Are They That Good or Is Their Division That Bad?

[Next Big Thing]

Looking at guys like GSP, Aldo and Silva, do you guys think that a huge talent gap between them and their division is the reason why they dominant or are they that much better than their opponents? Is it a black belt tapping out white belts or is that one black belt just better than the other black belts?

With GSP, I feel like he's just a superior welterweight. He's beaten some great fighters.

With Anderson and Aldo, I don't know if it's a lack of elite talent or if it's them being so much better. Aldo dominated Faber and Browne who are pretty good talents but with Spyder, I don't think anyone is going to look at the guys he has wrecked at middleweight and say they're the most all around of fighters.

I'm not saying these guys aren't extraordinarily talented and the best at what they do, I just wonder if a lack of opponents at their level may influence their streak and success.

Also, are there any guys you see in the near future who could upset any of them?

Like I've said before, I wouldn't be surprised if Shields won via decision over GSP if he can keep it on the ground. If Brookins drops to 145 I think he might be able to outlast Aldo a second time, especially if Aldo isn't truly 100% and is just trying to gut it out with his injury. I don't see anyone at middleweight beating Silva anytime soon.

[Kris P Lettus]

One thing about GSP and Silva is they fight at a lower weight class than they should.. GSP should be at 185 and Silva should be at 205..

[Next Big Thing]

I agree about Silva, but I feel like GSP has the perfect build for welterweight. Unlike Silva who walks around at 210, GSP never gets above 180 so it's a more natural drop for him.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

One thing about GSP and Silva is they fight at a lower weight class than they should.. GSP should be at 185 and Silva should be at 205..

Dude up until recently GSP walked around at at 185 :|

[Kris P Lettus]

So that would be his natural weight.. Just like silvas is 205..

[IC Champion]

You understand that everyone except like Frankie Edgar cuts weight right? While GSP may be 185, but the guys fighting in MW are walking around at 205 and higher, I heard Silva gets as high at 220.

[Kris P Lettus]

Yeah, but that is something that has changed during the evolution of the sport.. Back in the day, guys fought at their natural weights.. As MMA evolved and the competition got better guys started cutting more and more to stay ahead of the curve.. Which is why guys like Silva, who should fight at 205, fights at 185..

Which was the point of my first post..

[IC Champion]

GSP just isn't big enough yet for 185, and guys have been cutting weight in boxing forever, and it's been done in MMA for as long as I can remember.

How should anyone fight at any one weight, unless your like 275lbs. If he can make the weight, then he can fight in that class, why move up and give up size just because you can?

[Reavant]

Yeah, but that is something that has changed during the evolution of the sport.. Back in the day, guys fought at their natural weights.. As MMA evolved and the competition got better guys started cutting more and more to stay ahead of the curve.. Which is why guys like Silva, who should fight at 205, fights at 185..

Which was the point of my first post..

Did u take a hit to the head recently?

Guys fought at their natural weights when there were no weight classes. Now if you mean
Mma evovolving by forming weight classes, then yes when weight classes were made to cut to, guys started cutting a ton of weight to get to them in order to have an advantage.

Its not like wrestling and boxing have been established for like 100 years with weight classes before mma or anything...

[Kris P Lettus]

I understand this but even when the weight classes were first formed it took a couple of years for it to get to the point it is at now.. Like silva, who could fight at hw fighting most two weight classes under..

[Reavant]

silva has fought under 170 as well... but thats besides the point. Guys were doing it the second they formed the weight classes. I dont know what your talking about.

every time they introduced a weight class, guys started cutting their ass off trying to make it.

Sherk fought at 170 in the ufc and the second they made 155 he was there his next fight.

[Kris P Lettus]

Sherk is a tiny dude though.. He need the advantage were as Silva and GSP both are big for their respective divisions and are not challenged by those in the smaller weight classes, hense why they should be in the larger weight class..

Sherk also fought at 170 after fighting at 155 btw..

[Reavant]

:nono:

Shirk is HUGE for the 155 class are you kidding? especially when he was on the roids and your driving me nuts by your complete lack of being able to actually read what Im writing... since UFC added 155, he has NOT EVER gone back up to 170. Other orgs had the lighter class before the ufc and thats where he fought at that weight.

You also apparently missed the fact that silva has fought under 170... in fact his fight before coming into the ufc was at 169. So how can you even say that his "natural weight" is 205?


GSP and Silva are dominant because of their styles. GSP I would say is more dominant because he is so well rounded that its almost impossible for someone to outscore him. Hes incredibly balanced and puts guys into a chess match where he quickly gains complete control.

Silva probably benefits most from his reach, but hes incredibly accurate and can see everything before it comes. Id say his division is weaker. He also built up such a mystique in his fighting because of the spectacular ways he has won, that I truly believe that fighters give him way more respect than he deserves in the cage and they pay for it on top of a lot of the fighters at 185 not either possessing the style or toughness to defeat a counterstriker of his callibur. Sonnen was able to capitalize on him because he was tough enough to take shots coming in and hit him before silva could land good counter strikes.

[Super V]

I love how almost every discussion in this forum turns into someone trying to convert Kris P Lettus from having his own opinion.

[The Mask]

i'd like to see silva fight more at 205 since 185 is a pretty weak division all said and done. 170 is a tough division though, guys like bj penn and matt hughes and even koscheck etc are all good.

[Krimzon7]

Actually I don't wanna see Silva move up until he loses two fights. There is no need for such a big and somewhat bankable fish to get lost in the ocean of LHW. GSP is great, like reav said, he's a thinking man's fighter, who puts you on your heels mentally, then puts you on your ass physically.

But he's beatable...I'm just not sure who could do it.

[Kris P Lettus]

I love how almost every discussion in this forum turns into someone trying to convert Kris P Lettus from having his own opinion.

Pretty much..

[The Mask]

silva loses 2 fights? fucking hell. that could take 10 years :'( i'd much rather he fought cool LHW fighters who i'd actually heard of rather than random ok middleweight fighter who beat another ok middleweight fighter for a title shot.

[Kris P Lettus]

The competition would be so much better for him at 205.. Love to see him against guys like Bones or Rampage..

[IC Champion]

Rampage is like twice the size of Silva.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Pretty much..

Your opinions are based 100 per cent on your biases. You are not at all objective. Thus, you drive most of us nuts.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Tho I have been a dick to you and for that I aporrogize :(

[IC Champion]

Give Krispy a break guys, he's still not over the Saints losing to the only sub .500 team in NFL playoff history.

[Kris P Lettus]

Rampage is like twice the size of Silva.

Forrest Griffin is bigger than Rampage..

:-\??

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Griffin and Rampage are about the same size I think.

[IC Champion]

Rampage had a way better chin and much more punching power than Forrest, and seems like the bigger of the two.

[The Mask]

rampage would get killed by silva.

[Kris P Lettus]

Griffin is 6'4".. Rampage is 6'1", same as Silva..

[Kris P Lettus]

Actually, I just checked and Silva is listed at 6'2" while Jackson is listed at 6'1"..

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Actually, I just checked and Silva is listed at 6'2" while Jackson is listed at 6'1"..

Their height has nothing to do with their frame. SEE: Tamden the barncat Mccrory.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Either way, both GSP and Anderson Silva often times fight guys either the same size or bigger than them. So Kris P, your points are kind of well.... pointless.

[Kris P Lettus]

I think you are arguing just for the sake of arguing.. Fact is they both dominate their respective divisions and cut a good amount of weight to get there.. So my common sense thinking, when asked the question of what to do to make 170 and 185 more competitive, is to get the two guys who dominate said divisions and move them up, which both could do by not cutting as much weight..

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You're insinuating that they're "too big" for their divisions. They are not. If GSP went up to 185, I would be psyched, and would think it wud be a very exciting prospect. BUT he would be a greatly undersized 185. Compare him to Nate Marquardt or Chael Sonnen, both guys dwarf him.

[Reavant]

forrest is much bigger than rampage, rampage is much more compact and powerful

[IC Champion]

You're insinuating that they're "too big" for their divisions. They are not. If GSP went up to 185, I would be psyched, and would think it wud be a very exciting prospect. BUT he would be a greatly undersized 185. Compare him to Nate Marquardt or Chael Sonnen, both guys dwarf him.

But he's 185.... Krispy doesn't get it, GSP isn't even that big for 170, Hardy, Anthony Johnson and Alves all come down from over 200lbs. He doesn't seem to get that just moving up without proper preparation would be a disadvangtage to GSP and Silva as they would routinely fight guys who outweigh them by 10-20 pounds on fight night.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah I dont understand how he doesn't get that Marquardt is like 220 pounds and so is Sonnen and pretty much every 185er. LIKE FUCK, listen to facts you n00b. Jesus christ.

[IC Champion]

I guess he figures since he can make 185, then he should be fighting at 185.

[Kris P Lettus]

This is ridiculous.. Silva could easily make hw.. GSP was just as big if not bigger than Alves..

You guys are taking this all way too seriously..

[IC Champion]

Nate Marquart can easily make HW, whats your point?

[Reavant]

BJ Penn can easily make light heavyweight whats your point???

[Kris P Lettus]

My point is GSP and Silva are easily the best 170 and 185ers in world right now.. They could both easily make a higher weight class were they wouldn't dominate, making their fights and the fights in their former divisions better..

Also, I think you guys are making way to big of a deal about size difference.. Fuck sake hw has a 59 lbs swing..

I don't see why my answer to the original question is this big of a deal.. Welter and middleweight aren't bad divisions but their champs are dominant.. The way to fix this is those champs moving up to fight stouter competition..

Not that far fetched..

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

You make good points in that post, but you didn't come off saying that in the first place.

And the swing at heavyweight is a little different, because when a 240 pounder fights a 280 pounder, they both have advantages and disadvantages. The 280 pounder is bigger and stronger, and will have more power, but biology has it as such that his cardio no matter how hard he trains cannot stack up to the 240 pounder, and by midway through the second most of the time he'll be gassed (unless he is an absolute freak).

Whereas 170s and 185ers have pretty similar cardio, the disperity isn't as much, and the power and strength advantage is still there.

But this post you made is much better and I now see where you are coming from.

[The Show Off]

Georges St. Pierre, Anderson Silva, and Jose Aldo are all simply superior in their respective divisions.

The diffrerence is GSP's division is jam packed with great fighters.

Middleweight has historically been the weakest division in MMA try to name another "great" middleweight after Anderson Silva and Rich Franklin? If you said Dan Henderson realize that Hendo was the type of fighter that always wanted to fight the best he could to test himself that's why he perfered to fight at 205 where their were great fighters.

Aldo is in a division that is now starting to fill up with quality fighters but it is still relitivly young. Featherweight and bantamweight have suffered in the past from not being in the UFC. Fighters that should have been fighting at 135 and 145 moved all the way up to 155 so they could make real money.

Nothing against Aldo or Anderson, they're both great fighters but their divisions are simply not on the level of welterweight.

[Next Big Thing]

Middleweight has historically been the weakest division in MMA try to name another "great" middleweight after Anderson Silva and Rich Franklin?

Sakuraba. Ignore the past few years because the dude is way past his prime, but he was the original Gracie Killer and historically has some of the best take down skills in MMA. In my opinion in his prime he would beat Franklin, Silva I'm not so sure about.

If GSP loses to Shields do you guys think that would alter the perception of GSP's accomplishments or even the quality of his level of competition?

[Reavant]

Sakuraba. Ignore the past few years because the dude is way past his prime, but he was the original Gracie Killer and historically has some of the best take down skills in MMA. In my opinion in his prime he would beat Franklin, Silva I'm not so sure about.

If GSP loses to Shields do you guys think that would alter the perception of GSP's accomplishments or even the quality of his level of competition?

middleweight in pride was actually close to 205

[The Show Off]

Sakuraba. Ignore the past few years because the dude is way past his prime, but he was the original Gracie Killer and historically has some of the best take down skills in MMA. In my opinion in his prime he would beat Franklin, Silva I'm not so sure about.

If GSP loses to Shields do you guys think that would alter the perception of GSP's accomplishments or even the quality of his level of competition?

True Sakuraba was great but he fought out side of his weight class a lot kinda like my reasoning behind not having Hendo as a middleweight great. But yeah The Gracie Hunter did slip my mind.

[The Show Off]

middleweight in pride was actually close to 205

I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. In PRIDE Hendo was the only Welterweight Champion (183lbs) and he never defended the championship. I mean they had some good fighters but nowhere near the level of fighters as Wanderlei, Shogun, Rampage, Arona, Little Nog, Overeem, Belfort, and Randleman. The PRIDE Welterweight division (183lbs) had who? Hendo, Bustamante, and Anderson Silva when he was still driffting between 170 and 185.

Unless in case you mean that Middleweight was actually close to 205 in the sense that the PRIDE Middleweight limit was 205lbs. If that is the case then disregard the above statement.

[Reavant]

yea pride middle weight is 205 or a couple pounds less

[Krimzon7]

Statement Disregarded.

I wish I could care more about this thread, but seriously, GSP is awesome. And so is Silva. We(socially) just can't stand to see somebody 'win' for too long, before we are ready to see them fall flat on their asses

[Kris P Lettus]

I like both of them and don't want to see them fail, I just want to see better championship fights..

E.g. Maia/Silva