Wrestlers VS. Company: The Draw Debate

[Swiss Ultimate]

Let's start off with a simple series of questions.

Do you want to go to Wrestlemania?

What if Miz, Orton, Cena, Undertaker, Edge, Kane and Morrison were all injured a month prior and would not appear on the show? Would you still want to watch Wrestlemania?

If you were offered free tickets to an indie show within walking distance to your house but, every wrestler on the show was completely terrible or unknown to you but one who happened to be someone you really like and are impressed with, would you go?

If your favorite wrestler was to leave your favorite show to go to the competition, would you watch the show just for them?

[Lara Emily]

What if Miz, Orton, Cena, Undertaker, Edge, Kane and Morrison were all injured a month prior and would not appear on the show? Would you still want to watch Wrestlemania?

Absolutely it'd be the craziest Wrestlemania ever. They could put Dolph Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan as the Main Event and give them 30 minutes, or push Wade Barrett to the moon.

If you were offered free tickets to an indie show within walking distance to your house but, every wrestler on the show was completely terrible or unknown to you but one who happened to be someone you really like and are impressed with, would you go?

Is it garbage CZW wrestling? Cause then no. Are they all terrib le or have I just never heard of them, those are two separate things so if it was free and not CZW I'd take the chance providing I didn't have better things to do on the night of the show

If your favorite wrestler was to leave your favorite show to go to the competition, would you watch the show just for them?

Is it TNA cause then fuck no. I'd at most follow it through internet reports nad maybe check out the individual matches of that wrestler.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I'd go to Wrestlemania, I might go to the backyard thing, and I'd definitely watch Jericho in TNA.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I leave the option of them being terrible or simply unknown to you.

[Swiss Ultimate]

The main point of this thread, for me, is that I think the whole concept of the draw is somewhat outdated. When Wrestling spilt over into the public eye and Austin VS. The Rock was the main-event, I feel like that could be considered a draw. Millions of examples before Austin and Rock left the business but, nowadays it seems like people are more interested in the company itself than individual wrestlers.

If Cena and Orton left the company at the same time I don't believe that the company would be anywhere near as badly hurt when Bret Hart, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall left the WWF or when Eddie G, Malenko and the Jobber left WCW.

Some legitimately over wrestlers went to TNA and it has not increased rating significantly. I feel like people would go to Wrestlemania because it's the WWE and not because of who was on the card (pretty much everyone in the company is solid in the ring). Would they complain if they didn't get spectacular matches? Of course, but I feel like they'd watch either way.

Can't say that about Bound for Glory.

[Lara Emily]

I think what you've highlighted is that the WWE and TNA currently suck at creating those icon legendary draws.

Cena is not Bret Hart, Shawn Micheals, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin or the Rock

and btw if TNA had good storylines, great wrestling and not fucking stupid booking/management and then my fav wrestler ever moved over I'd be more inclined to follow it closely

[Swiss Ultimate]

That's a lot of "ifs".

Also, I dunno, I like The Miz way better than Hogan, Bret Hart was great but never achieved anything like Hulkamania, 3:16 or singalong with The Rock (which it wasn't).

There are plenty of compelling characters in the WWE, however, unless wrestling becomes a big deal again with another peak I don't see any single wrestler becoming a game-changer.

[James Steele]

You and the entire world have my word that I would move to Orlando, Florida and attend every TNA event religiously if Triple H signs with TNA.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Triple H in TNA would be a wtf moment if there ever was one.

[Gertner]

1) Yes

2) Fuck no

3) No

[Rammsteinmad]

I'd go to Wrestlemania, I might go to the backyard thing, and I'd definitely watch Jericho or Punk in TNA.

:yes:

[YoungFlyFlashy]

Let's start off with a simple series of questions.

Do you want to go to Wrestlemania?

What if Miz, Orton, Cena, Undertaker, Edge, Kane and Morrison were all injured a month prior and would not appear on the show? Would you still want to watch Wrestlemania?

If you were offered free tickets to an indie show within walking distance to your house but, every wrestler on the show was completely terrible or unknown to you but one who happened to be someone you really like and are impressed with, would you go?

If your favorite wrestler was to leave your favorite show to go to the competition, would you watch the show just for them?

1a. Yes, already been to WM 24 and loved it!

2a. Of course, the experience alone is worth the trip.

3a. I would check it out, don't know if I would stay the whole show.

4a. Yes.

[ooTin]

mmmmm..... who cares?

[Razzamajazz]

i'd go to wrestlemania just for the whole experience of it, even if the main event was vickie vs kelly kelly in a pudding match

[ooTin]

i'd go to wrestlemania just for the whole experience of it, even if the main event was vickie vs kelly kelly in a pudding match

REALLY? I think not because $250+ for a pudding match is fucking stupid... you should feel stupid.... you stupid stupid head.....

[Razzamajazz]

but owning the original ECW belt and wearing it around everywhere like you're special isn't stupid?

[Nightwing]

Id still watch wrestlemania cause it would be interesting to see where they went with it. Id prolly still go, since you have to get tickets way ahead of time anyways.

Depends on the wrestler showing up I suppose.

I watched when Christian jumped, so yes.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Yes, Yes, No, No.

Yes, I'd go and I'd go even if those guys weren't their. WrestleMania survived for many years without those people you listed and it will last long after they are all retired.

Yes and i have done this before. I went to a indy show in Natick,MA just to see a friend of a friend wrestle. Walking distance would probably mean backyard wrestling because I live in the suburbs. So, it would have to be an Indy show and it would have to be INSIDE a lodge-hall or something like that.

No, I'm a team-first fan. No matter who is on the team I'm going to love the New England Patriots. I'm not going to suddenly be a fan of whatever team Tom Brady goes to if he ever leaves the Patriots. If the players leave then they must not have been up to Bellchicks' standards and are thus dead to me. Also, TNA still has Vince Russo. So, even if the Miz, Chris Jericho, Edge, Alberto Del Rio, Dashing Cody Rhodes, Drew Mac all went to TNA the company would still suck because they can't book worth a shit.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I think what you've highlighted is that the WWE and TNA currently suck at creating those icon legendary draws.

Cena is not Bret Hart, Shawn Micheals, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin or the Rock

and btw if TNA had good storylines, great wrestling and not fucking stupid booking/management and then my fav wrestler ever moved over I'd be more inclined to follow it closely

Yeah and if Frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their ass when they hopped. :)

[Fox]

People filled the Hartford Civic Center to watch Bam Bam Bigelow vs Lawrence Taylor and Diesel vs Shawn Michaels.

They'll watch fucking anything.

[Lara Emily]

That's a lot of "ifs".

Also, I dunno, I like The Miz way better than Hogan, Bret Hart was great but never achieved anything like Hulkamania, 3:16 or singalong with The Rock (which it wasn't).

There are plenty of compelling characters in the WWE, however, unless wrestling becomes a big deal again with another peak I don't see any single wrestler becoming a game-changer.

Bret is probably one of the biggest international draws of all time

[jerichoholicninja]

Wrestlemania tickets go on sale months before any match is even announced and people still line up to buy tickets.

[MoFo]

Its the company that draws, obv.

[whiteyford]

Wrestlemania tickets go on sale months before any match is even announced and people still line up to buy tickets.

Pretty much that. Wrestlemanias like the superbowl or world cup final, its an event no matter whose in it, just some years you have more of an investment than others.

I go through phases of trying to follow TNA every so often, but after a while it physically hurts my brain and i have to stop, dont think that would change no matter who jumped ship.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Bret is probably one of the biggest international draws of all time

Really? Flair and Hogan I feel could be described as such but, Bret?

I could be wrong though.

[Lara Emily]

Really? Flair and Hogan I feel could be described as such but, Bret?

I could be wrong though.

At the height of his career Bret was incredibly popular in Europe and Canada, like insanely over. I'd say internationally Bret was more over then Flair.

[Gertner]

Flair main evented some major ass event in Korea which drew something nuts like 250,000

[Loose Cannon]

Do I want to Go to Wrestlemania: Yea. But only if they did it here in Charlotte or wherever I am living at the time. Don't feel like flying or driving hours to see it. Although I would probably stay a week if I had to fly somewhere, so never mind.

Next question about the injuries: Yes


Yes, I would go to the Indy show. It's not too much out of my way if I can just walk to it

If Orton went to TNA, I wouldn't just watch for him, but I would watch the show. I watch TNA every now and then, so it'll prob be the same

[What Would Kevin Do?]

1. Yes, although it depends on the card, and how the product is building up to it. I had a chance to go to Mania in Detroit, but didn't as I wasn't feeling the product at the time.

2. Probably, just depends on the card, etc. Don't care about Orton, Taker, or Kane anyway.

3. Yes if they were unknowns, no if they were just flat out terrible.

4. Depends. I'd probably give them a chance. Hell, I keep sporadically giving TNA chances anyway.

[The Fugitive]

Let's start off with a simple series of questions.

Do you want to go to Wrestlemania?

I imagine anyone who is a fan of wrestling, whether casual or smart, wants to attend at least one Wrestlemania.

What if Miz, Orton, Cena, Undertaker, Edge, Kane and Morrison were all injured a month prior and would not appear on the show? Would you still want to watch Wrestlemania?I doubt they wouldn't appear. They wouldn't be participating, but I'm sure they'll be there in some form or another, a promo, managing or commentary. Would I still watch? Sure, either WWE does okay or we get to witness a car crash live.

If you were offered free tickets to an indie show within walking distance to your house but, every wrestler on the show was completely terrible or unknown to you but one who happened to be someone you really like and are impressed with, would you go?

Of course. Worst case scenario, everyone's having a bad night but you don't feel like you got ripped off since it was a free ticket. Better case scenario, someone you didn't know existed is on their game that evening and wins you over, giving you a reason to support them and that company in the future.

If your favorite wrestler was to leave your favorite show to go to the competition, would you watch the show just for them?

I wouldn't go out of my way to watch, no. Would I keep myself informed of what they're doing, yes. If something I hear or read catches my attention, then I would tune in or attend.

Going back to the title of the thread: As other people have said, at the end of the day, people buy tickets to see the company, not the people. Best example. TNA. You have a Who's Who of wrestling who have walked through those doors. Currently, you have Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, Ric Flair, Mick Foley, Rob Van Dam. In the past, you had Booker T, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, Roddy Piper... point is, even with all those household names, without the WWE machine to market them, very few people care. There's WWE and then there's any other promotion.

The opposite side of that is if a mass walkout happens. Cena, Orton, Trips, Taker, Edge, Miz... some of your biggest names currently up and leave to start their own promotion. Does it mean the promotion will automatically succeed with such starpower? Will Cena and Orton still be seen as 'big deals' even if they're not with WWE? In my opinion, no. They're not in the 'big leagues' anymore. They don't have the WWE machine pushing them and while WWE will be hurting for a bit as they try to make new stars, they'll move on and survive. As for the mass walkout's promotion, without proper marketing, without giving people a reason to attend other than 'Hey, we have your favorite wrestlers here', attendance will drop off and die and those names will return to WWE.

[MIZantine Empire]

i'd go to wrestlemania just for the whole experience of it, even if the main event was vickie vs kelly kelly in a pudding match
thats not terrible, someone has to clean the pudding off of kelly kelly..i guess since no one wants to, i will