UFC 112 Discussion

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4626/icfcmethodgetw550cs1sim.jpg

Nice shirt. :cool:

[CSL]

Is that next seasons away top or something?

[CSL]

Kendall Grove vs Mark Munoz *BET THE HOUSE*

Winner: Mark Munoz

Method: KO - Punches - Round 2

[CSL]

I sure have had fun discussing this card with all you guys :)

[El Capitano Gatisto]

That was a SHIT fight. Nothing else to say about it really.

[IC Champion]

I saw Edgar win the last 2 rounds, and the 5th easily.

[CSL]

Holy shit

[IC Champion]

SUCK IT BJ

[IC Champion]

shouldnt have been worrying bout getttin own at 170 again by GSP. Instead lost to someone about 20 lbs lighter by the look of it.

[CSL]

So Anderson Silva has taken to playing comedian to keep the crowd entertained whilst his opponents stay as far away from him as possible

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Can believe this a fucking main event. What a joke.

[IC Champion]

Brazilians cannot wrestle, none of them, name me one who can, please.

[CSL]

Something tells me Dana White isn't too happy with that fight

[IC Champion]

LOL

[IC Champion]

Silva is a bitch.

[Corndad]

Congrats to Frankie. Went to same College and spoke with him a couple times. Real down to earth hard working kind of guy.

[Vastardikai]

I want Silva vs. GSP.

Or Hell, Silva vs a Strong Wrestler with a good chin. (I think Hendo would have won a rematch.)

[Reavant]

haha shut up.... henderson would come after him and the same thing would happen. I just cant believe that dana and joe silva thought this was a good idea to put him against a grappler again. TERRIBLE. Leites match all over again.

[Reavant]

Hughes finally got that standing (T)KO hes dreamed his entire career of having

[Vastardikai]

haha shut up.... henderson would come after him and the same thing would happen. I just cant believe that dana and joe silva thought this was a good idea to put him against a grappler again. TERRIBLE. Leites match all over again.

I dunno, I don't remember Leites landing anything, though.

[Reavant]

well he was petrified but it was the same thing... a world champion grappler with little striking and no real takedowns against anderson

[Reavant]

he only finishes guys he has to. If the guy wont engage, he doesnt feel threatened enough to finish or even try.

[Mr. C]

What really pisses me off is Anderson Silva should've fought Vitor Belfort, but Belfort was injured, so Demian Maia replaced him.

Quit playing around and do Silva vs. Belfort in August for the title, if Belfort is healthy. Just keep Silva down in Middleweight until he can meet Belfort, because Belfort will win easily if Silva defends himself like he has in past performances against Thales Leites, now Maia. When/if Silva does fight Belfort, neither man will play around. Silva knows Belfort is powerful and deadly fast. Giving Belfort a shot guarantees money, and Dana White realizes this. If Silva defeats Belfort, move him to another class. Better yet, if George St. Pierre feels like moving up, Silva/St. Pierre should happen. Just wait and see if Silva can beat Belfort. Now maybe I'm favoring Belfort because he's my all-time favorite fighter, but nobody else is able to trade punches against Silva. Silva's ducking is pretty amazing, but if Belfort were to catch him, he'd likely lose.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Well, with Penn dethroned, I think it's time for KenFlo to take over.


Silva was acting like a dick in that fight.

[IC Champion]

Well, with Penn dethroned, I think it's time for KenFlo to take over.


Silva was acting like a dick in that fight.

Pffft, Florian is overrated.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

How so? Besides Penn, he's pretty much the most dominant guy in the division.

[alvarado52]

Pffft, Florian is overrated.

GTFO. Florian is the man. I wanna see KenFlo/Sanchez 2 before i see either of them get another title shot.

[IC Champion]

How so? Besides Penn, he's pretty much the most dominant guy in the division.

It just looks like he came from Auschwitz. I just don't think he's as great as some say he is.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

GTFO. Florian is the man. I wanna see KenFlo/Sanchez 2 before i see either of them get another title shot.

I'd watch it. They haven't fought since TuF, have they?

[What Would Kevin Do?]

It just looks like he came from Auschwitz. I just don't think he's as great as some say he is.


Dude almost always looks impressive (minus the last BJ Penn fight.)

I think you're going to be hard pressed to find many people better than him in that division. Did you see how impressive he looked against Gomi? Gomi is great, and KenFlo made him look like a fucking amateur.

[IC Champion]

Gomi is past his prime, as has looked unimpressive for a while now, was surprised UFC signed him.

[alvarado52]

I'd watch it. They haven't fought since TuF, have they?

nope, havent met since....but they both talk about fighting each other every now and then. That'd be instant $$$ for the UFC, and a killer fight. Im a huge Kenflo fan, and im curious to see how Diego adjusts his game (if at all) after his ass whoopin' by BJ.

[Nark Order]

Gomi is past his prime, as has looked unimpressive for a while now, was surprised UFC signed him.

Florian is the best lightweight in the division IMO. I don't really see how he's an overrated competitor when you take into account how hard he trains, the guys he's beaten (some easily), and that he's got a ridiculously solid record. I am under the impression that you just don't like him for some reason because there's no real evidence of him being an overrated fighter.

[Krimzon7]

Florian is the goods. Silva acted like a maximum cunt in that fight tonight. Edgar had a superior game plan, and he executed it perfectly. I'd give Narcs testicle to have seen Dana's face in the 'championship rounds' of his Main Event!

[Krimzon7]

DANA SHOULD PAY THE FIGHT BONUSES OUT OF SILVA'S PAYCHECK

[Nark Order]

lol, I really want to see this fight now if it was as big as an atrocity as everyone is saying.

[Krimzon7]

Dana was fuming Check out the post fight conference He did a good job to keep his anger PG!

[owenbrown]

I watched this on delay at a bar tonight and the last <s> two</s> fight<s>s</s> sucked

[owenbrown]

actually scratch that...only the main event REALLY sucked

[Krimzon7]

Owen NOOO! Frankie/BJ's fight was far from sucky. It was a scientific bout where Edgar had a brilliant plan to out point, and out slick Penn. This was the sweetest 'sweet science' demonstration that I have seen in a long time. Frankie outworked, out punched and even out wrestled BJ Penn. He took the dude apart. Even with all that said the fight was still close! I appreciate the art, I loved the fight. Now if you're looking for a good old slobberknocker slugfest, I get that too, and I would love to watch an event with you to show the finer points of a pretty cool sport.

[owenbrown]

the Edgar/Penn fight could have been better.... what really pissed me off was the Silva fight...not as much as Dana White was pissed but still pissed off

[Mr. C]

The most likely guy for beating Anderson Silva is Vitor Belfort at 185.

There’s no chance that the UFC would risk George St. Pierre being clowned on like that for five rounds, so that fight is off the cards.

[Stickman]

GSP would not get "clowned" by Silva.

[The Show Off]

nope, havent met since....but they both talk about fighting each other every now and then. That'd be instant $$$ for the UFC, and a killer fight. Im a huge Kenflo fan, and im curious to see how Diego adjusts his game (if at all) after his ass whoopin' by BJ.

Diego moved back up to Welterweight... He's not going to fight Florian.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Silva seemed disinterested. Now he'll be motivated for his next fight.

Loved Edgar beating Penn. Penn fought like a true shithead, not going for a takedown after he was was told to by his corner. He could have easily won that fight, but he is a total shithead, as previously stated. Franky Edgar is plain and simply a work horse. Not going to be too flashy of a champion or much of a draw, but he's a good representative of the sport (unlike BJ who up until very recently was a complete asshat.)

[Krimzon7]

Frankie Edgar feels like a Rocky balboa type of fighter. He's gonna have some solid matchups coming up. I'd love to see Diego reconsider and take on Edgar for the lightweight strap.

[Krimzon7]

And I don't know how, but This shitface assclown Silva should be buried as much as you can be buried in MMA. I mean he has turned insta heel for Dana. So people will pay to see him get his ass handed to him now, that has to be good. Id make this mother fucker fight on such a short notice it would make me seem like the cruelest possible sonofabitch alive. He'd have like 3 more defenses/fights in 2010.

[Inadequacy]

So what's the problem with Silva?

[Impact!]

lol at people being angsty at Silva.

He was being abit of a tool, but was still entertaining. Also Edgar V Penn was a pretty solid fight, nothing fancy, but a competitive match. Can't believe how many people think that the fight was shit.

Also it will be interesting to see if Penn did in fact have an injury to his knee/leg or not.

[IC Champion]

Frankie Edgar feels like a Rocky balboa type of fighter. He's gonna have some solid matchups coming up. I'd love to see Diego reconsider and take on Edgar for the lightweight strap.

Everybody keeps saying they wanna see Sanchez/Florian or Sanchez/Edgar. Did nobody see the beat down Penn laid on Sanchez like three months ago? He didn't look anything like a champion, or even someone who should be fighting a contender like Florian. I may have been exagerating when I called Florian overrated, but Sanchez IS overrated.

Sanchez is going to move up to 170 and get destroyed by Swick or Kosckeck.

[Reavant]

lol at people being angsty at Silva.

He was being abit of a tool, but was still entertaining. Also Edgar V Penn was a pretty solid fight, nothing fancy, but a competitive match. Can't believe how many people think that the fight was shit.

Also it will be interesting to see if Penn did in fact have an injury to his knee/leg or not.

he was entertaining the first two rounds... he ran like kaleb starns the other three

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Courtesy of www.mmajunkie.com

Dana White "embarassed" with UFC 112 main event, promises to "make it up" to fans
by John Morgan on Apr 11, 2010 at 1:30 pm ET
The story of Saturday's "UFC 112: Invincible" event should have been Frankie Edgar's historic upset of B.J. Penn, but Anderson Silva's early showboating, followed by an absolute refusal to engage his opponent in the latter rounds, ruined "The Answer's" chance of being the night's hot topic.

UFC president Dana White did little to hide his disgust for his middleweight champion's latest performance – both at cageside, which he left before the fight was over, and in the evening's post-fight press conference.

But White stood firm in the line of fire and owned up to his company's failure to deliver fireworks in Abu Dhabi, and he swore he'd make the night up to UFC fans.

"This was a historic event for us," White said. "The arena tonight was incredible. The energy was amazing, and to end it the way that we did was an embarrassment for me, the Fertittas, the UFC and the sport in general.

"I apologize, and I will – I don't know how yet – but I will make this up to the fans who bought this [expletive] tonight."

Silva dominated opponent Demian Maia for five rounds, but the action was hardly worthy of the champion's reputation as one of the world's best fighters. But while Silva's late passivity was indefensible, some fans didn't mind the early antics.

White was not among them.

"I didn't like it from the first minute of the first round," White said. "Nobody has been more supportive of Anderson Silva than me – talking about him being the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world. Even after a couple of goofy performances, I'll call them, I still stood behind him and supported him.

"I think this guy is incredibly talented, and in the first couple of rounds, he was showboating and doing whatever he was doing, and that's not what I'm in to. I don't like it. If you're that talented, be Mike Tyson. Go in and finish it in two minutes."

While some MMA observers have argued that Silva's early antics were a result of the Brazilian simply trying to entertain, White argued that he'd rather his fighters focus on finishing fights.

"I'd rather have somebody say, 'Let's not buy the Anderson Silva fight tonight because he knocks people out in two minutes,' rather than, 'He runs around like a jackass for five rounds,'" White said.

Immediately following the fight, the latest in a string of disappointing performances from Silva that also includes ho-hum wins over Thales Leites and Patrick Cote, many began to question the champion's place on the list of the world's best pound-for-pound fighters. White refused to question Silva's talent, but he was honest about his concerns.

"As mad as I am right now, he's one of the most talented guys in the business," White said. "I don't know what I'm going to do to him right now. I don't know. I honestly don't know what to say. I'm so blown away and disgusted and saddened."

White's frustration was palpable throughout the press conference, and he'll have a challenge with future operations as Silva's performance further marred the reputation of a fighter that has the ability to entertain all fans – both casual and hardcore.

But putting Silva in a future main event would almost certainly spell pay-per-view disaster, and White didn't shy away from that reality.

"Anderson Silva might be the first champion in history fighting on a prelim," White said. "How do you sell Anderson Silva after tonight? How do you do it? People don't want to see that [expletive]. I don't want to see it.

"It makes me sick to my stomach."

Fans who spent $45 to watch the latest Silva oddity have been quick to point fingers. A reporter at the evening's press conference even asked if the UFC's new partner, Flash Entertainment, was to blame for Silva's behavior.

White said he would have a private conversation with Silva to determine who was responsible and how it would be fixed moving forward. In the meantime, the UFC exec said he would figure out a way to set things straight with the people that matter most.

"I'm going to make it up to the fans – that I guarantee you," White said. "I just don't know how yet."

For complete coverage of UFC 112, including the night's official results, check out the UFC Events section of MMAjunkie.com.

[Crossrine]

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[Heros Welcome]

What did Anderson Silva say during last night's controversial UFC 112 main event that even has Silva's fellow countrymen turning their backs on the middleweight champion?

The MMA community is still reeling from the bizarre behavior of Anderson Silva in the main event of UFC 112. Word came out after the the fight from Demian Maia stating that he was disrespected and cursed at. Maia opted not to expand on this, but a new article on the Fighters Only Magazine Website sheds light on this.

Fans of Silva's native Brazil heard what Silva was speaking during the fight last night in Portuguese. Silva used terms against Maia that were very hateful and disrespectful that have made Silva infamous now in his home country.

MMA message forums in the Portuguese language have been talking about Silva's insults against Maia during the fight. Toward the end of the second round, Silva allegedly stated in Portuguese, "Bate na minha cara playboy." This is apparently translated into English as "Come on, hit me in the face playboy."

"Playboy" is actually is a tremendous insult in Brazil because of the class divisions in the country between rich and poor. In Brazil, playboys are hedonistic rich people that are pampered and care nothing for poor people and know nothing about actual life.

Silva also is said to have stated "Cade o Jiu-Jitsu?" or in English, "Where is your Jiu-Jitsu?"

When Maia could not get Silva to the floor, Silva is said to have shouted "Get up off your ass and get hit some more."

The tone of Brazilian MMA forums right now is that many fans are shocked and disappointed by Anderson with his performance and comments.

A poster that goes by the handle of Gomes on the Portal do Vale Tudo stated the following:

"Wow, the guy went mad. American are usually super socially-conscious with this kind of discrimination, when they discover what he said, heads will fly. This guy has lost all notion of what you can do in a fight. This type of social/personal insult is the equivalent of ‘Iron' Mike Tyson saying 'I'll f*ck until you love me, bitch!'"

[alvarado52]

yknow, Dana White can be a douche, but he does has a point...if youre that good, dont show boat, knock a F*cker out, yknow? Look at the Penn/Sanchez fight...Penn clearly won that, but Penn tried finishing him the entire time...he didnt just take a lead on the judges cards and protect it, he took the risk of getting caught, in the name of knocking him out.


Thats what great fighters do.

[Loose Cannon]

I've totally done a 180 with Silva and am loving him right now. The guy can do whatever the hell he wants in my opinion. He's the best fighter in the world and if he wants to embarass you, he will. He gets that right.

[RP]

I hope they feed him to GSP now. I'm 100% positive GSP would smash this guy. GSP is a true war machine.

[CSL]

I think Silva would cave his face in

[Loose Cannon]

I'm watching the fight now with Maia and it's hillarious. Silva doesn't even guard his face half the time, he stops to scratch his nose like a foot away from him and he's doing his No Mercy N64 Taunts right in front of him. Like come on, is this for real????

[Stickman]

Can somebody post the silva fight, I need to see this.

[Reavant]

go on mmalinker.com its all there

[Krimzon7]

Silva should be forced to fight a break neck schedule since the schedule he's fighting at isn't challeging enough for him. I'd make that cunt run the gauntlet. Catchweight fights, Title Defenses, the whole fucking nine. If he has a problem with fighting four five more fights this calendar year, then fuck him, he can quit.

EDIT: Of course, this will be done at serverly reduced salary. I hated Roy Jones Junior for taking decisions instead of finishing fights. This is the pussiest thing I've seen in a long time.

[Reavant]

im sure the first thing dana wants to happen is to force silva to do something he doesnt want to which would force him to leave and get picked up by strikeforce

[alvarado52]

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pt 2 (http://www.mmaroot.com/anderson-silva-vs-demian-maia-fight-video-%E2%80%93-ufc-112-part-2/)

[Krimzon7]

im sure the first thing dana wants to happen is to force silva to do something he doesnt want to which would force him to leave and get picked up by strikeforce

I totally get that logic that you don't want such a draw going to another promotion... but at what point does one fighter, no matter how talented, become more important than a promotion?

Besides, can Strikeforce even match paydays with UFC? and if Silva is about the competition, can Strikeforce produce that from top to bottom? As much as Silva is the 'best fighter in the world', UFC is the best promotion, there has to be some pushback from White

[Inadequacy]

Watching Maia in this fight is like watching one of those youtube videos that just keeps looping for half an hour.

Unreal.

[Jura]

yknow, Dana White can be a douche, but he does has a point...if youre that good, dont show boat, knock a F*cker out, yknow? Look at the Penn/Sanchez fight...Penn clearly won that, but Penn tried finishing him the entire time...he didnt just take a lead on the judges cards and protect it, he took the risk of getting caught, in the name of knocking him out.


Thats what great fighters do.

There could possibly be people that told him not to finish the fight so quick and be as entertaining as he could but he took it a little too far since it was the first show in a place like Dubai and was important to the company.

[Reavant]

I totally get that logic that you don't want such a draw going to another promotion... but at what point does one fighter, no matter how talented, become more important than a promotion?

Besides, can Strikeforce even match paydays with UFC? and if Silva is about the competition, can Strikeforce produce that from top to bottom? As much as Silva is the 'best fighter in the world', UFC is the best promotion, there has to be some pushback from White

Yes they can considering silva isnt exactly making millions. The competition may not be there, but that argument only holds water if silva is in fact playing to his competition. (an argument dana white started not anderson) And if they really wanted to push him, they could get guys or send him to japan (which would solve any pay problems considering fighters make bank when they fight in japan). Not to mention strikeforce would let silva box and do whatever else he wanted.

[Krimzon7]

No bullshit, thanks for the enlightenment Reavant.

[Stickman]

Give him Rampage on Spike TV

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

If they want him to perform, give him guys who'll take the fight to him, not Thales Leites and Demian Maia. Now I'm not sayin Silva isn't to blame, he was being a total knobhead... but what the hell did Dana expect after the Leites fights. Silva is an oddity and he doesn't like fighting guys he feels are well below him and are either very low level strikers/bangers (Cote) or pure grapplers (Maia/Leites). Give him top quaility hombres, and we'll see a better Silva. Give him Chael Sonnen who'll work tirelessly to take him down, give him Rampage Jackson, give him Shogun motherfucking Rua... I don't care.... but make it a fight he could ACTUALLY fucking lose so he fights with a semblance of urgency.

Don't one hundred per cent blame the fighter for absolutely atrocious matchmaking.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

PS. I realize those dudes were tied up for this fight... however, there had to be someone more suitable than Demian Maia. That's what you get for letting Hendo go to Strikeforce you fuckwits.

[IC Champion]

I think Silva would cave his face in

Are you serious? GSP would shoot, and Silva would go down, this isnt Maia shooting, this is fucking GSP the best wrestler in MMA, oh yeah, and he's been in karate since he was a child, so it's not like he's a chump on his feet, and is atleast good enough there to avoid getting hit by Silva. What does Silva do once he is down and mounted, I know he choked out Handerson, but Henderson isn't as good on the ground as GSP, and he was also like 39, so he'd seen better days.

[Johnny McNasty]

PPV was okay. Which is disappointing as I was looking forward to this one for a while now. Frankie def brought it to Bj Penn and deserved to take the title from him. Anderson really wasn't into this fight at all, and I don't blame him. Maia with all due respect just isn't in Silva's league. Was pissed off that Anderson refused to finish Maia, as he could've easily done so at any time.

Silva would knock GSP out before he had a chance to shoot. There is no avoiding Anderson's strikes his accuracy is almost perfect.

[Reavant]

Are you serious? GSP would shoot, and Silva would go down, this isnt Maia shooting, this is fucking GSP the best wrestler in MMA, oh yeah, and he's been in karate since he was a child, so it's not like he's a chump on his feet, and is atleast good enough there to avoid getting hit by Silva. What does Silva do once he is down and mounted, I know he choked out Handerson, but Henderson isn't as good on the ground as GSP, and he was also like 39, so he'd seen better days.

this was my post in the other thread..


And dont get too caught up in saying GSP would take him down easily, because ALL of GSP's takedowns come from his opponents being off balance in the sense he cuts under them when they come after him. Thats basically what anderson does with striking.

Basically, we would see two guys looking at each other waiting for the other to engage. However, once GSP heard the boos, he would engage and would then get hurt.

GSP is not the best wrestler in mma, hes the best athlete. he mixes everything together perfectly. makes you think he will strike and cuts under you on the return. makes you think he will wrestle and tags you on the feet. if he were just diving in for strait takedowns he wouldnt have much more success in all his fights that maia did against silva. to further this point, look at the two ncaa champion wrestlers that fought earlier on the card and how they had trouble taking people down because they were diving for legs.

also he choked out henderson because he had him knocked out not because he outclassed him.

[KillerWolf]

It just looks like he came from Auschwitz. I just don't think he's as great as some say he is.

Pretty fuckin' stupid answer.

Actually, he looks like Ben Stiller, but he is, hands down, among the very best at 155.

You know nothing of Florian's work.

[KillerWolf]

Honestly, I was scratching my head at the matchmaking regarding Silva v. Maia. My understanding at the Maia/Marquardt fight (in which Maia was UPENDED) was that the winner would be the #1 contender. Then Marquardt gets Sonnen and Maia gets a title shot?

[Impact!]

Because Sonnen beat Marquardt, and Sonnen/Marquardt/Belfort were unable to fight due to injuries, and Demian was the highest ranked opponent available.

[KillerWolf]

Because Sonnen beat Marquardt, and Sonnen/Marquardt/Belfort were unable to fight due to injuries, and Demian was the highest ranked opponent available.

thank you, sir.

[KillerWolf]

This is what Dana White and the UFC should be appologizing for:

UFC 112 in general. i mean, it was a shitty card. and they've been putting on a lot of shitty fight cards lately. a lot of people will say, "yeah, well, they're following a business model that calls for them to pump out as many PPVs as possible." that really shouldnt make you happy. that's like judging the merits of a motion picture by how well it does at the box office.

they do more than one PPV per month. instead of 1 great card in the month of May, we get two mediocre to pretty good cards. and on and on it goes like this. the fight cards are getting to be pretty damned watered down IMO. congradulations to the UFC for the fact that they can put out such a big number of events, but personally, i'd be happier with half the number of PPVs.

[Reavant]

This is what Dana White and the UFC should be appologizing for:

UFC 112 in general. i mean, it was a shitty card. and they've been putting on a lot of shitty fight cards lately. a lot of people will say, "yeah, well, they're following a business model that calls for them to pump out as many PPVs as possible." that really shouldnt make you happy. that's like judging the merits of a motion picture by how well it does at the box office.

they do more than one PPV per month. instead of 1 great card in the month of May, we get two mediocre to pretty good cards. and on and on it goes like this. the fight cards are getting to be pretty damned watered down IMO. congradulations to the UFC for the fact that they can put out such a big number of events, but personally, i'd be happier with half the number of PPVs.

shut up. hindsight is 20-20. What classifys as a "good" card for you? Who do you want on these great cards?


This drives me nuts when people say this shit. Im assuming you want less ppv's so that you can get these "stacked" cards where we have all the stars fighting at the same time. (which i know your going to say thats not the case but based on your gripe is the only solution)

Heres what would happen if they did what you wanted.... There would be no stage for upcoming talent. No coming out parties like jon jones vs stephon bonnar, or dos santos vs werdum.

With no way for the public to get behind these new rising stars because the ppv slots are reserved for the current stars, the star power will fade because the same sets of guys fighting on these cards will be beating eachother with no influx of newer talent.

Then again I could assume that your so pissed with these last two cards because the fights didnt turn out the way you wanted. Lets look at the results... ufc 111, GSP and fitch win by decisions and in ufc 112 frankie and silva did the same. So im assuming you dont like decisions considering 3 of those were 25 minute ones. OKAY...


First, Those fights that people said sucked were TITLE FIGHTS!!! I dont know if you figured this out but when theres a title fight, you can pretty much bet there is some star power in the fight JUST SAYING. By the way there were two title fights at ufc 112.
So the UFC delivered on quality fighters by the mere inclusion of title holders... and i assume you knew this yet your still bitching and blaming the ufc for a watered down card that has two title fights... :wtf:

Second, the ufc cant control what happens in the fight. whether theres 20 cards a year or 2, GSP would have still smothered hardy, BJ would have still been out pointed by edgar, and silva would have still tripped on acid.

Third, in the last two ppv's carwin nearly killed mir, munoz had an awesome come from behind victory, phil davis had one of the coolest looking anaconda chokes ever seen, and dos anjos had a masterful ground performance. Whats weird is outside of carwin and mir, none of the other fighters were big name guys

GTFO with that shit

[KillerWolf]

[QUOTE]shut up. hindsight is 20-20. then i must be clairvoyant, because IMO Silva v. Maia was pretty ill-concieved from the begining.

This drives me nuts when people say this shit. Im assuming you want less ppv's so that you can get these "stacked" cards where we have all the stars fighting at the same time. (which i know your going to say thats not the case but based on your gripe is the only solution) you KNOW absolutely nothing. stacked cards is exactly what i want. especially at $55 a pop. and, btw, two years ago, they were putting on better cards.

Heres what would happen if they did what you wanted.... There would be no stage for upcoming talent. No coming out parties like jon jones vs stephon bonnar, or dos santos vs werdum.

With no way for the public to get behind these new rising stars because the ppv slots are reserved for the current stars, the star power will fade because the same sets of guys fighting on these cards will be beating eachother with no influx of newer talent. good news and bad news. the good news is that i am wrong and you are absolutely correct, as always. the bad news is that you are only correct if you live in some fantasy world where Spike TV does not exist, and there is no such thing as UFC Fight Night, or UFC on VS.

Then again I could assume that your so pissed with these last two cards because the fights didnt turn out the way you wanted. Lets look at the results... ufc 111, GSP and fitch win by decisions and in ufc 112 frankie and silva did the same. So im assuming you dont like decisions considering 3 of those were 25 minute ones. OKAY... you make a lot of assumptions.

First, Those fights that people said sucked were TITLE FIGHTS!!! I dont know if you figured this out but when theres a title fight, you can pretty much bet there is some star power in the fight JUST SAYING. By the way there were two title fights at ufc 112.
So the UFC delivered on quality fighters by the mere inclusion of title holders... and i assume you knew this yet your still bitching and blaming the ufc for a watered down card that has two title fights... :wtf:

Second, the ufc cant control what happens in the fight. whether theres 20 cards a year or 2, GSP would have still smothered hardy, BJ would have still been out pointed by edgar, and silva would have still tripped on acid.

Third, in the last two ppv's carwin nearly killed mir, munoz had an awesome come from behind victory, phil davis had one of the coolest looking anaconda chokes ever seen, and dos anjos had a masterful ground performance. Whats weird is outside of carwin and mir, none of the other fighters were big name guys

GTFO with that shit
okay...how to respond to all of this? okay, check this out, dude: i could care less about how many title fights are on a card. i'm talking about stacking the undercards more. i rarely buy a PPV just for the main event. Silva v. Maia was not a fight i wanted to see because there wasnt much question about the outcome. i didnt really give Edgar much of a shot against Penn either, though. the GSP/Hardy fight went down pretty much exactly how i expected it to go down (so, i didnt pay money for either of the last two PPVs.) i figure that's par for the course when you have dominant champions like Penn, GSP, and Silva, who seem to outclass everyone else in their division. THEREFORE, THEY NEED TO STACK THE UNDERCARDS MORE.

oh, and it drives you crazy when people say this type of shit? ya know, wishing for fewer, higher quality PPVs isnt being a dick. i'm just standing up for my rights as a consumer...and as a fan. but you wanna come off like anyone who complains just doesnt know what the fuck they're talking about, and the UFC has never put on a shit PPV. YOU need to GTFO with THAT shit.

[Impact!]

What are you on about? The undercards for the last two PPV's have been solid.

[Reavant]

okay...how to respond to all of this? okay, check this out, dude: i could care less about how many title fights are on a card. i'm talking about stacking the undercards more. i rarely buy a PPV just for the main event. Silva v. Maia was not a fight i wanted to see because there wasnt much question about the outcome. i didnt really give Edgar much of a shot against Penn either, though. the GSP/Hardy fight went down pretty much exactly how i expected it to go down (so, i didnt pay money for either of the last two PPVs.) i figure that's par for the course when you have dominant champions like Penn, GSP, and Silva, who seem to outclass everyone else in their division.

you are so full of shit with this its unreal


THEREFORE, THEY NEED TO STACK THE UNDERCARDS MORE.

oh, and it drives you crazy when people say this type of shit? ya know, wishing for fewer, higher quality PPVs isnt being a dick. i'm just standing up for my rights as a consumer...and as a fan. but you wanna come off like anyone who complains just doesnt know what the fuck they're talking about, and the UFC has never put on a shit PPV. YOU need to GTFO with THAT shit.


The undercards were good! lets look at the last one... you had munoz who was an ncaa champ wrestler vs grove who was a TUF champion. You had two fast rising, undefeated light heavyweights in phil davis and gustafsson. you had a guy with a lot of momentum on a winning streak in Etim get upset and finished by dos anjos. And finally you had a former welterweight champion vs a gracie (now granted that fight letf much to be desired, but NO ONE even YOU would have thought MATT HUGHES would turn a fight into a kickboxing match. again the 20/20 thing) .... you bitching about that undercard is being a dick

You know what, how about you tell me a card you though was unreal or that had a stacked undercard by your rational.

[Reavant]

[QUOTE=Reavant;3024741]





good news and bad news. the good news is that i am wrong and you are absolutely correct, as always. the bad news is that you are only correct if you live in some fantasy world where Spike TV does not exist, and there is no such thing as UFC Fight Night, or UFC on VS.



First of all, not that many people watch the ufc fight nights considering the marketing for them is not as strong as a ppv, and the fact that only rarely is there a stellar main event is put on them.

I can see you dont know how it works so ill explain it to you... unknown guys fight on these, rattle off a win or two and then get a shot on the bigger stage on a ppv broadcast where everyone has to see them because they all tuned in to see the heavily advertised main event.

Second, with all the slots on a ppv taken up by current stars, there would be no proving ground on a ppv card for rising guys to perform. Ppv events are in bigger arenas and have bigger crowds. It is a completely different environment than a fight night.

[Krimzon7]

The last two cards were entertaining to me. I can't understand the problem. I saw solid knockouts, submissions, and great fights that went the distance. I don't always WANT to see 'stars'. I want to see great fights. And the UFC gives you a chance to see both. I am looking forward to seeing Kimbo (I'm a whore, I KNOW), but I want to see Ryan Bader on a card too and Bones Jones, and the new kids more than I want to see GSP.

[KillerWolf]

[QUOTE]you are so full of shit with this its unreal

explain. no? i didnt think so.

The undercards were good! lets look at the last one... you had munoz who was an ncaa champ wrestler vs grove who was a TUF champion. You had two fast rising, undefeated light heavyweights in phil davis and gustafsson. you had a guy with a lot of momentum on a winning streak in Etim get upset and finished by dos anjos. And finally you had a former welterweight champion vs a gracie (now granted that fight letf much to be desired, but NO ONE even YOU would have thought MATT HUGHES would turn a fight into a kickboxing match. again the 20/20 thing) .... you bitching about that undercard is being a dick a lot of the time (most of the time) the undercards turn out to be more entertaining than the main events (as in the best fight of the night ends up being on the undercard.) but a lot of the time, when i look at the undercard, i have never even heard of half the people on it. that makes it very hard for me to say, "yes, that's a fight i want to see, or, yes, these are fights i will pay $55 to watch." why this logic makes no sense to you is beyond me. i'm sorry.

You know what, how about you tell me a card you though was unreal or that had a stacked undercard by your rational. okay, i'll do that, but let me at least put some thought into it instead of just pulling some fight card outta my ass (as the UFC has appeared to do lately).

[Krimzon7]

Wolf, I get where your'e coming from. Most people equate 'I will pay $55 to watch _____' and ____ beter be somebody I know. Honestly, I am a fan of fighting, and I could care less who does it, as long as they can teach me something new, or show me someting sick. I think that Dana, and the UFC bank on a few stars to pull your train of thought in, while he gets the other people to pull my train of thought in.

AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BOTH.

You cant make everyone happy.

Personally I'd be bored to death with a bunch of stacked fighters on a card, because sometimes those assholes tend to fight to keep a title, or to perserve a reputation.

[Reavant]

a lot of the time (most of the time) the undercards turn out to be more entertaining than the main events (as in the best fight of the night ends up being on the undercard.) but a lot of the time, when i look at the undercard, i have never even heard of half the people on it. that makes it very hard for me to say, "yes, that's a fight i want to see, or, yes, these are fights i will pay $55 to watch." why this logic makes no sense to you is beyond me. i'm sorry.



Do you not see how you completely contradicted yourself in this statement????

THEYRE THE FUCKING UNDERCARD!!! theyre not supposed to be the guys your tuning in exclusively to see. Thats why on the countdown shows and tv commercials, you only hear about the main and co-main events. Stop being such an ignorant snob.

[Reavant]

Wolf, I get where your'e coming from. Most people equate 'I will pay $55 to watch _____' and ____ beter be somebody I know. Honestly, I am a fan of fighting, and I could care less who does it, as long as they can teach me something new, or show me someting sick. I think that Dana, and the UFC bank on a few stars to pull your train of thought in, while he gets the other people to pull my train of thought in.

AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BOTH.

You cant make everyone happy.

Personally I'd be bored to death with a bunch of stacked fighters on a card, because sometimes those assholes tend to fight to keep a title, or to perserve a reputation.

EXACTLY....


Oh and by the way, had BJ finished edgar or Silva knocked maia's head off, no one would have said the card or fights sucked regardless of how the undercard went. Silva's performance alone killed that entire card.

[KillerWolf]

[QUOTE=KillerWolf;3025358]

First of all, not that many people watch the ufc fight nights considering the marketing for them is not as strong as a ppv, and the fact that only rarely is there a stellar main event is put on them.



pfff. you say I'M full of shit?!?

1. fans of MMA and of the UFC watch the live Fight Nights. it's the same people who buy the PPVs, and probably more, because it's FREE. the marketing doesnt need to be as strong because it's FREE. soccer moms and other douche bags who are not interested in MMA are not buying PPVs because of the persuasive marketing campaign.

2. stellar main event on a UFC Fight Night? maybe not, but more times than not, the cards have been generally more entertaining than a PPV card. and, even though the main events on those cards may not be for a title, they are usually fights that i find interesting.
[QUOTE]I can see you dont know how it works so ill explain it to you... unknown guys fight on these, rattle off a win or two and then get a shot on the bigger stage on a ppv broadcast where everyone has to see them because they all tuned in to see the heavily advertised main event.

that's exactly how it should work. what i'm telling you is that a lot of the time, i've never seen some of the undercard guys on TV anywhere. it could be that i'm mistaken or i saw them get a win and they just didnt make an impression on me, but most of the guys who i work out with have never heard of them either - and i'm talking about a group of people with a solid interest in MMA. we're more than just casual fans.

secondly, what you're saying is part of what i'm complaining about. a $55 PPV, number 1, shouldn't come around every two or three weeks, and, number 2, shouldn't consist of a mainstream main event and a bunch of random filler.

Second, with all the slots on a ppv taken up by current stars, there would be no proving ground on a ppv card for rising guys to perform. Ppv events are in bigger arenas and have bigger crowds. It is a completely different environment than a fight night.

people like "Bones" Jones and Bader are already proven. thoses two guys, especially Jones, already have my interest. the proving ground should be the free events. and i'm not saying that they can't have one or two unknowns or little knowns on a PPV. but, if they pumped out the free events at even half the rate that they pump out these PPVs, those little known guys would be ready to help carry a PPV in no time at all.

[Krimzon7]

EXACTLY....


Oh and by the way, had BJ finished edgar or Silva knocked maia's head off, no one would have said the card or fights sucked regardless of how the undercard went. Silva's performance alone killed that entire card.

Bingo! I couldn't knock the card, cause it was entertaining. Those fighters went to Abu Dhabi and put on a show.....all but one :rant:. The fact that Silva laid an egg and it threw the entire card into the shitter, is an interesting statement.

One could argue that this is why people shouldn't be banking on ONE star to sell a ppv, as much as that they hsould be selling the experience of every fight being exciting.

Those people may not have much business sense though!

[KillerWolf]

yes. you (both) have a point about that. that less people would be complaining if Anderson Silva hadnt made such a mockery of things. but that isnt necessarily the case with me. my original point was that the UFC should be appologizing for the fight card and similar fight cards in general, not for Anderson Silva's behavior. before this whole fight card went down, i had already determined that i would not be paying money for it because nothing on the fight card captured my interest.

and, what youre saying is what i'm saying. UFC shouldnt (morally) be banking on one star to sell a PPV or even on one fight, but that is what they seem to be leaning towards lately. and, no, i probably dont have much business sense. but that doesnt make me an asshole for wanting pure coke instead of the shit that's been stepped on so that the supplier makes more money...if you know what i mean.

[KillerWolf]

Do you not see how you completely contradicted yourself in this statement????

THEYRE THE FUCKING UNDERCARD!!! theyre not supposed to be the guys your tuning in exclusively to see. Thats why on the countdown shows and tv commercials, you only hear about the main and co-main events. Stop being such an ignorant snob.

no i didnt contradict myself at all. what i'm saying is that i have to lay my money down BEFORE i see the fights. if i dont know who half the people are, it makes it hard to bank on them being good fights.

[Impact!]

my original point was that the UFC should be appologizing for the fight card and similar fight cards in general,

Once again, what are you on about. The last few cards have been great.

In fact, I can't think of 1 recent card that has been bad.

[Krimzon7]

yes. you (both) have a point about that. that less people would be complaining if Anderson Silva hadnt made such a mockery of things. but that isnt necessarily the case with me. my original point was that the UFC should be appologizing for the fight card and similar fight cards in general, not for Anderson Silva's behavior. before this whole fight card went down, i had already determined that i would not be paying money for it because nothing on the fight card captured my interest.

and, what youre saying is what i'm saying. UFC shouldnt (morally) be banking on one star to sell a PPV or even on one fight, but that is what they seem to be leaning towards lately. and, no, i probably dont have much business sense. but that doesnt make me an asshole for wanting pure coke instead of the shit that's been stepped on so that the supplier makes more money...if you know what i mean.


ALL I HEARD WAS COKE!!!!! :shifty:

[Reavant]

no i didnt contradict myself at all. what i'm saying is that i have to lay my money down BEFORE i see the fights. if i dont know who half the people are, it makes it hard to bank on them being good fights.

You are spewing complete nonsense considering people who are "big time" can fight terrible fights. but what examples could i possibly give...

[Reavant]

pfff. you say I'M full of shit?!?

1. fans of MMA and of the UFC watch the live Fight Nights. it's the same people who buy the PPVs, and probably more, because it's FREE. the marketing doesnt need to be as strong because it's FREE. soccer moms and other douche bags who are not interested in MMA are not buying PPVs because of the persuasive marketing campaign.

Thank you for this really. you almost make it too easy... Just because it is easier to see doesnt mean that more people watch them. Fight nights are done in the middle of week generally, and outside of a big fan of fighting, the general public doesnt know theyre going on.

Also droves of people fill up sports bars and a buddies house to chip in on a fight on saturday nights. There isnt just hardcore fight fans at these either... husbands drag those soccer moms and friends drag those douche bags to these events. On top of that people who are not hardcore fans generally associate a night of fights with drinking as well and given the fact that most people work during the week... well you get the point.

Oh and good thing that the demographic for ufc isnt soccer moms

2. stellar main event on a UFC Fight Night? maybe not, but more times than not, the cards have been generally more entertaining than a PPV card. and, even though the main events on those cards may not be for a title, they are usually fights that i find interesting.

so basically your saying that these fight night cards with no name fighters have turned out more entertaining that the ppvs with big name guys, yet your bitching about ppv cards with no name guys on it :wtf:

that's exactly how it should work. what i'm telling you is that a lot of the time, i've never seen some of the undercard guys on TV anywhere. it could be that i'm mistaken or i saw them get a win and they just didnt make an impression on me, but most of the guys who i work out with have never heard of them either - and i'm talking about a group of people with a solid interest in MMA. we're more than just casual fans.

secondly, what you're saying is part of what i'm complaining about. a $55 PPV, number 1, shouldn't come around every two or three weeks, and, number 2, shouldn't consist of a mainstream main event and a bunch of random filler.

then dont buy the damn cards you snob

people like "Bones" Jones and Bader are already proven. thoses two guys, especially Jones, already have my interest. the proving ground should be the free events. and i'm not saying that they can't have one or two unknowns or little knowns on a PPV. but, if they pumped out the free events at even half the rate that they pump out these PPVs, those little known guys would be ready to help carry a PPV in no time at all. [/QUOTE]

jones made his debut on ppv. everyone thought bonnar was going to kill him. without that fight we may not know who he is. Had he started out on fight nights, he wouldnt have risen as fast, and bader is a TUF winner so he earned his slot.

[KillerWolf]

dude, we're just talking in circles. Anderson Silva is "big time" and i dont think i've paid to see most of his title defenses. i dont buy a fight just for the main event. (are we clear on that? seriously, i need a yes or a no, because without you understanding that premis, we cannot continue this conversation)

if i look at an undercard, and i don't know who half of the fighters are, it becomes exceedingly difficult for me to say, "ooh, yeah! that should be a good fight. this is a solid card. i will buy this PPV." (now do you understand the logic behind that premis? if you don't then please just forget the whole thing. you've got the inside scoop, and i am just some child who doesnt know what he wants, and we'll just leave it at that. )

[Krimzon7]

WHAT ABOUT THE COKE!!!!!!! Don't forget that premise!

Seriously, The one thing that I feel UFC could use instead of all those fight replay shows on Spike is a weekly show highlighting/building the new stars. While the PPV builds are decent, how else will we get to know the new kids? I guess that is what the fight shows COULD do, but most of the time we're getting Young Rich Franklin vs. Jens Pulver, or whatever... Like why can't we get some more shine on the undercard/micard guys to help build their star power. Does this make any sense?



IT WOULD IF YOU WOULD COME OFF THAT COKE!

[KillerWolf]

WHAT ABOUT THE COKE!!!!!!! Don't forget that premise!

Seriously, The one thing that I feel UFC could use instead of all those fight replay shows on Spike is a weekly show highlighting/building the new stars. While the PPV builds are decent, how else will we get to know the new kids? I guess that is what the fight shows COULD do, but most of the time we're getting Young Rich Franklin vs. Jens Pulver, or whatever... Like why can't we get some more shine on the undercard/micard guys to help build their star power. Does this make any sense?



IT WOULD IF YOU WOULD COME OFF THAT COKE!dude, i am almost POSITIVE that that's exactly what i've been saying: "build up the new guys on the free Spike TV (and now VS) cards, and stack the PPVs with known comodities."

[Krimzon7]

I am just as positive that I agreed with you a couple posts ago