So how exactly can you call Bret Hart a bad promo man when he cuts promos like this?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

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What exactly is not great about this promo? It's not over the top and he's not parading around like a clown but it hits its mark perfectly. Fuck you Xero :p

[KIRA]

I dunno Brets Promos are organic and human when he does one its very matter of fact ,it dosent feel forced and he manages not to sound like some loud angry idiot but simply like a man making a point thats what makes them good I think.

[HBPunk]

Thats ONE promo dude. Watch the Raw before WM26, he stumbles and botches his way through his promo and keeps rambling about beating up Vince over and over and over. A lot of people i talked to agreed that almost all of his promo's since he returned have been embarrassing

[Juan]

Thats ONE promo dude. Watch the Raw before WM26, he stumbles and botches his way through his promo and keeps rambling about beating up Vince over and over and over. A lot of people i talked to agreed that almost all of his promo's since he returned have been embarrassing

I'm sure that has nothing to do with the stroke the man had a few years ago.

[The Franchise]

Bret has always been pretty good on the mic, IMO.

[HBPunk]

I'm sure that has nothing to do with the stroke the man had a few years ago.

No Mr.KnowItAll Bret had that dreary boring voice all his career, he fears charisma too. His shit recent promo's are probably due to rust. To say its his stroke's fault is idiotic, I doubt he could 'compete' at Mania but lose his ability to think before he speakes

[YoungFlyFlashy]

Judging the guy on a couple promos in a few months, after his stroke, and no longer in his prime is unfair. His promos in his prime were on point! Especially his promos with the Hart Foundation.

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INTENSE!!!

[YoungFlyFlashy]

A few more...

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I love the 2nd one about "heros"

[KIRA]

Judging the guy on a couple promos in a few months, after his stroke, and no longer in his prime is unfair. His promos in his prime were on point! Especially his promos with the Hart Foundation.

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INTENSE!!!

:y:

[CSL]

He was/is a good promo guy that can cut very good promos. However he was definitely capable of being bland at times. Far from 'bad' though, that's ludicrous.

[YoungFlyFlashy]

"Stone Cold Steve Austin, now there's a real hero, his babbling ass. Full of worn over Texas cliches with barnyard overtones!"

CLASSIC!

[Shaggy]

Favorite WCW interview Bret Did....

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[Juan]

No Mr.KnowItAll Bret had that dreary boring voice all his career, he fears charisma too. His shit recent promo's are probably due to rust. To say its his stroke's fault is idiotic, I doubt he could 'compete' at Mania but lose his ability to think before he speakes

To say that his promos from 2010 are the same as his promos from 90's is idiotic. People who have strokes can sometimes have it affect their motor skills and cause them to slurr or stumble on words.

[YoungFlyFlashy]

THIS SHIT HERE IS FUNNY!

"Who are you to doubt El Dandy? Cause this guy's a true professional."

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[Kane Knight]

You probably don't notice, Newstead, as a Canuck, but he sounds a little slow, eh?

[Jordan]

He was okay in the past, but seriously... Dale... come on, his work in his return has been sub par even for his standards.

[James Steele]

He was a decent and occasionally good promo, but not a great promo.

[McLegend]

Bret could always could cut a pretty good heel promo.

[Theo Dious]

Get those "heel Bret" promos the fuck out of my face. All he ever did as a heel was throw temper tantrums and slam America. As far as his "first post-title win" promo, anybody who can't cut a high-quality promo after realizing a lifelong dream shouldn't be involved in any form of entertainment. Any jackass who ever won a Superbowl cut as good a promo as that.

[McLegend]

His Promo where he turned heel on America is very good, and he was good during that run, Tedious.

And throwing temper tantrums was a part of his gimmick.

[The Show Off]

He was always a good promo man not a great one. He has some great promos, but he was never great.

I love Bret though and always was a fan of his and liked how his promos went. He has a promo style that never really lent itself to constant "great" promos.

[Theo Dious]

And throwing temper tantrums was a part of his gimmick.

The sad thing is that this was true even when he was a face.

[Xero]

That promo is the exception, not the rule.

Most things outside of the US vs Canada stuff was shit from Bret.

[Kane Knight]

Bret could always could cut a pretty good heel promo.

I dunno. He sounds like he had a stroke.

...too soon?

No, but it predates the actual stroke.

[FourFifty]

Bret Hart, for being a wrestler, was good. His promos were clear, and he told his story. I remember he was cutting a promo when he was going to wrestle for the IC title after he lost it, and how he felt naked without it. It wasn't a personal attack, he didn't bitch about cheating, just him wanting to prove himself. As a heel his promos were heated, but often one dimensional. He was a typical foreigner. Good, but typical.

However, as an entertainer, he was bland and generic. He wasn't a Ric Flair who could beat your ass in a custom suit. He wasn't a Dusty Rhodes who was the common man. He wasn't a Muhamad Hassan who generated more heat than the freaking sun.

Bret Hart, for being a wrestler, was a classic. With that in mind, when was the last time you saw a movie made before 1960? Classics aren't appreciated in the media unless they become a pop-culture icon like when you see a 10 year old wearing the Pink Floyd shirt.
So just take Bret for who he is. A wrestler, and not a sports entertainer.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Thats ONE promo dude. Watch the Raw before WM26, he stumbles and botches his way through his promo and keeps rambling about beating up Vince over and over and over. A lot of people i talked to agreed that almost all of his promo's since he returned have been embarrassing

Coming from an HBK mark that has done nothing but bash Hart since he came back. Keep oogling the boy toy.


Bret is one of the best at making a promo seem genuine. That's why I enjoy listening to him. He tells it as it is. Most of the time it sounds like he's shooting in a way.

[St. Jimmy]

Because he had a stroke you numbdick. He can't talk anymore. That's what most of the comments were in reference to.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

nah Xero said he never liked his promos. STFU chunky Jim.

[6-String King]

No Mr.KnowItAll Bret had that dreary boring voice all his career, he fears charisma too. His shit recent promo's are probably due to rust. To say its his stroke's fault is idiotic, I doubt he could 'compete' at Mania but lose his ability to think before he speakes

And apparently you're Dr. KnowItAll.

The brain is an extremely complex organ that controls various body functions. If a stroke occurs and blood flow can't reach the region that controls a particular body function, that part of the body won't work as it should.

If the stroke occurs toward the back of the brain, for instance, it's likely that some disability involving vision will result. The effects of a stroke depend primarily on the location of the obstruction and the extent of brain tissue affected.

Right Brain
The effects of a stroke depend on several factors, including the location of the obstruction and how much brain tissue is affected. However, because one side of the brain controls the opposite side of the body, a stroke affecting one side will result in neurological complications on the side of the body it affects. For example, if the stroke occurs in the brain's right side, the left side of the body (and the right side of the face) will be affected, which could produce any or all of the following:

* Paralysis on the left side of the body
* Vision problems
* Quick, inquisitive behavioral style
* Memory loss

Left Brain
If the stroke occurs in the left side of the brain, the right side of the body will be affected, producing some or all of the following:

* Paralysis on the right side of the body
* Speech/language problems
* Slow, cautious behavioral style
* Memory loss




Go back to Med School Dr. ShitForBrains

[Jeritron]

It doesn't have catch phrases and potty jokes Newstead. Don't you know anything about great promos?

[St. Jimmy]

Jeritron is a poopy.

[Jeritron]

I'm willing to bet that a lot of the people saying Bret sucks on the mic didn't even fucking watch him cut promos weekly. I can't imagine how they could have actually seen those Raws and think that.

They're available on WWE on demand. I used to think Bret was mediocre on the microphone because of lame perpetuations, and then a few years ago I fucking WATCHED THE PROMOS, and realized I was dead wrong. Dead wrong.
It all probably has some connection to Montreal, and Vince/Shawn on some level, even though Vince/Shawn probably wouldn't even claim he was a bad promo man.
But some people have bias or feelings they don't want to change, and will look at them negatively no matter what

[Zeeboe]

Entertainment is subjective, and I suspect any Bret Hart haters would hate Bret even if he did cut a good promo because that's how people like that are. They hate someone, and nothing can change their mind. But I'll make one attempt anyhow. Not that it matters what they think, but because I am a Hitman fan, and because the following clip is pretty unknown to plenty of fans, I'm gonna share it.

Here's a heel promo he did in 1993 for USWA TV when he was feuding with Jerry Lawer -

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[Jeritron]

I just dislike the black and white opinions at work in the IWC. Some people are so unreasonable.

E.G. Bret sucks at promos, WCW sucked, Vince Russo sucks, John Cena can't wrestle, Vince McMahon is God, PG is bad, TNA is a clusterfuck, and so on.

All of these things have merit as their own opinions, and some of them are even based in truth, but it's just how everyone has made up their mind on such statements being finite and universal. They so blindly follow these credos that they can't even form their own opinions or be open to changing their mind, or at the very least recognizing that there is far more to everything than that. Shades of grey.

[Juan]

I just dislike the black and white opinions at work in the IWC. Some people are so unreasonable.

E.G. Bret sucks at promos, WCW sucked, Vince Russo sucks, John Cena can't wrestle, Vince McMahon is God, PG is bad, TNA is a clusterfuck, and so on.

All of these things have merit as their own opinions, and some of them are even based in truth, but it's just how everyone has made up their mind on such statements being finite and universal. They so blindly follow these credos that they can't even form their own opinions or be open to changing their mind, or at the very least recognizing that there is far more to everything than that. Shades of grey.

:y:

[St. Jimmy]

This thread sucks.

[The Mackem]

I always liked this one from WCW

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[Kane Knight]

I just dislike the black and white opinions at work in the IWC. Some people are so unreasonable.

E.G. Bret sucks at promos, WCW sucked, Vince Russo sucks, John Cena can't wrestle, Vince McMahon is God, PG is bad, TNA is a clusterfuck, and so on.

All of these things have merit as their own opinions, and some of them are even based in truth, but it's just how everyone has made up their mind on such statements being finite and universal. They so blindly follow these credos that they can't even form their own opinions or be open to changing their mind, or at the very least recognizing that there is far more to everything than that. Shades of grey.

I agree with you, and with the exception of TNA being a clusterfuck, I don't hold those opinions. At least, not unilaterally. I mean, for example, PG isn't automatically bad. JBL is a Poopy is. I think you can be family friendly and still good. I just don't think WWE is doing a great job of it.

However

Bret being the golden child is another one of those same opinions. You yourself said "I can't imagine how they could have actually seen those Raws and think that." Well, if it's shades of gray, you probably shouldn't dismiss it.

Besides, I think it comes from more than Montreal. This is a business which promotes cheering one side and booing the other. Granted, the business wants you to cheer the faces and boo the heels and the IWC doesn't break down that way, but the idea is they want a polar response. Is it a shock that we have such responses on almost everything?

Smarks aren't really different, they just exhibit the same behaviour aimed at different targets.

Anyway, I appreciate Bret, but I've always appreciated him more for his wrestling skills. Dating back to those classic Raws, even.

[Jeritron]

Bret as the golden boy seems to be the consenus in Canada, which to be fair does have a strong presence on the "IWC."

There's a whole school of thought that he can do no wrong, which is the reaction of the whole "Vince/Shawn were 100% right" mentality I mentioned. So you're right, they both exist and are equally narrow. The truth likely lies somewhere in between. I've grown indifferent to the whole thing. Though I tend to agree more with the Vince logic, I do like Bret and thing the whole situation was a shame no matter how it's sliced.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Bret can do wrong... but for some reason a bunch of people here choose to mostly see the wrongs. They go "Bret was good in the ring BUT"... no, Bret was the fucking man everywhere... but obviously he had a big fucking ego and he was stubborn, and not every match he had was good (See: Bret vs. Backlund WM 11). Not all the greats were always money. But like Jeritron here, people see in black and white. "Bret wasn't a great promo guy" lol stfu, learn the business properly then talk shit.

[BigDaddyCool]

Bret's promos are boring. He kind of just drones and doesn't put flash in them. They aren't horrible, just boring.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You also married a girl that doubled your fatass in weight, I hardly see how your taste can be taken seriously.

[BigDaddyCool]

Dale this is why no one takes you seriously. You bitch about moan about how I, RP, Moonface and a few others go over the line while you make cracks like that.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, but dude, you married a hippo.

[BigDaddyCool]

Yeah, but dude, you married a hippo.

Is this for the face for radio/voice for silent film crack from earlier?

[Blue Demon]

Yeah, but dude, I'm a bitch.

[Loose Cannon]

so for like 10 years it was his role in Montreal and now it's Bret's promos that we're all going to argue over? REALLY, REALLY? [/MIZ]

[Anybody Thrilla]

I love Bret, so I may be a bit biased, but I really don't understand what seemed to be this unbridled hatred for him on this forum. His body of work should speak for itself. He's classic.

[Kane Knight]

Is this for the face for radio/voice for silent film crack from earlier?

I think I made this first. But it was just spoofing Newstead's stupidity.

[Joesgonnakillyou]

I really think people who say bret has no charisma need to take a look at the fact he was the top guy in the WWE for a long time. He HAD to have charisma to do that.

This thread just shows that some people think charisma only equates to loudness or brashness. Those people are wrong.

and everything that Jeritron has said as well.

[BigDaddyCool]

I really think people who say bret has no charisma need to take a look at the fact he was the top guy in the WWE for a long time. He HAD to have charisma to do that.

This thread just shows that some people think charisma only equates to loudness or brashness. Those people are wrong.

and everything that Jeritron has said as well.

No he didn't. He was the top guy in one of the dullest periods in wrestling. His promos, while not horrible, were bland and boring. Sure he got his point across in a dull as dishwater sort of way, but in an entertainment business, that isn't a good thing.

Warrior was better.

[BigDaddyCool]

I think I made this first. But it was just spoofing Newstead's stupidity.

The question was rhetorical, ya clod.

[Theo Dious]

E.G. Bret sucks at promos, WCW sucked, Vince Russo sucks, John Cena can't wrestle, Vince McMahon is God, PG is bad, TNA is a clusterfuck, and so on.

... are you suggesting there is some kind of gray area where Russo doesn't suck?

[Kane Knight]

I really think people who say bret has no charisma need to take a look at the fact he was the top guy in the WWE for a long time. He HAD to have charisma to do that.

That doesn't mean jack shit.

However, people equate mic skills with charisma, and that's simply not the case.

The question was rhetorical, ya clod.

You so frequently miss the obvious I generally feel the need to explain. Don't get bitchy with me the three or for times you actually figured it out without me taking you by the hand and explaining it to you.

Be thankful those 3-4 times separate you from Autisticnoid06.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

BDC it once again goes to show how you can give but you can't take for shit. Honestly bro, you can say anything to me and I don't give a fuck.... guys have said tons of shit to me on the forum. I get pissed when you are disrespectful to people as a whole, to the forum as a whole.

I take shots at you like that to prove a point... namely, it's not nice when people go over the line with you, and maybe you'll think twice before you act like a total fucking tosser again.


I dno't care about your stupid ex wife or how big she was btw, it has nothing to do with you as a person. It doesn't change the fact that your opinion however, sucks a big left nut, and you often have no idea what you're talking about, and you're usually just trying to upset people.

[BigDaddyCool]

Dale, what the fuck are you talking about? How does responding with 2 sentence count as me not being able to take shit. Here you are freaking out over me casually responding to you.

Bret Hart sucks.

[Jeritron]

... are you suggesting there is some kind of gray area where Russo doesn't suck?

Yea. It's called the WWF. What did you think of Stone Cold vs Mr. McMahon, The Corporation, The Ministry, and HHH's heel turn and "The Game"? Among other things.

[Kane Knight]

BDC it once again goes to show how you can give but you can't take for shit. Honestly bro, you can say anything to me and I don't give a fuck.... guys have said tons of shit to me on the forum. I get pissed when you are disrespectful to people as a whole, to the forum as a whole.

I take shots at you like that to prove a point... namely, it's not nice when people go over the line with you, and maybe you'll think twice before you act like a total fucking tosser again.


I dno't care about your stupid ex wife or how big she was btw, it has nothing to do with you as a person. It doesn't change the fact that your opinion however, sucks a big left nut, and you often have no idea what you're talking about, and you're usually just trying to upset people.

Dale, BDC seems to take your criticism of his former wife better than you take his conduct, and conduct that is in no way personal to you. If you want to bitch about BDC, go start up your thirtieth thread in casual or something, but you're not so much proving a point as looking like a douche.

And I say this as someone BDC whines to when things bother him. You're not hitting the mark, and you're probably just going to make things worse. But still, this shit here is kinda pointless.

Jeritron, the only real grey area is that Russo's best ideas were not solely his, whereas his worst tended to be solely his and unfiltered. Triple H alone was propped up by tons of cannon fodder, without which he would have been just another failed heel turn wasting away in midcard Hell.

I mean, I can see an argument for him not being the world's worst booker, but it's hard to come up with praise for him.

[Jeritron]

I don't think Russo was a great booker on his own, by any means. The things that happened in WCW and TNA deserve all the mockery they get. I do, however, feel that he was a great idea man during one of the high points of wrestling.

Sure, he didn't do that on his own but from all accounts he was the most vocal and respected creative force in the company at the time, aside from Vin Mac.
He was behind those ideas and storylines, and with the creative control of McMahon to keep them grounded, they were great.
I don't think he's solely responsible for attitude, but I think he's unfairly labeled. Everyone seems to just say he sucks because it's the thing to say. It's true, but it's also true that he has been talented and successful.

WWE documentaries glaze over the fact that he did a lot for the company in a time when it needed a lot done for it. The things they say are true, but they are only half the story.
There's a reason why they brought him back in 2002, after everything that happened in WCW. They knew what he was capable of, under the right conditions.
He ultimately left the second time because of the changed relationship.

My basic thesis here is that there's more to the story than Vince Russo simply sucking, and there's credit to be had for him. It's a prime example of sweeping claims dominating the IWC

[BigDaddyCool]

Ok...I've been thinking about this whole Bret Hart thing. I think people liked him because as a face he stood for a really old school wrestling, working hard, and just being "talented" could get you to the top and it did. It is a very basic, fundamental reason. His promos for the most part reflect that. They are understated, straight forward and to the point.

He goes out, does his best, wrestles without a ton of flash but a lot of efficiency. In a era redefining itself, he was the breath of fresh air. Just I'm here to wrestle and win. I don't need to shout about it, I don't need to be a "genetic freak" all big and ripped. I just need to be good.

Reversely that is why Shawn Michaels was his prefect foil. Shawn was every bit as talented in the ring as Bret, but with a lot more flash and arrogance, but still that pure out ability to go. This is why there were such good opponents, and this is why we will forever be arguing Bret v Shawn because they are the dream match we never knew we had and never failed to deliver.