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Reload this Page Should Orton win at Mania to lose to Miz?
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Yes 4 21.05%
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:17 AM   #41
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As for Ziggler, I think he's much better in the ring than Miz, has got a better look and I remember his fired up promos more than Miz's usual shticky talking segments he does every week. Ziggler is also missing something though. Less than what Miz is though.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:19 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
He's getting cheered on the mic now. You just put him against people the fans boo. That's basically anybody that's not AJ Styles and is against AJ Styles. The guy is already a babyface, they're just fighting it.
Yeah but I also remember the lack of "oomph" he had on the mic when he started his face run in the WWE.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:20 AM   #43
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They'll probably script him to be lame duck. That would be a shame. They should just push him as he is now and play it off as a hero's welcome. I mean, they removed him from The Club and they had him beat Cena basically clean. They were setting the table for him to earn the fans' respect.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:20 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
As for Ziggler, I think he's much better in the ring than Miz, has got a better look and I remember his fired up promos more than Miz's usual shticky talking segments he does every week. Ziggler is also missing something though. Less than what Miz is though.
I remember Ziggler screaming.... But that's about it.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:21 AM   #45
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That's like every Miz Talking Smack promo.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:21 AM   #46
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"I don't get hurt! I am here all the time! You are hurt! You aren't as good as me!"

It's good, don't get me wrong, but there were people on here comparing it to Hard Times. Really? Really?
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:21 AM   #47
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Miz makes actual points though, Ziggler just says shit.

"I KNOW IF I HAVE JUST ONE CHANCE THAT WOULD BE ALL I NEED!"
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:31 AM   #48
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Ziggler makes plenty of points about his passion and how far he is willing to go.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:31 AM   #49
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The Miz as WWE Champion is still far less exciting than so many things they could do.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:34 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Ziggler makes plenty of points about his passion and how far he is willing to go.
Yeah and then he loses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
The Miz as WWE Champion is still far less exciting than so many things they could do.
I don't see it, enlighten me.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:39 AM   #51
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Zigglers promos are pretty much "I put on the best match every night, etc"

It's like ok but you are losing those matches. If a football team loses in 'overtime' every week cool it was a great game to watch but you are still 0-16.

He should be cutting that promo to Vince, not the fans.
Last edited by Big Vic; 02-09-2017 at 01:40 PM. Reason: fixed typo
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:30 PM   #52
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No, I don't think Orton or Miz should be champ right now. Orton is so boring he shouldn't win the gold at Mania; I don't mind Orton as Champ just not at the big 4 PPVs. Miz could be a transitional champ between ppvs like Orton, but Miz is an IC champ nothing more.
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:47 PM   #53
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How can people knock Ziggler down for the booking following his promos and then elevate The Miz who has basically been a mid-carder of the same order? I don't get that logic.
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:51 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
I don't see it, enlighten me.
John Cena
AJ Styles
Bray Wyatt
Goldberg
Brock Lesnar
The Undertaker
Roman Reigns
Samoa Joe
Baron Corbin
Braun Strowman
Kevin Owens
Chris Jericho
Randy Orton
Luke Harper
The Rock even when he's not there
Hulk Hogan when he eventually comes back
Fucking Kane
Seth Freakin' Rollins
Finn Balor
Probably Sheamus
Even Big Show
Definitely Triple H
Maybe Dean Ambrose
Charlotte
Nia Jax
Alexa Bliss

That is a list of guys more important than The Miz in the WWE right now. Some of them are truthfully probably equal but simply working higher on the card. Why would you put the WWE Title on a mid-carder and have him jump so far above that list of talent? Stop fucking with nature.
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:53 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
No, I don't think Orton or Miz should be champ right now. Orton is so boring he shouldn't win the gold at Mania; I don't mind Orton as Champ just not at the big 4 PPVs. Miz could be a transitional champ between ppvs like Orton, but Miz is an IC champ nothing more.
Someone gets it.

Orton winning the WWE Title sometime in the middle of the year and that causing friction between him and Bray to main event a SmackDown exclusive PPV would be fine, but something about it feels wrong for a WrestleMania main event.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:54 PM   #56
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Noid, you put Boring Corbin on that list. Really? Dude is so god aweful.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:55 PM   #57
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I also assume the second half of that list is a joke right? But seriously, fuck Boring Corbin.
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Old 02-10-2017, 08:58 AM   #58
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of course it is, big show....Kane?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
No, I don't think Orton or Miz should be champ right now. Orton is so boring he shouldn't win the gold at Mania; I don't mind Orton as Champ just not at the big 4 PPVs. Miz could be a transitional champ between ppvs like Orton...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Someone gets it.
Last edited by Big Vic; 02-10-2017 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:04 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
How can people knock Ziggler down for the booking following his promos and then elevate The Miz who has basically been a mid-carder of the same order? I don't get that logic.
Because his promos were stating how he was better and deserved more opportunities because he had great matches.............which he lost.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:01 AM   #60
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Yeah Ziggler has always seemed like a jobber. He was jobbing to Vickie when he was world champ, I don't get the Ziggler hype at all. Maybe his name and whiney voice hurt him too much from the beginning but god that guy is lame
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:55 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
Noid, you put Boring Corbin on that list. Really? Dude is so god aweful.
I don't like Corbin, but that's not really my point. My point is that if they booked Corbin vs. Miz, they'd probably use Miz's smugness to put over Corbin as a heel you should actually believe in.
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:58 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
Because his promos were stating how he was better and deserved more opportunities because he had great matches.............which he lost.
Miz loses all the time. I really don't get your point here. I'm not saying Ziggler has been booked anything other than shit (he's the heel heading into a Handicap Match against babyfaces for crying out loud), but this idea that Miz's promos somehow have a better payoff is just ridiculous.

And as for Stickman's quote, really look at what Stickman is saying.
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:59 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
Yeah Ziggler has always seemed like a jobber. He was jobbing to Vickie when he was world champ, I don't get the Ziggler hype at all. Maybe his name and whiney voice hurt him too much from the beginning but god that guy is lame
He hasn't been the same since he turned babyface originally. He's one of those dudes, in the territory days, would have gone somewhere else by now so he can come back fresh. If there's a dude that could use a vacation, it's Dolph. It's hard to get enthused about the guy, and his heel run is already stale.
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Old 02-11-2017, 04:19 PM   #64
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Dolph really should've left when his contract was last up. He could've used working the indys as a refresher for him while still staying outta the mainstream public.
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Old 02-11-2017, 04:24 PM   #65
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Really dislike when people say someone should go to the indy scene. Why would anyone want to make less money if they are happy where they are at?
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Old 02-11-2017, 04:34 PM   #66
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There's a logic to going so that you can come back for more money though. It's not a sure thing, but if you've got money saved there's a creative aspect to entertain too. Personal satisfaction versus financial security is a very real internal debate.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:22 AM   #67
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Dolph would get top dollar working the independents, work less dates, and broaden his portfolio. I'm sure Cody isn't hurting for cash bouncing between TNA, NJPW, ROH and the other indy feds he's frequented.

Maybe he won't get the same guarantees he gets with the E but I don't think he'd be underpaid. And like Noid said , there's an opportunity for him to do his own thing.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:31 AM   #68
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Cody left because he was unhappy though. He wanted to work the Indy scene. He didn't do it to refresh his character.

I don't know shit about how much wrestlers make, just seems like WWE will be the ones to pay top dollar regularly.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:34 AM   #69
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Going to see Rhodes. Paid 20 bucks for front row seats.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:37 AM   #70
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Would you mind asking him what he made in the WWE and the Indy scene please?
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:44 AM   #71
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Ziggler could be just as unhappy. Maybe he just says fuck it and takes the money. I'm sure there's more than a few guys that just take the money
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Old 02-12-2017, 01:27 AM   #72
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Would you mind asking him what he made in the WWE and the Indy scene please?
No, I'm friends with his agent. I'm not asking him that.
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Old 02-12-2017, 02:09 AM   #73
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First off I'd like start by saying fuck you to everyone who doesn't see that KO is incredible.

Secondly....No. Orton needs to lose at WM. Bray absolutely NEEDS that win or they may as well retool him. I love Bray but he can only get by so long with the way he's been booked the last couple years. This is the time to pull the trigger on him and see if he can bring back the hype from his early main roster debut and actually draw as champion. A transitional run would be awful for him unless he won it right back and then held it.

Also that would be a probable 3 1 month transitional champs in a row. Cena, Bray, then Orton. No way they flip 3 different people over that fast with rematch clauses always being brought up. They are probably going to play off Cena's rematch as it stands no way they do that multiple times in a row.

This is the year of Bray damnit and he better hold the title til summer slam. And if he loses it around that time I hope they put it on Luke Harper.
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Old 02-12-2017, 04:24 AM   #74
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I'm not really that keen on them putting the WWE Title on Bray at all. Something about the timing just seems wrong. Let Cena run with it into Mania -- he is their top star and it is fitting he heads into Orlando as their real World Champion.

I do get why you might feel that Bray NEEDS to win, and this is why I feel that The Undertaker's WrestleMania streak has had some majorly negative effects on the business. We now look at a guy's win-loss record at WrestleMania and go against the grain of a story in order to change stats in a rigged sport. Edge went over Alberto Del Rio at WrestleMania 27 and Del Rio was done because they looked at Edge's Mania losing streak in recent years and thought "Hey, maybe we should give the guy a win?". They put Big Show over Cody the following year because he also had that terrible Mania record. That was sort of Big Show's job though -- be the obstacle that is overcome on the grand stage.

Jeff Hardy never won at a WrestleMania. Vince McMahon has never won at a WrestleMania. Big E has never won at a WrestleMania. Shawn Michaels' WrestleMania record is pretty atrocious. John Cena's SummerSlam record is 4-9. You don't need to go over at certain events to be a star. If the story calls for Bray to lose at WrestleMania, then he should lose. I'm personally holding out hope, beyond reason, that Bray puts over Harper at WrestleMania this year.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:00 PM   #75
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I don't know if Bray is championship material to be honest. I love the gimmick, I do agree he needs to win more than he loses, but I cant see him being a wrestlemania champion. He is a transitional short term champ if he ever gets it.
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Old 02-12-2017, 02:21 PM   #76
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I am definitely good with an Orton win. Would love to see him hang on to the belt at least until SummerSlam.

I also seem to be more of a fan of The Miz than most. I think he's gold on the mic, and has a look/charisma that harkens back to the 1980-Flair days. I understand he works safely in the ring, but that in no way makes him a less than stellar worker, IMO.

I would love to see him have a run. I see a feud between him and Orton working really well.
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Old 02-12-2017, 02:24 PM   #77
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I don't know if Bray is championship material to be honest. I love the gimmick, I do agree he needs to win more than he loses, but I cant see him being a wrestlemania champion. He is a transitional short term champ if he ever gets it.
I see your point. The good thing about Bray, if WWE actually books him correctly, is that he doesn't necessarily need title runs to be $$$. In my mind, he is this generation's Undertaker... just run some good, creative storylines with him, give him some amazing entrances and match types, sprinkle in a belt every once in a while, and he is, if I may use the term, money in the bank.
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:18 PM   #78
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I wasn't trying to make the point that Bray needs the win at wm or any specific event. I mean he just needs it in general. Orton damn sure doesn't need it, his role is permanently secure. Especially if you're gonna turn around and have him lose it to miz yet another month or 2 later.

I do agree that Bray should put over Harper but I think WM is too quick for that. We're going to have rowan back very soon and they will obviously build his involvement in that angle as well. That's why I think bray putting over Luke for the title at SS. The Wyatt gimmick has been awesome and the breakup of the family deserves proper build and attention.

Really though, the break up of the family is why wyatt needs the win. He may never be the biggest star, but they do need him to fill a role near the top of the card for the forsee able future. He's Been made to look like he relies in the family for everything so he needs this big moment so people will believe he is credible on his own after the split.
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:20 PM   #79
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Sorry for my grammar lately. My phone screen is spidered atm and I'm not dealing with my awful autocorrect transgressions any longer.
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