparent and dumbfounding. Everybody is finally seeing how weird, unreasonable, and somewhat homoerotic the entire attitude is. It really is odd. I mean, they are throwing away money to pursue a fetish. Nobody I've ever asked has thought a Reigns was even the most talented Shield member, much less the most talented guy on the roster.

I don't mind Reigns. I actually kind of like him. But I hate the WWE mentality. They really poisoned the water hole by blatantly lying and making him superstar of the year. As soon as the audience feels like they are being spoon fed, they turn. You absolutely cannot force a top guy. Feel like they will never learn this.
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