HBK's greatest opponent

[The Franchise]

Now that Shawn Michaels has "retired" after another great Wrestlemania match with Undertaker, who has been the greatest opponent of HBK's career? Things to consider: Who has HBK had his best matches, feuds and moments with? Who brings out the best of Shawn Michaels?

There has been a lot of great opponents and rivals in his career. I added some of the obvious ones and then an 'other' option for anyone I forgot.

Poll is coming.

[Sixx]

I chose Razor Ramon because I loved their matches, don't know about the storylines really, cause I mostly see shit on youtube.

[The Franchise]

I'm not sure why I put Foley on here. I thought they had more matches than just Mind Games. I think this is between Taker and Bret. Up until WrestleMania 25 I would have said it's Bret Hart but the last two matches with Taker and this entire feud makes this a tough choice. I'm going to have to go with Taker because I think 3 of his top 5 matches are against Taker (other two being Jericho at WM 19 and Razor Ramon at WM 10). He's had an amazing rivalry with Bret that's had great matches from the ladder match in 92 to WM 12 and it was the biggest feud between the Hulkamania years and the Attitude Era but I think HBK has been a better wrestler since his comeback and this feud with Taker has been something else. Not to mention their feud in the 90s was damn good too.

I say Taker is his best opponent with Bret Hart being a close second.

[Jeritron]

I went with Taker. I think it's by far now too.
Bret Hart and maybe Chris Jericho are in second place. I feel like it would be closer before last night, or maybe even a 3-way tie. But yea...

Triple H would probably be 4th, and very close to Jericho. In fact, Jericho and HHH's rivalries with Shawn were probably about equal. I just personally enjoyed the two fueds with Jericho a bit more.

His work with the others is really good, as is the trend with him. He's had a classic match with each of those guys, but not really any fueds or series of matches that approach that of the other 4 rivalries I discussed.

So I would say...

1. Taker
2. Hart
3. HHH and Jericho (tie)
4. Razor Ramon
5. Kurt Angle
6. Stone Cold
7. Mick Foley (though Mind Games is way up on my list of matches, it's really all they have. He has a series of matches and a bigger history/fued with Austin, Angle and Hall)

[Sixx]

JBL probably deserves to be there more than Mick Foley.

[Jeritron]

I left out Diesel. They had a couple good matches, and some history obviously. I'd probably put it above or below Foley. Not sure.
Either way my list remains mostly unchanged.

[The Franchise]

Yeah Foley shouldn't be on there. My bad. Orton might have been a better choice. I think it's really between Taker, Bret, HHH or Jericho though. You could make a case for Razor Ramon (both WM 10 and SS 95 were insanely good matches) but when you factor in feuds and all, it doesn't hold up to someone like Taker or Bret Hart.

[Sixx]

I think it's really between Taker, Bret, HHH or Jericho though. .

FUCK YOU! :foc:

Why did you give us the other options then, hmmm?

I'm sticking with Razor Ramon.

[The Franchise]

Because there will be the odd cretin who will say

"What about SHELTON remember that one match with the superkick?????" :mad:

[Jeritron]

I think a lot of the history goes into the Bret and Michaels fued too. They never got in the ring as much as they should have, at least as main eventers. They didn't have as many matches as that fued deserved, because of egos.
I think it would be safe to argue that alltogether he had more great matches with HHH and Jericho. But the real life issues between Hart and Michaels lend a feeling of reality to their fued.
Plus they both came up the ranks together in extremely similar fashions, and were the two best in the business at the same time. They were easily the entire life of the WWF for a few years. Without them, it was nothing. It was probably a 50/50 split of importance too.

[Jeritron]

Yeah Foley shouldn't be on there. My bad. Orton might have been a better choice. I think it's really between Taker, Bret, HHH or Jericho though. You could make a case for Razor Ramon (both WM 10 and SS 95 were insanely good matches) but when you factor in feuds and all, it doesn't hold up to someone like Taker or Bret Hart.

All of Michaels matches with Orton don't equal the greatness of his one match with Foley at Mind Games.

[Sixx]

Because there will be the odd cretin who will say

"What about SHELTON remember that one match with the superkick?????" :mad:

I didn't mean the "other" option, just other options than the four you mentioned.

[The Franchise]

Oh, I don't know. I think I chose 10 for the poll and then had to fill them up :D

[Rammsteinmad]

Bret Hart.

They had great matches. The rivalry was really intense. Plus the history with the whole Rockers/Hart Foundation thing.

Also, if anything else, up until Hart's return, 12 years after Montreal it was still being bought up, I mean, that's one hell of a fued right there.

[The Gold Standard]

Undertaker. I don't think there was a match of theirs I did not enjoy.

I was thinking Bret, but the only problem was there was a 13 year span where there weren't any matches. Don't get me wrong their matches were great prior to that, but the feud really got huge once Bret left.

[Jeritron]

The fued was greater in real life and amongst fans than it ever was on the product. It was great, don't get me wrong, but their series of matches wasn't what it could have been.

[Nicky Fives]

Bret, then Razor, then Austin

[Vastardikai]

The Truth.

:shifty:

[CSL]

In ring, Kurt Angle.

[Savio]

Because there will be the odd cretin who will say

"What about SHELTON remember that one match with the superkick?????" :mad:
They should have had a feud, both matches that they had were amazing.

[The Franchise]

They were good but ridiculously overrated because of the finish

[Lock Jaw]

This is a really tough question.

1) Chris Jericho
2) Kurt Angle
3) Bret Hart
4) Triple H
5) Undertaker
6-Whatever) The Rest
After Whatever) Hulk Hogan :shifty:

I am taking into account not only the matches themselves, but the feuds, and memorable moments in said feuds. Basically, the amount of entertainment I got between their interactions as a whole.

[Damian Rey]

Went with Bret. Their year and a half feud was just so intense and so real. That was probably due to their backstage antics and disliking of one another, and to be able to translate that into their in ring personalities was great.

They never had a bad match. The arguably have their best chemistry with each other. Not to mention, Survivor Series 97 cemented them as enemies for life, at least until this year.

[The Franchise]

I think Bret and HBK never got to have a five star one-on-one match. It probably would have happened at WrestleMania 13 if HBK didn't 'lose his smile'

[The Show Off]

I'll be in before James Steele...

It's this guy...

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--Chris Benoit (c) v. Shawn Michaels v. Triple H (Triple Threat Match for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Backlash 2004)

--Triple H (c) v. Booker T v. Chris Jericho v. Kane v. Rob Van Dam v. Shawn Michaels (Elimination Chamber for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Survivor Series 2002)

--Triple H (c) v. Chris Benoit v. Shawn Michaels (Triple Threat Match for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Wrestlemania XX)

--Shawn Michaels v. Triple H (Unsantioned Street Fight, WWE Summer Slam 2002)

--Shawn Michaels (c) v. Triple H (Three Stages of Hell Match for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Armageddon 2002)

--Shawn Michaels v. Triple H (Hell in a Cell, WWE Bad Blood 2004)

--Triple H (c) v. Shawn Michaels (for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE RAW #553)

--Triple H (c) v. Shawn Michaels (Last Man Standing for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Royal Rumble 2004)


All of thos matches are top quality. And all of them have one thing in common they were all largely based on the Triple H/Shawn Michaels feud.

[The Franchise]

Also for Taker-Michaels the ending to the 2007 Royal Rumble was better than any match at Wrestlemania that year.

[James Steele]

I'll be in before James Steele...

It's this guy...

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--Chris Benoit (c) v. Shawn Michaels v. Triple H (Triple Threat Match for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Backlash 2004)

--Triple H (c) v. Booker T v. Chris Jericho v. Kane v. Rob Van Dam v. Shawn Michaels (Elimination Chamber for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Survivor Series 2002)

--Triple H (c) v. Chris Benoit v. Shawn Michaels (Triple Threat Match for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Wrestlemania XX)

--Shawn Michaels v. Triple H (Unsantioned Street Fight, WWE Summer Slam 2002)

--Shawn Michaels (c) v. Triple H (Three Stages of Hell Match for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Armageddon 2002)

--Shawn Michaels v. Triple H (Hell in a Cell, WWE Bad Blood 2004)

--Triple H (c) v. Shawn Michaels (for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE RAW #553)

--Triple H (c) v. Shawn Michaels (Last Man Standing for the World Heavyweight Championship, WWE Royal Rumble 2004)


All of thos matches are top quality. And all of them have one thing in common they were all largely based on the Triple H/Shawn Michaels feud.

:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::d rool:

[CWK]

Not that Cena deserves to be on the list, well he does more than Foley, but I thought the HBK vs. Cena matches at WM23, and the RAW in England in 2007 where they went like an hour were awesome matches.

[The Franchise]

The one in England was a really good match. Wrestlemania 23 was below average I found, not even because of Cena's selling of the leg, that didn't bother me as much as it does some people. The whole match felt "meh"

Maybe The Orient Express should be on here too. :D

[The Show Off]

:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::d rool:

I knew you'd agree. But that's not why I said that.

If you look at all of Shawn Mcichaels opponents he doesn't have one other foe that put on more quality matches with. The only one that comes close it is The Undertaker:

Wrestlemania 25
Wrestlemania 26
Hell in a Cell
Casket Match
Over the Edge

The rest of the people on that list only have one or two worthy matches with Shawn.

Bret Hart: Was only Survivor Series 1992 & Wrestlemania XII. Survivor Series 1997 wasn't all that good.

Chris Jericho: He has a few. The three from 2008, Wrestlemania XIX and maybe one or two others in 2003, but none all that memorable.

Foley: Just Mind Games comes to mind (no pun intended)

Diesel: Just Wrestlemania XI comes to mind.

Razor Ramon: The two ladder matches were great, but outside of that not much else.

Kurt Angle: Their trilogy in 2005 was great but each match got progressivly worse.

Stone Cold: Only Wrestlemania XIV and King of the Ring 1997 comes to mind.

Other quality opponents:

Chris Benoit: The triple threat matches in 2004 and the 1 on 1 match.

Ric Flair: Only one quality match Wrestlemaina XXIV

Edge: Just Royal Rumble 2005

Kane: Unforgiven 2004

John Cena: Wrestlemania 23 and their match in England


In conclusion Shawn Michaels has put on more great matches than anyone in the history of the buisness.

[The Franchise]

Yeah but IMO the WM 25/26 and HIAC matches with Taker are all better than any match he has had with HHH. The feud has been better, too.

[Favre4Ever]

HBK vs. Kurt Angle is the greatest match I've ever seen. Had to go with Angle.

[The Show Off]

Yeah but IMO the WM 25/26 and HIAC matches with Taker are all better than any match he has had with HHH. The feud has been better, too.

I disagree. But its all subjective. Saying that Taker is is greatest rival isn't outlandish though, I can see where you're coming from. I personally likes the two Triple Threat Mathes in 2004 better that the Micheals/Taker matches at Wrestlemania. I also liked the Unsanctioned Street Fight better than any of the Taker/Micheals matches.

But its all opinion its a matter of tastes.

[The Franchise]

Yeah no doubt. Don't get me wrong those are all great matches but I just found the Taker one's better. Also a large part of the greatness of those matches is that one crazy dude who I won't mention.

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah but IMO the WM 25/26 and HIAC matches with Taker are all better than any match he has had with HHH. The feud has been better, too.

No way the HBK/Taker feud is better than the HBK/HHH feud. Feud. Feud. Feyewed. Sometime when you say a word so many times it becomes the most fascinating thing ever.

... Where was I?

[CWK]

The HHH/HBK feud in 2002 was very awesome and had alot of emotion attached to it. I was lucky enough to be in attendance for the culmination of it at Armageddon 2002 in Ft. Lauderdale for the 2 of 3 falls match for the WHC. HBK's last world title reign

[The Franchise]

The HBK/HHH feud was good in 2002 but it became too long and played out like most HHH feuds. I hated it in 2003/04

[6-String King]

The past 2 wrestlemania, the first Hell in a Cell, goto Taker. But The matches he had with hart, the Ironman match. They were awesome too. Don't make me choose.

[The Franchise]

Do people really like the Iron man match that much? Don't get me wrong, Bret and Shawn are my two favorite wrestlers of all time but I just don't see what everyone else see's in that match. Sometimes I wonder if people like it just because you are supposed to like that match. I thought it was boring and honestly enjoyed Rock/HHH Iron man more.

[HTrain90]

I voted for Jericho for one reason - the WM19 match was the most entertaining WM match Shawn has ever had. The psychology in that match was awesome. The build, the match, the finish, the aftermath - that entire match was awesome. Plus, it springboarded HBK into his second stint with the WWE.

Taker is a close second, but the weight on the HBK/Y2J match and how it impacted Shawn's career is the deal breaker. Plus, it is simply the best match.

[Strike Force]

I gotta go Hart. The body of work against him when it was rockers/hart foundation and also they had some great matches for the ic title, even an amazing ladder match for the ic title that not many people have seen, plus their fued for the wwe title. These past 2 matches against Taker have been great, plus the hell in a cell and casket match, but i still gotta go Hart.

[Tazz Dan]

I knew you'd agree. But that's not why I said that.

If you look at all of Shawn Mcichaels opponents he doesn't have one other foe that put on more quality matches with. The only one that comes close it is The Undertaker:

Wrestlemania 25
Wrestlemania 26
Hell in a Cell
Casket Match
Over the Edge

The rest of the people on that list only have one or two worthy matches with Shawn.

Bret Hart: Was only Survivor Series 1992 & Wrestlemania XII. Survivor Series 1997 wasn't all that good.

Chris Jericho: He has a few. The three from 2008, Wrestlemania XIX and maybe one or two others in 2003, but none all that memorable.

Foley: Just Mind Games comes to mind (no pun intended)

Diesel: Just Wrestlemania XI comes to mind.

Razor Ramon: The two ladder matches were great, but outside of that not much else.

Kurt Angle: Their trilogy in 2005 was great but each match got progressivly worse.

Stone Cold: Only Wrestlemania XIV and King of the Ring 1997 comes to mind.

Other quality opponents:

Chris Benoit: The triple threat matches in 2004 and the 1 on 1 match.

Ric Flair: Only one quality match Wrestlemaina XXIV

Edge: Just Royal Rumble 2005

Kane: Unforgiven 2004

John Cena: Wrestlemania 23 and their match in England


In conclusion Shawn Michaels has put on more great matches than anyone in the history of the buisness.

So what you're saying is, any great match Shawn may have had with these other names on Raw or Smackdown doesn't count because it wasn't on ppv?

[Heyman]

Shawn's great opponent and rival was Bret Hart. Yes - he didn't have as many matches against Hart as he did with HHH, Taker, etc., but HBK's rivalry with Hart was when BOTH men were in their primes. Add to that - their real life hatred, their main-event at Wrestlemania, and so many other elements, and Bret Hart is the clear #1 consensus.

HBK's greatest rivals in my opinion:

1) Bret Hart
2) Triple H
3) Chris Jericho
3T) Undertaker
5) Stone Cold Steve Austin

Honorable Mention: Kurt Angle

[Tazz Dan]

I agree with Heyman.

You can have a great match with someone but does that make them a great opponent. The story behind it has as much to do with it in my opinion, and how well it's sold.

[DLVH84]

Here's my Top 10 choices for Shawn's Greatest Opponents...

01. Bret Hart - Several matches between 1990 and 1997.
02. The Undertaker - Several matches between 1997 and 2010.
03. Triple H - Several matches between 2002 and 2004.
04. Marty Jannetty - Several matches between 1993 and 1996.
05. Ric Flair - Several matches between 1991 and 2008.
06. Razor Ramon (Scott Hall) - Several matches between 1994 and 1996.
07. Diesel (Kevin Nash) - Several matches between 1995 and 1996.
08. Chris Jericho - Several matches between 2003 and 2008.
09. Mick Foley - Several matches between 1996 and 1997.
10. Randy Savage - Several matches in 1992.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

HHH, based on the Summerslam 2002 match alone.

[The Show Off]

So what you're saying is, any great match Shawn may have had with these other names on Raw or Smackdown doesn't count because it wasn't on ppv?

How did you get that message from that entire post?

[Tazz Dan]

Because all you quoted were matches from ppv's.....

[The Show Off]

Because all you quoted were matches from ppv's.....

Well, it doesn't mean that matches on TV don't matter it just means I don't remember them enough to refrence.

[DLVH84]

I count singles, tag teams, TV, PPV, and House Shows.

[Tazz Dan]

Well, it doesn't mean that matches on TV don't matter it just means I don't remember them enough to refrence.

WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD. :mad:


Nah, it wasn't a flame or anything to begin with here, I was just asking the question really. :kiss:

[The Show Off]

WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD. :mad:


Nah, it wasn't a flame or anything to begin with here, I was just asking the question really. :kiss:

I feel uncomfortable with that kiss...

[HeartBreakMan2k]

1. Bret
2. Hunter
3. Taker

In that order.

[The Franchise]

One thing I noticed is that when you think Shawn Michaels, the first wrestling name associated with that in most people's minds would be Bret Hart. Perhaps that says the answer to this question right there? It's the same thing with The Rock and Stone Cold.

[Jeritron]

That's from one generation though. I'm sure as of last night, there are plenty of people who will think The Undertaker.

[Aguakate]

I actually liked Shawn's matches with The British Bulldog...