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Old 01-12-2012, 10:09 AM   #1
DTTS
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Waiting for Superman Cena

I have not been watching regularly and I admit that I don't see this changing between now and Wrestlemania, but what little I pick up and see baffles me greatly.

The impression I get from you guys and from watching is that Cena's main demographic is made up of young children and women. He gained these fans by transforming himself from a fake-rapper to a unbeatable squeaky clean superman.

Yet every time I see Cena he's getting the shit kicked out of him, barely surviving and kind of depressing. Even the WWE website is pushing him as someone on the verge of breaking. My question is simple...why?

Do Cena's fans want to see him struggle? I would say not.

Does getting beat up by guys like Kane and Mark Henry (whom the Rock defeated with ease back in the 90s) make anyone who doesn't already want to want to watch him fight the Rock?

I think that the WWE in an attempt to give Cena depth and humanize him have made a huge mistake in regards to the people who actually like him and for the fans who wanted to see him face the Rock at Wrestlemania. Nobody wants to see a titan like the Rock beat or lose to a guy who has been struggling for what seems like the last year or more.

The WWE should be building Cena up as unstoppable with only the likes of the Rock capable of putting him down. The boos aren't just getting louder because Cena is "stale", they're getting louder because he's not playing to his fans. This Rise Above the Hate campaign is great and all, but can't Cena rise above the hate and beat up all the bullies and monsters at the same time? Where's no-selling Super Cena? Wouldn't it be effective for the audience to see Cena go a year without losing to anyone and no-selling the shit out of a bunch of mid-carders and the occasional "main-eventer" and then getting leveled by The Rock? Isn't the focus of Wrestlemania this year supposed to be two iconic figures facing off in a battle for the ages?


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Old 01-12-2012, 10:37 AM   #2
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stultiloquy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)stultiloquy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)stultiloquy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)stultiloquy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)stultiloquy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)stultiloquy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)stultiloquy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)stultiloquy got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)
He has been getting the crap kicked out of him on a regular basis as of late, but it's usually to the tone of him getting destroyed for the entire match, and then coming out with the dreaded '5 moves of doom' and winning the match, all the while coming off as though the beating he's endured for the past 10 minutes or so never happened.

Not only that, but he's been pulling the invincible gimmick for the past 5 years or so, which I think is why they've decided to have the Superman veneer start showing some cracks now.

I do agree that he could use some momentum coming in to wrestlemania, and perhaps a heel turn will do just that.
That being said, I don't think he necessarily needs it, as his fans are going to be cheering for him just as rabidly as the anti-Cena crowd is going to be booing him.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:12 AM   #3
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See I don't think turning Cena heel is a good idea at all. I just think allowing him to get the shit beat out of him even with him all good to go after the match thanks this his regeneration stats is a bad idea when building up his grudge-match with Hollywood Rock.

If anything they should have had him be ridiculously hard to defeat. We need to see Cena kicking out of finishers + no-selling + fighting off multiple attacks so that people will either a) want to see him defeat the Rock in similar fashion b) see a monumental fight between two icons or c) want him to lose so fucking bad, that no-selling bad for the business PG asshole!!!!

Instead there's a lot of apathy towards the guy. He's got a case of the Xpac heat as we refer to it from time to time, where some people will boo you because they think you suck rather than because you're a bad guy.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:20 AM   #4
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Have we come to the conclusion that Cena is going over The Rock?
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:23 AM   #5
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DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
It doesn't matter what the outcome is.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:24 AM   #6
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DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Get it? "It doesn't matter..."
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:24 AM   #7
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DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)DTTS is so fly (s)he should be in the sky with diamonds (200,000+)
Because, you know, the Rock used to say, "It doesn't matter what your name is!" and people would totally laugh and cheer.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:02 PM   #8
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It has been weird seeing Cena lose alot. Although, we should start seeing him gaining momentum, especially if Rock is going to be on RAW most nights, whether it be through video or live. This fued with kane is a good filler really. It has an ok story and should give us a fairly decent match. Plus ryder will either come out a wimpy heel or a strong(er) face from his involvement.

Although if we are going to again look at the cena-heel turn......this is VERY good setup. Kane is calling him out on it over and over, and we are starting to see ryder blame cena for all the bad things happening to him. If kane gets under cena's skin and ryder just tells cena to screw off, then cena now has to admit that even the people he truly cares for dont like him. He will be forced to re-examine hiself and see if he really is the problem. Which at mania when rock is too much for him, he cheats to win and BOOM we get pissed off "im gonna be me and you all can suck it" cena......


or he just rises above the hate and wins it all
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:25 PM   #9
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I think the Rise Above Hate gimmick has fucked the entire situation, honestly. There is no fucking way that they're going to heel-turn Cena while he's the face of this PR Campaign. Not going to happen.

And again, a heel-turn wouldn't accomplish anything since in kayfabe the Rock is the asshole here. In kayfabe the Rock has been acting like a heel.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:35 PM   #10
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Wait, are you (DttS) advocating that Cena squash half the roster then lose/appear on par to a guy that has wrestled once in 7 years (in a tag match)?

Talk about "burying" the current roster.

Even if The Rock is a "superstar" in Hollywood, even if he is one of the biggest icons wrestling has ever seen, there is no good to come from that scenario.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:40 PM   #11
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Yes. That is what I'm advocating. It'd be a better story than this.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:42 PM   #12
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And I want Cena to be a squeaky-clean superman who never gives up and fights for America while he destroys the mid-card.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:53 PM   #13
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lol heel turn
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:55 PM   #14
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And I want Cena to be a squeaky-clean superman who never gives up and fights for America while he destroys the mid-card.
Isnt that what the Obama impersonator at Capital Punishment is for?
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:07 PM   #15
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Yes. That is what I'm advocating. It'd be a better story than this.
Hate to be a "super-smark, think about the business aspect over the storytelling" type, but is putting Cena over the entire roster (for a change) and then having Rock beat him a good idea in the long run?

Is it not saying "Hey look! This guy came back after 7 years and beat the guy that beat everybody else. Our current guys suck. LOL"?
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:17 PM   #16
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There should be a relatively small group of guys who can actually keep up with Cena (Punk, Orton, etc.) and everyone else either MAY be able to bring him to the brink of defeat on occasion or just isn't at his level yet. That's pretty much it. Cena should be winning about 90% of the time to justify his spot kayfabe-wise.

And also should definitely go over Rock.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:34 PM   #17
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Hate to be a "super-smark, think about the business aspect over the storytelling" type, but is putting Cena over the entire roster (for a change) and then having Rock beat him a good idea in the long run?

Is it not saying "Hey look! This guy came back after 7 years and beat the guy that beat everybody else. Our current guys suck. LOL"?
I'm not saying for the Rock to win, I'm saying it's inconsequential. If Rock wins you can have him do it via nefarious means. Imagine Austin coming out of nowhere and stunning Cena as he's about to hit the AA on the Rock if you're curious to how it could be done while keeping Cena "legit". Hell, they could even keep the whole Rise Above Hate gimmick going with him taking that shit sandwich and going with it. I'm not trying to armchair book this thing mind you...

Part of the problem, as I see it, is the PR Campaign has gotten turned into a storyline and it severely restricts the uncreative minds that write the shows. If it was just Super-Cena who was a clean-cut babyface going up against tweener-heel Hollywood Rock the match would be a lot more interesting.

As is, they're going to take a semi-retired wrestler who is still ridiculously over and job him to guy who has gotten the shit beaten out of him by Kane and Mark Henry. He looks weak because of it and yet, does anybody buy Cena as a legitimate underdog even with all the shit they've done to him?

Cena as underdog is as silly as Hogan as underdog in 1990. Smarks might want him to lose and be happy when he does, but it doesn't really make sense for him to be shown so weak, even to elevate Kane and Henry, right before they want to stick him in the Main Event of Wrestlemania. I assure you the kids don't want to see their hero get his ass beat for a year and neither do the ladies.

Why do kids like Cena? The same reason they like Superman...it's wish-projection. They want to be the wise-cracking invincible guy with the great body. Women want to have sex with him, which plays into the whole wish-projection thing too.

Who wants to be a the WWE's closest thing to a pacifist ever and get his ass beaten constantly while also being booed at. The writers are overreaching with this attempt to humanize him and add depth to his character. They're just alienating his fans and giving the people booing more reason to hate him.

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There should be a relatively small group of guys who can actually keep up with Cena (Punk, Orton, etc.) and everyone else either MAY be able to bring him to the brink of defeat on occasion or just isn't at his level yet. That's pretty much it. Cena should be winning about 90% of the time to justify his spot kayfabe-wise.

And also should definitely go over Rock.
Agreed.
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:00 PM   #18
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Kane hasn't actually beaten Cena. He's beat him up in sneak attacks, etc. but that's just par for the course with Cena.

He often gets beaten down outside of the confines of a match to create the whole "Can Cena overcome the odds!?" scenario. Then he gets beaten down for 20 minutes in the match before winning in the end.

That is Superman/Cena in a nutshell.

Superman often gets his ass kicked/is in jeopardy of some kind but in the end he usually "overcomes the odds" - or to put it another way, "Rises Above Hate".

What we're seeing is the midpoint of a story. Watch the Rumble if you wanna see SuperCena in all his glory.
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:09 PM   #19
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I'll watch it, cuz, why not? I can imagine the Rock screwing him at Rumble though...
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:40 PM   #20
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Hate to be a "super-smark, think about the business aspect over the storytelling" type, but is putting Cena over the entire roster (for a change) and then having Rock beat him a good idea in the long run?

Is it not saying "Hey look! This guy came back after 7 years and beat the guy that beat everybody else. Our current guys suck. LOL"?
But does the casual fan really care?

I know the "smark" cares, but do you really think anyone's going to lose credibility for this venture in the eyes of people who probably don't use the word "credibility?"

I don't think Rock's time away from the company would even matter if people weren't bitching about him "selling out."

I just don't see this doing much "damage" to the roster. I think the booking would have to be particularly vindictive/deliberate in order to achieve that effect.
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:58 PM   #21
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Yeah, especially considering that Cena's had like 13 championship reigns now.
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:52 PM   #22
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Mostly during the protest of the smarks.

If they can manage to find the roster still credible after that....
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:22 PM   #23
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Here's my problem with this whole thing. The smarks made two suggestions for Cena.

1. Turn him heel.
2. Make him less invincible.

WWE went with 2 for some reason and now it seems like 30-40% of the crowd is booing him at events. Turning Cena heel, however, would probably just turn 60-70% against as well.
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:26 PM   #24
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Turning someone heel fixes everything.
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:32 PM   #25
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Mocking the smarks aside, from what I've seen they haven't made him less invincible, and the formula is the exact same faux tension everyone was bitching about in the first place. They're trying to play the guy who always seems to get the upper hand as though he's somehow the underdog.

In that sense, I think the Superman comparison is most apt. The general Superman story seems to play it like there's some doubt Superman's going to save the day, when the guy's obviously stacked as a GOD.

Oh, and sometimes there's kryptonite.

I mean, all the heroes generally win, but with Superman it seems so much less interesting because barring kryptonite his flaws are all superficial. At the end of the match, Cena's just gonna "Hulk up," rise against hate, and hit the five moves of doom. And that's not entirely a Cena thing, but it is most glaring here.
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:10 AM   #26
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Well, I guess we could turn Cena into the Incredible Hulk then. You know...piss him off until he snaps and turns into a badass submission machine who doesn't take shit from anybody.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:00 AM   #27
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Plus, he's from Boston. turning green should be easy.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:01 AM   #28
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I think that Cena should try to be more like 1990 Hulk Hogan AND WCW Goldberg. A little more no-selling and losing only via nefarious means would be a nice "Fuck you" to the smark crowd and I predict that a lot of the booing would be alleviated. I think the casual fan only wants to see someone that can kick the shit out of the bad guys.

From what I've seen Cena takes a bunch of punishment then shrugs it off after his Hulk Up moment. (You guys are telling me that's pretty much how he's always done this.)

A more successful model would be for him to dominate the beginning of the math for about 3-4 minutes, get poked in the eyes and beat up for a little before coming back and showing a strong finish.

Are we exaggerating how formulaic Cena's matches are though???
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:34 PM   #29
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Are we exaggerating how formulaic Cena's matches are though???
No.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathtotheSwiss View Post
I think that Cena should try to be more like 1990 Hulk Hogan AND WCW Goldberg. A little more no-selling and losing only via nefarious means would be a nice "Fuck you" to the smark crowd and I predict that a lot of the booing would be alleviated.
Yeah, people no longer going to the arenas would alleviate the booing, but would it be a good idea?
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:54 PM   #31
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Fragile X got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)Fragile X got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)Fragile X got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)Fragile X got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)Fragile X got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)Fragile X got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)Fragile X got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)Fragile X got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (20,000+)
This forum has lost it. It's fucking retarded.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:32 PM   #32
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This forum has lost it. It's fucking retarded.
Tell 'em, Steve-Dave!
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:46 PM   #33
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Yeah, people no longer going to the arenas would alleviate the booing, but would it be a good idea?
You think that what fans Cena has left and casual fans wouldn't enjoy that kind of thing? Have kids and desperate women really changed that much since the 80s and 90s?
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:53 PM   #34
Kane Knight
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I'm saying the last time the fans stopped booing Cena severely it coincided with a ratings and attendance drop.

And the time before that.

A "Fuck You" to the haters might have a very predictable outcome.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:01 PM   #35
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Interesting. So the core fans, the ones keeping WWE afloat, love babyface Cena but the "casual fans" and "smarks" hate him. I kind of assumed the casual fans liked him.

Maybe Cena VS. Rock was a bad idea after all...I know I certainly didn't want to see it.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:03 PM   #36
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I'm not sure I'd call them "core fans."
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