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Old 02-21-2010, 12:04 PM   #361
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DO NOT use these numbers in the lottery, you will open the box!
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:11 PM   #362
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I didnt win.
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:12 PM   #363
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Besides, you would have to split it a bajillion ways
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:25 PM   #364
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I was thinking about Jacob's lists and his off-island meetings with our main cast a couple weeks back.

I though there might be something in the fact that he touched Kate and Sawyer at a very young age and Jack and Jin/Sun before they reached the island, he didn't touch Hurley or Sayid until after they had returned (to the "real world").

Were Hurley and Sayid not "first picks"? Did Jacob pick them cos others had already proven not to be "candidates"? Did he need to recruit them to help get his "first" picks back to the island.

Midly interesting that at the end of Season 2 Michael takes Jack, Kate and Sawyer to The Others (all people touched before the crash) but sent Hurley back as he was surplus to requirements. Strange bit of corolation there (with the exception of the Kwon's not being involved).

Mind you, Ben never spoke to Jacob so his list might have nothing to do with Jacob's/The Cave (unless Richard passed the list on).

Last edited by XL; 02-21-2010 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 02-21-2010, 01:11 PM   #365
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You do mean Jacob didn't touch Hurley and Sayid until after they returned to the real world right?


And here is the thing I think EVERYONE could be missing, and I actually think they are and the average viewer doesn't actually realise the significance of what's going on...

EVERYTHING that has happened, from the crash, to lists, to finding things, signs, missions and effects of everything that has happened are ALL results of BOTH Jacob and the MIB's planning and manipulation. Jacob knew he was going to be 'killed', he is if not one step ahead of the game, he is in unison with the MIB, with his own game plan being executed. MIB however seems to have no idea of Jacob's exact plans, but he knows something is going on since, 'they're coming' vexed him.
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Old 02-21-2010, 08:41 PM   #366
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I dfont pay attention to when they were touched chronoligically, but what they were like at the time.

Each time he touched someone it set them on a path to the island, or at least kep them on the path.

Sawyer -Sets him on his path of revenge that takes him to Australia

jack - keeps him going as a doctor

Sayid - Saves his life by not being hit

Hate - allows her to continue her rebllious ways

Locke - saves his life and makes him live in a chair that takes him to his walkabout

and Hurley, who he literally sends to the island
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:12 PM   #367
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I dfont pay attention to when they were touched chronoligically, but what they were like at the time.

Each time he touched someone it set them on a path to the island, or at least kep them on the path.

Sawyer -Sets him on his path of revenge that takes him to Australia

jack - keeps him going as a doctor

Sayid - Saves his life by not being hit

Hate - allows her to continue her rebllious ways

Locke - saves his life and makes him live in a chair that takes him to his walkabout

and Hurley, who he literally sends to the island
I thought of Sayid as maybe... he LET the girl get hit.. maybe Sayid would have been paying better attention otherwise. So the girl was keeping him there.. and her dying led him to do different things.
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:18 PM   #368
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Yeah, but also other factors contribute to everything you have just mentioned. That's what I like about it - the fact that all these random and occurring chain of events have created this situation (the random/luck/cause and effect aspects of existence) and as well Jacob's/MIB's planning, coercion and will.

Like I with one example you made - Jacob does save Locke from death, and confines him to a chair, yet it was Matthew Abbonon that convinced him to go, who works for Widmore, who was exiled from the Island by Ben because Widmore was 'breaking the rules', an incident which stemmed from Ben refusing to Kill Alex as a baby, who was only there on the Island because the French team landed there, an arrival that Jacob could've allowed/planned to happen like he did with The Black Rock.
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:19 PM   #369
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I thought of Sayid as maybe... he LET the girl get hit.. maybe Sayid would have been paying better attention otherwise. So the girl was keeping him there.. and her dying led him to do different things.
Nadia had to die, Jacob knew she would, and he knew she had to. Because if he didn't, he wouldn't of had a reason to go back to the Island, and help the O6 regroup and return.
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Old 02-21-2010, 10:52 PM   #370
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So perhaps the rule change from Widmroe to ben was passed down by MIB who had taken over the cabin...broken ash and all.

This is why ben never truly saw jacob
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Old 02-22-2010, 04:24 AM   #371
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Hmmmm....I dunno. I'm not saying I'm right by all means, but I just got this feeling Jacob's plan is the same as MIB's, which wouldn't make him too suspicious or aware of what he is able to do. So like, Ben never actually seeing Jacob, that was Jacob's will and wish from the beginning because he knew that if he had had contact with Ben, the events that lead them to this point wouldn't happen, and thus his eventual end game and potential 'win' would not have a chance of happening.

I have NO idea what the deal with the ash is at all. Other than the idea that it would make less sense if it were just 'ash', and that indeed, the ash Brom used in the tomb in the LA X episode and the ash used for the cabin is the ash of the dead. There must be something about the smoke monster, which is some kind of 'judging/death entity' that although is all about dead, is however hindered by the ash of the dead.

And with regard to the cabin, I had a thought a while ago that maybe we got it wrong, maybe the ash around the cabin wasn't to keep the monster out, but to keep it locked in the cabin. But then it's been free roaming since season 1. But then maybe the smoke monster is both Jacob and MIB, since although Eko said when he looked into it he saw darkness, whereas Locke said he saw a 'beautiful white light'. But again, that could've just been a ploy by the MIB as the smoke monster to lure Locke into a trap. But THEN at the same time, a plan like that wasn't part of his 'loophole' plan.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:37 AM   #372
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alright wheres FA i wanna post some spoilers
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:31 AM   #373
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alright wheres FA i wanna post some spoilers
I don't think spoiling it for him will make any difference as he doesn't seem to actually have a clue what's going on anyway.

Anyway yeah, another solid episode but with not much overall happening I thought. These somewhat slower episodes seem to be setting everything up for a big finale though.

Although not one of the main mysteries of the show I really was hoping for a better solution to the Adam & Eve skeletons in the caves rather than their usual Hurley nod.
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:43 AM   #374
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What's to say that's the solution?

Also, I don't get how the episode was uneventful. Some very big things happened. Much more is happening in these episodes than ever really happened before.
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Old 02-24-2010, 04:05 AM   #375
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I honestly don't think they'll necessarily answer about the skeletons and they'll just leave us to come up with our own interpretation, using what Hurley said. Then again I could be wrong.

I'm not saying it was uneventful, actually, I don't really know what I was saying. Don't get me wrong I still loved every moment of it. I just feel as though there's still plenty to answer and we're running out of episodes in which to do so.
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Old 02-24-2010, 04:21 AM   #376
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Yea, I know what you mean. I think there's higher expectations for answers given it being the final season.
These episodes would be huge by season 4 or 5 standards even. For instance, the lighthouse was pretty big.
Generally they're just slowly pulling the curtain back on what The Island and Jacob are all about.

We've gotten an answer on the smoke monster already, and even some semblance of one for the numbers. The numbers are actually something they probably won't fully answer. They're just a significant set of numbers that continually occur in different places on the island, and why that happens is something to be kept a mystery.
The final candidates being listed as those numbers is probably the most meaningful usage of them yet, though.

I don't think there's really a shit ton of the old lingering mysteries left to deal with. Other than "what is the island" and stuff involving Richard.
I think the big questions are the ones that are currently being raised, and that's sort of evolving every week.
The whole story of the island, and Jacob/MIB is obviously a "mystery" that will take a long time to reveal. Plus the alternate reality. We have absolutely no idea where that's going, or how it will be resolved.
I have been noticing the subtle moments of deja vu, or shaky memory that the characters experience from time to time.

I'm drawing a blank right now. What were some of the big mysteries going into this season other than the smoke monster, Richard, and Jacob/MIB?

I guess the skeletons and numbers too, though like you said the skeletons might remain ambiguous. I think the numbers definitely will, and I'm cool with that.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:16 AM   #377
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Yeah I pretty much agree with the majority of what you said there, I'm quite happy with some things being left to our own interpretations.

To go back to this specific episodes, the whole seeing Jacks house in the mirror thing was pretty interesting. Also I bet that Jacks son winds up being the son of somebody else we already know. Just seems a bit strange that they didn't even mention Sarah, and what with everybodys lives still intertwining I wouldn't be surprised if it's someone else we already know.

Oh and this season needs more Ben.
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:03 AM   #378
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Wonder what, if anything, would've been revealed at 108 degrees?
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:13 AM   #379
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So here is a good question.

It seems like every "degree" on that dial goes to a number. So Jacob could watch his candidates. ANd we know each person has a number.

Jack was 23. They were going to turn it to 108. WHo is that? WHo is coming?
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:14 AM   #380
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Wonder what, if anything, would've been revealed at 108 degrees?
beat me to it. I need to refresh
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:17 AM   #381
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Remember, the numbers add up to 108. Jacob said someone was coming to the island. Maybe someone who will unite the last of the candidates against Smokey?
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:38 AM   #382
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Check this out

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates


SOme guy named Wallace?
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:52 AM   #383
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aaron maybe?.... also maybe the numbers are just the set collection of what the candidates numbers are put together.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:40 PM   #384
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Yeah I pretty much agree with the majority of what you said there, I'm quite happy with some things being left to our own interpretations.

To go back to this specific episodes, the whole seeing Jacks house in the mirror thing was pretty interesting. Also I bet that Jacks son winds up being the son of somebody else we already know. Just seems a bit strange that they didn't even mention Sarah, and what with everybodys lives still intertwining I wouldn't be surprised if it's someone else we already know.

Oh and this season needs more Ben.
Yea I figured that too. It's probably going to someone like Juliet
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:48 PM   #385
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aaron maybe?.... also maybe the numbers are just the set collection of what the candidates numbers are put together.
The name Littleton is crossed out. This could be Claire, though.


The name Austen is not crossed out, but that's most likey Kate.

Either way, the name in question is at 108, and it's Wallace. If it's a new character of some kind, it's probably William Atherton aka Walter Peck.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:01 PM   #386
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Yea, I know what you mean. I think there's higher expectations for answers given it being the final season.
These episodes would be huge by season 4 or 5 standards even. For instance, the lighthouse was pretty big.
Generally they're just slowly pulling the curtain back on what The Island and Jacob are all about.

We've gotten an answer on the smoke monster already, and even some semblance of one for the numbers. The numbers are actually something they probably won't fully answer. They're just a significant set of numbers that continually occur in different places on the island, and why that happens is something to be kept a mystery.
The final candidates being listed as those numbers is probably the most meaningful usage of them yet, though.

I don't think there's really a shit ton of the old lingering mysteries left to deal with. Other than "what is the island" and stuff involving Richard.
I think the big questions are the ones that are currently being raised, and that's sort of evolving every week.
The whole story of the island, and Jacob/MIB is obviously a "mystery" that will take a long time to reveal. Plus the alternate reality. We have absolutely no idea where that's going, or how it will be resolved.
I have been noticing the subtle moments of deja vu, or shaky memory that the characters experience from time to time.

I'm drawing a blank right now. What were some of the big mysteries going into this season other than the smoke monster, Richard, and Jacob/MIB?

I guess the skeletons and numbers too, though like you said the skeletons might remain ambiguous. I think the numbers definitely will, and I'm cool with that.
yea, I AGREE. My wife keeps complaining that they are not answering anything. Yes, they are, but like you said, a lot of the little things from back in the day may never get answered.

Like did the Polar Bear thing from season 1 or 2 ever get explained. just a random one I had in my head.


I really enjoyed the last 2 episodes of this season. It's starting to come together nicely.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:02 PM   #387
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oh and does anyone else have a hard time remembering stuff from past seasons. I draw so many blanks.

Like last night I could not figure out how Aaaron got seperated from Claire in the first place?
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:04 PM   #388
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They never really answered the polar bear thing. I think we're just left to assume that they were using them for experiments on the second island (the bear cages where they stashed Sawyer and Kate).
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:33 PM   #389
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I always wondered if Polar Bears were used to turn the wheel, due to their ability to withstand cold temperatures.

I don't think anything indicates this was going on though. Dharama build around the wheel chamber, and didn't seem to be actually using it, but rather manipulating the pocket.

I guess they were just being used for tests. Maybe they were easy to acquire illegally in the area?
Maybe they just wanted to see how well they adapted to the climate?

Most likely it was probably the writers choosing them because they'd provide the initial mystery of "a polar creature on a tropical island. that's strange."
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:04 PM   #390
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Yeah you are correct, they were answered yonks ago. In the DHARMA videos from season 2, it explains they were experimenting with different animals and how they can adapt and live in different climates to that which they are used to. From the north and south poles in the cold, to the blistering heat of the Tunisian desert - the exit point of the frozen donkey wheel. Yes, they were caged on Hydra Island, but polar bears are like one of the most capable swimmers of the mammal species.

The newest episode was pretty good, nothing major though.

And yeah, I agree, things are getting answered all the time, but still in a LOST kind of fashion. Yes we now know about the 'candidates', but seriously, and I don't care, it was obvious from even when Locke made many of his famous 'destiny' speeches in the first season that they were all bought there for a reason, we know the reason is because they are candidates for something, that 'a war' is coming, that Jacob and MIB have great interest in these 'pieces' on their chess board. We we still don't know exactly what the battle is for - existence? good vs evil? fate vs free will? - everything most likely.

One idea I had today, was that after everything, Widmore is 'the good one'. I had this thought that if it really was the will of the island that Alex (as a baby) was to be killed, maybe it wasn't the will of the Island. What if it was the will of the MIB or Jacob? - if it was the will of the MIB, there would be a reason for it, as there would with Jacob. And if it were the will of Jacob, maybe it was so that a different chain of events concerning Ben and Widmore would've unfolded, which would ultimately change and effect the situation now, more specifically, the MIB's loophole. I dunno.

Despite the 'wallace' name. I still think it's Desmond or Widmore who are arriving to the Island. At least I hope it is.
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:13 PM   #391
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Was saying from when we first heard of the Widmore/Ben 'battle' that I thought maybe/hoped Widmore would turn out to be the good one. Not so sure now.
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:16 PM   #392
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It's hard to say, and a lot to look at. He seems to know about Jacob and MIB. In the episode 'The Life and Times of Jeremy Benthom', he told Locke a 'war was coming' and if John wasn't back on the Island, the wrong side would win.

If he was on Jacob's side, he would know Locke was a candidate for Jacob and maybe that's why he wanted to help him. OR, he knew he would be killed and/or possessed by the MIB. Even though bad things have happened, and been asked of, anything could be of the will and wish of Jacob or MIB.
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Old 02-25-2010, 02:52 AM   #393
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I think it will be Walt. He seemed somewhat special and I think its odd he was just written out. Plus the ominous way locke told him about the fight between light and dark in like the second episode. Walt had strange things happen around him. I think it will be him.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:13 AM   #394
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The 'Wallace' name doesn't really mean anything anyway. It's the number that is important, and not so much in this context anymore since the mirrors were smashed by Jack. There is still a possibility that whoever is coming to the Island is NOT coming from either of their reality, dimension or planet.

Although he is not really a fave character of mine, I do love Jack's journey. How he is a man of science, through and through - yet we get these little moments of epicness and confrontation with himself and others where Matthew Fox really sells how his character is battling this thing inside of him where at first he denies the Island is even special - Season 1 finale, then the conversation with Locke at the Orchid during the Season 4 finale where Locke says, 'You know Jack, you know!' , there's this faint look of belief in his eyes. Then he begins to believe, and he comes back. And now, although he knows there is something special, he doubts that it's special enough for himself.
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Old 02-25-2010, 12:40 PM   #395
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No way is it Walt
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:47 PM   #396
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Yeah you are correct, they were answered yonks ago. In the DHARMA videos from season 2, it explains they were experimenting with different animals and how they can adapt and live in different climates to that which they are used to. From the north and south poles in the cold, to the blistering heat of the Tunisian desert - the exit point of the frozen donkey wheel. Yes, they were caged on Hydra Island, but polar bears are like one of the most capable swimmers of the mammal species.

The newest episode was pretty good, nothing major though.

And yeah, I agree, things are getting answered all the time, but still in a LOST kind of fashion. Yes we now know about the 'candidates', but seriously, and I don't care, it was obvious from even when Locke made many of his famous 'destiny' speeches in the first season that they were all bought there for a reason, we know the reason is because they are candidates for something, that 'a war' is coming, that Jacob and MIB have great interest in these 'pieces' on their chess board. We we still don't know exactly what the battle is for - existence? good vs evil? fate vs free will? - everything most likely.

One idea I had today, was that after everything, Widmore is 'the good one'. I had this thought that if it really was the will of the island that Alex (as a baby) was to be killed, maybe it wasn't the will of the Island. What if it was the will of the MIB or Jacob? - if it was the will of the MIB, there would be a reason for it, as there would with Jacob. And if it were the will of Jacob, maybe it was so that a different chain of events concerning Ben and Widmore would've unfolded, which would ultimately change and effect the situation now, more specifically, the MIB's loophole. I dunno.

Despite the 'wallace' name. I still think it's Desmond or Widmore who are arriving to the Island. At least I hope it is.

I don't know how you can remember all the past stuff and specific episdes. unless you read a lot through the Lost encyclopedia's or whatever. That's what I probably have to do when I have an hour to kill
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:52 PM   #397
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Because I am a geek for the show through and through. Think only the Sopranos has come as close as LOST. But ever since I saw the first season, it's like the show was made for me, like you know how there are songs you feel personify something big inside your head or from inside. I am also interested in philosophy, existence and mystery. This is the show for me. And I have seen every episode many, many times and I just seem to remember everything.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:29 PM   #398
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This may have already been mentioned but I just remembered something last night. The Valterzzi (sp?) equation said there was 100% certainty that the world would end in the next 27 years.

Wasnt that equation done in 1977? which would make the date the year 2004 (when the plane crashed on the island I think was Sept 22nd/2004)

I wonder if there is any reason to think that the guy who worked that out somehow foreseen the bomb going off in 1977?

Perhaps the bomb going off in 1977, just as the island moved through time helped cause the plane to crash on the island.

This is submitted to Kano for verification as he knows everything about the show including the color underwear kate wore in the last episode.
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:12 PM   #399
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I don't know how you can remember all the past stuff and specific episdes. unless you read a lot through the Lost encyclopedia's or whatever. That's what I probably have to do when I have an hour to kill
I guess you just have to really be into it. Similar to how some wrestling fans can remember title histories and what happened in what months and years, and shit like that.

I pretty much remember everything from Lost, and I don't read about it. I've watched it all the way through twice though. I'm sure that helped.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:28 PM   #400
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My mates (who watch it, which are not many) can't keep up when I go into detail about all the connections through different methods, studies and aspects of mythology...like the other day me and my friend were going over how Jacob touched all of his candidates (Locke, Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sawyer, Jin & Sun at least) and he picked up on how Jacob handed Jack an Apollo candy bar. He referred to it as the same candy bar in the Swan food supply. But they didn't think it was worth thinking about the fact that the god Apollo is more often than now dipicted with a staff and arrow, two of the other Dharma stations. And they are right really, but I love stuff like that no matter how minor.
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