The Bigshow Thread

[BigDaddyCool]

Lets talk about good old Paul Wight. He seems like a good guy for the most part. How would you rank him? Is he a draw? Is he good? Any thoughts?

I just saw his new DVD, a Giant's World on netflix. Being that I remember a lot of what happened, I can sort through a lot of the crap they feed us about how awesome he is. They keep trying to make him sound like Andre, but better better in every way. Now I will admit Bigshow is more athletic than Andre, I do not believe Bigshow is a more of a draw (respective for their time). I recall back in the attitude era, when Bigshow was WWF Champion, ratings took a dip. I'm not saying he isn't a good guy to have around and is always a credible no build threat. But he never really struck me as someone that should constantly be in the mainevent.

[Lara Emily]

The guy hasn't been relevant since his feud with Brock Lesnar in 2002. He's a glorified jobber to the stars who gets wins at the most inappropriate times

[Nightwing]

Andre for that time was something special. I enjoy Show, but hes lacking something. Of course theyve booked him like shit the majority of his tenure there, so that helps.

[screech]

He has the benefit of going from not relevant to credible threat almost instantly because of his size (and athleticism). Because of this, a loss to him doesn't really hurt the opponent but it does make that final win a bit better I think.

[screech]

I don't see him as a huge draw (certainly not Andre levels), but I do tune in to see him because I've always been a fan.

[Rock Bottom]

Good question. Wight is a guy that can deliver when it's called for. I think ultimately you're right when you say he shouldn't consistently be in the main event. But having said that I think he's a guy that refreshes himself. There always seems to be a time where it's pretty decent for Big Show to step up. But it also depends on his opponent.

Lesnar and Show for example, the superplex off the top thing, that's pretty epic. You need a giant to do those sorts of things. Show isn't going to fit well with every wrestler but he's usually fresh enough to add even more credibility to the new hosses in town and every now and then, I think the fans really dig him. I give him a pretty high rank overall, he's very talented.

[MoFo]

I rly dont like him.

Totally agreed w/ Lara Emily.

Slow paced, boring, immobile guy.

[Rock Bottom]

He has the benefit of going from not relevant to credible threat almost instantly because of his size (and athleticism). Because of this, a loss to him doesn't really hurt the opponent but it does make that final win a bit better I think.

I agree with you here, that's why I think he's pretty good to have around. Also if there is a complete vacuum of direction, a guy like Show doesn't need a push to take a first class leap into the main event or even carry the title.

He's also just as effective as a face or a heel in this regard.

If every heel OR face had an injury, died, quit, or what have you, it wouldn't really blow many peoples' minds if a guy like Show came out and won a Royal Rumble, or just started no-sell destroying guys. Doesn't need a build up to establish being huge.

Ultimately all Show and an opponent need to do to make it clear that Show is the guy with the ball or not is vary the degrees in which they sell each other's moves. It's a nice little meter to have handy. I think the guy is underestimated by most and overestimated by a handful.

[Rock Bottom]

The guy hasn't been relevant since his feud with Brock Lesnar in 2002. He's a glorified jobber to the stars who gets wins at the most inappropriate times

I wasn't always a fan of how they used him personally. Maybe it's me being out of touch but I don't think about jobbers when I think about Big Show.

Career Highlights: ECW World Champion, WWE Champion, WCW Champion, World Tag Team Champion, WWE Hardcore Champion, United States Champion, Unified WWE Tag Team Champion -WWE.com

Not sure that's everything but it's enough to make a point.

[Seth82]

He was used alot better in WCW

[BigDaddyCool]

I rly dont like him.

Totally agreed w/ Lara Emily.

Slow paced, boring, immobile guy.

I've seen less mobile and slower paced guys at half his size.

His promos are always kind of boring.

[thedamndest]

I like him but not the way he's usually booked. He's a guy that has no problem selling and adds a lot of little mannerisms to his work. He's better as a character when he goes on monster runs, though the WWE has a tendency to build him up only to have someone knock him down and then start him all over again as either a face or heel. Part of that is fine. The point of having a giant is to have someone slay him. But not all the time. And not so many turns.

His ECW title run was good, Jerishow was good, and the angle with Floyd Mayweather was good for more recent Big Show memories.

[Jeritron]

The guy hasn't been relevant since his feud with Brock Lesnar in 2002. He's a glorified jobber to the stars who gets wins at the most inappropriate times

I suppose this has nothing to do with him being booked stronger than Wade Barrett right now.

Either way, I can't see how anything he did in 2002 was more relevant than his ECW title run, Jerishow, his feuds with Cena and Taker, or the major Wrestlemania angle with Flloyd Mayweather.

[XL]

Not a fan of happy, go-lucky Show but I get why they do it. You can't have a guy his size being a nasty, angry bulldozer all of the time. That said, given his size advantage, you'd think he'd be in the Title scene more (from a kayfabe perspective).

I think it's harsh to criticise his first WWE Title run. He was fueding against the Big Boss Man after all.

[Jeritron]

He never lived up to the expectation to be Andre, because there already was an Andre. People had seen Andre, so why should he be expected to get just as over on the same esteem 30 years later?
The whole point of the 8th Wonder of the World spectacle was that it was something you hadn't seen.

Now, a 7 foot giant is always going to be a spectacle, and Big Show is, but there was no way people were going to be in awe of him like Andre.
Especially in the 90s and beyond, where people are far more jaded and can see more of everything.
It was a different case when Andre The Giant was making the rounds like a sideshow attraction.

[BigDaddyCool]

There is also the fact that since Andre's day 7 foot wrestlers have become far more common. Sure Bigshow is the tallest guy over 400 pounds right now. But with Undertaker, Kane, Matt Morgan, Kahli, Nash, Batista, Lesnar, and so on, Bigshow just doesn't seem as Big.

[Lara Emily]

I wasn't always a fan of how they used him personally. Maybe it's me being out of touch but I don't think about jobbers when I think about Big Show.

Career Highlights: ECW World Champion, WWE Champion, WCW Champion, World Tag Team Champion, WWE Hardcore Champion, United States Champion, Unified WWE Tag Team Champion -WWE.com

Not sure that's everything but it's enough to make a point.

He's a glorified jobber to the stars now. He's been fucking nothing since 02, used only really to eventually elevate someone else, when he does go over big it's usually at stupid times (Ie destroying SeS)

Sad thing is the guy has talent, both in ring and mic work but he gets no time to do either, so he's just boring as fuck

BTW jobber to the Stars is a guy who jobs to the Main Event guys but still beats lower end guys.

[MoFo]

It is the booking of him I guess.

He is often put in boring feuds with other large wrestlers, meaning the matches suck the life out of you and drag.

Hes best used in these 'David v Goliath' scenarios, I quite like him in that role. Him v Rey, Mayweather, Punk and other smaller wrestlers have been good, just doesnt happen often enough.

[Lara Emily]

I suppose this has nothing to do with him being booked stronger than Wade Barrett right now.

Either way, I can't see how anything he did in 2002 was more relevant than his ECW title run, Jerishow, his feuds with Cena and Taker, or the major Wrestlemania angle with Flloyd Mayweather.


Jerishow was a tag team, he also was part of Showmiz we totally know how important tag teams are in the grand scheme of things, his ECW title reign was the start of the downfall of ECWE that culminated at Decemberto Dismember, Floyd Mayweather angle was awesome (mostly because of Floyd Mayweather) but was exactly 2 months and was a glorified sideshow rather then say a legit wrestling thing and to boot he lost (which was fantastic). I don't even remember his feud with Taker TBH

Any of his Main Event angles have all been to essentially give the champ a legit threat (based on size) so that when they beat Show they supposedly look awesome. Hence Jobber to the Stars

[Lara Emily]

It is the booking of him I guess.

He is often put in boring feuds with other large wrestlers, meaning the matches suck the life out of you and drag.

Hes best used in these 'David v Goliath' scenarios, I quite like him in that role. Him v Rey, Mayweather, Punk and other smaller wrestlers have been good, just doesnt happen often enough.

His feud with Punk sucked, he just kept beating Punk over and over again

[Jeritron]

Jerishow was a tag team, he also was part of Showmiz we totally know how important tag teams are in the grand scheme of things, his ECW title reign was the start of the downfall of ECWE that culminated at Decemberto Dismember, Floyd Mayweather angle was awesome (mostly because of Floyd Mayweather) but was exactly 2 months and was a glorified sideshow rather then say a legit wrestling thing and to boot he lost (which was fantastic). I don't even remember his feud with Taker TBH

Any of his Main Event angles have all been to essentially give the champ a legit threat (based on size) so that when they beat Show they supposedly look awesome. Hence Jobber to the Stars

Those are all interesting appraisals of the situations, but the bottom line is that they were relevant angles or accomplishments.
His place on the card and the hierarchy of the WWE is what it is. Again, it's something that really isn't for you and me to decide. He's irrelevant and dismissed as a "jobber" to the stars, why? Because he never comes out as THE top guy of the promotion.

Do you consider Jericho to be an irrelevant jobber to the stars, and when he wins it's innappropriate?
How about CM Punk?

Once again, I'm afraid you are letting your personal taste get in the way of reality.

[Jeritron]

His feud with Punk sucked, he just kept beating Punk over and over again

That CM Punk. Just an irrelevant jobber to the stars.

When Big Show is winning, it sucks and is dismissable. But when he's not he's just a jobber.

When CM Punk is doing the same, it's flipped. Because he's a heel that we all like and the same rules don't apply to him.

[Jeritron]

This sounds a lot like how Piper is an invaluable, irreplacable piece of Hulkamania, and Hulk was completely interchangable.

Or similar to how Snooki is an irrelevant celebrity because you said so. Granted you googled it (the day before) and found that only a few irrelevant sources cared. Like TMZ. They are completley irrelevant, to you.

It's almost as good as the time all of The Rock's promos were comedic genius, and Cena's were just poopy jokes and kindergarten humor.
And, in their rivalry, The Rock was 100% in the clear of anything John Cena alleged or sullied his name with.

The thing is, we share the same taste for the most part. I enjoy the same wrestlers you hold on a pedestal, and dislike the same ones you seem to. But I don't understand why that has to dictate the way you view things so much.

[Lara Emily]

Would it have been better if I said he's been a glorified midcarder since 2002? Instead of irrelevant?

Fact is the guy hasn't had a World title run since 02 hasn't been a major Main Event Player for ages, he's just kind of always there.

BTW both Punk and Jericho have won or successfully defended world titles at Major PPVs in the past 2 years (Punk at Summerslam 09 Jericho at Mania 26), last time Show did that hmmmmm 2002

Hell Big Show hasn't even competed for a world title in a one on one match (from the research I've done, maybe I've missed one but don't think so) again since 02

Do you get what I mean by jobber to the stars? He's been essentially booked to lose any major feud he's been involved in since basically 2002

[Lara Emily]

That CM Punk. Just an irrelevant jobber to the stars.

When Big Show is winning, it sucks and is dismissable. But when he's not he's just a jobber.

When CM Punk is doing the same, it's flipped. Because he's a heel that we all like and the same rules don't apply to him.

No Big Show has done his duty, CM Punk is and was a rising star, he should have beaten Show, that's the point. Big Show is not a star, CM Punk and SeS getting annihilated by him time and time again was awful.

[BigDaddyCool]

No Big Show has done his duty, CM Punk is and was a rising star, he should have beaten Show, that's the point. Big Show is not a star, CM Punk and SeS getting annihilated by him time and time again was awful.

I didn't see it, and I don't really like Punk. But on paper, it doesn't make sense for Punk and SeS to get annihilated by Bigshow time and time again. It would make sense for Show to be able to beat one of them at will, but as a unit they should have gone over in the end to elevate Punk.

[Jeritron]

Would it have been better if I said he's been a glorified midcarder since 2002? Instead of irrelevant?

Fact is the guy hasn't had a World title run since 02 hasn't been a major Main Event Player for ages, he's just kind of always there.

BTW both Punk and Jericho have won or successfully defended world titles at Major PPVs in the past 2 years (Punk at Summerslam 09 Jericho at Mania 26), last time Show did that hmmmmm 2002

Hell Big Show hasn't even competed for a world title in a one on one match (from the research I've done, maybe I've missed one but don't think so) again since 02

Do you get what I mean by jobber to the stars? He's been essentially booked to lose any major feud he's been involved in since basically 2002

Except for the ones he wins. Those are innappropriate.

World title or not, he holds a similar place on the card to a number of relevant wrestlers. Including CM Punk and Jericho.
Because of their world title wins, they're not the same? As cowardly heels in WWE, they win the title in a design to put the Cenas and Undertakers over and make them look good.
The same shit you are labeling Big Show as doing.

People label Kane a jobber to the stars too. Well, he is in and out of major programs and he eventually won another world title.
It's a stupid term. It just means they are a main event player who isn't the top guy in the company (Cena, Orton, HHH, Taker)

By that same logic, Piper was a jobber to the stars. The ultimate. And Shawn Michaels during the entire length of his second run.

Hell, The Rock never had a definitive title win at Wrestlemania, or a cornerstone reign. He must be one too. His title wins were all "designed" to revert back to HHH and Austin and make them look good.

[Jeritron]

CM Punk is and was a rising star.... Big Show is not a star

See. Here you go again. Is this a gimmick?

[Jeritron]

I honestly don't think I can provide any better evidence for the basis of my entire argument of you being blindly biased as that. All wrapped up and under the tree.

[Lara Emily]

Except for the ones he wins. Those are innappropriate.

World title or not, he holds a similar place on the card to a number of relevant wrestlers. Including CM Punk and Jericho.
Because of their world title wins, they're not the same? As cowardly heels in WWE, they win the title in a design to put the Cenas and Undertakers over and make them look good.
The same shit you are labeling Big Show as doing.

People label Kane a jobber to the stars too. Well, he is in and out of major programs and he eventually won another world title.
It's a stupid term. It just means they are a main event player who isn't the top guy in the company (Cena, Orton, HHH, Taker)

By that same logic, Piper was a jobber to the stars. The ultimate. And Shawn Michaels during the entire length of his second run.

Hell, The Rock never had a definitive title win at Wrestlemania, or a cornerstone reign. He must be one too. His title wins were all "designed" to revert back to HHH and Austin and make them look good.

LOL I like your attempt with The Rock (7 world titles makes up for the Mania jobs)

Again Big Show hasn't had a one on one title match in 9 years, 9 years! The guy should be used to put over rising stars, use his size to make a for one of the young guys that much more impressive, that doesn't happen, he jobs in the Main Event (jobber to the stars, which he does whether he's heel or face) but then beats guys like Punk (over and over again). Fact is though he's not a key guy anymore. He's a guy they throw into the main event when they have no one else.

Tell me what Feuds has he won in the past few years.

[Jeritron]

I dunno. I'm not going on Wikipedia for this shit, but it doesn't matter. Who cares what feuds he won? Has nothing to do with his status in the company.

You just complained about him beating Punk (and I'm sure Barrett) for starters. So there you go.
But what's the harm if they go on to win those feuds ultimately? Then he's a jobber? Sounds like there's no winning.


He's a star. And he holds a high rank on the card. Just as high as Punk and Jericho, really. I don't know why that is so hard to see.

The term jobber to the stars is a stupid one.

[BigDaddyCool]

I think jobber to the stars in a decent title for Bigshow and Kane.

[Jeritron]

Just remembered Big Show's feud last summer with new champion Jack Swagger. Does that count as him jobbing to the stars? Or does it count towards him putting over rising stars?
Probably neither.

I'll let you decide.

[screech]

I liked that feud.

[Lara Emily]

I'll clue you in, CM Punk and SeS, that's it from what I can see. P

I didn't fucking call him a jobber a called him a glorified jobber to the stars, it's hyperbole for the fact that he doesn't win shit anymore. His role in the company is to give the Main Event guys someone to beat whenever they need someone, he's never a real threat to any maineventer. So that's why it's annoying when he goes over guys like Punk because it doesn't do shit for Punk and doesn't do anything for Show because all he is gonna do at most is job to the world champion down the road.

[Lara Emily]

Just remembered Big Show's feud last summer with new champion Jack Swagger. Does that count as him jobbing to the stars? Or does it count towards him putting over rising stars?
Probably neither.

I'll let you decide.

Him jobbing to Swagger would be indication of how to use Show properly.

[Jeritron]

It should also be noted, that in addition to that world title feud (which included 1 on 1 matches at PPVs, so I don't know what you're talking about with this 9 years shit), he has also been involved in a number of main event angles.
Just because the world title wasn't involved doesn't mean they weren't. Discounting the Mayweather stuff I referenced.

The Jerishow/DX feud was the main event of Raw for a while, despite the lack of a world title.
His feud with Undertaker was the main event over on Smackdown for a long time. No world title, but plenty of PPV matches and SD's main, no less.

[Lara Emily]

And he lost 90% of the time.

You still aren't understanding what jobber to the stars means.

[Jeritron]

I'll clue you in, CM Punk and SeS, that's it from what I can see. P

I didn't fucking call him a jobber a called him a glorified jobber to the stars, it's hyperbole for the fact that he doesn't win shit anymore. His role in the company is to give the Main Event guys someone to beat whenever they need someone, he's never a real threat to any maineventer. So that's why it's annoying when he goes over guys like Punk because it doesn't do shit for Punk and doesn't do anything for Show because all he is gonna do at most is job to the world champion down the road.

Yea, I know what you called him. And I think it's a stupid term, and not one that really makes a lot of sense.
If you boil it down, it just means you're not the top guy. It has absolutely no bearing on how relevant your presence is, or how appropriate it is for you to win. That's exactly what was implied in your original post:

The guy hasn't been relevant since his feud with Brock Lesnar in 2002. He's a glorified jobber to the stars who gets wins at the most inappropriate times

Highly untrue.


I also think that this jobber of the stars nonsense can be said about a number of highly acclaimed talents, now and in the past. Punk being one of them.

And then there was the whole matter of saying Big Show is not a star. And CM Punk is.
And all of that pick and choose biased stuff.

I enjoy Punk's work far more than Big Show's over the past few years but come on.
Big Show is still Big Show.

[dingdongyo]

i like big show, and he's lasted way longer in wrestling than the other wrestlers who were as big as him. i think it's because he gets used as a vehicle for others so much that i forget about him.

i think he does fantastic with his characters, but the base for all of them is "the giant guy". it gets stale. it would have gotten stale with andre and gonzalez if they were healthy enough to last as long as show has.

i didn't see him when he was thinner and younger in wcw. could he move better before he ballooned up so he could be billed at 500lbs?

[Jeritron]

I also don't think being in a world title match/feud at Wrestlemania 25 should be completley thrown out in this discussion. Regardless of whether or not it was a triple threat, or if he lost.

That is relevant.

[Jordan]

Laura Emily ruined this thread

[Lara Emily]

Each to their own. Big Show just seems like he's there to me, never more then that. He hasn't been a legit world title threat in ages and him squashing SeS was awful. So whatever you think he's cool and important, that's cool, I disagree and yeah you're right part of this has everything to do with the fact that I'm legit concerned he's gonna go over Barrett at Mania and if you don't think going from feuding with John Cena to jobbing to Big Show is a major major step down for a guy who was probably one of the best heels (and most over) of 2010 then I don't know what to say.

Maybe I should have said glorified Mid carder rather then jobber to the stars

[Jeritron]

Again. I never said a word about him being cool. I said he has been a part of relevant things in the pantheon of WWE. The fact that you even think that is up for debate is troubling, but you came firing out of the gates (first post) with claims about his status as performer, simply based on your own opinions about his work.

And when did I say anything about Barrett or him going down a notch? You "don't know what to say" on the matter of me "not thinking that" because I never said a fucking word about that and it was never on the table. Another wonderful red herring and assumption of what my opinons are.

And it's not about opinions at all. Never was. This isn't about what I think. Jesus lord where did you come from?

[Jeritron]

The fact/opinion thing and thinking everything is correlated to taste is out of control. I don't think there's any hope left tbh

[Tazz Dan]

Laura Emily ruined this thread

[Jeritron]

Also, I don't want you to think that I'm feuding with you in every thread. I just get frustrated.

How do you expect any of us to participate in and respect your arguments when theres no common ground of logic, and they appear to be rampant with double standards and bias?

I've tried to tell you this a million times, but not every argument launched is a question what people think and enjoy.
Because I recognize Big Show has, contrary to your claims, been relelvant and a star in WWE, it means I think he's cool. Yea that's the crux of my argument...

And somehow, because I've disagreed with you in general, I don't recognize that Barrett feuding with John Cena on Raw and then Big Show on Smackdown is a step down.
You don't know what to say...

Alright. And it probably means I like Big Show more or just as much as Jericho and CM Punk because I pointed out that they too are "jobbers to the stars" as you put it.

[Tazz Dan]

I'm not the biggest Big Show fan, but I don't see what the issue is with him. I haven't read this whole thing because Lara Emily and Jeritron kinda ruined it for me, but I like how he's been handled recently. Loved his tag team runs with The Miz and Jericho. Dunno, IMO he just seems to fit in.

[Lara Emily]

Again. I never said a word about him being cool. I said he has been a part of relevant things in the pantheon of WWE. The fact that you even think that is up for debate is troubling, but you came firing out of the gates (first post) with claims about his status as performer, simply based on your own opinions about his work.

And when did I say anything about Barrett or him going down a notch? You "don't know what to say" on the matter of me "not thinking that" because I never said a fucking word about that and it was never on the table. Another wonderful red herring and assumption of what my opinons are.

And it's not about opinions at all. Never was. This isn't about what I think. Jesus lord where did you come from?

I never said you were talking about Barrett, I never put words in your mouth wtf. I was talking about Barrett and me saying "and if you don't think" is a fucking figure of speech.

Anyway this has absolutely derailed.

I'll finish with this Show was amazing as The Giant and way more mobile and entertaining in WCW. He has never really ever been used right in WWE (he should have never been anything but a legit Main eventer) and now it's too late.

[Jeritron]

Can't stand that Big Show

[XCaliber]

Always found Show is the more charastic giant whereas Andre was more intimidating despite what I've heard about him behind the scenes.

[Jordan]

It's weird how when Big Show went to WWE he was "green" and pushed down to OVW, which was weird cause he has some good stuff in WCW. Maybe it's just they way they booked him, but he had a few memorable matches there.