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View Full Version : A statement on the original ECW


Jordan
04-25-2010, 01:21 PM
Okay I won't make this long and drawn out.

In ECW, Heyman pushed unconventional talent like Sandman, RVD, Tazz, Mikey Whipwreck, Raven, Dreamer etc...


They were all unconventional, or in some other terms "Off", or "bad". At least thats how they were viewed by the public or Vince and Eric.

RVD, Tazz, Dreamer, Sandman, Balls, and most other ECW Originals failed in WWE, or WCW because they were so "off" thats because only Paul Heyman knew how to make them look comparable to WWF and WCW superstars.

Bottom line, none of the ECW superstars except RVD, The Dudley Boys, Raven, and Rhino has had any comparable success outside of ECW as to what they had in ECW.

In my opinion WWE ruined RVD for me (or us) and himself. Years of being held back physically made him lazy and repetitive. Even though he did use unique RVD offense, he was rarely able to use some of the big spots that made him so fucking cool.

The Dudleys are the biggest success in my opinion, from a kayfabe POV and a realistic. They had a great long run in WWE and made tons of money I would assume, they have had a top run in TNA for years now, and won NJPW tag titles. They will go down as one of the best of all time.

Tazz, well its not a long story, WWE blew it with him quickly and became a jobber and not scary so he was done.

Raven, one of the other questionable characters, maybe he did surpass his ECW excellence in TNA, WCW, but not WWE. He was treated like shit and jobbed out over and over, 22 hardcore titles reigns I believe. Thats not a bragging right.

I do honestly think that Paul Heyman could put these guys back on the top notch radar, they all still deliver from time to time and haven't totally kicked it in yet, wouldn't it be great if TNA did do this ECW Stable, and it turned out to be like 10 times better than WWE's? I think it coud work if they got the real ECW guys, and if you have Raven and Stevie, 3-D, RVD, Foley, bring in Sabu and Tommy... thats EC FUCKING W

Ruien
04-25-2010, 01:25 PM
No

tjmidnight420
04-25-2010, 01:27 PM
EC-Dub is in their blood. Doesn't matter if they have the name or not. WWE ruined the name anyway. Problem is TNA is missing the biggest piece of the puzzle, and I don't see them getting it any time soon. That piece is Paul-E.

Jeritron
04-25-2010, 01:33 PM
I don't see how The Dudleys were a bigger success than RVD.

I agree that they were very successful, but they were far more watered down than RVD, if you're familiar with the original ECW product. They were massive heels, and functioned like the Two Man Power Trip or nWo in ECW.
In WWE they were way over, but they didn't draw heat that way and for the most part they were over for table spots. Fans wanted the tables and there was very little substance other than that. They were always a gimmick tag team, and for a lot of their stint played the supporting role to E&C or The Hardys in the midcard. You never saw something like The Dudleys fueding with the likes of Stone Cold and HHH in the main event, which would be commonplace in their ECW capacity.
In ECW they were a main event draw and a powerhouse on the microphone/storylines, despite being a tag team.

RVD was constantly a singles star, and had a lot of great matches. He may have taken it down a notch in the ring, but he still busted out his classic offense and he was over for the exact same reasons he was in ECW.
He may have been "cooler" and more of a cult favorite in ECW, in some people's opinions, but he was more successful in WWE. He was consistently over for years until he won the WWE Title off of John Cena.
I don't see how much more could be expected out of his run outside of ECW, other than wishing he'd go coast to coast a bit more often.

Jordan
04-25-2010, 02:15 PM
Well my favorite RVD spot was the plancha into the audience...

I though the Dudley Boys were massively over when they were putting women through tables, and feuding with the Hardy's and Edge and Christian in 2000. They were in PPV main events as well... Invasion PPV, Great American Bash against the Undertaker just off the top of my head.

Any ECW guy was a watered down version of their characters except the Dudley Boys who evolved their characters more than Dreamer or RVD or Sandman etc...

Jordan
04-25-2010, 02:15 PM
I should have stated this who threat is also assuming Heyman gets into TNA at some point.

Jeritron
04-25-2010, 02:32 PM
I agree that the Dudleys were awesome in WWE as well, don't get me wrong. I guess what I'm saying is that I disagree that RVD was any more watered down.

I think Raven and Tazz are the best examples of guys that could have been more successful within the WWE system who weren't.
I would never state a problem with what happened with Dreamer, Sandman, and others because they didn't really fit the bill. I still don't see any reason why Tazz and Raven couldn't have flourished in the upper-midcard though.

Emperor Smeat
04-25-2010, 02:45 PM
Heyman was great at making wrestlers who didn't fit the WWE/WCW image of a main eventer and making them stars in his own company. He also knew the importance of the entire wrestling card similar to what WCW did by making cruiser-weights as important for a show.

Raven's lack of a push is probably related to his time in WCW since WCW wasted an opportunity to make him into a big star while Taz/Tazz didn't have much of a wrestling career in WWE due to his neck getting worser over the few years he wrestled. WWE created a huge blunder by not pushing RVD when he was the only Alliance wrestler to get cheered by the crowd during the Invasion period.

XIII
04-25-2010, 02:47 PM
i wish it could be that way again..... ecw was fuckin awesome.... but lets face it, its over and will never be the same again.. no matter what... them guys are either too old, too fat, or too injured... they only guys left that can still actually go and look good doin it are rvd, the dudleys, justin credible, and maybe tommy dreamer.... taz is done injured and fat, raven is old and fat, the franchise is fat, stevie has back or neck problems, sabu shaved his head and just wouldnt be the same... mike fuckin awesome is fuckin dead.. foleys gettin a little old, dont know where the sandman is, newjack is fuckin crazy.. and terry funk is a fuckin antique... so them days are sadly gone..... wwe just needs to keep doin some classic ecw dvds... they should put out the whole fuckin catalog... they should put out a 3 disc dvd set for taz, sabu, sandman, the franchise (that'll never happen) raven, terry funk and so on....... that would be the shittttt........

Jordan
04-25-2010, 03:27 PM
WWE should make a "make your own" dvd feature where you can choose matches you want and angles etc... It could cost a little extra because there would need to be somebody dealing with customers asking what angles... because not every customer is going to know to be like "Yeah I want to see RVD vs Jerry Lynn fan cam in Torono on 8/5/99" etc...

Mr. Nerfect
04-25-2010, 04:33 PM
To be honest, I would not really want to see The Sandman, Sabu, etc. in TNA. I'd be happy if they picked up Paul Heyman as a writer or even an on-air talent, but I'd rather see new guys be given the shot to develop under Heyman's wing.

ECW was not Heyman's only creative success. When he wrote SmackDown!, it absolutely blew away RAW. To the point where he pretty much lost his job over it. Then he went down to OVW, and I'll be damned if he didn't make that a better show than most editions of RAW and SmackDown!. The feud between Johnny Jeter and Matt Cappotelli down there was so intense.

If TNA signed Paul Heyman, I'd like to see what he would do with D'Angelo Dinero, or Brian Kendrick. I'd like to see how he used some bigger stars that don't neccessarily belong in the main event anymore. I'd like to see how he used a guy he helped make, like RVD, and create new stars with him.

Jeritron
04-25-2010, 05:49 PM
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<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gMUAgONIick&hl=en_US&fs=1&autoplay=0&start=7" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="480"></object>

Jeritron
04-25-2010, 05:49 PM
I figured if we were going to be talking about ECW, I would include the next Denzel

thedamndest
04-25-2010, 06:11 PM
Denzel's friend.

Jeritron
04-25-2010, 06:12 PM
This thread now has a great face, sexuality, and charm

thedamndest
04-25-2010, 06:12 PM
http://freshplays.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/denzel-washington-picture-5.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/53/New_Jack.jpg/200px-New_Jack.jpg

TazFTW86
04-25-2010, 09:53 PM
the ecw tv replays on wwe demandd are pretty good

Vastardikai
04-25-2010, 10:10 PM
Then he went down to OVW, and I'll be damned if he didn't make that a better show than most editions of RAW and SmackDown!. The feud between Johnny Jeter and Matt Cappotelli down there was so intense.

It also had that hot Punk/Albright feud that was so good, people actually thought Albright had more charisma than he did (working opposite Punk at his indy peak was a huge plus).

Jordan
04-25-2010, 11:25 PM
OKAY let me make this a little more clear...

There are rumors that TNA is interested in doing an ECW angle, there are rumors they have been interested in Paul Heyman. Now, with Heyman's friends RVD, 3-D, Raven, Rhino and Stevie already signed (all whom can still go btw) it is somewhat likely that he could sign with TNA, either as an on screen character, or both on screen and an offstage booker/writer.

If they went with this angle I would hope they could get Heyman, as it would be the only way to legitimize it. Now the ECW guys that TNA already has, they are all still in good condition and are still worth having around. You could also hire Tommy Dreamer and maybe Sabu. That would probably be enough.

I think those guys are still good enough, and I think Heyman is good enough to get those guys mega over with the TNA audience, and possibly add a small amount of people who don't watch TNA. It may not be a whole rating point, but I think if it was a good angle, people who liked the original ECW would watch, because there those bad ass guys are again fucking wrecking shit, and being awesome.

Mr. Nerfect
04-26-2010, 04:28 AM
Alright, I've read the rumours that TNA is interesting in doing something like this now, because the 18-34 year old demographic still has positive feelings towards the original ECW. Instead of creating a faction of ECW guys, though, I would rather they just took on a more ECW approach. Or let Heyman write.

I'm not opposed to Heyman as an on-air character. I'm not opposing to RVD being managed by him, or even Team 3D being his on-air friends. Rhino would fit, too. Wasn't he recently on good terms with Team 3D? But don't just limit it to old ECW guys trying to re-live the glory days. There needs to be something "fresh" about it all. That's what made the original ECW original in the first place. RVD as the cocky "I'll take on anyone because I'm fucking amazing" character could work again. But if you put Team 3D with him, then let Jesse Neal enter the group, too, because he's on good terms with them.

I just think they need Heyman writing, and let some original stuff flow that can connect with what the audience wants to see.

thedamndest
04-26-2010, 04:09 PM
After Vince bought out the rights to ECW, after the Invasion, after ONS, after RVD beat Cena and relaunched ECW, the last remnant of ECW in the WWE is John Cena beating Batista for the WWE Championship in a Last Man Standing Match.

tjmidnight420
04-26-2010, 05:10 PM
I would rather they just took on a more ECW approach. Or let Heyman write.

And for the record: the phrase used back in the day was "the big 3." There's never been 3 big promotions in the US at the same time. There was only 2: WCW and WWF. ECW was an indy that competed with the big boys. How was that possible? Paul Heyman.