How to turn wrestling "upside down"? [Archive]

Xero

08-28-2010, 01:26 AM

It's really time for another Vince Jr. or Paul Heyman to come in and shake shit up.

Vince Jr., of course, was the one who took the territories out and took wrestling as a whole, turning it into the entertainment spectacle it is today.

While some of Paul Heyman's ideas weren't exactly "new", he introduced A LOT to the US market (even if indirectly, as the Lucha craze would soon come to WCW, for example) and formed the "in your face" and "shoot"-style that was adapted to the Attitude Era by the big two.

These two men, in my opinion, were the sole creators of the modern US wrestling style. Whether it be in the big leagues with WWE, which is currently Vince Jr.'s vision from the 80s turned WAY the fuck up, or the indies with the likes of ROH and EVOLVE, which in my opinion are a scaled down, adapted version of Heyman's vision sans the extreme violence (for the most part).

So I think it's time someone comes in with NEW ideas. Not Paul Heyman, not Eric Bischoff, I honestly believe that if wrestling is going to evolve and not just stay the way it has for the past 15-25 years (I say this because I consider the current WWE to be a regression to the old style, which isn't BAD, but it isn't new) it's going to take someone from OUTSIDE the business with a fresh take to make things interesting again.

So what's your opinion on something like this happening? What could it be? Will an MMA-style product be adapted in the US eventually? Or would it be something completely different?

Would you even want to see something like this? Or do you think there doesn't need to be a drastic change, such as the two presented in this thread?

Jordan

08-28-2010, 01:44 AM

I bet within 10 years somebody opens up a shoot wrestling promotion and it starts to get big. It may influence or compete, but it will fail because WWE will be around forever.

Tom Guycott

08-28-2010, 01:47 AM

Will an MMA-style product be adapted in the US eventually?

Funny you said this. My sarcastic answer just from reading the title was to propose "MME" as turning the wrestling world upside down (WWE), literally of course. Then I thought: "What would MME stand for, Mixed Martial... Entertainment?" MMA with a XFL type presentation, with cameras everywhere from the snack vendor to the ring girls with the round cards to the ref himself?

Looking back at that, sarcasm aside, it is likely that's what it'll be. Someone will find a viable way to combine MMA and wrestling into a marketable commodity. They'll be those fresh eyes the industry needs. It'll take someone with the vision of a Vince Jr and the persuasion ability of a Heyman to marry the two successfully into something that doesn't scream "flash-in-the-pan gimmick" and change the direction of at least wrestling for the forseeable future.

That is, if the world is ready for such a visionary.

St. Jimmy

08-28-2010, 01:58 AM

3 Letters, Mates: H G A

HOT. GAY. ACTION.

whiteyford

08-28-2010, 05:45 AM

Guys like Cornette, and i think Heyman, have been pushing for a more serious MMA style for years now. TNA even did just that for the Angle - Joe cage match a few years ago and got a jump in PPV buys, then never did anything with it. Treating it as a shoot and building up feuds slowly i think would better the product in the long run, but Vince doesnt have to change anything and TNA cant do anything that hasnt been done before.

Next Big Thing

08-28-2010, 08:46 AM

A promotion can't go too far into that shoot/ MMA style without opening themselves up to potential regulation from the state commissions.

If anything, I think we'll see a return to more shoot style interviews, overt sexuality, and dramatic storylines. The problem is Vince and the internet have pretty much killed the kayfabe aspect of wrestling so a promoter won't have the benefit of that in his favor.

Swiss Ultimate

08-28-2010, 09:02 AM

Time travel.

Wolfpack423

08-28-2010, 10:56 AM

Guys like Cornette, and i think Heyman, have been pushing for a more serious MMA style for years now. TNA even did just that for the Angle - Joe cage match a few years ago and got a jump in PPV buys, then never did anything with it. Treating it as a shoot and building up feuds slowly i think would better the product in the long run, but Vince doesnt have to change anything and TNA cant do anything that hasnt been done before.

The crowd hated every second of the MMA portion of the Angle-Joe match and didn't get into it until they started actually having a match. I don't think many people would like it. Look at AJ vs. Frank Trigg, that was another type of match with that style, crowd hated it with a passion. I hope the business stays how it is and doesn't evolve into MMA. It's not necessary. I am not a fan of MMA/UFC and that type of things. I only am interested in the Lesnar fights.

Swiss Ultimate

08-28-2010, 10:58 AM

Maybe they'll promote like MMA promotes though...

Tom Guycott

08-28-2010, 11:13 AM

Just what I said. Someone will find a way to cross-polinate the two in a way that doesn't make it seem gimmicky (Lion's Den match), one-off (Angle-Joe feud), or stupid (Brawl 4 All).

It would take someone LIKE Heyman, but not specifically him per se. Just someone with that fire and drive and ability to make people believe that what he's trying to present is pure gold. (Like that speech on "Beyond the Mat" Paul E. gave the locker room before the PPV. That made ME want to wrestle for him and put on the best match ever, and I was just watching TV).

Next Big Thing

08-28-2010, 11:29 AM

Maybe they'll promote like MMA promotes though...

You mean go back to the way wrestling used to promote since MMA, particularly UFC, has borrowed heavily from boxing and wrestling in promoting the sport. Look at everything from the depiction of the fighters all the way down to the ring attire. The more I look at it, the more I have to say that wrestling as we remember it is dead and isn't coming back. Vince is the top dog and will dictate what goes and as long as the competition is too small or incompetent to challenge him, wrestling won't be turned on its head.

Swiss Ultimate

08-28-2010, 11:39 AM

Even so, you'll have the people who take over after Vince and they'll have their own ideas. Maybe, they won't be satisfied with the viewership of the current brand of sports entertainment?

What Would Kevin Do?

08-28-2010, 12:02 PM

You know, I think TNA has something going with there little post impact show. It's sort of a backstage look, more "real", but it gives the guys real personalities, sort of like the way MMA fighters have them.

Kane Knight

08-28-2010, 12:33 PM

Guaranteed ideas to turn wrestling upside down:

End the PG Era: By having John Cena personally rape every child fan's mother.
Hire JR to do readings of Shakespeare.
Rehash the Attitude Era completely. Wait, this is how to change wrestling drastically, not how smarks would "fix" wrestling.
Make Vince Russo Head Booker of any major promotion. It will turn shit on its ear before the bankruptcy.
Deathmatches. Two men enter, one man exits.
legitimise wrestling by trying to cash in on MMA. It worked before.
Bring Back Playboy spreads...Starting with Santina.
Dixie Carter and Stephanie get married.
Strap Michael Cole in a suicide vest. People will tune in every week to see if he dies.
The same as before, but with Hogan.
Champions who reflect America: braindead hillbillies in hoverounds and Mexicans.

Swiss Ultimate

08-28-2010, 12:39 PM

Guaranteed ideas to turn wrestling upside down:

End the PG Era: By having John Cena personally rape every child fan's mother.
Hire JR to do readings of Shakespeare.
Rehash the Attitude Era completely. Wait, this is how to change wrestling drastically, not how smarks would "fix" wrestling.
Make Vince Russo Head Booker of any major promotion. It will turn shit on its ear before the bankruptcy.
Deathmatches. Two men enter, one man exits.
legitimise wrestling by trying to cash in on MMA. It worked before.
Bring Back Playboy spreads...Starting with Santina.
Dixie Carter and Stephanie get married.
Strap Michael Cole in a suicide vest. People will tune in every week to see if he dies.
The same as before, but with Hogan.
Champions who reflect America: braindead hillbillies in hoverounds and Mexicans.

FTW

whiteyford

08-28-2010, 01:37 PM

Guaranteed ideas to turn wrestling upside down:

Deathmatches. Two men enter, one man exits.

Tina Turner for guest host then?

Nark Order

08-28-2010, 03:07 PM

jerichoholicninja

08-28-2010, 03:10 PM

You know, I think TNA has something going with there little post impact show. It's sort of a backstage look, more "real", but it gives the guys real personalities, sort of like the way MMA fighters have them.

I really think this is going to be the future. Making wrestling more like a reality show. WWE and TNA both have elements of that but TNA is doing the best. TNA doesn't hype up the charitable work and outside ventures of their performers as if they are normal people outside the ring like WWE does. They instead portray the wrestlers as the same people outside of the ring as they are inside.

With reality TV being the huge craze it has been for years now I can't believe Vince hasn't done it. But then again Vince is usually about 8 years behind the times.

Swiss Ultimate

08-28-2010, 04:21 PM

Swiss Ultimate

08-28-2010, 04:22 PM

I really think this is going to be the future. Making wrestling more like a reality show. WWE and TNA both have elements of that but TNA is doing the best. TNA doesn't hype up the charitable work and outside ventures of their performers as if they are normal people outside the ring like WWE does. They instead portray the wrestlers as the same people outside of the ring as they are inside.

With reality TV being the huge craze it has been for years now I can't believe Vince hasn't done it. But then again Vince is usually about 8 years behind the times.

Tough Enough...NXT, both trying to cash in on reality tv.

jerichoholicninja

08-28-2010, 05:48 PM

Tough Enough...NXT, both trying to cash in on reality tv.

Yes. But Tough Enough was "real" reality TV and NXT is only "reality" in that it's a "competition".

TNA's reaction is the what I'm talking about specifically. It's reality style, but still scripted. Abyss is a sick, twisted monster on Impact and then also when he "exists" outside of the ring on Reaction. Randy Orton is the Viper and beats the shit out of Shameus with a chair but on the very same show is shown promoting reading at SummerSlam.

I used way too many quotes but do you get what I'm getting at?

Next Big Thing

08-28-2010, 06:21 PM

I like Reaction too. I think it helps further the storylines and is much better at times than a rambling in ring promo. However, there are some times when it's corny such as the Dreamer/ AJ Styles bit at the end. Hopefully WWE starts doing something similar because I think they could do a little bit better of a job production wise.

Swiss Ultimate

08-28-2010, 06:23 PM

Yes. But Tough Enough was "real" reality TV and NXT is only "reality" in that it's a "competition".

TNA's reaction is the what I'm talking about specifically. It's reality style, but still scripted. Abyss is a sick, twisted monster on Impact and then also when he "exists" outside of the ring on Reaction. Randy Orton is the Viper and beats the shit out of Shameus with a chair but on the very same show is shown promoting reading at SummerSlam.

I used way too many quotes but do you get what I'm getting at?

I understand. I don't think it's a new concept though, from what you're describing. Sounds like how they handled things in the 70s and 80s.

Londoner

08-29-2010, 01:01 AM

Look at everything from the depiction of the fighters all the way down to the ring attire. The more I look at it, the more I have to say that wrestling as we remember it is dead and isn't coming back. Vince is the top dog and will dictate what goes and as long as the competition is too small or incompetent to challenge him, wrestling won't be turned on its head.

Yeah, been feeling this alot too. :(

Londoner

08-29-2010, 01:02 AM

Strap Michael Cole in a suicide vest. People will tune in every week to see if he dies.

[/LIST]

Holy fuck, what an idea!

Lock Jaw

08-29-2010, 01:15 AM

Three easy steps:

1) Unplug TV
2) Turn TV Upside Down
3) Plug TV Back In

And voila! I guarantee that wrestling will be turned upside down! (along with many other of your stale favorites)

sulzerdrone

08-29-2010, 02:53 AM

Let's face it. Kayfabe is dead. There's no bringing it back and Dana White is the new Vince/Heyman.

The only way to make wrestling huge again is by doing exactly what the WWE is doing. Go PG, attract a young audience, and progress with them as they mature. A process that is proven. (80's = PG era, progress with that audience into an "Attitude" era. Wash, rinse, repeat...)

Josef Von Schmidt

08-29-2010, 03:28 AM

Ze only way to turn as you say ze wrestling world upside down is to make it more GERMAN and have me be ze leader.

Eet would not be like ze last time ze world had a GERMANY based leader. I don't even have ze 'tasche.

Tom Guycott

08-29-2010, 08:25 AM

Guaranteed ideas to turn wrestling upside down:

Hire JR to do readings of Shakespeare.

JR: "No... No, son... don't do it... BAWGAWD, DON'T DO IT, OTHELLO!"
King: "OH NO!"
JR: "DAMN HIM! DAMN HIM! DAMN HIM STRAIGHT TO HELL! THAT BASTARD KILLED HER! HE KILLED DESDEMONA! DAMN HIM!"

whiteyford

08-29-2010, 04:08 PM

JR: "No... No, son... don't do it... BAWGAWD, DON'T DO IT, OTHELLO!"
King: "OH NO!"
JR: "DAMN HIM! DAMN HIM! DAMN HIM STRAIGHT TO HELL! THAT BASTARD KILLED HER! HE KILLED DESDEMONA! DAMN HIM!"

I would actually watch this. :rofl: