Has the in-ring action in WWE ever been better than right now?

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'm not asking if there have ever been people you enjoyed more or whatever, but pretty much all across the board, there are some VERY talented in-ring wrestlers in the WWE. If you don't watch Smackdown, you might not really agree, but guys like Jack Swagger, Kofi Kingston, Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler, Kaval, Rey Mysterio, Daniel Bryan, John Morrison, Evan Bourne, Ted DiBiase, R-Truth, etc...they can all GO in the ring and they are all capable of having great matches. That list was just off the top of my head.

How would you guys compare today's in-ring product to yesteryear?

[SOCCER LEGS]

theres some great performers right now but the strong emphasis on safety and banning dangerous moves really takes a lot out wind out of the sails.

[Xero]

theres some great performers right now but the strong emphasis on safety and banning dangerous moves really takes a lot out wind out of the sails.

Honestly, I think this is a big reason why there's so many quality wrestlers now. They're able to work around it and still have some awesome matches. Maybe not mind blowing, but compared to a lot of WWE's history, they're really awesome.

But you also have to remember that it's a different time. The product is now much faster than it was even 12 years ago, and there's A LOT more variety. And there are, for the most part, less squash matches. Yeah, you'll get some squashes here and there, but for the most part there's actual wrestling over three big moves and a pin.

Getting away from the bigger bodies allows them to focus more on talent, too.

[Anybody Thrilla]

theres some great performers right now but the strong emphasis on safety and banning dangerous moves really takes a lot out wind out of the sails.

I don't think you really need 'dangerous' moves to have awesome matches. Also, I think today's grappler is being pushed to be more creative by NOT using those moves.

Did you happen to see DiBiase vs. Bryan at Survivor Series? That match was completely within the confines of modern WWE's rules, but there were some brutal looking spots, and it was a great match all around.

[SOCCER LEGS]

i think that the hard crackdown on steroids as of late has done a lot to help the performances in the ring also... most of the younger guys in the company are quick and athletic rather than oversized, slow and injury prone.

[BollywoodSingh]

Nothing beats the quality of matches from 2001 for me. Most of the PPV main events were awesome and every PPV seemed like it had a match of the year candidate. Had WWE not blown the Invasion angle, it would have been a perfect year.

[Beth Phoenix Fan]

I'd Like to see Daniel Bryan vs Kaval, that would be a great match.

[Shadrick]

Honestly, no. And I love it.

[Emperor Smeat]

I would say yes mainly due to the past WWF/WWE years having entertaining tag team and lower divisions but considering the Brand Split years only, this has been a rare year where both brands have a lot of quality wrestlers in every division and not just the main event division.

Even the lower tier shows (NXT, ECW, Superstars) are full of talented wrestlers or future talented wrestlers.

[Juan]

I'd Like to see Daniel Bryan vs Kaval, that would be a great match.

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[Anybody Thrilla]

I found myself getting pretty into the Curt Hawkins/Trent Barreta match on Superstars. Pleasantly surprised there.

[Droford]

Cant wait til they go away from PG and start doing crappy 2 minute matches again.

oh wait..umm..no I dont

[CSL]

theres some great performers right now but the strong emphasis on safety and banning dangerous moves really takes a lot out wind out of the sails.

You might wanna go watch some puro guys drop each other on their heads or some skinny guys do 30 moves a minute in that case.

[Jordan]

It's finally gotten better all across the boards just like you said. I agree 100%

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

You might wanna go watch some puro guys drop each other on their heads or some skinny guys do 30 moves a minute in that case.

Or just go right ahead and watch condoned barbarism in CZW's Tournaments of Death. I wonder what the interview process is to become a "wrestler" in CZW. It would probably go something like this:

1. Do you think wrestling is real Yes/No?:
-If Yes please continue, if No you are not CZW material thank you.

2. Do you have an IQ below 100?

3. Are willing to have matches involving Florescant lights, barbed wire, fire, tables, thumb tacks?

4. Are you able to botch every move possible to put you and your opponent in the most danger as possible?

5. Do you think this will get you noticed by the WWE, TNA, ROH, Chikara, your local Indy fed where even Heidenrecih and Matt Bourne can get work at?

6. Do you like being paid for work? If yes, try a real job. This is CZW!!! It's hardcore to be poor and disfigured and have nothing to show for it!

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

99% of WWE matches are bland, formulaic, and predictable.

[CSL]

You might wanna go watch some puro guys drop each other on their heads or some skinny guys do 30 moves a minute in that case.

[The Show Off]

Is the in-ring talent the best ever? Yeah probably.

Is it the most consistantly good in ring action ever? Probably again.

Is it the best in-ring action the WWE has ever had? No. And I'll tell you why.

Though almost all the matches in the WWE right now are pretty good, none are great. The WWE has been seriously lacking in great matches for the past two years. In the last 2 years their have only been a handful of "great" matches HBK/Taker I & II, Orton/Cena Iron Man, Punk/Hady Ladder Match and that's about it. The amount of good matches it at an all time high in the WWE but the amount of "great" matches is at an all time low.

[Inadequacy]

Just on the topic of great matches I wanted to add the Cena-HBK iron man match from Raw

[The Gold Standard]

I do not remember a time where there have been so many solid guys out there. Not since the attitude era I think. I enjoy mostly everyone now. I even enjoy Mark Henry matches lol.

[Brigstocke]

I've got to say it is pretty good now but I think in 2004 there were much more skilled workers in the WWE. and some of the guys that are still working now were in their 'prime' in my opinion.

Angle, Jericho, Benoit, Eddy, Edge, Christian, Regal, Rey, HHH to some extent was even enjoyable then.

[James Steele]

Brig, Triple H was extremely enjoyable during that time or any time for that matter.

[Rammsteinmad]

2002 - 2004/5 had an amazing roster, the matches then were pretty awesome.

[MoFo]

In the last 2 years their have only been a handful of "great" matches.......Orton/Cena Iron Man



That match was awful wtf are you on about?

Anyway yes, Smackdown always has good matches as does Superstars and even Raw here and there. I still think 2000/2001 when they were stacked with guys like 'The Radicals', Triple H, Jericho, E&C, Angle etc were better than now though.

[Brigstocke]

Brig, Triple H was extremely enjoyable during that time or any time for that matter.

Didn't see this post coming you bloody predictable swine.

[nelioneil]

2002-2004 smackdown was excellent to watch :)

[Anybody Thrilla]

On the subject of "current" great matches, John Morrison/Evan Bourne from JoMo's last night on ECW was epic.

[The Show Off]

Just on the topic of great matches I wanted to add the Cena-HBK iron man match from Raw

That was more than 2 years ago. But then again you might have just been saying this autonomusly from my post if so my bad.

That match was awful wtf are you on about?

Anyway yes, Smackdown always has good matches as does Superstars and even Raw here and there. I still think 2000/2001 when they were stacked with guys like 'The Radicals', Triple H, Jericho, E&C, Angle etc were better than now though.

I thought it was great but then again its all opinions.

[Xero]

I honestly feel that the first Dolph/Danielson match on PPV was the second best match WWE has had all year.

[Stickman]

To be honest I don't think I can give a fair opinion on this. I don't care about any of the personalities. Very few rasslers interest me from a booking or storyline standpoint, it's hard to just sit and watch a match.

Also, I feel that too much of wrestling is done by the book, you seldom see guys go to the ring knowing just the finish and go perform, it seems like everybody goes out and follows the script move by move. Maybe that's not the case but I can't see past the not caring for the gimmick or story.

[Steveviscious89]

Well...no one's said it yet, but I have to give my vote to around 2000. The radicals had just come in and they were very solid. Dean Malenko made Scotty Too Hotty look incredible. Also, HHH and Rock were still young enough to make great things happen. My opinion...it had the best wrestling with personality, and personality should count towards in ring product.

[Jimmy Cones]

2002 - 2004/5 had an amazing roster, the matches then were pretty awesome.

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[Ultra Mantis]

The midcard right now is in the best shape it's ever been, it's pretty much stacked with guys who can consistantly put on great matches.

[Jordan]

The tag title match from Survivor Series was really good for its length. (Thats what she said)

[dingdongyo]

the only thing i would say has been better in the past is the story-telling part to matches, even though that's kind of ethereal to me. i just cared more back then than i do now.

[bigslimjj]

If someone thinks watching Cena wrestle for an hour is good, then they should go watch Steamboat and Rude do a half hour iron man. It was 3 times as good as John Semen and Robot Orton's catastrophe of a match.It was all gimmicks man.Weak sauce.

[Triple Naitch]

I was watching the beginning of SummerSlam 2000 earlier and realized how bad the mid-card was then. The two opening matches were Road Dogg vs. X-Pac and Right 2 Censor vs. 2 Cool and Rikishi. Today's mid-card blows them out of the water.

[CSL]

If someone thinks watching Cena wrestle for an hour is good, then they should go watch Steamboat and Rude do a half hour iron man. It was 3 times as good as John Semen and Robot Orton's catastrophe of a match.It was all gimmicks man.Weak sauce.

Congratulations on making possibly the worst post in the history of this forum. Quite an accomplishment.

[Jeritron]

Overall: Yes
Main-Events: Probably not.

In the late 90s/early 2000s, some of the best workers ever were in the main event. They were able to put on better main events as a small group, and they also had the advantage of stronger writing and hotter crowds to fuel them.
I think WWE could get there again, but that was sort of a renaissance for main events.

But overall I think you could make a case for the entire show being as strong as it's ever been wrestling wise.
The midcard is the strongest it's probably been since 2001. The tag division is lacking, but that crop of uppermidcard talents more than makes up for it.

[Xero]

I agree with Jeritron. The main event can't hold up against mid-late 90s to mid-2000s. But overall, it's great.

And the midcard is so strong because they're now finally building a roster from basically scratch. A good majority in the mid card now that make it great will be the main event within 5 years.

[Jeritron]

My answers are opposite of what they should be. I knew what you were asking but I technically answered the thread title wrong

No
Yes

But you all knew what I meant

[Anybody Thrilla]

I had no clue what you meant, and still don't.

Kidding, I actually agree with that pretty much.

[Jeritron]

I think for a long time people knocked on WWE's developmental compared to the indies when it came to breeding talent.
And the indies still do breed tremendous talent, but WWE's developmental is really starting to look better and better. It makes sense, since it's fairly new. People should have known it would have taken a while before the results emerged.

[Jeritron]

That Danielson/Kaval match from FCW is great. Plus Barrett on commentary. Great stuff.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Wrestling fans demand immediate results.

[McLegend]

Of course it's been better.

[Jeritron]

Wrestling fans demand immediate results.

It's awesome to see talent dating back to Tough Enough starting to take over.
Miz and Morrison, namely.

Even indie gems like CM Punk and Danielson definitely benefit greatly from spending some time in FCW, I think.

:y: WWE developmental

[Jeritron]

Paul London is too cool for it though

[Anybody Thrilla]

Hone my craft...smoke some weed...hone my craft...smoke some weed....decisions, decisions.

[McLegend]

I get why WWE does it the way they do, but they should let there FCW/developmental talent wrestle in the indies.

[Jeritron]

If FCW is the minor leagues, then the indies are college. If a wrestler is worthy of being signed by WWE through what they prove in the indies, they move onto FCW and try to work their way up to "the show."
I don't think they should be dipping back into the indies once they're under contract with the E. It's the same as ever, they just have a little bit more of a preperation process now between indies and the weekly product.

I do wish the indies were a bit more defined and active, though. There aren't really territories like there used to be, and although ROH has a big cult following I don't think you really see the same type of thing as we did in the 90s, with wrestlers working their way through Japan and ECW.
A lot of that could be part of WWE being so far on top, and also the internet doing away with a lot of the old way of wrestler's building a hype through tape trading and magazines.

[thedamndest]

It's being treated more as a sport than it has been. Striker explains why wrestlers do certain moves and from that point of view it's the best since Gorilla/Jesse/Bobby Heenan.

[Jeritron]

youtube takes some fun out of it. Now when you hear about some sensation the WWE has signed, you can see everything they have ever done in one search.
Unless you were a tape trading guru, you would have the mystique of wondering what a wrestler was all about from blurbs in PWI, or something.
Knowing what was going on in the indies was way harder back then. Even ECW was something I only saw pictures of, and the occasional show at 2am on the spanish channel or something.
RVD was hyped up to me for like a year before I ever got to see a real match.

[McLegend]

If FCW is the minor leagues, then the indies are college. If a wrestler is worthy of being signed by WWE through what they prove in the indies, they move onto FCW and try to work their way up to "the show."
I don't think they should be dipping back into the indies once they're under contract with the E. It's the same as ever, they just have a little bit more of a preperation process now between indies and the weekly product.

I disargee. Look how much better CM Punk was then John Morrison when he came up. It mostly because CM Punk wrestled all over the World for years as to opposed to John Morrison who didn't. I'm not sure, but I don't think most of the devoplmental guys have been successful in WWE.

2/3 of the people on the NXT shows look like they should be in the indies for like 2 more years.

[Jeritron]

A lot of that is also probably just times changing. I used to get all excited for the rare ECW viewing because it was either by luck when you were staying up late on a weekend, or by way of some friend who unwittingly got a grandparent or uncle to buy it for them, and was hiding it from their mom or something.
Indie wrestling has gone the way of porn. It was better when you could only get it on vhs or in magazines.

[owenbrown]

Or just go right ahead and watch condoned barbarism in CZW's Tournaments of Death. I wonder what the interview process is to become a "wrestler" in CZW. It would probably go something like this:

1. Do you think wrestling is real Yes/No?:
-If Yes please continue, if No you are not CZW material thank you.

2. Do you have an IQ below 100?

3. Are willing to have matches involving Florescant lights, barbed wire, fire, tables, thumb tacks?

4. Are you able to botch every move possible to put you and your opponent in the most danger as possible?

5. Do you think this will get you noticed by the WWE, TNA, ROH, Chikara, your local Indy fed where even Heidenrecih and Matt Bourne can get work at?

6. Do you like being paid for work? If yes, try a real job. This is CZW!!! It's hardcore to be poor and disfigured and have nothing to show for it!

WAITAMINUTE....SOCCER LEGS is this guy?

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[Jeritron]

I disargee. Look how much better CM Punk was then John Morrison when he came up. It mostly because CM Punk wrestled all over the World for years as to opposed to John Morrison who didn't. I'm not sure, but I don't think most of the devoplmental guys have been successful in WWE.

2/3 of the people on the NXT shows look like they should be in the indies for like 2 more years.

I didn't say developmental wrestlers were better than indie wrestlers, though. On the contrary I was all for indie wrestling.
I was just saying that developmental is just minor leagues for the WWE, and once you've signed there I don't really see the merit in going back to the indies.
They should sign more guys like CM Punk, but I don't think taking someone like John Morrison and firing him to go scratch makes much sense either.
They want to hold onto a commodity like that. They can simulate experience the best they can. It's no match for indie experience, no, but it's better than just not holding onto him and letting TNA scoop him up.

It's just two different types of rookies.

[CSL]

If FCW is the minor leagues, then the indies are college. If a wrestler is worthy of being signed by WWE through what they prove in the indies, they move onto FCW and try to work their way up to "the show."

From a basic career/money point of view for 98% of the wrestlers on earth that's pretty much true. That said, some of the very best wrestlers on earth will never get near WWE strictly because of the way they look or don't know the right guy etc and in regards to the pro/minors/college analogy, a couple of times I've seen a show in front of 100 chairs that was better than your average WWE PPV in regards to match quality. That said, that 2% that can make a living, enjoy the flexibility etc tend to jump when offered a deal anyway. That's my praise for indy wrestling done for the year.

[McLegend]

But I'm saying that once they sign someone like Morrison they should still let him go out and wrestle in the indies. That would greatly benefit the wrestler.

I get why WWE doesn't do it that way, because they want to protect their investment. I can't fault them for that.

[Jeritron]

I'm not sure, but I don't think most of the devoplmental guys have been successful in WWE.


This is true too, but really irrelevant. Most of the indie guys havne't been successful in WWE either.
Mike Modest is probably still living in that promoter's attic.
Big-time success is rare from any angle. You're either cut out for WWE tv or you aren't.
I don't think either is being faked. CM Punk and Morrison aren't great examples here, since they're both tremendously talented.
CM Punk had way more experience and talent, but Morrison also was a talent WWE wasn't going to tell "you're not ready."

You're absolutely right about that experience not being there. That's why it's taken longer for him to blossom.
But that's also been done on TV and not developmental. Developmental can now allow that to mostly occur off of television.

I may agree with you that developmental should include more than one promotion, and perhaps be found in different territories or even tour. At the very least, maybe it should be less under the microscope of the WWE.
That would be a more accurate simulation of the indies.

But it's definitely in the best interest of the entire business and all different types of fans that companies like ROH and DragonGate, Chikara, etc. stay in business.

[Jeritron]

WWE developmental also has the ability to bring talents into wrestling that wouldn't neccessarily wind up there in the first place.
Guys like The Rock. He was before this time, but he had connections with the business. Most don't have that. A guy like him would never work his way through the indies.
Same with Brock.

And it can be easily argued that those type of guys are only short term values, since they don't really love the business and will move on when they get the chance. But there are definitely a whole ton of naturally gifted talents that will become wrestlers and work for the WWE that just wouldn't work in the indies.
Developmental allows them to use those types of talents, like they always have, but prepare them a bit better and make them far less green.
I bet Bill Golberg would have done a lot better if he had gone through FCW and not the Power Plant.
Guys like Sheamus, Barrett and Swagger can be drawn into the wrestling industry with a secure and healthy working environment and make great contributions to television, when they just wouldn't become wrestlers otherwise.
Ex-athletes and such.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

WAITAMINUTE....SOCCER LEGS is this guy?

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Probably. What a piece of crap promo that where are the airhorns when they are really necessary? This guy is gonna talk about somebody else being fat? Looks like he hasn't missed a meal in his entire pathetic life!

[CSL]

WWE developmental also has the ability to bring talents into wrestling that wouldn't neccessarily wind up there in the first place.
Guys like The Rock. He was before this time, but he had connections with the business. Most don't have that. A guy like him would never work his way through the indies.
Same with Brock.

And it can be easily argued that those type of guys are only short term values, since they don't really love the business and will move on when they get the chance. But there are definitely a whole ton of naturally gifted talents that will become wrestlers and work for the WWE that just wouldn't work in the indies.
Developmental allows them to use those types of talents, like they always have, but prepare them a bit better and make them far less green.
I bet Bill Golberg would have done a lot better if he had gone through FCW and not the Power Plant.
Guys like Sheamus, Barrett and Swagger can be drawn into the wrestling industry with a secure and healthy working environment and make great contributions to television, when they just wouldn't become wrestlers otherwise.
Ex-athletes and such.

That's true. Although there are plenty of 'failures' from doing things that way, one Brock Lesnar or Jack Swagger pretty much make it worth it. Only downside is the guys who just aren't cut out for it take up decent spots in the indies that much more talented guys could use strictly off the back of the WWE name. That said, it's a pretty small number and obviously, WWE could not possibly care less about that.

Also, give the homeboys some credit, Sheamus and Wade Stu Barrett Sanders were working the same tiny ass venues as every other guy in this country before their tryouts so they 'deserve' it as much as anybody ;)

[Jeritron]

I give Sheamus and Barrett all the credit in the world. Their two of the best parts about wrestling now and in the future.
Along with The Miz and CM Punk, they're basically the reason I watch right now. And Bryan.