Do you remember

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

How bad Undertaker was between 2000-2002 when he finally turned heel again? I don't know if it was because he was heel he could finally work again and was fresh, but god, he was fucking atrocious in the ring.

He had about one good match before he turned heel again and that was against HHH at X7 when HHH was a machine, at the top of his game.

Does anyone know what his deal was at this time? Is there any light that can be shed as to why he was soooooooooooooooooooooooo fucking bad?

[Xero]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/sandman3g/Wrestling/stillremember.jpg

[FourFifty]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/sandman3g/Wrestling/stillremember.jpg

Damn, first thing that came to mind when I saw the title of this thread, and I was beat to it.

Anyways, not really. The Undertaker can take a shit all over the ring and it's still cool because it's The Undertaker. He doesn't need to have good matches to be a successful performer (also known as "The Hogan Theory"). He's well established, proven he's a company man, and has a ring presence that hits casual fans and hardcore fans differently (also known as "The Cena Effect"). Ergo, any bad matches that The Undertaker has had can casually be looked over because he was still putting asses in seats, and have gotten redemption since with his improved ring work(also known as "The Could Have Been Matt Hardy Syndrome").

[Lock Jaw]

I don't know, but if it was when he had this theme:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yO2za96di8Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yO2za96di8Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

I loved him during that time.

[Jeritron]

I don't think he was that bad. He had some good matches. I didn't think the American Badass gimmick was bad until 2003, when it was clearly time to end it. They got rid of it at the right time, and brought him back as the classic Undertaker

[The Franchise]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/anKWu5QW8TE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/anKWu5QW8TE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

lol

[Lock Jaw]

I like how he looks at Hogan after he failed to jump, like "for real"? Then just muscles him up.

[Nicky Fives]

I don't think he was bad at all during the feud..... I admit he wasn't at his best, but still far more acceptable than some from that era.....

[Jordan]

Come on guys DDP was stalking his wife, he had other shit on his mind.

[Fignuts]

Heel taker was fucking awesome. Don't know what you are talking about.

[Rammsteinmad]

Just wanna say I thought his feud with Brock Lesnar was amazing, and probably wouldn't have been so good if he was the deadman-who-doesn't-sell-anything (as he was in 2004 when he became the deadman again).

[The Franchise]

Oh yeah the Lesnar feud was the shit. He was pretty blah for all of 2002 and 2003 up until the Lesnar feud tho

[south776]

Yeah I'm gonna say you are wrong in your opinion. But of course, thats only my opinion...

Anyway...he had a lot of good matches listed above as well as an awesome ladder match with Jeff Hardy on RAW in 02.

[Mr. Pierre]

I always felt as a huge Undertaker mark that his worst year was 2001. It wasn't awful by any means, but he had a lot of feuds that just were "meh", and he was also outta shape for his standards.

His feud with HHH was great though, followed by a blah feud with Austin, and then came in the Invasion angle, where Taker/DDP fell pretty flat, followed by a horrible tag team match with Kronik.

It wasn't that bad, but comparing it to Taker's usual greatness, I guess it looks like shit.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Heel taker was fucking awesome. Don't know what you are talking about.

He was good once he turned heel I'm not arguing that. It was the face run from 2000- the beginning of '02. He was awful, having bad matches left and right.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I used to HATE The Undertaker. I used to think of him as a big guy whose matches were not exactly great, whose promos were boring, and had a gimmick I just couldn't get into. I knew his name, but I didn't feel he was anything "special." But I was a Kane mark and always felt that Taker was overshadowing him, though. He was involved in some great matches here and there (as is anyone worth a damn, really), but he really only entered his "big dude who can work" phase around 2006 with his match against Kurt Angle, didn't he? And even then it was only selective.

I think schedule really slows The Undertaker down. He's been in the business for a long time, and that's bound to take a toll. Plus the dude is so respected he can pretty much coast. He's one of those guys who can have a great match "when he wants to." Plus, I think art was immitating life with his "this is my yard" shtick, and working with new guys from WCW, and some rising stars in the WWE had ego get in the way.

One thing I really loved about heel Taker (besides the shock of him turning), was that he really put over some guys during this time. That was partially because he had to (the role of a heel is to get people behind the face). Maven eliminating The Undertaker made me mark the fuck out, as I think it did everybody -- even if you weren't really a Maven fan.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Before he came back in '00 he was awesome, I mean sometimes he sucked cuz he worked with crap workers but when put with someone who was half decent, he put on a show.

[Jeritron]

I thought the American Badass was great for a while. It fit much better into what they were doing at that time, and I think in the longrun it helped the gimmick of The Undertaker have more legs.
It gave him some time off from it, so when it came back it was rejuvinated and way more over than it was when he was last using it.

I'm glad they went with the American Badass for a while, and I'm glad they went back to the classic Undertaker when they did

[The Pope]

That Taker is my favorite era of him

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's not the gimmick that was bad, it was his workrate.

[DaVe]

lol yeah no one seems to understand your point

I think Taker was in the worst shape of his career before he turned heel. Just flabby arms, etc., and he got down to 305 around 02/03 where he stayed until about 2009. I'm sure that's got something to do with it.

I guess it's fair enough since he was absolutely jacked in 99 but then the injury put him off.

[GD]

He had one of the best triple threat matches of all times.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I don't know, but if it was when he had this theme:

<EMBED height=385 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=480 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/yO2za96di8Y&hl=en_US&fs=1& allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

I loved him during that time.

He used that, as well as the version with the lyrics added ("You're Gonna Pay") towards the end of that era of his career. I think a lot of people associate it with bad memories of 'Taker because he was doing the whole Deadman Inc./American Badass thing with the motorcycle and whatnot, and it pissed people off that he deviated from being the "spooky guy" who'd show up and turn out the arena lights and shoot lightning or whatever at his enemies...the hardcore fans like the idea of the mystique of the guy who threatens to take peoples souls, and when they tried making him seem more human, it just didn't fly.

[The Mackem]

I dunno, probably pissed that he screwed DDP over (alledgedly)

[XL]

I much prefer the heel "American Bad Ass" gimmick over anything he has ever done. Maybe with the exception of "Ministry" Taker.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

K I'm not talking about the gimmick i'm talking about his workrate. Shut the fuck up all of you. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhh

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

fucking n00bs

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

He had one of the best triple threat matches of all times.

Once he turned heel in 2002 yes. when he stopped sucking.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I sort of wish The Undertaker would combine his Ministry Taker with his Biker Taker. Not so much the biker stuff, as the more realistic attitude he had. He was more about respect and being seen as a top dog than "mind games." To freshen Taker up, I'd move him to RAW (which would be so different in and of itself), and have him become more of a loose cannon who Chokeslams random people because "this is my ring."

Visually, he'd be like he currently is, sticking mainly to his Ministry-style entrance robe and the style he used at WrestleMania (lose the hat and cloak), with his promos being less "I am a supernatural, slow-talking entity" and more "I am the fucking Phenom, the top guy in the company and I only say what I need to say."

[The Show Off]

Funny how that exact period of time was my favorite incarnation of The Undertaker. My favorite match of Taker's is vs. Brock Lesnar Hell in a Cell, that was awesome.

[Lock Jaw]

He used that, as well as the version with the lyrics added ("You're Gonna Pay") towards the end of that era of his career. I think a lot of people associate it with bad memories of 'Taker because he was doing the whole Deadman Inc./American Badass thing with the motorcycle and whatnot, and it pissed people off that he deviated from being the "spooky guy" who'd show up and turn out the arena lights and shoot lightning or whatever at his enemies...the hardcore fans like the idea of the mystique of the guy who threatens to take peoples souls, and when they tried making him seem more human, it just didn't fly.

That was me. Hated the Bikertaker throughout, until he turned heel. Then I kind of enjoyed him.

[tjmidnight420]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/sandman3g/Wrestling/stillremember.jpg

...some of it...

[Jordan]

I think he was in a bad place with his health. He took a long time off before and after that gimmick.

Your right Dale, the net was calling for retirement big time. He was slipping, although he still had it in him to have really good matches from time to time. Then once he returned as the Dead Man he has been getting better and better ever since.

The Bad Ass time was good for takers character in the long run, and his wrestling style. His style was awesome during that time, even though he was kinda fat and had Abyss ass.

[DaVe]

I sort of wish The Undertaker would combine his Ministry Taker with his Biker Taker. Not so much the biker stuff, as the more realistic attitude he had. He was more about respect and being seen as a top dog than "mind games." To freshen Taker up, I'd move him to RAW (which would be so different in and of itself), and have him become more of a loose cannon who Chokeslams random people because "this is my ring."

Visually, he'd be like he currently is, sticking mainly to his Ministry-style entrance robe and the style he used at WrestleMania (lose the hat and cloak), with his promos being less "I am a supernatural, slow-talking entity" and more "I am the fucking Phenom, the top guy in the company and I only say what I need to say."

Aha. This did happen - Taker as part of the Unholy Alliance.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5ex3cspstmo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5ex3cspstmo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/opfZ3QH8eO0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/opfZ3QH8eO0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vYRb4RTqmFU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vYRb4RTqmFU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

..and this still has nothing to do with Dale's point.:$

[Innovator]

I think he got used to being the Deadman and not having a sell a lot, and after 02 he switched his style around. So that 2000 late 2001 he was just limbo in terms of his style.

[parkmania]

I sort of wish The Undertaker would combine his Ministry Taker with his Biker Taker. Not so much the biker stuff, as the more realistic attitude he had. He was more about respect and being seen as a top dog than "mind games." To freshen Taker up, I'd move him to RAW (which would be so different in and of itself), and have him become more of a loose cannon who Chokeslams random people because "this is my ring."

Visually, he'd be like he currently is, sticking mainly to his Ministry-style entrance robe and the style he used at WrestleMania (lose the hat and cloak), with his promos being less "I am a supernatural, slow-talking entity" and more "I am the fucking Phenom, the top guy in the company and I only say what I need to say."



I'd actually like to see Taker use this in kind of an "End of Days" gimmick leading up to his retirement in 2012.


Oh and does anyone else remember when we were all calling him "Taker, Texas Ranger"?

[DLVH84]

I'd actually like to see Taker use this in kind of an "End of Days" gimmick leading up to his retirement in 2012.


Oh and does anyone else remember when we were all calling him "Taker, Texas Ranger"?

You're referring to his return at WrestleMania XX.