Jordan on LeBron: "No Way" I Would've Done That

[Swiss Ultimate]

The latest Big Three backlash came Sunday from none other than Michael Jordan (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/19/sportsline/main6691968.shtml), who contributed his weighty opinion to the debate about whether LeBron James should've teamed up with two superstars instead of trying to beat them.

"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said after finishing tied for 22nd in the American Century Championship golf tournament in Stateline, Nev. "But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Those last few words, said in an interview with NBC Sports, will resonate and hang over James all season, the way Jordan's legacy has hovered over the first seven years of his career. Clearly, I am not alone in believing that James broke ranks in a legacy-damaging way by teaming up with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh instead of trying to go through them in the eternal struggle for championships that the great players have always faced.

"Mike and I are in 100 percent agreement on this," Charles Barkley told the Arizona Republic this week. "If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you. That's ridiculous. I like LeBron. He's a great player. But I don't think in the history of sports you can find a two-time defending MVP leaving to go play with other people."

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>This needed its own thread.</font>

[Nark Order]

How about he racks up 4-5 championships and then goes to be a franchise player? Then there will be room for error because he'll already have all the gold. Smart. Just not popular.

[Nark Order]

Charles Barkley never won a championship btw...

[IC Champion]

You leave Charles Barkley alone.

[Gertner]

If MJ would have called Bird and Magic up a few years into the league MJ would have been told to fuck off.

[Juan]

MJ must be a Lakers fan.

[YOUR Hero]

What's true is he ran after instead of having others run to him.

[Rev. Hallowell]

Jordan didn't choke in the playoffs.

[Nark Order]

Jordan had a cast of players.

[IC Champion]

Jordan had Pippen and a bunch of guys he made good. It's not like LeBron didnt have help, his team won 65 games 2 years in a row.

[Nark Order]

If LeBron had had a Pippen, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Nark Order]

Not to mention that you're seriously underselling Dennis Rodman.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I dunno, I feel like all these complaints about LeBron are like the antithesis of sportsmanship. They're basically blasting him for wanting to be a teammate instead of a superstar. Why is that a bad thing?

This whole thing is just people trying to rationalize their hatred for LeBron now. They're mad about the ESPN special and so now they're going to criticize everything he does and say it's a negative even when it's not. But that's stupid. If you want to hate him, hate him, but do it for real reasons.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Also what the fuck is Barkley complaining about?


Hey Charles:

http://www.sportsposterwarehouse.com/catImages/rockets96cos-1.jpg


Shut the fuck up, buddy.

[IC Champion]

I think we give guys like Pippen to much credit, was he a good player yes. But Jordan made him what he was and made everyone on that team better.

If LeBron had a Pippen we probably would still be having this converstion, LeBron is overrated, I don't care who rips me for it he is. He has been over hyped since day one. He isnt a Bird, or Magic or Jordan. He is an amazing athlete, and probably the greatest athlete of this generation, but he choked aginst the Celtics, if he didn't quit, which has been "rumored". I don't think it's what happened, but I can't say I would be surprised.

LeBron couldnt win on his own, we all know it now, he knew it too, so he took his talents and went to south beach to play Robin to Wade's Batman. I don't care if that's how it is, that will be how it's remembered.

[IC Champion]

Also what the fuck is Barkley complaining about?


Hey Charles:

http://www.sportsposterwarehouse.com/catImages/rockets96cos-1.jpg


Shut the fuck up, buddy.

That was more like the Celts getting together, and they didn't win.

[IC Champion]

Also, Barkley had been the man on his team for like 10 years before that.

[McLegend]

Lebron going to Miami is not the defintion of sportsmanship. He's going to Miami where he still getting paid millions of dollars to play with his best friends. He left behind a city that reportedly can lose between $20 million- $40 million.

Him going to Miami is a totally selfish move.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

It's Barkley leaving his team to join other superstars to try to win a ring.

[Nark Order]

This whole thing is just people trying to rationalize their hatred for LeBron now. They're mad about the ESPN special and so now they're going to criticize everything he does and say it's a negative even when it's not. But that's stupid. If you want to hate him, hate him, but do it for real reasons.

Yeah. This is basically what I'm thinking here.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Lebron going to Miami is not the defintion of sportsmanship. He's going to Miami where he still getting paid millions of dollars to play with his best friends. He left behind a city that reportedly can lose between $20 million- $40 million.

Him going to Miami is a totally selfish move.

Come on, is that fair? Cleveland's shitty economy isn't his fault, and it's not his responsibility to fix it. And of course he's looking out for himself. Who else should he be looking out for?

Look LeBron's a dick no question, but you guys are reaching for excuses.

[IC Champion]

It's Barkley leaving his team to join other superstars to try to win a ring.

Barkley played 12 NBA season before he left and went to Houston though.

[IC Champion]

But yeah, Charles should just shut up.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Barkley played 12 NBA season before he left and went to Houston though.

So how many should LeBron have played before he left? 7 isn't enough? What's the number?

[IC Champion]

I'm not saying there is a number, I'm saying Barkley wasn't a top 10 guy when he went to Houston, and he was past his prime.

[Nark Order]

I'm not saying there is a number, I'm saying Barkley wasn't a top 10 guy when he went to Houston, and he was past his prime.

And this is more admirable how?

[IC Champion]

LeBron is the "best" player in the NBA in his prime, Charles was an aging veteran who had been the man on his team for years, and then went to Houston to play with other aging stars. I didn't say it was more admirable. But if you can't see the difference than there is nothing to say that will.

I'm saying Lebron couldnt win on his own.

[Nark Order]

Nobody can win on their own.

[McLegend]

Come on, is that fair? Cleveland's shitty economy isn't his fault, and it's not his responsibility to fix it. And of course he's looking out for himself. Who else should he be looking out for?

Look LeBron's a dick no question, but you guys are reaching for excuses.

He should be looking out for his family and himself, but if he stays in Cleveland he gets an extra 30 million. His family can surly surive on that in Cleveland.

Also it might not be fair, but I think Lebron does actually have a bigger purpose to Cleveland then other superstars to any city. If he really does mean that much to Cleveland then the unselfish thing to do would be to put the City wants and needs before your own.


Also from a basketball prospective winning a title with Cleveland>Miami. That really would have cemented his legacy.

[IC Champion]

I mean't in the sense that Jordan won, and Magic. You know, not playing with two other top 10 players. Don't be an asshole, you knew what I meant.

[Nark Order]

I mean't in the sense that Jordan won, and Magic. You know, not playing with two other top 10 players. Don't be an asshole, you knew what I meant.

You're being pretty unfair though to the guys that surrounded Jordan and Magic though. They weren't playing on their own like Lebron was playing on his own. Lebron literally had no other dominant presence on his team.

Just in general, I think the whole "hate the guy because he wants to put himself in a position to win" is just fucking asanine to begin with though.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I mean't in the sense that Jordan won, and Magic. You know, not playing with two other top 10 players. Don't be an asshole, you knew what I meant.

Kareem and Worthy aren't good enough for you?

[Nark Order]

Scotty Pippen is a hall of famer in his own right and Dennis Rodman is one of the greatest rebound guys of all time. Your Jordan scenario you're trying to paint out is a little silly.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

This is the thing I think is stupid. Everyone knows Jordan is the biggest story in NBA history. What's the second biggest? The Lakers/Celtics rivalry. Do you hear anyone complaining about how Magic/Kareem/Worthy/Bird/McHale/Parrish should've won on their own? Of course not. But now everyone is consumed by Jordan and being a superstar. There isn't going to be another Jordan, so just fuck off with this nonsense.

[Hanso Amore]

If you compare great playera that never won a ring going to a contender at the end of their career to the reignign MVP jumping ship, you should probably take a step back and rethink.

IF this was 2019 and Lebron was 34 and did this, it is much different.

[IC Champion]

You're being pretty unfair though to the guys that surrounded Jordan and Magic though. They weren't playing on their own like Lebron was playing on his own. Lebron literally had no other dominant presence on his team.

Just in general, I think the whole "hate the guy because he wants to put himself in a position to win" is just fucking asanine to begin with though.

I don't hate him cause he wants to win, I hate him cause of how he handled free agency, how he treated a city that loved him, and how he thinks he's bigger than the game of basketball. The guy is an actual narcissus, and has an ego the size of the sun.

I just think he is over rated and over hyped, and he believes what is said about him. I mean why not just have a press conference for your announcement like everyother athlete in the history of sports has done. No wants a special with a hand picked interviewer. That's why I hate Lebron. He could have stayed put, and I would still dislike him.

[IC Champion]

This is the thing I think is stupid. Everyone knows Jordan is the biggest story in NBA history. What's the second biggest? The Lakers/Celtics rivalry. Do you hear anyone complaining about how Magic/Kareem/Worthy/Bird/McHale/Parrish should've won on their own? Of course not. But now everyone is consumed by Jordan and being a superstar. There isn't going to be another Jordan, so just fuck off with this nonsense.

Difference is alot of those players were drafted to those teams they played for, they didn't collude before free agency and all decide to get togather.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

If you compare great playera that never won a ring going to a contender at the end of their career to the reignign MVP jumping ship, you should probably take a step back and rethink.

IF this was 2019 and Lebron was 34 and did this, it is much different.

How is it different? Is it because LeBron can still go, but Barkley and Malone waited too long?

[Hanso Amore]

And I dont think people are getting on him for leaving to win, they are pointing out that if he was a great player he would do it himself. Yeah, other greats had good teams. But they didnt tuck tail and run to another guys team to have a chance. Lebron is the MVP. This is completely unprecedented.

Say what you want, but no matter how many rings he wins in Miami, its always going to be a stain on his career.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Difference is alot of those players were drafted to those teams they played for, they didn't collude before free agency and all decide to get togather.

But so what? What important difference does that make?

[IC Champion]

Scotty Pippen is a hall of famer in his own right and Dennis Rodman is one of the greatest rebound guys of all time. Your Jordan scenario you're trying to paint out is a little silly.

I think we tend to remember them as such because they won 6 titles, namley because of Michael Jordan.

[IC Champion]

But so what? What important difference does that make?

None...

[Hanso Amore]

How is it different? Is it because LeBron can still go, but Barkley and Malone waited too long?

Yes. He is the MVP. People call him the best player in the league, and he tucked his tail in and gave up on being the man.

I dont like what Malone and Barkley did, but I can understand their desparation in their final years. Lebron is 25 and in his prime. I dont respect his move. HE gave up and decided to take the easy way out. I cant ever respect that.

[IC Champion]

Easy way, hard way, either way they get to watch their boy LeBron win finally, cause we know it was never happening with him as the focal point in Cleveland.

[Nark Order]

I think we tend to remember them as such because they won 6 titles, namley because of Michael Jordan.

lol wut

[Supreme Olajuwon]

And I dont think people are getting on him for leaving to win, they are pointing out that if he was a great player he would do it himself. Yeah, other greats had good teams. But they didnt tuck tail and run to another guys team to have a chance. Lebron is the MVP. This is completely unprecedented.

Say what you want, but no matter how many rings he wins in Miami, its always going to be a stain on his career.

This is the typical post-Jordan mindset. Everyone wants to see another MJ so bad. They want a guy to win games by himself. There isn't going to be another Jordan.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Yes. He is the MVP. People call him the best player in the league, and he tucked his tail in and gave up on being the man.

I dont like what Malone and Barkley did, but I can understand their desparation in their final years. Lebron is 25 and in his prime. I dont respect his move. HE gave up and decided to take the easy way out. I cant ever respect that.

But why should he waste the prime of his career in a place where the best teammate he ever had was Antawn Jamison? Are you really going to tell me that he would be better off wasting his prime and winning nothing only to try and win a title as a role player than he would be going to a better team during his prime and winning three or four titles?

It might be admirable, but it's stupid. Win while you can.

[IC Champion]

I can live with all of that, I just want all the talk of him being great, and better than kobe, and how he is the next Jordan to stop.

[IC Champion]

Plus his whole special, and free agency scenerio was just ridiculous.

[Nark Order]

The problem isn't what's being said. People make claims all the time. The ones legitimizing the claims are the ones getting offended and threatened by them.

[IC Champion]

The man is clearly full of himself. LeBron James' biggest fan is LeBron James.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

The ESPN special really annoyed me. I thought it was one of the least classy things I had ever seen. But that doesn't mean the decision itself was negative in any way.

[IC Champion]

The real problem isn't with free agency, or where LeBron went, the problem is the NBA has too many teams, and the talent pool is watered down because of it. Players who shouldn't be in the NBA are, and players who shouldnt be drafted, get drafted every year. They move a team from charlotte, and than add an expansion team there 2 years later. the NBA has over expanded, and because of it we get teams that are absolutley awful and can barely win 12 games, and leads to things like 3 of the top 15 players in the league joining up.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

... that doesn't make any sense at all

[Supreme Olajuwon]

If anything over expansion should make it tougher for good players to join up. And it has.

[IC Champion]

The NBA's talent has be diluted by having too many teams. Not enough talent to fill the roster spots, I mean look at the heat this past season, if the east wasnt weak and Wade wasn't unhuman, they never would have made the playoffs.

[Nark Order]

So what annoyed people the most about the ESPN thing? I feel like people are sour over the fact that he had an "ESPN special" dedicated to his decision. Would the backlash have been as great if he had announced his decision and then done a lengthy interview on Sportscenter afterwards?

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I get that. I just don't see the correlation between over expansion and LeBron, Wade, and Bosh joining up.

[IC Champion]

If anything over expansion should make it tougher for good players to join up. And it has.

Through the draft, but it leads to things like these in free agency, and now Toronto and Cleveland will be two more teams that struggle to compete.

[IC Champion]

I get that. I just don't see the correlation between over expansion and LeBron, Wade, and Bosh joining up.

I'm saying that it gives incentive to want to join up. There just isn't enough talent in the NBA for those 3 guys to stay put and have the chance they have winning by playing togather.

[DAMN iNATOR]

But yeah, Charles should just shut up.

AND JAM!

[Nark Order]

In the end, the bitterness stemming from how good these guys are outweighs anything that Lebron actually did. Competition is what is really fueling this hatred and I just want somebody to admit it.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

So what annoyed people the most about the ESPN thing? I feel like people are sour over the fact that he had an "ESPN special" dedicated to his decision. Would the backlash have been as great if he had announced his decision and then done a lengthy interview on Sportscenter afterwards?

It was how he dragged Cleveland fans along and then ultimately dropped them. Cleveland would've hated him no matter what for leaving, but getting their hopes up and then doing the whole big reveal thing was extremely classless.

He doesn't owe anyone anything, but the way he went about his decision was just awful.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I'm saying that it gives incentive to want to join up. There just isn't enough talent in the NBA for those 3 guys to stay put and have the chance they have winning by playing togather.

Sure there is. That's why stuff like this rarely happens.

[IC Champion]

It was how he dragged Cleveland fans along and then ultimately dropped them. Cleveland would've hated him no matter what for leaving, but getting their hopes up and then doing the whole big reveal thing was extremely classless.

He doesn't owe anyone anything, but the way he went about his decision was just awful.

[Nark Order]

I don't know. I don't understand I guess. If Kobe left California millions of us would celebrate.

[IC Champion]

Sure there is. That's why stuff like this rarely happens.

There really isn't, there is enough that like 5 teams each year have a realistic chance at winning. You can usually tell before the season even starts who will compete. Look at the east this year, it was horrendis. There were so many bad teams, and the gap between the top 4 teams and the rest of the conference was huge.

I think we didnt see this before because money played a huge factor, and when was the last time 3 free agents like this all hit the market?

[IC Champion]

I don't know. I don't understand I guess. If Kobe left California millions of us would celebrate.

It's not that he left, it was how he left that struck so many people the wrong way. He could have had a simple press conference like every other free agent in NBA history and not ripped Clevelands heart out in a nationally televised special.

[Nark Order]

I don't know, I still think that's getting oversold. But think how you want.

[IC Champion]

Yeah, he totally handled it in a classy way.

[Nark Order]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I think people are overusing what he did as an excuse to hate him, when they mostly don't like him for other reasons.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

There really isn't, there is enough that like 5 teams each year have a realistic chance at winning. You can usually tell before the season even starts who will compete. Look at the east this year, it was horrendis. There were so many bad teams, and the gap between the top 4 teams and the rest of the conference was huge.

I think we didnt see this before because money played a huge factor, and when was the last time 3 free agents like this all hit the market?


You're basing this on one season. But from season to season, there's still as much parody in the NBA as any other league. Every team in the NBA has made the playoffs since the 03-04 season and all but New York and Minnesota have been in since 05-06. It's fine.

[IC Champion]

I always thought he was overrated and overhyped, I never strongly disliked him like I do now until I saw his decision, and the way he handled everything.

[Rev. Hallowell]

I think one thing people are forgetting is that he did what any intelligent person would have done: He got the fuck out of Cleveland.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I think people are overusing what he did as an excuse to hate him, when they mostly don't like him for other reasons.
No, you've got it backwards. They hate him because of the special, and now they're looking for other reasons to hate him when most of their hatred comes from the special.

[IC Champion]

You're basing this on one season. But from season to season, there's still as much parody in the NBA as any other league. Every team in the NBA has made the playoffs since the 03-04 season and all but New York and Minnesota have been in since 05-06. It's fine.

No it's not there are plenty of teams who are perenial losers like Memphis, LAC, Toronto, Charlotte, NYK, Golden State. And I Don't think there has ever been more terrible teams then there were this last season.

[IC Champion]

Memphis has been around since 95 and have been to the playoffs twice maybe.

[Loose Cannon]

Lebron going to Miami is not the defintion of sportsmanship. He's going to Miami where he still getting paid millions of dollars to play with his best friends. He left behind a city that reportedly can lose between $20 million- $40 million.

Him going to Miami is a totally selfish move.

pretty much what I was gonna say. he's going to have fun with his friends and play ball in a sweet part of the country. seems like a pretty good life to live. nothing wrong with that

[Supreme Olajuwon]

No it's not there are plenty of teams who are perenial losers like Memphis, LAC, Toronto, Charlotte, NYK, Golden State. And I Don't think there has ever been more terrible teams then there were this last season.

That's terrible management, not watered down talent. Things can change, and they do. The Heat won 15 games in 07-08. Now look at them. The Celtics hadn't won 50 games in a season since 91-92 before they got KG and Allen.

It's not like the same teams are constantly on top. There's parody. It's fine.

[DaveBrawl]

The Bulls in 94 after Jordan left were still the #3 seed in the East and lost in game 7 to the eventual Eastern Conference champs, and even then the Knicks game 5 win was on a controversial call. The following year they were the 5 seed when MJ returned half way through the season. So to act like Chicago was worthless without Jordan is a little ridiculous. Was he the greatest ever? Yeah, but he had a lot of help too. Help Lebron has never had, and likely wasn't going to get any time soon.

Was that partially his fault? Yeah, holding off on decisions and being an egotistical gloryhound generally does that. However nobody that isn't desparate to play with him, or has ties to the area is really going to want to play there. They are going to want to play in cities like Chicago, Miami, LA, Boston or NY. Cities where they can get more attention and more endorsements. I mean we talk about Bird, Jordan and Magic well where did they play? Big cities with big money. That's what it's all about, he wants to get all he can while he can. Who knows, in a few years if he has some titles, he may go back to Cleveland to finish out his career.

But just because something is unprecendented doesn't mean it's awful. I mean Moses Malone was the last MVP to leave his team and that was like 30 years ago. Yet does anyone remember that or talk about that? No, after a year or two no one will care about this either and we'll all be on to the next thing we can overreact too. It'll be like the Kobe rape accusations. The only people who will bring it up are people looking to tear the guy down. He handled this deal in probably the worst way he could, but in the end who cares?

[IC Champion]

If there was parity it wouldn't have took Allen and KG to make Boston a playoff team, and KG leaving wouldn't have sent Minnesota back to the dark ages.

There are always going to be an LA Clippers, but there are teams that don't have terrible management and still find it hard to compete.

[Nark Order]

The owner of the Clippers is a fucking shithead and has no intention of ever seriously competing.

[IC Champion]

Yeah, I fucking hate how they run that franchise. I'm surprised the league hasn't tried to force him to sell the team, I know they can't probably, but I would atleast make the effort

[alvarado52]

Jordan had Pippen and a bunch of guys he made good. It's not like LeBron didnt have help, his team won 65 games 2 years in a row.

This.

[Emperor Smeat]

If there was parity it wouldn't have took Allen and KG to make Boston a playoff team, and KG leaving wouldn't have sent Minnesota back to the dark ages.

There are always going to be an LA Clippers, but there are teams that don't have terrible management and still find it hard to compete.

Minnesota got Al Jefferson in their deal which ended up being better than what Seattle got. Minnesota's problem was then deciding to continue with salary dumping and trying to fill entire team with forwards instead of rebuilding the correct way.

[Emperor Smeat]

Lebron basically listened to all the hype and BS that was coming from ESPN and his agents/inner circle of people ever since he got showcased on national tv from high school. Jordan, Bird, and Magic had to earn their titles as best of the 1980s and 1990s while Lebron was elevated as the new "king" because the NBA and Stern kept pushing the idea of superstars instead of teams as selling point of the league.

Instead of earning his title as "king", he and the team ends up goofing around or acting arrogant during the playoffs and it killed all their momentum. Then because last 2 years was hyped as the Race for Lebron, his ego allowed him to come up with the idea to stage a special show just for himself.

[DrA]

I liked that LeBron James special. He's someone who really knows how to strut his stuff.

[IC Champion]

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/shaun_powell/07/27/superteams/

Interesting article on NBA superstars and expansion.

[RoXer]

http://media.theonion.com/images/articles/article/17774/SB-Lebron-Jordan-R_jpg_445x1000_upscale_q85.jpg

Conceited Prick Thinks Other Conceited Prick Not Conceited Enough

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Jordan might have not done that but LeBron also isn't getting caught up in gambling/with the wrong people & being forced to take 2 years off to play baseball to take the heat off/cover it up. LeBron's father also won't be getting murdered (nobody knows who he is really is anyway though I guess)

[Jeritron]

Everybody knows Delonte West is his father

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I still don't understand how Delonte West got caught with a machine gun in a guitar case while out on a motorcycle and nothing came of that.

[DaveBrawl]

The cops understood everyone wants to be Jason Bourne.

[DaveWadding]

more like El Mariachi.

[The Naitch]

Miami has it all. That's where the party's at. I'd rather play in that city that boring ass Cleveland.

[Swiss Ultimate]

This needed its own thread.

Apparently so. I'm glad I helped you guys work this out.