Weight cuts and all that

[Jura]

I just read an article on GSP about how he cut his weight to 170 for the weigh-in but he will be about 192 lbs when he steps in the octagon to fight Shields so can anyone tell me what's the deal with this weight stuff? What I'm asking is, what's the point of weighing-in at a certain weight if you're not going to actually stay at that weight when you fight?

[Jura]

Here's the article btw: The secrets behind GSP’s weight-cutting (and gaining) success (http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewriter/post/The-secrets-behind-GSP-8217-s-weight-cutting-su?urn=mma-wp1628)

[MoFo]

I think the estimated weights are heavily exaggerated.

Like its 3500 calories to every lb of body fat, right, and that says GSP will put on 22lbs in 1-2 days (from weigh in to fight night)

So GSP would be eating 77,000 calories to get that amount of mass? In 2 days? Or have I got this horribly wrong?

[Ben Rodrigues]

Water weight.

[The Mask]

yeah it's more dehydration and shit like that. plus they weigh in on an empty stomach, so it's more just like water + food weight added on, which can be a lot if you don't have much of either in your system.

and people do it for a strength advantage.

[Reavant]

I think the estimated weights are heavily exaggerated.

Like its 3500 calories to every lb of body fat, right, and that says GSP will put on 22lbs in 1-2 days (from weigh in to fight night)

So GSP would be eating 77,000 calories to get that amount of mass? In 2 days? Or have I got this horribly wrong?

:nono:

[El Capitano Gatisto]

They dehydrate themselves so badly before the weigh in that their piss comes out a brown syrup. It gives a size advantage but it takes away from their endurance. Dehydration is the biggest physical limiting factor in athletic performance. You can see that some guys can't cope with it very well.

[Krimzon7]

Brown Syrupy piss.


Going to waffle house.

[Krimzon7]

okay to actually add something to the conversation:

Yeah, It appears to be mainly a western hemisphere(read: american) thing. Fools fight a weight class below what they way for the strength advantage


Except Rumble Johnson who appears to be able to cut to 170 and enters the cage a night later at 215

[The Naitch]

I just read an article on GSP about how he cut his weight to 170 for the weigh-in but he will be about 192 lbs when he steps in the octagon to fight Shields so can anyone tell me what's the deal with this weight stuff? What I'm asking is, what's the point of weighing-in at a certain weight if you're not going to actually stay at that weight when you fight?

It means that technically when all the excess weight is stripped, they are technically a "welterweight" because they do weigh in at 170 pounds.

But GSP walks around day to day at 192, so even though he is a welterweight, he really isn't, so he has that edge compared to a guy that walks around at 170 (who could cut down to 155 if needed. ie BJ Penn). GSP would be a heavy welterweight.

Maybe GSP should stop being a pussy and fight at middleweight or LW. Expand his horizons. Big fish in a small pond syndrome. Don't know why he chose to be a welterweight. Maybe the competition is weaker at welterweight. George could handle the competition in welterweight, but he could struggle at middleweight. Seems like GSP is just trying to protect his legacy now. He's comfortable.

As far as legacy is concerned: Silva > GSP

[IC Champion]

Maybe it's because Welterweight is his natural weight class. And god knows Anderson Silva has never been in a boring fight, or isn't large for his weight class....

[The Mask]

welterweight is no less competetive than middleweight tbh.

[IC Champion]

I would actually say that welterweight in the more talented class, maybe...

[The Mask]

probably is, although i get the feeling if anderson silva retired tomorrow there would be a lot more fighters suddenly competing at middleweight.

[Krimzon7]

probably is, although i get the feeling if anderson silva retired tomorrow there would be a lot more fighters suddenly competing at middleweight.

absolutely.

[Next Big Thing]

Doesn't Anthony Johnson cut from 225 to get to 170? I feel like there's something not right about that.

I'd never call a guy who fights for a living a coward, but isn't it kind of chicken shit that he cuts down that much just so he can have a weight and size advantage? Especially when you look at his body type. Dude is just as big if not bigger than guys like Machida and Evans, but he cuts all the way down to 170.

[Reavant]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a guy cutting that much to get to a weight class so long as he doesn't hurt his health doing it.

How is it kind of chicken shit to put your body through absolute hell in order to get yourself to a weight class to give yourself a possible competitive advantage?

[Reavant]

That's like discrediting anyone for cutting weight at all. Brock is chicken shit for not fighting at sper heavyweight and cutting 20lbs to make heavyweight.

[The Mask]

i think with fighters that cut that heavily anyway they suffer for it come fight night usually.

[Reavant]

that is true more often than not

[Next Big Thing]

That's like discrediting anyone for cutting weight at all. Brock is chicken shit for not fighting at sper heavyweight and cutting 20lbs to make heavyweight.

The UFC doesn't have a Super Heavyweight division for Brock to cut down from so he doesn't have much of a choice. Also, there's a difference between cutting 20 or even 30 pounds for a fight and cutting 55 pounds.

I'm not criticizing fighters who cut at all. You can look at the body type of a Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, etc... and say it's plausible for them to cut down to weights they fight at.

Anthony Johnson has a body type that could allow him to fight at 185 or even 205 and do well. Why does he put his body through such hell? Can't be because he loves the guys in the 170 pound division that much.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I highly doubt he swings 55 lbs. between weigh-in and fight. I am almost certain he means that is the weight he must drop when he starts training.

[Reavant]

The UFC doesn't have a Super Heavyweight division for Brock to cut down from so he doesn't have much of a choice. Also, there's a difference between cutting 20 or even 30 pounds for a fight and cutting 55 pounds.

I'm not criticizing fighters who cut at all. You can look at the body type of a Jon Jones, Anderson Silva, etc... and say it's plausible for them to cut down to weights they fight at.

Anthony Johnson has a body type that could allow him to fight at 185 or even 205 and do well. Why does he put his body through such hell? Can't be because he loves the guys in the 170 pound division that much.

because hed supposedly have such a strength and size advantage that he should dominate. The guys at 185 are more his size and more than half the guys at 205 are much bigger than him.

[Next Big Thing]

While we're on the subject, does anyone know how the "Polley Plunge" from The Ultimate Fighter works? It was basically green alcohol and epson salt in hot water if I remember correctly. Does it just make you sweat so much that you lose water weight or is there more to it?

[Krimzon7]

While we're on the subject, does anyone know how the "Polley Plunge" from The Ultimate Fighter works? It was basically green alcohol and epson salt in hot water if I remember correctly. Does it just make you sweat so much that you lose water weight or is there more to it?


i was wondering the same thing

[HeartBreakMan2k]

It basically just clogs your pores up and causes you to sweat like crazy.

[Krimzon7]

You do realize that sweat comes OUT of your pores? that seems like an oxy moronic process if that's the case.

[Reavant]

yea ive never heard of it so i dont know what it does but i am 99% sure clogging pores is not it

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I would guess that the main way it works is by the combination of heat with a sweat-suit, nothing to do with smothering chemicals over your body.

[Reavant]

wait is it like a bath you sit in or something you drink?

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Not really sure, I searched it on the internet there and it sounded like they rubbed something on their body, sat in a very hot bath with Epsom salts then wore some kind of suit that keeps the heat in and covered themselves in blankets.

Sweating is down to heat, can't see any good reason why the other stuff would do anything, so I would guess it's the hot-bath/insulation combo. Using a sauna sweat suit just means the heat can't escape from your body so you keep sweating.

[The Mask]

The weight cut

The coaches headed over to the TUF house to help Ryan with his cut. For guys who are not used to cutting, it can be a difficult process. Plus, we considered – with him being in a house full of competitors – we couldn't be sure if Ryan would get all the help he needed.

He lost four pounds in about 40 minutes. We used a little trick I use to lose the last few pounds. Running kills your legs, and saunas can get unhealthy fast. The bath is not the easiest route either, but we can say it is the least worst of the above options.

Essentially you are lying and relaxing and losing weight. Junior and I were talking about weight cutting and his thoughts on getting down to the 205-pound weight class.

Our strength and conditioning coach sat around saying that Ryan wouldn't lose weight this way – just basically hating on the process. He had never done it, and yet he hated it. They were only watching and hated it.

Even after he lost four pounds in 40 minutes, they hated it.

"The Polley Plunge"

Part 1

4-6 bottles of Green Rubbing Alcohol
3-4 bags of Epson salt
Add water as HOT as you can handle
Cover your body in Abolene
Soak for 20-30 minutes

Part 2

Immediately put on sauna suit and sweats
Put on beanie
Lie on the floor under a blanket for 15-20 minutes

from http://mmajunkie.com/news/23213/team-dos-santos-blog-lew-polley-on-the-ultimate-fighter-13-episode-no-3.mma

[The Mask]

Before your workout, liberally apply Albolene Makeup Remover to your trouble spots. Work out using sweat-producing exercises for at least 30 minutes; continue this process for five days (for some sample exercises to help you "punch up" your workout, click here).

Albolene acts as a blanket on the skin, causing heat to be trapped, allowing you to sweat more and burn inches quickly in these trouble areas. After five days of working out, take your measurements again to see...and feel the difference. Email us your results so that we can share your success story with our site visitors!

apparently

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Albolene sounds like Vaseline. I know cold water swimmers use types of grease to try to insulate themselves but I'm not really sure I buy it.

Yeah in fact logic tells me rubbing any oil-based product on your skin would probably hinder sweating.

[Reavant]

i can see sitting in a bath of salt because it may pull water out of your body by diffusion/osmosis but i dunno about the rest

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Your skin is fairly impermeable to water and ions, osmosis is not a factor. Otherwise you'd be swelling up and deflating when you jumped in or out of any kind of water.

[The Mask]

My guys usually don't have any problems because I have them eating pretty clean. They eat carbohydrates like yams, brown rice, small red-skinned potatoes and oatmeal. The bodybuilding lifestyle is all based on that, but I try to take it to another level.

For example, the biggest trick I teach, which is a trade secret within bodybuilding, is before a contest (to make weight) or show, have your fighter sit in a hot bath - the hottest water they can handle - with approximately one gallon of Epsom Salt and five to eight bottles of Winter Green rubbing alcohol, (which is pored on the body).

They lay in there and it sucks out all the subcutaneous water, while allowing the body to retain its intramuscular water. For bodybuilding purposes, if you sit in that for 30 to 45 minutes, pad dry it off, and go straight to sleep. When you wake up in the morning you will be shredded.


gonna have to look up subcutaneous and see if it means what i imagine it means

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Subcutaneous basically means in the bottom layer of your skin, salt will not draw fluid out from there. I'm not sure how people get these ideas. Your sweat pores are lined with cells which tightly regulate how much fluid you lose in response to your core temperature, using the blood as a heat-exchange system with air.

The whole point of your skin is to make it much easier for your body to regulate how much fluid you keep in your system. This is why the biggest problem for people suffering serious burns over a large area of their body is dehydration. Without the skin the fluid just leaves the body and people often die from dehydration and electrolyte loss because they have lost large parts of the skin's regulation of fluid balance.

[The Mask]

maybe just having a jolly hot bath does the trick.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Yes.

I'm not sure why they bother anyway, fighting dehydrated is an enormous disadvantage, probably moreso than having extra weight is an advantage. The coach in our boxing gym has the guys drinking hardly anything when they're training, I try to tell him they'd work better and harder if they were properly hydrated and actually make better physical gains, but it's so ingrained in the fighting ethos to limit fluids that it falls on deaf ears.

[Krimzon7]

Holy fuck I just learned a lot.