Who would you say is MMA's 'elite'?

[Rammsteinmad]

I've heard the expression before about wrestlings 'elite', that are in a league of their own and can be counted on one hand etc, people like Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, Ric Flair and Shawn Michaels.

I think I have a pretty good idea, but would rather hear it from some of the more experienced MMA fans.

[IC Champion]

Who's Hulk Hogan?

[Kris P Lettus]

I'd say Randy Couture and Chuck Liddell for sure..

[Funky Fly]

Trouble with MMA is that it's not fixed (lol Mark Coleman), so today's elite fighter is tomorrow's old news.

A good example of this is Brock Lesnar. He has a record of 7 wins and all of 2 losses (one of which was a bullshit ref mistake), but people are already writing him off as no longer being a contender. His last fight was a title defence. Granted, he got worked badly and definitely really needs to work on his stand up, but he's still a top guy.

All that said, I would go with people who have displayed longevity and varied wins as being elite. Guys like:

Anderson Silva
Georges St. Pierre
Chuck Liddell
Randy Couture
Fedor Emelianenko (on the list despite record padding with freak fights)
Cro Cop
Big Nog
Rampage
BJ Penn

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Fedor Emelianennnnnnnnnnnnnko

[IC Champion]

It doesn't matter if Fedor padded his record in recent years or not, his body of work still speaks for itself, no other HW in MMA is close to touching his resume.

[Funky Fly]

It doesn't matter if Fedor padded his record in recent years or not, his body of work still speaks for itself, no other HW in MMA is close to touching his resume.

That's why I left him on the list. As for "the other thing", it was a standing up/point deduction instead of a warning for a shot that Mir turned in to and completely changed the nature of the fight. Not knocking Mir, just horrible reffing.

[Reavant]

you have to wait for the sport to get older and the guys to actually be retired a while. Its extremely easy for a fighter, especially in a sport with not a lot of history, to do things that hurt their legacy either in the pursuits of money or pride.

An example would be Ken Shamrock, who is someone who either never should have left in the first place, or never came back after they left. Every time he steps in the cage, he hurts his name more and more. Liddel was on track to do this and if Dana would have let him, he would have.

You have to wait for the sport to develop even more before you can properly answer this question.

[Reavant]

Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, Ric Flair and Shawn Michaels.



I mean, how long was wrestling around before these names came to be what they are?

[Next Big Thing]

What do you guys think about Frank Shamrock being included in that class of elite guys?

I also believe Tito should be included. Whether you like him or not he was the foundation of the UFC in the fledgling years and had a great run as LHW champion.

[Reavant]

Eh frank did good things way back before mma was popular and retired then came back to be extremely mediocre. compared to guys like liddel, couture and gsp, he has done nothing.

Tito is another guy that hurts himself every time he steps in the cage

[Next Big Thing]

That's what kind of sucks about MMA... Guys stick around way too long and tarnish their legacies, but at the same time, they've dedicated so much time and effort into fighting that it's not like they can retire and get a regular 9 to 5... especially the guys who fought in the early days.

Matt Hughes is another guy who I think should be considered elite even though his past few fights may not show it.

Where would you put a guy like Rich Franklin? Would you guys say he's at the very least one of the most elitre middleweights?

[Kris P Lettus]

I used to be a huge Franklin fan.. Still am but it seems after the second silva loss he fell off the face of the earth.. So glad he is making his comeback..

[Bad Company]

Dan Severn?

[Krimzon7]

Bas Rutten.

End of discussion

End of thread.

[Kris P Lettus]

Fucking love El Guapo..

[Icess]

I really wish Nick was in the big leagues after tonight.

Both that he gets his ass kicked, or he actually really proves himself.

Kinda wish Herschel was 10/20 years younger.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Nick wouldn't get his ass kicked in the ufc, but he'd get out wrestled probably.

[Icess]

Perhaps...

He will never get away from his gameplan, which can completely be picked apart. 10 wins in a row is still something.

[IC Champion]

I'm sure it is, but you always have to consider the level of comepetion he's done it against.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Noone in the welterweight division is horribly outstriking him, and noone is going to have better jiu jitsu than him, the only thing anyone is going to have on him, is top control and wrestling.

[IC Champion]

Cyborg was getting the better of the stand up in the fight with Diaz until he began to tire and got tapped. And in the UFC WW division everyone had wrestling and good top control. He probably wouldn't even beat Diego Sanchez.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Cyborg was getting the better of the stand up in the fight with Diaz until he began to tire and got tapped. And in the UFC WW division everyone had wrestling and good top control. He probably wouldn't even beat Diego Sanchez.

Nick was in control of the standup for much of the fight. He had a hard time with the leg kicks, but Nick was definitely dealing with him, and was in firm control.

Also, as I said, that doesn't equate to having your ass kicked... it means you lose the decision but not your ass kicked. Nick could hold his own with ANYONE in that devision. Would actually like to see him fight Thiago Alves.

[IC Champion]

It's hard to say when Diaz hasn't fought a ranked oppanent in 4 years since Gomi. If he fights Daley then he will be fighting someone in the top 10 in WW, but it's someone who plays into Diaz' game. He might not get his ass kicked, though GSP would destory him. He would still get controlled and beat up for three rounds by the likes of Fitch, Kos, and Sanchez.

Also, I think Alves could take Diaz, Alves has brutal kick boxing, and would eat Diaz alive with leg kicks. Diaz found himself beinf outstruck and beat up on his feet by Cyborg at times, and Alves has a much better game overall then Cyborg does and better stand up, IMO.

Even a win over Daley won't be that impressive as it's someone who should easily beat, since Daley is very vulnerable to submissions.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think Alves's stand up game is over rated. He didn't impress me much against John Howard, who is someone I think Nick Diaz would have finished.

If Alves went for takedowns, then it's a complete toss up.

[IC Champion]

I think Alves would eventually catch Diaz and knock him out, to TKO him. Alves used to cut a ton of weight, and have trouble making weight and how much that affected his perfomances in the past I don't know, but apparently for his last fight he was on a diet and made weight easily, and it showed in his perfomance.

[Reavant]

Bas Rutten.

End of discussion

End of thread.

ugh.... dont get me wrong I love him too, but if he were not an announcer or made those funny videos he wouldnt even be an after thought.

He fought over 90% of his fights in pancrase in the 90s which the legitimacy of the results are in serious question (many times the fights were worked in some way or another) He fought twice in the ufc and was injured and never fought again until 06 where he leg kicked a fat 900 lb slob to oblivion.

Dont get me wrong, hes tough but in no way does his combat resume add up to what guys like wanderlei, liddel, gsp and anderson are building themselves

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think Alves would eventually catch Diaz and knock him out, to TKO him. Alves used to cut a ton of weight, and have trouble making weight and how much that affected his perfomances in the past I don't know, but apparently for his last fight he was on a diet and made weight easily, and it showed in his perfomance.

I'm sorry dude, you are vastly over rating his stand up. He couldn't knock out John Howard, which was his last fight... how's he knocking out Nick Diaz? Come the fuck on.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

PS. Nick Diaz's striking is much better than John Howard's. He fucking outstruck KJ Noons who's a god damned pro boxer.

[The Mask]

yeah i love bas but having watched his title fight against randleman i don't think he would have even won it if they scored mma in the same way they do today. really shady decision.

anyway i am gonna think about this and come back with the best list ever.

[Next Big Thing]

Do you guys think the Ruffo brothers (Tapout kids) are going to run shit when they hit 18 or will they burn out/ get injured before they hit the big time?

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There are more demos of them, but this was the shortest.

[Kris P Lettus]

Those kids are pretty sick but there's no way to tell what they'll do when they get older..

[Reavant]

id guess they burn out but they could just as easily kill everyone when theyre older

[MoFo]

Wanderlei and Rampage, mainly for teh PRIDE stuff.

[Krimzon7]

ugh.... dont get me wrong I love him too, but if he were not an announcer or made those funny videos he wouldnt even be an after thought.

He fought over 90% of his fights in pancrase in the 90s which the legitimacy of the results are in serious question (many times the fights were worked in some way or another) He fought twice in the ufc and was injured and never fought again until 06 where he leg kicked a fat 900 lb slob to oblivion.

Dont get me wrong, hes tough but in no way does his combat resume add up to what guys like wanderlei, liddel, gsp and anderson are building themselves

I understand where you're coming from, but whether the total results that all of his results are worked...he legit knocked motherfuckers out with OPEN PALM STRIKES!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

that's pretty goddamn impressive. As for the portion of Bas that is known now, I rebut...People know John Madden for his video game and those tinactin commercials. But he got those gigs for being a bad ass Superbowl winning coach. His expertise in one area helps him excel in the other.

[Reavant]

umm... you can generate the same amount of power with open palm strikes



you also have to think guys were paid to take dives as well

[Reavant]

and yea madden was known before his time as an announcer... if anything the announcing showed how crazy he was.

Bas only has the announcing going for him. Had he never been an announcer, he would be thought of as a good fighter but one of the good fighters back when the shit wasnt popular.