01-05-2014, 02:16 PM | #41 | |
Posts: 391
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Who exactly are the truly big stars left in the WWE apart from Cena? Punk doesn't come quite as close. Lesnar was never around long enough the first time around to really make an impact. Rey Mysterio had has moment in the spotlight but injuries plagued him. Randy Orton is in theory one wellness policy violation away from being fired. We need more time to see the Wyatts and Shield individually I reckon. Barett, Ziggler, Swagger and Del Rio peaked and are now back to mid carders. Doubt we'll ever see the likes of Kofi or R Truth competing for the main events, McMahon would squirm at the though of a black guy holding the wwe title the closet racist that he is. |
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01-05-2014, 02:20 PM | #42 |
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You said.. ''theres no truely decent talent''
You've now changed that to 'True Superstar Quality talent' Theres a world of difference in those two statements... |
01-05-2014, 02:49 PM | #43 | |
Posts: 391
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But then when we talk about truly superstar quality then who is there really apart from John Cena? He's the only one on the roster who is of any note in the mainstream and the true face of the company. Cm Punk comes a very close second. Lesnar was never around long enough the first time and neither the second time to truly endear himself to the fans. It remains to be seen what Batista will do upon his return. Undertaker should retire rather than strain himself for the one match a year. Daniel Bryan has the skills and generates a certain buzz from the crowd but is he really someone who has or will take the company to greater heights? Same with Randy Orton. Both great wrestlers but not quite the brand names. Going back the Triple H comments for those who claim he was the real deal ok imagine if there hadn't been an Austin, Rock, undertaker or HBK and Triple H was then by default the biggest star, do you still think WWE would have been a s popular as it was? |
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01-05-2014, 03:01 PM | #44 |
Taller than Adam Cole
Posts: 10,873
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*grabs some popcorn for the tard-fight*
A counter point to the whole second and third generation thing: 80% of the time, the cream rises to the top. The better ones you don't even have to mention that their father was a star, except in passing. Folks like Randy Savage, Ted DiBiase Sr., Finlay, Jake "The Snake" Roberts, Barry Windham, Mr. Perfect. The Rock took a while to get there, but eventually did, and was one of the biggest of all time. On the other hand, you had folks like David Flair, David Sammartino, Erik Watts, Kendall Windham, Greg Gagne, Brian Christopher, and to an extent Jeff Jarrett who were missing that one vital thing to push them to the next level, despite their parentage, and despite the numbers of chances given. In fact, there's stories that the only reason Greg Gagne wasn't given the AWA World Title, despite missing that one vital thing, was that the board threatened to walk out on Verne if he did. Dustin Rhodes was actually fairly over in his own right in WCW. He was on the cusp, but wouldn't have hit that next level under his dad. So he became Goldust. Cody, on the other hand, is developing well, and stepping into his own as a worker. He may be bigger than his brother, or he may not. But he has the potential. Randy, is going to be a fun one for me to discuss. This board knows damn well what I think of him. As for the person dismissing the role of Bob Orton Jr., I'll say this. The guy's dad played a role in the main event of Wrestlemania. The first one. The one that started the whole thing. If you don't think Vince would strap a rocket to him on that reason alone, you're a fool. He went on to do decent in an era where there wasn't really a need for him to be anything other than decent. If he came in during the territory era, or even 20 years ago, I don't think he'd have made it as far as he has. He'd have either gotten over himself quickly or been run out on the business. |
01-05-2014, 03:12 PM | #45 |
Out Of Step
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My argument against Bob Orton is more his legacy in comparison to a Dibiase, Henning, Flair, if it was all down to the name you carried there are sons of bigger stars who would have gotten over bigger than Randy.
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01-05-2014, 03:41 PM | #46 |
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The fact is Randy Orton like Triple H are both overrated and hardly remarkable individuals and wwe still would have been big without them both.
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01-05-2014, 03:45 PM | #47 |
TPWW's HHH Mark Since '04
Posts: 29,886
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Hardly. Triple H helped keep the WWE afloat as its #1 heel when Austin and Taker got hurt, and again when several stars up and left WWE in the early 2000s. Would you argue that WWF didn't need Piper in the 80s? They might have been as big or as successful, but you cannot deny the importance of a talented and over heel in the main event.
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01-05-2014, 04:00 PM | #48 |
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Triple H was a great heel nothing more or less but he was never the man fans paid to see. Tbh we are going to have to agree to disagree. I stand by my assertion that in the words of his gimmick, triple h was at best a b grade superstar and never the face of the wwe. He may well end up in HOF but it won't be because he had a seismic impact on wrestling.
He's overrated in the vein of Nash and Hall who along with Bischoff think the world began and ended with the NWO when in fact the storyline got stale all too quickly and only ever had any credibility due to the presence of Hogan in the faction and his subsequent rivalries with Sting and dropping the belt to Goldberg. Nash ok I give him some credit at least he was a world champion in both but Hall? He's a world class drunk at best. |
01-05-2014, 04:02 PM | #49 |
Posts: 391
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Then again you can't say most in the HOF were revolutionaries or there on merit otherwise why Koko B Ware, Drew Carey or Jerry Lawler even?
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01-05-2014, 04:03 PM | #50 |
TPWW's HHH Mark Since '04
Posts: 29,886
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We need to agree that you have no idea what you are talking about and have no fucking clue about wrestling. "A great heel. Nothing more. Nothing less." I'm glad that being a great top heel is such an easy thing to do.
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01-05-2014, 04:10 PM | #51 |
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This is coming from the person who insert politically correct insult here, obsessed with Triple H like a fly is infatuated with a dung heap?
Apologies if that offends flies or excrement. Last edited by Bobo; 01-05-2014 at 05:01 PM. |
01-05-2014, 04:15 PM | #52 |
Posts: 391
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Compare Triple H with all the greats past and present and tell me if he really is up there with the likes of Hogan, Flair, Sting, Warrior, Macho Man, undertaker, Bret Hart, Mick Foley, iron sheikh, bob backlund, Rock, Austin, HBK, heck I would rate Cena, Goldberg and Eddie Gurerro above him. Clearly it pisses off one or two mother fuckers on here but I guess this what happens when you debate with inbred rednecks living in a trailer somewhere in Arkansas.
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01-05-2014, 04:27 PM | #53 |
the heartbreak king
Posts: 48,428
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goldberg above hhh? now THAT is rich.
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01-05-2014, 04:27 PM | #54 |
TPWW's HHH Mark Since '04
Posts: 29,886
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Bobo, why do you have this notion that anybody in wrestling who doesn't attain the level of success of a Flair, Hogan, Austin, Rock, or Cena is either a failure or not due a certain level of respect and admiration for their contributions to professional wrestling?
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01-05-2014, 04:39 PM | #55 | |
Posts: 391
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My point about Goldberg, he was a world champion in the two biggest wrestling promotions of all time. In the WCW days alongside Hogan and the NWO and Sting, his streak and white hot popularity were key to WCW trouncing WWE in the ratings. The fact that fans still chant his name on Raw some 9 years after he left is an indicator of just how popular and well regarded he was and still is. How many wrestlers can simply walk into the WWE and in their debut ppv do one on the Rock and then capture the world title in less than a year? Not many stars had that aura Goldberg did and it shows how highly regarded he was by WWE management that they would even contemplate allowing him to pick up a win over arguably the greatest superstar in pro wrestling in his debut ppv match. Goldberg was a big star in both WCW and WWE that's why I rate him highly. |
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01-05-2014, 04:42 PM | #56 |
TPWW's HHH Mark Since '04
Posts: 29,886
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Mr. Perfect was never more than a glorified midcarder (AWA was already dead when he won the belt). Is he not one of the "greats"?
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01-05-2014, 04:43 PM | #57 |
Out Of Step
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01-05-2014, 04:44 PM | #58 |
Posts: 391
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But no they are not failures as not everyone is going to be Hogan or Flair just like every Footballer isn't going to be Pele or Zidane, or every boxer an Ali or Robinson.
It just irks me that people claim HHH to be this blindingly shining bright superstar who somehow revolutionised pro wrestling and made the business what is to do when he was nowhere near that level. Yes he was a great and may well rank in the top 20 and certainly the top 30 of all time but the notion that he was and is one of the all time greats is just ridiculous. Ask yourselves if you think DX would have worked without HBK from the beginning or the NWO without Hogan. The likes of Levesque, Hall and Nash simply fed off their reputations rather than garnering any credit or kudos for themselves. |
01-05-2014, 04:45 PM | #59 |
TPWW's HHH Mark Since '04
Posts: 29,886
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Wow, your willful ignorance is truly astonishing.
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01-05-2014, 04:45 PM | #60 |
Out Of Step
Posts: 12,059
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And kindly explain the Elton John child abuse comment Bobo.
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01-05-2014, 04:45 PM | #61 | |
Posts: 391
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His untimely death no doubt gave him more credit than he deserved as was the case with Owen Hart who let's be honest was shit. |
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01-05-2014, 04:47 PM | #62 |
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I never said that about Warrior but yes he had athletic and technical ability up to about 1992 at least but his popularity was sky high on the level of hogan at his peak, triple h never enjoyed that kind of popularity or merchandise sales.
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01-05-2014, 04:47 PM | #63 |
Posts: 391
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01-05-2014, 04:48 PM | #64 |
Out Of Step
Posts: 12,059
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01-05-2014, 04:50 PM | #65 |
Posts: 391
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Because I don't rate Triple H as one of the all time greats doesn't make me ignorant or any more or less of a wrestling fan.
I never said the man was crap and worthless. Yes he had some skill and some ability and some charisma but he isn't on the level you appear to be elevating him to and I suspect many pro wrestling critics and experts would concur. Nobody can deny Triple H hasn't benefited both on and off screen by marrying into the McMahon family and to deny that would in fact be truly ignorant. |
01-05-2014, 04:52 PM | #66 |
Posts: 391
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01-05-2014, 04:54 PM | #67 |
Out Of Step
Posts: 12,059
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So homophobia then?
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01-05-2014, 04:58 PM | #68 |
Posts: 391
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Not really but you can't exactly accuse me of homophobia given the amount of casual racism posted on these forums by 'respected users' be it against black people or the anti Muslim comments re Inoki's conversion to Islam.
My comments weren't homophobic at all and like I said if I'm going to be accused of any sort of bigotry it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. |
01-05-2014, 05:00 PM | #69 |
Out Of Step
Posts: 12,059
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So why is he molesting a child? And because others post stuff like that isn't really an excuse unless you're a child, and even then a pitiful one.
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01-05-2014, 05:02 PM | #70 |
Posts: 391
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No but you can't berate me for making a lewd comment about Elton John when other users on here continually post racist remarks and do nothing about that unless of course you have some sort of hidden personalised agenda.
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01-05-2014, 05:03 PM | #71 |
the heartbreak king
Posts: 48,428
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01-05-2014, 05:05 PM | #72 |
the heartbreak king
Posts: 48,428
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you can, in fact, do this exact thing if you're not one of the vocal few that post this way, you big fucking dummy.
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01-05-2014, 05:06 PM | #73 |
Out Of Step
Posts: 12,059
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So you know you're in the wrong but are pointing the finger at everyone else? Congrats!
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01-05-2014, 05:11 PM | #74 |
Feeling Oof-y
Posts: 17,135
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Didn't we already do one of these threads about HHH?
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01-05-2014, 05:12 PM | #75 | |
the heartbreak king
Posts: 48,428
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01-05-2014, 05:12 PM | #76 |
Posts: 391
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Oh I'm sorry he was actually a really good wrestler so popular that his matches were legendary I mean the fact he fell to his death on live tv did nothing to mark him out as an undeserving legend? Seriously you must be the dumb fuck.
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01-05-2014, 05:14 PM | #77 |
Posts: 391
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01-05-2014, 05:14 PM | #78 |
Posts: 391
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01-05-2014, 05:15 PM | #79 |
Out Of Step
Posts: 12,059
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01-05-2014, 05:16 PM | #80 |
TPWW's HHH Mark Since '04
Posts: 29,886
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I feel like my "State Your Case" series of threads is a smash hit so far.
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