A different game of "what if"

[Tom Guycott]

Once upon a time in these very forums, someone brought up the topic about the timing of the "Attitude Era" in WWF/E, and it was said that "it would have happened later" and "instead of Austin 3:16 it would be Orton 3:16".

My question is this: who could you see fitting and being successful with a character, gimmick, or angle if someone else didn't already do it. The answer can be anachronistic in that they didn't have to be wrestlers from the same time period the original deal began. It can be before or after it really happened.

For example, using the Austin/Orton example, Orton becomes Stone Cold after running down his KotR opponent... HBK. When MVP was in the swing of his "highest paid athlete" phase, I could see him, The Worlds Greatest Tag Team, and "The Enforcer" DH Smith living up the Horseman lifestyle. Savage being given the Hogan gimmick, Cena being given the Hogan gi... wait, he already... whatever. Have fun.

[The Pope]

Triple H given Lemmy's gimmick.

[Gertner]

Except the WGTT and DH Smith have the personality of a shoe.

[Majunior]

WGTT and DH may have the personality of a shoe, but The Four Horseman haven't always been comprised of charismatic stand-outs.

Ok if HHH hadn't married Steph, who'd be banging the boss's daughter?

[Gertner]

Tully Blanchard and Double A were excellent on the mic, what are you talking about? Windham and Luger were good, even Mongo was solid on the mic, just terrible in the ring.

[Next Big Thing]

Absolutely not to all of that. Stone Cold's character was a similar version of himself. He was a pissed off redneck who was frustrated that he hadn't gotten the opportunities he deserved. We saw in ECW what he could do when allowed to be himself on the mic. Not to mention that Austin is top 5 on the mic. It was the 3:16 promo that got the ball rolling and Orton wouldn't have been able to deliver something like that.

You should be smacked for thinking MVP, Haas and Benjamin, and DH Smith could come close to achieving the success of the Horsemen. Flair, Anderson, and Blanchard could give top matches every night they came out and could hold their own on the mic. Of your group, only Haas and Benjamin can deliver consistent quality in their matches, but their not nearly as great on the mic. Also, the Horsemen had prestige due to Flair being champ. Do you honestly see MVP as having the same caliber matches and title reigns as Flair? (Disregard the later WCW years and anything in TNA or WWE).

Randy Savage didn't have the body type to be "Hulk" Hogan and besides, his own gimmick was pretty good on it's own. You are right about Cena being the new Hogan though.

Moral of the story is that most successful gimmicks of the past were successful because they were merely wrestlers playing exaggerated hyperbolic versions of themselves and with the exception of Hogan's you probably can't reproduce most of those and expect the same success.

[Tom Guycott]

The point of the excercise was to see if anyone struck you as being able to successfully pull off something someone else has already done as if they were the first to do it. Admittedly, (save MVP who I could see being a decent analogue for Flair) I pulled names out of a hat for the 4 Horsemen thing, but it was kind of just for example on what I was asking. Yes, someone like Austin took themselves and amped it to 11, but again, the point is not the origin of the character, just taking the character as you know it and apply it to someone else in the wrestling world you could see it working with. It wasn't meant for so much logic or picking apart the examples.

Obviously, someone like Undertaker took what was, on paper, a really shitty character and molded it into something iconic. I was just asking if Mark Calloway were never the Dead Man, who could you see being fairly believable doing that deal? Do you think it could've worked out if Michaels was thrown through the Barber Shop window and we get HBK Marty Janetty? If "fake Razor Ramon" were Razor Ramon in the first place, (or anyone you choose... AND I KNOW HALL MADE THE CHARACTER UP AND IT WASNT SOME WRITER)do you think would it work out? Who could you see being a believable "Mr. Perfect" if it were never Hennig? These are another example of what I was going for. The point wasn't to agree or disagree with what I threw out there. It was just to be an excercise in fun.

[Furious Beardsley]

Goldust given Gorgeous George's gimmick....oh wait...

[Skippord]

Scott Hall given Jake The Snake Roberts gimmick

[YoungFlyFlashy]

1. Bret Hart or Sting being the 3rd member of nWo instead of Hogan.

2. Shane Douglas given the Million Dollar Man gimmick.

[BizarroKing]

What if...

-The Undertaker's "Higher Power" was someone else, like Jake Roberts

-Goldberg's "undefeated monster" gimmick was given to someone like Wrath

-Triple H was never given his big monster heel push in 1999

[The Pope]

what if
Funaki, instead of The Rock had left to Hollywood.

[Next Big Thing]

what if
Funaki, instead of The Rock had left to Hollywood.

He'd be on his third Godzilla movie right now.

[Next Big Thing]

1. Bret Hart or Sting being the 3rd member of nWo instead of Hogan.

That's something I've always wondered about. Would Sting turning heel have had the same impact as Hogan? I say no. This would have even bigger ramifications in that the NWO likely wouldn't have been as big and served as the foundation of the Monday Night Wars. In fact, if Sting went heel and Hogan stayed face, face Hogan probably would have dispatched of all the members of the NWO within a year.

[YoungFlyFlashy]

That's something I've always wondered about. Would Sting turning heel have had the same impact as Hogan? I say no. This would have even bigger ramifications in that the NWO likely wouldn't have been as big and served as the foundation of the Monday Night Wars. In fact, if Sting went heel and Hogan stayed face, face Hogan probably would have dispatched of all the members of the NWO within a year.

Yeah, Sting wouldn't of had as big of an impact, because it really was still appearing that WWF was taking over WCW, and then when Hogan was the 3rd man, it was sort of a stamp.

[YoungFlyFlashy]

Ahmed Johnson with the Booker T attitude. But Ahmed was unable to talk:(

[Anybody Thrilla]

He was also unable to wrestle.

[YoungFlyFlashy]

He was also unable to wrestle.

:rofl: @ still thinking a push is affected by how much wrestling a wrestler does or doesn't know.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Right, because Ahmed would have really been elevated in HIS best of seven series with Chris Benoit. :roll:

[YoungFlyFlashy]

Right, because Ahmed would have really been elevated in HIS best of seven series with Chris Benoit. :roll:

Cause you know for sure. Hi dummy. :wave:

[Anybody Thrilla]

I know for sure that Ahmed couldn't lace Booker T's boots in terms of wrestling ability. What are you even getting at?

[YoungFlyFlashy]

I know for sure that Ahmed couldn't lace Booker T's boots in terms of wrestling ability. What are you even getting at?

I am getting at that we do not know what a rub with Chris Benoit could of done for Ahmed. I never said giving Ahmed Booker's career meant he would be where Booker was, but at least a bit longer in the business maybe.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Chris Benoit was a specific example of what I was trying to say the first time around...and that's that Ahmed can't wrestle. If Booker couldn't wrestle, he wouldn't have gotten over as big as he did, regardless of his 'attitude'.

[YoungFlyFlashy]

Chris Benoit was a specific example of what I was trying to say the first time around...and that's that Ahmed can't wrestle. If Booker couldn't wrestle, he wouldn't have gotten over as big as he did, regardless of his 'attitude'.

I think someone like Booker would of got over regardless, because Booker T has never been "gimmick" for him. It was who he was, he was already coming into his own, I am not saying the rub with Benoit didn't help, but if it didn't happen I believe Booker T would still be Booker T. The fans really stuck with him, basically from day one, because he was never pushed onto anyone, they basically told the guy, go out there and be you and we'll see what happens.

[YoungFlyFlashy]

In wrestling, pushes and successes rarely come from actually tearing the house down. You have to have the look, and the charisma. People that tear the house down are doing just that, tearing the house (shows) down. But give them a mic, or have them market themselves, and if they can't they go no where fast.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah, I agree with that. But that doesn't change the fact that Ahmed Johnson fucking sucked and he would have never gotten over doing the same things....which is what I could have sworn this thread was about.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Ahmed didn't have any charisma either.

[Ermaximus]

What if Norman Smiley was given the GI Bro gimmick instead of Booker T?

What if Glacier was the guy to end Goldberg's streak?

What if Test had actually married Steph both in kayfabe and IRL?

What if Chavo had been given the Latino Heat gimmick in place of Eddie?

[YoungFlyFlashy]

Ahmed Johnson with the Booker T attitude. But Ahmed was unable to talk:(

Ahmed didn't have any charisma either.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Actually, he did have some charsima, but not nearly as much a The Book.

[YoungFlyFlashy]

What if Bret Hart was the jealous brother and Owen Hart was the star?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Right, so Ahmed was unable to talk AND unable to wrestle, but you think the Booker T attitude could have worked for him? That doesn't make any sense.

[YoungFlyFlashy]

Right, so Ahmed was unable to talk AND unable to wrestle, but you think the Booker T attitude could have worked for him? That doesn't make any sense.

"attitude" as far as the whole package from a marketable stand point. He could of gotten "by in the ring" like so many other stars have and do.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Are we talking about people being able to 'get by' or are we talking about people being 'successful'?

[YoungFlyFlashy]

Are we talking about people being able to 'get by' or are we talking about people being 'successful'?

I said "get by in the ring". If Ahmed was pushed in the WWF as a foul mouth gangster from Harlem, I think he would of been successful, I am not saying as successful as Book, but I believe the run would of been a success for him...but...as I stated the first go around...Ahmed couldn't talk.

[Tom Guycott]

What if Glacier was the guy to end Goldberg's streak?

What if Chavo had been given the Latino Heat gimmick in place of Eddie?

1) Sadly, I could see WCW actually doing that one. Glacier was a nobody jobber one notch above "Lightning Foot" Jerry Flynn that made Goldberg's list about 4 different times, but he got the Sub-Zero outfit, epic music, light show, and "snow" budget every time he came out. It's like they were torn between making him a star as he would win against other jobbers, and yet he'd have to lay down for anyone who was a "star". That out of nowhere win over Bill, mirroring Goldberg's debut win over Hugh Morrus (that you just KNEW he was going to lose... seriously, who the fuck is 'Bill Goldberg'?"... OH SNAP! He just kicked out of No Laughing Matter!) would have been enough to kick start his climb to at least the US title.

2) Chavo could have done the Latino Heat thing and gotten VERY over. Eddie already had charisma, and almost anyting he could have done would have been golden. Hell, he could have kept that sneering heel thing he debuted in WCW with and done it big. Chavo has charisma too, but never really any good outlet to show it. Kind of like if The Rock were to have remained Flex Kivana.

[Next Big Thing]

Ahmed Johnson with the Booker T attitude. But Ahmed was unable to talk:(

Or spin on his head... or grow dread locks... or dig it.

[RiX1024]

what if Shawn Michaels got screwed instead of Bret?
What if the Curtain Call never happened, even what if HBK got punished as well?
What if Bret turned up to Nitro with the WWE title?
What if The Rock ran over Austin?
What if Owen didn't break Austin's neck?
What if Owen got the 'The Game' push if he didn't die?
What if Hogan never got the shot at Iron Shiek's belt in 1984?

So many what if's questions, so many to be anwered.

[RiX1024]

i mean answered.