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Old 04-24-2007, 05:09 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kano
See how hard was that?

Again, its not that conclusive. Unless I see it on the Fuselage or something, or the episode that concludes otherwise, its all fanbased theory.

I just think the excuse 'an effect gone wrong' is false, since so much money, time and talent goes into the show, they wouldn't include it if they were not happy with it or what it would resonate in the future.

Like I said, its a controlled entity, a piece of debris wouldn;t fly/fall like that.
1) The theory that that is the monster is also fan-based as the producers have said nothing about it

2) This is most likely to have happened as it was in a pilot episode which is usually rushed and careless

3) They make it up AS THEY GO ALONG! Think they planned as far back as the first ep that the monster was black smoke?

4) LOL Lost isn't real!
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:07 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Avenger
1) The theory that that is the monster is also fan-based as the producers have said nothing about it

2) This is most likely to have happened as it was in a pilot episode which is usually rushed and careless

3) They make it up AS THEY GO ALONG! Think they planned as far back as the first ep that the monster was black smoke?

4) LOL Lost isn't real!
1: True. But its still there. Still what could be considered a smoke cloud is seen dipping through the air and rising.

2: Rushed? Careless? maybe but still, if they are going to spend between $10m and $14m on the pilot alone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_%28Lost%29, they wouldn't of left it in there by mistake.

3) Yeah I heard they make up SOME elements as they go along, but due to the time spean in the show, the character connections, story arcs etc, I don't think they improvise as much as you have been lead to believe. I dunno if they thought about the black smoke since the beginning. I read the screenplay for the pilot where the monster was introduced, it described the monster as 'part mechanical, part biological and part gas/airborne' the gas/airborne wording wasn't that exactly I just can't remember. But I'm pretty sure they, from the beginning, they were not going to reveal its appearance.

4) Shut it!, shit?, really?
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:53 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kano
I read the screenplay for the pilot where the monster was introduced, it described the monster as 'part mechanical, part biological and part gas/airborne' the gas/airborne wording wasn't that exactly I just can't remember.
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Yeah I heard they also put dildos in the jungle randomly while shooting. Anyone can say shit like that fella. Put up a link.
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:54 AM   #284
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:57 AM   #285
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.
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:59 AM   #286
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And by the way the changing of the story arc every week with a flashback is at the same time lazy and a stroke of genius. I don't know what to think of the Lost writers.
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:04 AM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kano
Yeah I heard they make up SOME elements as they go along, but due to the time span in the show, the character connections, story arcs etc, I don't think they improvise as much as you have been lead to believe.
I think they improvise quite a lot actually.

Jack was supposed to die in the pilot. Surely they would have mapped out the entire idea before the pilot. So at some point they decided to keep Jack on AND make him the central character. Surely that meant a lot of replanning.

Ben was scheduled to appear in 4 Season 2 episodes until they liked the performance and character and kept him on. Suddenly he is the would-be leader of The Others and the central point of Season 3. So once again a change to the planned plot.

Libby and Ana Lucia were killed off due to the actresses that played them getting in trouble with the law (according to rumour). Surely they would have played bigger roles. The same was rumoured for Eko.

The whole thing with Walt seemed to take them by suprise. The oversight that the actor was aging faster than the character led to Michael and Walt being written out of the show.

It's rumoured that Nikki and Paulo were set to play bigger roles but were killed off due to public dislike of the characters.


Seems that they DO change and switch things. Seems that quite a few things are made up on the fly to me. Still...brilliant show!
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:33 AM   #288
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Exactly.
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:41 AM   #289
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Mostly alot of the larger ideas were worked out...crash on an island that is mysterious, there is some band of others, there will be a hatch, etc...but over the course of writing it, they had to figure out who the main players would be and who would fit into where.

They can still retain the ideas while changing the interactions between the characters.

And yes Jack was supposed to die in the pilot episode, but that was well before they had really cast anyone, so its not like that was a last minute "oh hes good lets keep him"

Also, the actor who played Walt didnt want to be on the show anymore. Niether did Mr. Eko, who even requested they kill him off earlier than planned.

The biggest change the story they made I think is Nikki and Paolo. But luckily they cut the chord on them before they really got invovled.
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Old 04-24-2007, 09:48 AM   #290
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Walt and Eko are bastards. Why would you not want to be on the biggest TV show in the world and live permanently in Hawaii? lol
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Old 04-24-2007, 09:57 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwe2222
Mostly alot of the larger ideas were worked out...crash on an island that is mysterious, there is some band of others, there will be a hatch, etc...but over the course of writing it, they had to figure out who the main players would be and who would fit into where.

They can still retain the ideas while changing the interactions between the characters.
I agree with that 100% but the guy I was responding to said that the character connections etc were planned. At least I think that's what he was trying to say.

Additonally it's the "tying together" that we're talking about. Shit, the outline could be as simple as you say above but at the end of the day it's about how these majot events are driven by the characters and the events that happen in their lives both prior to and since arriving on the island.

Quote:
And yes Jack was supposed to die in the pilot episode, but that was well before they had really cast anyone, so its not like that was a last minute "oh hes good lets keep him"
I didn't say that it was a last minute decision. I fully expect that they had very little planned out past the pilot as, as far as I am aware, the show could have been pulled after the pilot.

And I notice you didn't have a come back for the use of Ben (which was my main point really).

Quote:
Also, the actor who played Walt didnt want to be on the show anymore. Niether did Mr. Eko, who even requested they kill him off earlier than planned.
As I said (especially in regards to Eko) they were rumours. One of the other rumours was that the kid that played Walt was home sick and wanted to go home and that in true AAA style he didn't wanna stick around on a show too long.

Quote:
The biggest change the story they made I think is Nikki and Paolo. But luckily they cut the chord on them before they really got invovled.
But the producers could easily claim that that was their plan for them all along. I think N&P were bought in (at least in part) due to the loss of Ana Lucia, Libby and Eko. Once people disagreed with the way they were bought in and the portrayal of the character "The Powers That Be" decided to drop them.

Here's one I forgot...

Apparently once Desmond had ran off after leaving The Swan that was it for him. Due to his popularity he was brought back. Now he has this link with the island and has become one of the integral characters. How's that for an "on the fly" change of ideas?
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Old 04-24-2007, 10:00 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Avenger
Walt and Eko are bastards. Why would you not want to be on the biggest TV show in the world and live permanently in Hawaii? lol
AAA was the same with OZ. By all accounts he doesn't like being stuck on a show for too long. It seems, as did the producers of Oz, that the Lost producers managed to keep him a little longer than he wanted to stay anyway.

As for Walt, the guy's young and I dunno if his folks were there with him or not and due to the problem with him aging faster than the character I think the producers were happy to let him go rather than find a way to address the issue later on in the show.
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Old 04-24-2007, 11:08 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL
I agree with that 100% but the guy I was responding to said that the character connections etc were planned. At least I think that's what he was trying to say.

Additonally it's the "tying together" that we're talking about. Shit, the outline could be as simple as you say above but at the end of the day it's about how these majot events are driven by the characters and the events that happen in their lives both prior to and since arriving on the island.


I didn't say that it was a last minute decision. I fully expect that they had very little planned out past the pilot as, as far as I am aware, the show could have been pulled after the pilot.

And I notice you didn't have a come back for the use of Ben (which was my main point really).


As I said (especially in regards to Eko) they were rumours. One of the other rumours was that the kid that played Walt was home sick and wanted to go home and that in true AAA style he didn't wanna stick around on a show too long.


But the producers could easily claim that that was their plan for them all along. I think N&P were bought in (at least in part) due to the loss of Ana Lucia, Libby and Eko. Once people disagreed with the way they were bought in and the portrayal of the character "The Powers That Be" decided to drop them.

Here's one I forgot...

Apparently once Desmond had ran off after leaving The Swan that was it for him. Due to his popularity he was brought back. Now he has this link with the island and has become one of the integral characters. How's that for an "on the fly" change of ideas?
I never said they dont make on the fly changes...I just dont think alot of the on the fly changes affect the outcome of the show that dramatically...they knew there was going to be some kind of ben character leading the others, and they decided that the henry gale character should be it...again the same with Desmond...they may have decided that there would be a character would gain these powers and enjoyed Harry Ian Cusicks performance and decided that would be the guy...the overall story arc isnt changing, its just being filled in according to who they feel as the strongest players.
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Old 04-24-2007, 12:51 PM   #294
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LOL ok fair point Avenger. But then you can't say shit either, where is your proof that certain elements are not planned, they write 'on the spot' ey? lol everyone is quilty of this 'i read/heard/think because of...' bullshit.

Avenger, you said

......Also I love this show but if you are idiotic enough to believe that the character connections and story arcs were planned from the beginning you are more stupid than I thought . They make it up as they go along!

In response........


"In an address to "Casa del Cinema di Roma" in Italy, Damon Lindelof announced that he and JJ Abrams had initially conceived the LOST story-arc in 4 seasons. If ABC were to continue with Lost for a 5th season, both Lindelof and Abrams would possibly leave. [6] (source in Italian). "

http://www.tvblog.it/post/2524/lost-...attro-stagioni


- So there you have it, what I said is valid. In that planned 4 season arc, they have what will happen, who with and what it all means - as an initial idea, which is the opposite to what you think. That is a pre-planned big idea/plan, ok. Think its safe to assume that ideas and devices to tell the story of lost and its characters do have a core-plan, but like most things, they can/may get altered on the way.

I have also read certain elements and pieces are changed/made as they go along. What was trying to suggest, and will now is that there is a definate core story that the creators have in mind. With all the money and focus the show has, I doubt the network/production companies would be very content with such a high-profile show being a work of ideas and plans that are decided on the day of shooting on on the spot. Not to mention the obvious logistical and practical reasons of filming locations and what not.
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Old 04-24-2007, 12:57 PM   #295
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Dunno man that's all pretty in-depth. Just watch the show, enjoy it, then shut up.
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:17 PM   #296
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Whats pretty in-depth? - the 4 story arc thing? wtf?

I do watch the show, and I enjoy it very much cheers. With regards to the shut-up?...No. The hell are these 8 pages for if we can't discuss?
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:28 PM   #297
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lol
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:44 PM   #298
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:47 PM   #299
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done
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:53 PM   #300
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But is it?
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Old 04-24-2007, 02:22 PM   #301
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Huh!?

Obviously a lot of what we have said (Avenger, wwe222, Kano and myself) is speculation and rumour and third hand knowledge.

That's what makes a show like Lost so interesting.

Personally I hope they do have a plan for every thread of the story. For the whole mythology, for each character and how it all ties together.

However, there are indicators that perhaps my whole hearted hope is unfounded.

Regardless it's a stupid argument to be having between fans of the show.

Who cares if we think that some of it is made up on the spot. Who cares if you believe it's all written out neatly for each and every character?

Let's just stop the stoopid bickering and enjoy and discuss the actual show!

Peace & Love, my friends, Peace & Love!
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Old 04-24-2007, 03:34 PM   #302
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Huh!?

Obviously a lot of what we have said (Avenger, wwe222, Kano and myself) is speculation and rumour and third hand knowledge.

That's what makes a show like Lost so interesting.

Personally I hope they do have a plan for every thread of the story. For the whole mythology, for each character and how it all ties together.

However, there are indicators that perhaps my whole hearted hope is unfounded.

Regardless it's a stupid argument to be having between fans of the show.

Who cares if we think that some of it is made up on the spot. Who cares if you believe it's all written out neatly for each and every character?

Let's just stop the stoopid bickering and enjoy and discuss the actual show!

Peace & Love, my friends, Peace & Love!
i was trying to put the thumbs up icon, but its not working...but thumbs up
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:33 PM   #303
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Yeah I agree. But I am not the one calling someone an idiot for having an opposing opinion, then being proven wrong by that idiot.

I would probably lose respect, yet consider them extremly lucky if they didn't have a plan/idea/story from the get go since there are going to be some killer revelations, especially the overall 'what is the island' aspect.
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:35 PM   #304
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christ guys just enjoy the fucking show!
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:04 PM   #305
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Yeah I agree. But I am not the one calling someone an idiot for having an opposing opinion, then being proven wrong by that idiot.

I would probably lose respect, yet consider them extremly lucky if they didn't have a plan/idea/story from the get go since there are going to be some killer revelations, especially the overall 'what is the island' aspect.
idiot
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:04 PM   #306
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nahhhhhh jk BTW
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:40 PM   #307
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See how hard was that?

Again, its not that conclusive. Unless I see it on the Fuselage or something, or the episode that concludes otherwise, its all fanbased theory.

I just think the excuse 'an effect gone wrong' is false, since so much money, time and talent goes into the show, they wouldn't include it if they were not happy with it or what it would resonate in the future.

Like I said, its a controlled entity, a piece of debris wouldn;t fly/fall like that.

Revealing mistakes: When Hurley is making his mad rush for his plane he clearly and visibly runs past a doorway with the word "Kamehameha" visible at the top. Most of the airport footage is apparently shot at the convention center in Oahu. Roberts Hawaii buses are also very noticeable within shots in the background.


How did they miss that?
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:55 PM   #308
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I don't know, I'm not a crew member.

The post you quoted me on, I'm talking about a possible plot device. IF it is the black smoke monster flying past the engine, even if it isn't they could say it was, it relates to plot/story possibilities. It is very unlikely, while the special effects team are working on and going over each frame for effects that they would forget or put it in for no reason.

The fact that there is a continuity/location error, well I would assume thats a fault down to either the director, script supervisor, and/or location manager. I guess Abrams and Lindelof were in the writing room that day.
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Old 04-24-2007, 06:51 PM   #309
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My point is mistakes are made in movies and tv all the time, rather than it being a (very) subtle hint at some deeper storyline, it's is more likely a mistake. It's a little like 11/9 conspiracy theories, some people will believe anything.

But I do have the 1st epoisode on dvd so I'll have a look at it frame by frame, and in real time because the images posted here it looks like something more solid that the smoke monster.

But then stranger things have happened on this show.
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Old 04-24-2007, 06:57 PM   #310
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I hate Kate. Just throwing that out there.
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:33 PM   #311
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She looks good in her underwear tho'
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:40 PM   #312
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I get what you are saying, and what I am realising is that it can go both ways, I guess I'm just more inclined to go with it being the monster since LOST has a way of making you think one thing for what seems like an eternity, then BHAM!, its a totally different answer. In this case everyone will suggest that Desmond was responsible for the crash.....but in time BHAM!, its the monster, or whatever/if something controls it.

If I were to criticise my suggestion in relation to your last point, I would say thats its NOT as solid as the smoke monster. Its pure thick black smoke, its only really transparent when it analysed Eko. RIP Eko


Quite hot for Juliet yinno. Shes a babe.
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:53 PM   #313
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Quite hot for Juliet yinno. Shes a babe.
Juliette is a babe...i didnt realize until recently she was the other girl in the lesbian scene with Angelina Jolie in Gia
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:20 PM   #314
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Was anyone else hoping something of the lesbos ethos was gonna happen when her and Kate were scrapping/covered in mud?

Only seen pics of her in Gia, waaaay hot
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Old 04-24-2007, 09:35 PM   #315
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Quote:
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Was anyone else hoping something of the lesbos ethos was gonna happen when her and Kate were scrapping/covered in mud?

Only seen pics of her in Gia, waaaay hot
in case you wanted to watch it...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/140718...beth_mitchell/
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Old 04-25-2007, 01:20 AM   #316
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HA HA awesome
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Old 04-25-2007, 07:47 AM   #317
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haught
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Old 04-25-2007, 08:01 AM   #318
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With regards to the earlier discussion.

I think the writers and producers have a beginning, middle and end to the show, and idea's on what to do with certain key characters at certain times, but I also think they have to think on the fly sometimes as well.

So I fully expect that they had a finish before they started this and knew generally how they were going to get there, they just have to change the path they were on to get to the finish.

Oh and if this end's in peace, I'm going to start cutting people.
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Old 04-25-2007, 09:25 PM   #319
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*************WARNING SPOILERS**********


this is how it will end (according to Me.com)

The people on the beach will eventually have a massive battle with "the others", taking the fight right up to them and eventually winning. Then the people on the beach willtake over the habitat where the others have been living, Jack will assume the role of leader and will become more like Ben, manipulating his "followers" in the name of medical science. This time a ship will run aground on the island, get destroyed by fire (or that flying thing in the first episode that caused the planes engine to explode), and a whole new group of people will be LOST!
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:02 PM   #320
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Are you serious? I don't mean that in a pisstake way, I mean it, it that your real theory? Its not half bad, just dunno about the Losties becomming like The Others. I also think there will be a showdown, but at the end of this season.
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