Bruno Sammartino: Wrestling Legend or Bitter, Old Man?

[Providence Peep]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1115/nhl_g_sammartino_200.jpg
I don't know how many of you here are "old school" wrestling fans, or how many of you are ignorant about anything that happened in wrestling before 1997, but if possible I'd like to get a discussion going about Bruno Sammartino.

He gets very little mention in these forums, but for those who aren't that familiar with him he was a 2 time WWWF champ who held the belt for 8 years, from 1963-1971, and again from 73-76. He is the original "Living Legend," and was the face of pro wrestling at a time when the business/kayfabed "sport" was given very little TV exposure. He also became the first wrestler to hold the title twice.

Unfortunately, he's also been highly critical of Vince McMahon and the WWE for years, and has refused to accept McMahon's invitation to be inducted into the Hall of Fame, choosing instead to make the following statement in a shoot interview:

Today I get a lot of mail that comes here. I would say that maybe two out of twenty letters that I get, they tell me stuff like, “You know Bruno you are being stubborn, you aren’t being fair to the fans who supported you, you should go into the WWE Hall of Fame regardless of your feelings towards Vince McMahon because you owe it to the fans to go to the Hall of Fame and by not going you are being disrespectful to the fans.” But then I get the majority of letters I kid you not the others say, “Bruno, we respect you for standing by what you believe and we’re behind you,” very, very supportive. The people that feel that I am doing an injustice to the fans, in a way I feel bad that they think that way, but if they only thought about it, in all honesty what is the WWE Hall of Fame? Is there a building that they can go and take their kids or whatever to the Hall of Fame to show them this or that? You know what I’m saying? All it is, is that when they have their WrestleMania the Hall of Fame is the day before and they make DVDs and McMahon sells them. I’m not knocking them for this it’s business, and then he sells those DVDs all over the world and they make a lot of money from it but that’s what it is. How do you get picked for the Hall of Fame? Well they decide. They say, “Well who do we want this year? Let’s pick so and so and so and so.” Look at some of the people in it. Refrigerator Perry and than you have Pete Rose, he’s in the Hall of Fame. I mean if people thought about it, what kind of a Hall of Fame is that?

For you older fans, like myself: where do you think Bruno ranks in the history of pro wrestling greatness, and what do you think of the resentment that he's been carrying around for years?

[Jimmy Cones]

I have plans to put him in the "rank a wrestler" poll but most likely not for a few months. He does seem bitter.

[Nicky Fives]

bitter old man..... I realize that wrestling was at a different point when he wrestled, but the very few matches I have seen of him leave me not very impressed.....

[jskinnyg]

Bitter old Man... But so many of us are and/or will be too...

[Jordan]

I am not familiar with his work, I don't think I have seen a full match, nor have I enjoyed any clips that I have seen.

I don't see the star appeal, other than to Italian's in the WWWF Territory he has no appeal whatsoever that I see.

I am sure he was king at a time when his style was accepted, and I would LOVE to come onto a site that has full matches of his and of the time so I could get a better grasp.

But honestly WWWF is irrelevant and not worth more than a few seconds mention on a documentary or historical music video.

[illmatic]

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[The Pope]

He's old?

[Providence Peep]

He's old?

He'll be 75 this October.

[Seth82]

He was hugely popular in New York

I find him to be abit overrated

[Innovator]

Legend.

[Providence Peep]

But honestly WWWF is irrelevant and not worth more than a few seconds mention on a documentary or historical music video.

:eek: You apparently have little or no understanding of, or appreciation for, the rich history of World Wrestling Entertainment. Sadly, you're not the only person here who feels the way that you do.

How can any educated fan say the WWWF, which laid the initial foundation for the eventual establishment of what today is the global leader in Sports Entertainment, is irrelevant and unimportant?

How can any educated fan not care about Vince McMahon, Sr. and Toots Mondt putting aside their differences in order to form Capital Sports, which they would re-name the World Wide Wrestling Federation, and which a young visionary named Vince McMahon, Jr. would in time make World Wrestling Entertainment?

Sorry, pal, but saying the WWWF is irrelevant is just ignorant. I don't know what's wrong with some of you people.

[The Pope]

He'll be 75 this October.

He's not that old, compared to the Earth, he's still young. :lol:

[Providence Peep]

bitter old man..... I realize that wrestling was at a different point when he wrestled, but the very few matches I have seen of him leave me not very impressed.....

Yeah, he might be boring by today's standards, but that's like comparing apples to oranges. We can't compare something from way back when to now because wrestling, as well as everything else, has evolved.

Hell, back then we would have been able to open the newspaper and see the headline: "Sammartino Defends His Title." Wrestling was taken a lot more seriously back then, and most people still thought it was "real."

Sure, people today would say Bruno Sammartino was "overrated," and unimpressive. But, keep in mind he stayed Champion for 7 1/2 years, and then another 4 in his second reign, so he obviously impressed the company and the fans.

[Testicle]

He's both a legend and a bitter old man.

Although he has been very critical of Vince McMahon Jr. and the wrestling business in general, Vince and the WWE have basically destroyed his history. Here is a guy that was their biggest draw for 20 years and he never gets mentioned on TV. If the WWE doesn't want you to exsist, you don't, a la Randy Savage. For this I don't blame Sammartino for being bitter.

[Providence Peep]

He's not that old, compared to the Earth, he's still young. :lol:

Are you kidding? Back in the day they used to call him "The Italian Strongman". Now he's gotten so old and decrepit that his idea of weight lifting is STANDING UP. :lol:

[Testicle]

bitter old man..... I realize that wrestling was at a different point when he wrestled, but the very few matches I have seen of him leave me not very impressed.....

The 18,000 people that filled MSG every month seem to disagree with you.

[Providence Peep]

Here is a guy that was their biggest draw for 20 years and he never gets mentioned on TV.

That's because he and Vince despise each other, and that's because Bruno resents the creation of "Sports Entertainment."

Check out this quote from Bruno and you'll see what I mean:
Here’s – what’s his name – Austin. Here he was in the ring. My kid calls me up. He says, "Hey dad, put on the TV." This was years ago. He was the world champion. He’s got a can of beer. He’s standing in the ring. And on television they’re bleeping out every other word because he’s using the foulest of language. And they show the camera, and I see in the audience – I call them stupid parents with their six and seven and eight year old children witnessing this. The Vince McMahon "kiss my butt club." I’m sure you’ve heard of this. And they’re stupid parents were exposing their children to this. Boy, is that sending wonderful messages. Because when you have young kids and you take them to these places and they do this kind of behavior, obviously these kids must think it mustn’t be bad. It must be acceptable behavior, right? Well, this is what McMahon turned wrestling into. And excuse me if I don’t want any part of that or would have anything to do with that. And you can credit Steve Austin or the Rock or whoever else you want to credit, but they were all part of that garbage. Every one of them. And the drugs. Look at all the wrestlers that have died from drugs.

[Seth82]

sadly though to alot of people here they think 1998 was old school

because they're too young to enjoy the stuff from the 80's and older

[Providence Peep]

He was hugely popular in New York

And everywhere else he wrestled. The fact is, he was working for a region-based promotion. You can't blame him for not getting over in California if the company never went to California. That's like blaming Bobo Brazil (a wrestler most of you here have never heard of) for getting "over" in the Ukraine.

[Gertner]

Legend and bitter. His son David was a real shit head as well.

[Providence Peep]

Legend and bitter. His son David was a real shit head as well.

I can respect the contribution Bruno made to the business..... but David is just a douche bag. In one of the shoot interviews he did, he was asked about the first WrestleMania and said it was "no big deal."

[Seth82]

David hasn't spoken to his father for many yrs

he too is quite bitter

[Swiss Ultimate]

He out-popped DX!

[Swiss Ultimate]

Turn him heel.

[Fignuts]

Don't really think he's bitter. He has an old school mentality about it. The WWE Hall of Fame is kind of a joke, so I don't hold it against him. He just sticks to what he believes in, and he believes in traditional pro wrestling.

[Rev. Hallowell]

He's both a legend and a bitter old man.

Although he has been very critical of Vince McMahon Jr. and the wrestling business in general, Vince and the WWE have basically destroyed his history. Here is a guy that was their biggest draw for 20 years and he never gets mentioned on TV. If the WWE doesn't want you to exsist, you don't, a la Randy Savage. For this I don't blame Sammartino for being bitter.

This. Plus, Bruno's a Pittsburgh guy, which rules.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Ya see, here's the thing: Sammartino was great...for his time. He may have held the title for 8 years back in a time where professional wrestling wasn't as prominent as it is today, but how many of his challengers were actually worthy of contending with Sammartino for his hard-earned belt?

That being said, however, I do feel he's being a bit bitter and perhaps resentful of Vince and the WWE, and justifiably so, due to the way they've treated him and his 'character' over the years (basically forgetting he ever existed). Maybe it seems to some of you, as it does to me, that Sammartino is being a bit stubborn and foolish in his constant turning down of Vince's offers to induct him into the WWE Hall of Fame, but even so, I say good for him for standing on principle.

[Fignuts]

Why should he agree to be part of something that he doesn't believe in?

[MoFo]

Hes very bitter and you cant just put it down to not getting a mention on TV.

What relevance does he have to recent wrestling? It would be pointless referencing him on TV, even if WWE were to do a little montage of clips with him in as a tribute, nobody would care.

[Wolfpack423]

Bruno Sammartino is my dad's favorite wrestler of all time. I have seen several of his matches from videotapes and I can honestly say he's one of my favorites as well. He's alot better than alot of wrestlers today in my opinion. I think he's a great combination of technical and power styles and have alot of respect for him. What's interesting is he is a big fan of Kurt Angle and he still looks badass. He's bald now and doesn't look old at all. Bruno WAS the WWE before Hulk Hogan came. I am a big fan of both. Bruno used to sell out the Garden and has the record for the most number of sell-outs in MSG history. The man simply was the living legend. As I said I have a ton of respect for him and Vince Jr. has shit all over his legacy and in a way his father who had a great judge of talent, because Pedro Morales was a big time star as well, moreso at the tail end of Vince Srs reign but he was around then.

[Providence Peep]

Vince Jr. has shit all over his legacy and in a way his father who had a great judge of talent, because Pedro Morales was a big time star as well, moreso at the tail end of Vince Srs reign but he was around then.

I would love to respond to this statement, but it's completely incoherent.

[Providence Peep]

he's being a bit bitter and perhaps resentful of Vince and the WWE, and justifiably so, due to the way they've treated him and his 'character' over the years (basically forgetting he ever existed).

He wants nothing to do with WWE and has done nothing but bad-mouth Vince McMahon over the years, so why SHOULD they acknowledge him? I certainly wouldn't be singing the accolades of someone who has continued to publicly insult ME.

[tna]

LEGEND!!!

[Zen v.W.o.]

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[Majunior]

This is tough.

Legend, certainly. But bitter? I'm not sure.

The thing is, he's from a different era. I'm not just talking Wrestling, I'm talking in general. Things we take for granted were completely unacceptable back then. Bruno isn't the only person from that time that objects to the way things are today. It's a completely different mindset.

I think that comes through -- at least as a factor -- in how he sees wrestling today. Even more so, the "Attitude Era" we all know and love, but wrestling as a whole. As a father of a 4 year old, I get what he's saying. I would have never let my son watch wrestling back then. Not at 4, not at 8, maybe even not at 12. And it would have been for some of the same reasons Bruno mentioned.

That being said, as for the Hall of Fame... he's right. It's just about as bullshit as Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak.

Yeah, I said it.

'Taker's streak doesn't impress me. It's not a true undefeated streak like in MMA... he's been allowed to win every Wrestlemania he has been in. That's all it means -- he wasn't told to job to anyone. Similarly, the Hall of Fame isn't a true Hall of Fame. To the best of my knowledge -- and please correct me if I'm mistaken -- there's no building in Connecticut where you can go walk the halls and see memorabilia and watch classic matches for anyone who has been inducted in the WWE Hall of Fame.

So, like 'Taker's streak, it makes for a grand show and is recognition of what you've done for the company, but beyond that it doesn't mean much.

As for everyone who said Bruno doesn't matter and no one today knows who he is... well, that could be because WWE has turned him into persona non grata, like Savage and Benoit. Had he never been buried, people might still care. It's a tough call, and we will never know for sure because that's not how it happened. I can say that if he -- in addition to very understandable feelings about how the business has evolved and been treated -- is bitter about being buried after everything he contributed, well, I can understand that too. But I don't for a moment think that's the only reason he's "been stubborn."

And for the record, I can pretty much respect anyone who stands by what they believe in.

[DaveBrawl]

Don't really think he's bitter. He has an old school mentality about it. The WWE Hall of Fame is kind of a joke, so I don't hold it against him. He just sticks to what he believes in, and he believes in traditional pro wrestling.

This.

[crusnik]

Definately a legend.I remember seeing Sammartino wrestle George "the animal" Steele way back in `76 at the Spectrum in Philadelpihia.He beat the crap out of him.I agree in the fact that he is not bitter,just an old school mentality.I guess i can understand why he turns down going into tht hall of fame,but I'd like to see him there anyway cause in my opinion,he almost more than anyone deserves to be in it.