This year's wrestlemania- one big clusterfuck of matches with no build?

[Splaya]

In the SD spoilers thread, The Show off claimed that they are not building up to wrestlemania with actual storylines. I beg to differ

Yeah look at this years card

Cena vs Batista- Forced or not, Batista was the screwjob factor in taking the title from Cena

HBK vs Taker- Streak vs Career. Enough said

HHH versus Sheamus- Sheamus attacks HHH because HHH injured him at the chamber and eliminated him. Plus Sheamus is one of the "young guns" who allegedly needs to step up.

Randy Orton versus Cody Rhodes versus Ted Dibiase- Even though this is unofficial it is the most likely to happen for Orton. Orton was the leader of Legacy and his group got sick of him and his actions.

Jericho versus Edge- When Edge got hurt last year, Jericho claimed that Edge dropped the ball with the tag titles. Whether Edge sucks as a face or runs around and spears people 17 times during an episode of SD is moot. This feud has plenty of legs.

MITB- You have Christian, Matt Hardy, Evan Bourne, MVP, Jack Swagger, Drew Mcintyre, Dolph Ziggler, Kane, and Shelton Benjamin and possibly Kofi to be added. Christian and Shelton Benjamin feuded for a couple of months for the ECW title. Same with Swagger and Christian. Matt Hardy has had problems with Dolph and Mcintyre. Jack Swagger and MVP have feuded on RAW. Kane and Dolph Ziggler have been having TV matches against one another. You could even go back to the days of TLC and you have Matt Hardy and Christian , both face, and both way over, feuding because its a shot at a world title.

The Miz and Big Show versus R-truth and John Morrison. Sure, big show and R-truth have nothing to really do with this match, but the underlying issue is the Miz and John Morrison. Both of these guys were tag partners, possibly one of the funniest and over (in terms of heel heat) tag teams in recent memory, and then The Miz turned on Morrison when the Miz was drafted to RAW. Flash forward a year later and we get the payoff with these two having a match with championships on the line.

Bret Hart versus Vince McMahon- Street fight, normal match, hell in the cell, kennel from hell, octagon match, mud wrestling match. It does not matter what type of match these 2 had. The "I hate Vince because he screwed Bret" and the "I hate Bret because he screwed the WWE " fans will order this PPV just to see this alone

[Jeritron]

I think the worst part is that MITB has been 8 guys for years now, and suddenly the addition of 1 more guy has gotten it dubbed as a disasterous clusterfuck by many in that thread.

I find that hilarious. Especially since if they actually paid attention to how those matches work, they'd find that only 2-4 guys are active at any given time, while the rest sell spots or get taken out of action altogether.

[Jeritron]

Also, Batista and Cena is a match that is 5 years in the making. The screwjob at Elimination Chamber was just an access point.

[Loose Cannon]

I don't know what Show Off said exactly, but this Mania has a ton of story and build behind it, which it one of the reasons I'm really excited about it

[The Franchise]

yeah The Show is gonna be Off the hook

Good build, great card.

[Loose Cannon]

btw, when I first read your thread, I thought Big Show and Miz has said something on Smackdown about thier being no build to Wrestlemania. I was like wtf, they actually said that

[Splaya]

LOL, I'm just trying to be honest. This is the first mania in years that I'm itching to see.

And I haven't even really watched the product the past 6 weeks due to 24 and working on Fridays. I catch replays on Justin.tv but most of the time don't sit through it all

[Rammsteinmad]

Build or not, the matches themselves look fucking sweet, and should be good.

[The MAC]

a match that has 12 years of history! No build up? Are you fucking kidding me?

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah, that's ridiculous. There's tons of buildup.

[The Show Off]

This is the post I made in the Smackdown Spoilers thread:

And to think I didn't like when they expanded Money in the Back to 8 people.

10 people in Money in the Bank just accentuates all of the WWE's weaknesses: Inability to come up with multiple intriguing storylines, and inability to fit more than 9 matches on a 4 hour show!

Instead of getting a Drew McIntyer IC title match or a well built feud for Kofi getting a one on one match at Wrestlemania (against anyone I don't care) the WWE is going to fill that time with extra long entrances 5 minute long video packages and dumb skits...

I have high hopes for this year's Wrestlemania, but I did last year as well and last year's pacing was awful. Kid Rock (who I actually like) was on way too long, they spent too much time with Jericho and Mickey Rourke. Shawn Michaels and Undertaker's entrance combined was about 10 minutes long. And they had video packages for like 4 of the 8 matches that night all four of those packages were at least 2 or 3 minutes long.

Last Wrestlemania they had a 240 minute time slot to work with and they only used 111 minutes on wrestling? That's absurdly bad. I'm not saying don't have any pagentry but you're telling me they couldn't fit in two more 10 minute matches in there and bring it up to 131 minutes of wrestling? That's still almost 2 hours of non wrestling.

Anyway I'm glad Drew made the card but 9 man money in the back just shows the WWE doesn't know what to do with their talent. But luckily the rest of the show will be good most likley.

It's completely unedited so I have changed nothing about it.

I never said their was no build to this Wrestlemania... I also never said this wouldn't be a good Wrestlemania or even a great one. I was just saying why I don't like Money in the Bank and specifically having more than 6 wrestlers in Money in the Bank.

I was also stating that they could add more matches if the cut down the time they have in between matches on a wrestling show having more down time than actual wrestling is terrible.

As for the qute that is the most misunderstood...

10 people in Money in the Bank just accentuates all of the WWE's weaknesses: Inability to come up with multiple intriguing storylines, and inability to fit more than 9 matches on a 4 hour show!

I wasn't talking about the main event builds I was talking about how instead of putting 9 or 10 people in money in the bank the could give young guys like MVP, Drew McIntyre, or Evan Bourne individual feuds to highlight their talents rather than thrown them into one big match where only one guy gets recognized. Does anyone think Christian at this stage of his career should be relegated to a 9 or 10 man match?

Any way, I never said their was no build to the main event matches of wrestlemania. People should learn to read before starting threads misquoting me. Though I am flattered you care.

[The Franchise]

I wasn't talking about the main event builds I was talking about how instead of putting 9 or 10 people in money in the bank the could give young guys like MVP, Drew McIntyre, or Evan Bourne individual feuds to highlight their talents rather than thrown them into one big match where only one guy gets recognized. Does anyone think Christian at this stage of his career should be relegated to a 9 or 10 man match?

That's probably because there is at least 6 matches on this years card that have a good shot of going 10+ minutes. Factor in the two world title matches probably getting 20 minutes, HBK/Taker possibly nearing 30, plus the aftermath of either the streak ended or HBK retiring and I'm sure Bret/Vince will have interference and stuff that will cause it to go longer. Add in the aftermath of that match. Then there are segments and entrances and stuff. The MITB is the only way to get those guys on the WM card, the alternative is clusterfuck tag matches like the Attitude Era Manias or these mid-carders simply being left off the show like WM 19 and 21. OR you have 12-13 matches and then the title matches and HBK/Taker are shorter matches. All of the alternatives seem bad to me so this is the best scenario IMO

[Loose Cannon]

yea, I agree with you Show Off, but like Franchise is saying, they are trying to get the most people the can on the show. The biggest reason behind the scenes is because of the paycheck the wrestlers get for working Mania. It's a large one to say the least. Or at least that's what I've understood in the past

[The Franchise]

But yeah the amount of time Cena, Triple H and Taker's WM entrances take could probably fit in a match. But I dunno, it still wouldn't be enough time to have a "great match" and the entrances are always memorable/funny

[The Show Off]

yea, I agree with you Show Off, but like Franchise is saying, they are trying to get the most people the can on the show. The biggest reason behind the scenes is because of the paycheck the wrestlers get for working Mania. It's a large one to say the least. Or at least that's what I've understood in the past

That makes the most sense. I don't want to see money taken out of people's pockets.

Maybe this is more a problem I have with Money in the Bank than anything else. I liked the concept of Money in the Bank back during Wrestlemania 21 but I haven't like the concept since. The match is always pretty good but it only gets one guy over with the crowd, and that's the winner. Shelton Benjamin has been in 4 of them put on the best performance in each and hasn't gotten over from any of them.

In contrast MVP takes on Chris Benoit at Wrestlemania 23 and gets even more over with the fans than he was... in a loss.

[The Show Off]

That's probably because there is at least 6 matches on this years card that have a good shot of going 10+ minutes. Factor in the two world title matches probably getting 20 minutes, HBK/Taker possibly nearing 30, plus the aftermath of either the streak ended or HBK retiring and I'm sure Bret/Vince will have interference and stuff that will cause it to go longer. Add in the aftermath of that match. Then there are segments and entrances and stuff. The MITB is the only way to get those guys on the WM card, the alternative is clusterfuck tag matches like the Attitude Era Manias or these mid-carders simply being left off the show like WM 19 and 21. OR you have 12-13 matches and then the title matches and HBK/Taker are shorter matches. All of the alternatives seem bad to me so this is the best scenario IMO

Sounds reasonable... Let's figure out how much actual wrestling is going to be on this card... And I'm going to be real liberal with the match times...

Jericho/Edge: 25 minutes
Batista/Cena: 20 minutes
Taker/HBK: 30 minutes
HHH/Shemus: 15 minutes
Hart/Vince: 15 minutes
Money in the Bank: 20 minutes
ShowMiz/Truth & Morrison: 10 minutes
Punk/Mysterio: 10 minutes
Legacy Match: 15 minutes
Women's Match: 10 minutes

That'd be 2 hours and 35 minutes worth of matches for a 4 hour show. If they do that I have no problem.

I just don't want to see another Mania in which half the show no one is wrestling. Last year their was 129 minutes of non wrestling and they bumped the Unified tag team championship to the pre show? Thats terrible.

That was the main crux of my argument.

[Mr Amazing]

the entrances do take a long time but some are really memorable.Example are

-Cena at Manias 22-25
-Triple H Manias 22and 25
-Flair mania 24
-all of takers entances
-HBK Wrestlmania 12 and 25

[The Jayman]

lets not forget the HOF segment that will be anywhere between 30 - 45 minutes

[St. Jimmy]

Maybe if the people who watched SD! would watch Raw instead they would see the build up.

[Loose Cannon]

HBK/Taker is going 85 minutes

[Jeritron]

Can you read?

[Londoner]

Ah right, he's arguing against the point i see, sorry didn't read it all,lol. Just found the title a bit bizarre and misread somethings in the OP.

[Jeritron]

I can see where it could cause confusion like Supreme's Women Would You Date A Virgin? barnburner

[jskinnyg]

I keep hearing about this Punk Mysterio match... When is this gonna be booked? This Friday you think? My DVR jerked me and missed last Friday...

[Mr. Nerfect]

I like that there are nine guys in Money in the Bank this year. Although MITB has gotten sneaky, and the cast for the match has looked progressively less established every year -- this will at least allow them to promote the match as "the biggest ever." The WWE loves doing that.

The WWE could really advertise this show as "every match is a main event." There is not one match, besides maybe the eventually added Women's Title match, that could not main event a PPV under some circumstance.

[theexample]

I'm gonna buy it this year. Just hope I'm not working that night.

[Jordan]

It's perfectly built up for todays standards.

[Juan]

Thanks for deleting those for me.

[Emperor Smeat]

MITB is always going to have no build to it since its always been about using random guys where the main goal is to win a guaranteed title shot at a future main event.

It would be like making the Rumble be built up so all 30 guys have individual reasons to be there and not be what the Rumble really is about, 30 random wrestlers fighting for a guaranteed title shot.

The best build up has been the Taker-HBK since everyone wanted the rematch after last year's Wrestlemania and HBK has done a great job playing the fanatical character who is desperate to avenge a loss at any cost. Edge-Jericho and Cena-Batista are going to be feuds that go past Wrestlemania so no need for the feud-ending moment to be at Wrestlemania.

[GoneFishing]

It might be a clusterfuck but it's going to be an entertaining clusterfuck.

[Juan]

Looks like stukkband needs to learn how to read.

[bostonbill41]

LOL, I'm just trying to be honest. This is the first mania in years that I'm itching to see.

And I haven't even really watched the product the past 6 weeks due to 24 and working on Fridays. I catch replays on Justin.tv but most of the time don't sit through it all

I'm looking forward to this also especially since I'm going ;) but If I weren't Id buy the ppv. I'm curious what the order of matches will be.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Sounds reasonable... Let's figure out how much actual wrestling is going to be on this card... And I'm going to be real liberal with the match times...

Jericho/Edge: 25 minutes
Batista/Cena: 20 minutes
Taker/HBK: 30 minutes
HHH/Shemus: 15 minutes
Hart/Vince: 15 minutes
Money in the Bank: 20 minutes
ShowMiz/Truth & Morrison: 10 minutes
Punk/Mysterio: 10 minutes
Legacy Match: 15 minutes
Women's Match: 10 minutes

That'd be 2 hours and 35 minutes worth of matches for a 4 hour show. If they do that I have no problem.

I'd be cool with half that amount actually. Especially for the Women's match.

[DaVe]

I don't think you can say a 30 minute Taker-HBK match is being 'real liberal'. They went over 30 minutes last year, and I'm sure they're gonna try and out-do everything about last year's match this year.

[Jordan]

I'd be cool with half that amount actually. Especially for the Women's match.

I think your are over estimating ....

I think they would shave 3-5 minutes off of most of those. I hope I am wrong. But some matches need to be shorter for realism sake.

[6-String King]

In the SD spoilers thread, The Show off claimed that they are not building up to wrestlemania with actual storylines. I beg to differ

Yeah look at this years card

Cena vs Batista- Forced or not, Batista was the screwjob factor in taking the title from Cena

HBK vs Taker- Streak vs Career. Enough said

HHH versus Sheamus- Sheamus attacks HHH because HHH injured him at the chamber and eliminated him. Plus Sheamus is one of the "young guns" who allegedly needs to step up.

Randy Orton versus Cody Rhodes versus Ted Dibiase- Even though this is unofficial it is the most likely to happen for Orton. Orton was the leader of Legacy and his group got sick of him and his actions.

Jericho versus Edge- When Edge got hurt last year, Jericho claimed that Edge dropped the ball with the tag titles. Whether Edge sucks as a face or runs around and spears people 17 times during an episode of SD is moot. This feud has plenty of legs.

MITB- You have Christian, Matt Hardy, Evan Bourne, MVP, Jack Swagger, Drew Mcintyre, Dolph Ziggler, Kane, and Shelton Benjamin and possibly Kofi to be added. Christian and Shelton Benjamin feuded for a couple of months for the ECW title. Same with Swagger and Christian. Matt Hardy has had problems with Dolph and Mcintyre. Jack Swagger and MVP have feuded on RAW. Kane and Dolph Ziggler have been having TV matches against one another. You could even go back to the days of TLC and you have Matt Hardy and Christian , both face, and both way over, feuding because its a shot at a world title.

The Miz and Big Show versus R-truth and John Morrison. Sure, big show and R-truth have nothing to really do with this match, but the underlying issue is the Miz and John Morrison. Both of these guys were tag partners, possibly one of the funniest and over (in terms of heel heat) tag teams in recent memory, and then The Miz turned on Morrison when the Miz was drafted to RAW. Flash forward a year later and we get the payoff with these two having a match with championships on the line.

Bret Hart versus Vince McMahon- Street fight, normal match, hell in the cell, kennel from hell, octagon match, mud wrestling match. It does not matter what type of match these 2 had. The "I hate Vince because he screwed Bret" and the "I hate Bret because he screwed the WWE " fans will order this PPV just to see this alone



Your full of shit. This is the best Mania Card in a long time. I was watching this Wrestlemania All Access thing on DirecTV. They were showing some of the top moments in the most recent Wrestlemania's, going all the way back to WM22. Looking back at all of those Wrestlemania's I've gotta say this year's is gonna be one of the best in a long time.

Of course you have Hart vs. Mcmahon. Obviously The Hitman won't be on the top of his game. But I'm sure it will be entertaining none the less. Brett Hart wouldn't put his health, and his legendary reputation on the line if he didn't feel he could atleast offer something.

You have Money in the Bank. Always a good match every year. I especially look forward to seeing what Christian will do at his first WM back. You know he's going to do something historic, win or lose.

Jericho vs. Edge-Though I don't really like Edge, as a good guy, or as a heel making out with his Vicki Guerrero. He's still an excellent wrestler. This will be an excellent match.

Cena vs. Batista- Another great match. I hope Batista wins and Cena gives up all hope. And turns against the fans or something drastic because this guy's character is too long burnt out.

Undertaker vs HBK- I don't have to say anything. Everybody agrees this will be a historic match. I wouldn't doubt if it ends up being the best match in WM history.

Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes vs Ted Dibiase - This is Rhodes and Dibiase's big moment to really shine here. We already know Orton will put on a great show.

Punk vs Mysterio - Though I don't think it's been actually "announced" it's obviously going to happen. This should be an excellent fast paced match.

Triple H vs Sheamus- I think this will be a good match to see what Sheamus really has to offer. I like The Game, so I'll like this match no matter what.

ShowMiz vs R-truth and John Morrison: This is the match I least look forward to. This should have been The Miz vs John Morrison for the US Title. Hopefully this match will surprise me.

I see no clusterfuck. Only a line of matches that will make for a historic Wrestlemania. You sir may no long post anything about your shitty thoughtless opinions.

[Juan]

Your full of shit. This is the best Mania Card in a long time. I was watching this Wrestlemania All Access thing on DirecTV. They were showing some of the top moments in the most recent Wrestlemania's, going all the way back to WM22. Looking back at all of those Wrestlemania's I've gotta say this year's is gonna be one of the best in a long time.

Of course you have Hart vs. Mcmahon. Obviously The Hitman won't be on the top of his game. But I'm sure it will be entertaining none the less. Brett Hart wouldn't put his health, and his legendary reputation on the line if he didn't feel he could atleast offer something.

You have Money in the Bank. Always a good match every year. I especially look forward to seeing what Christian will do at his first WM back. You know he's going to do something historic, win or lose.

Jericho vs. Edge-Though I don't really like Edge, as a good guy, or as a heel making out with his Vicki Guerrero. He's still an excellent wrestler. This will be an excellent match.

Cena vs. Batista- Another great match. I hope wins, Cena gives up all hope. And turns against the fans or something drastic because this guy's character is too long burnt out.

Undertaker vs HBK- I don't have to say anything. Everybody agrees this will be a historic match. I wouldn't doubt if it ends up being the best match in WM history.

Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes vs Ted Dibiase - This is Rhodes and Dibiase's big moment to really shine here. We already know Orton will put on a great show.

Punk vs Mysterio - Though I don't think it's been actually "announced" it's obviously going to happen. This should be an excellent fast paced match.

ShowMiz vs R-truth and John Morrison: This is the match I least look forward to. This should have been The Miz vs John Morrison for the US Title. Hopefully this match will surprise me.

I see no clusterfuck. Only a line of matches that will make for a historic Wrestlemania. You sir may no long post anything about your shitty thoughtless opinions.

If you read the first sentence of Splaya's post, he clearly states that poster The Show Off is the one that made the claim that this years Mania is just a clusteruck with no build. Other than that, you just basically posted the same thing he did.

[Xero]

lol wtf

[Juan]

What the fuck are you doing?

[Juan]

It's called quoting a post. Pretty standard at any online message board.

[Xero]

Diaperboy?

[Juan]

Diaperboy?

My thoughts exactly.

[Juan]

uh... what post?

The one you deleted. Don't worry though, I undeleted it so everyone can see what a bright young man you are.

[Fignuts]

Yeah, most of the feuds don't have the kind of heat going in that most mania's do. Taker/Shawn excluded, obviously.

I think a big problem is Mcmahon splitting his time between the build to the bret match, and the build to the cena/batista match. Outside of that one decent promo he delivered, Batista has come off as just some henchman of mcmahon. It feels like Jericho/HHH from X-8, although not quite that bad. Still could be better.

And bret isn't on tv enough. They had to run a video package on the feud last week, in the midst of the cena/batista/mcmahon feud, just to remind everybody "Oh yeah, we're doing this too."

Edge and Jericho feels weird to me. Feels really forced. Doesn't help that face Edge sucks, imo.

The Legacy break up feels like they are just going through the motions. Just a really typical faction split. Comes nowhere close to matching the great evolution break up, from years ago.

Feels like HHH is facing Shaemus, just because he has nothing else to do.

Honestly, it feels like the only matches with a good build, are Mysterio vs Punk and Taker vs HBK. MITB doesn't need build. It's a 10 man ladder match ffs.

please to be thanking me for my take

[Jeritron]

This thread has proved how many people just fly off the handle/respond to shit without even coming close to reading what it says first

Giant case study

[6-String King]

Yeah, most of the feuds don't have the kind of heat going in that most mania's do. Taker/Shawn excluded, obviously.

I think a big problem is Mcmahon splitting his time between the build to the bret match, and the build to the cena/batista match. Outside of that one decent promo he delivered, Batista has come off as just some henchman of mcmahon. It feels like Jericho/HHH from X-8, although not quite that bad. Still could be better.

And bret isn't on tv enough. They had to run a video package on the feud last week, in the midst of the cena/batista/mcmahon feud, just to remind everybody "Oh yeah, we're doing this too."

Edge and Jericho feels weird to me. Feels really forced. Doesn't help that face Edge sucks, imo.

The Legacy break up feels like they are just going through the motions. Just a really typical faction split. Comes nowhere close to matching the great evolution break up, from years ago.

Feels like HHH is facing Shaemus, just because he has nothing else to do.

Honestly, it feels like the only matches with a good build, are Mysterio vs Punk and Taker vs HBK. MITB doesn't need build. It's a 10 man ladder match ffs.

please to be thanking me for my take

Thanks

[Fignuts]

Where am I?

[Juan]

lol stukkband showing off his great reading skills again.

[Fignuts]

oh. wrestling forum

[Fignuts]

He was thanking me for my take, JUAN.

Like a gentleman.

[Juan]

Get a room

[Fignuts]

Get a chalupa

[Fignuts]

aww done made myself hungry now

[Juan]

Taco Bell is for white people.

[Tyler Killer]

If you don't like the line-up don't watch. It's really quite that simple.




http://www.ringinsider.com/wrestlingmedia/photos/gifs/sharpshooter.gif

[Fignuts]

If you don't like the people on this forum, don't post here. It's that simple.

[6-String King]

If you don't like the line-up don't watch. It's really quite that simple.


Exactly, Juan

[6-String King]

I'd like to know wtf Juan does in real life. Everytime I get on here he's on. It's like he has nothing else better to do but to get on an Internet Wrestling Forum, feel high and mighty on his Moderator Trip and trash posts. I'm not kidding, or over exaggerating. Every, Single, Time. This dude is on. Get out much?

[Juan]

I only leave the house when your mom calls me.

[The Franchise]

lol

[Nervous Ferret]

More like sukkband eh??????????

[6-String King]

I only leave the house when your mom calls me.

Seriously? That's what you have? I have a problem believing you get any pussy of any sort ever. Well, other then the apparent necrophilia your into.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Maybe Juan is off every time you are off, and you just so happen to go on at the exact same times. This would imply that you need to get out if he does.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Juan is the one.

Juan is hung.

[6-String King]

Juan is the one.

Juan is hung.

You wouldn't know wouldn't you Cockboy

[Mr. Nerfect]

You wouldn't know wouldn't...argh, too many negatives. System overload. Need some of Juan's cock to make it better. Or for him to ban some ass.