For The Haters: What's it gonna take for you guy to like this shit?

[Jordan]

So I got a problem right now which is that for me, TPWW is actually making me like wrestling less, because of all the constant negativity. For me there were several years recently where I really didn't care for WWE or any other company all that much, still come to TPWW and watched when I wanted but the product was lacking. This was during the forced years of Cena and JBL, which were pretty terrible at the time (I thought). Perhaps it wasn't the product entirely but I was just into different shit, I dunno.

The mark of change for me was in the latest Randy Orton/John Cena feud which culminated in a highly creative and sick Iron Man Match. That feud I feel was like a lighting bolt of electricity to WWE and started the natural rise of both those superstars. Natural meaning, finally the fans saw these guys as the top two in the company instead of being told "These are the top two guys in the company, boo/cheer accordingly".

Ever since that feud Cena and Orton have both brought it big time when it comes to PPV matches and promo's. Sure Cena isn't loved by most wrestling insiders because we know he (like The Truth said) is a product of WWE marketing. People wanna hate Cena, but hell he's doing great with what he's given (which is the WWE Universe) and you cannot fault him for how he is booked, as he is a talent not a creative member. If you do fault Cena for how his is booked then you are a Smart Mark which is a paradox and cancels out any type of enjoyment you might find from WWE.

What I don't get is why aren't there threads on TPWW about how fuckin good WWE is right now? We have the biggest characters since the Attitude boom or maybe even the late 80's, we have probably one of the most talented and potential filled rosters in WWE history, as well as some real originality happening which is what everyone bitched about for so many years.

WWE is doing exactly what I want them to do, they are expanding internationally into Mexico and bringing Lucha to the USA, they are pushing wrestlers based on talent and potential instead of their body size, and they are thinking outside of the box to ensure that each PPV is different than the last. I feel like this years PPV's have all been special and all been very well done. Probably one of the best years so far for PPV's in a long long time.

The deal is some of you guys need to relax a little with the hate. Look, you hate Michael Cole because WWE has told you to, and they mind trick you into thinking that he is the biggest annoying jackass ever, because that's how they book him! It's all a work, it's all on purpose and it's all in good fun. Michael Cole in real life is not the guy we get on screen. I find it ridiculous that a lot of you guys cannot make the connection that when you get on here and chat about how annoying Cole is, WWE has worked you over! They won! But you talk about it as if it were Cole's decisions as a human man not a character, which is where you become a paradoxical smart mark.

The same can be said about the hate for anybody. WWE knows that fans of the business (us, the people who like the behind the scenes gossip, the wrestling dorks) are gonna hate their leader, their Hogan, their Cena, but you know what, they know that you are still gonna watch! So they don't care, by pushing Cena they are keeping you glued to the tube just as much as a little kid spoutin Hustle! Loyalty! Respect! on the playground before he gives a little girl a black eye trying to five knuckle shuffle her bitch ass on the sea saw.

I've been unusually aggressive on here lately because my patience has grown this with all the haterade spewing about. And you know what, I really don't dislike anyone here, I just want you guys to try and relax and enjoy the product, become apart of it instead of dissecting it and arm chair booking and getting emotionally invested in what you WANT to happen instead of getting emotionally invested in what COULD happen. Wrestling is something extremely simple and we tend to make more out of it than it is. If you want to dissect something try a book or a museum, wrestling is fairly basic and not to be taken too seriously.

I don't expect what I've written to change everybody, I just hope that maybe someone could read this and open their eyes a little bit on how to enjoy wrestling. Most of us started as kids, and it was more fun then right? So when you watch wrestling use it as an excuse to chill out and be a kid for a few hours, it's tons more fun that way.

To make a discussion here, for those who are unhappy with the product (any product) feel free to post here what changes would make you happy. Or maybe discuss what you do like about the product right now and see if that helps you realize how good it is at the moment.

For me some of the positives are...

+ The Ring Work
My god hasn't it improved vastly? It seems like the guys are actually going for something in matches now and doing research from the library to improve and use what works to get the fans excited. A great example is Randy Orton who I feel learned a shit ton from CM Punk and now he is a ring general. His matches with Christian are some of the best in years and it wasn't only Christian who brought the skills to the table.

Alberto Del Rio brings a realistic energy that makes him quite dangerous and a viable contender to take out Cena, or even a monster like Kane and Big Show.

Punk obviously is WWE's new X-Pac and is bringing the skill level of anyone he works with to new heights.

Sheamus is one of the best bruisers to come along since Brock Lesnar and reminds me in some ways of a young Scott Hall (even aside from the finish).

Christian is one of those HBK types now who can have a great match with anyone and adapt his style and moves to a weaker opponents move set to make them awesome, see Mark Henry.

Sin Cara and Rey Mysterio are two of the most exciting wrestlers I have ever seen and I love the Spanish influence in WWE right now, these two guys are fucking money for WWE, and fucking awesome for the Universe to enjoy.

Cole brings something to WWE we haven't had since Bobby Heenan was blowing up, of course Cole is much different but he is filling that spot which has been vacant for years and eventually Cole is gonna bring big money and big pops for a lot of wrestlers.


-Negatives
WWE has a great mid card division right now on Raw and Smackdown and still I'd like them to have a big more focus, and to do that I want more focus on the mid card titles.

Tag Teams, this speaks for itself. WWE needs to gimmick tag teams onces again and they will see how much money is in two bad ass guys with matching outfits and cool tandem moves. We need a Road Warriors type team to light it up. I really want Kidd and DH Smith to get back together, as well as Ted and Cody.

Okay so in closing, sorry for being a dickhead to some of you guys lately but I've been watching JCW a lot so I've picked up swearing too much :$

[DAMN iNATOR]

I'll hate who I want to hate in WWE and like who I want to like. Fuck off.

[CSL]

contemplating whilst writing this whether or not to read that. Because that's a giant hairy porker of a first post

[ron the dial]

what's it gonna take for you to not worry about how other people feel about something you clearly take very seriously?

[Jordan]

Read the post cocksucker and you'll see.

[Jordan]

Read the post good sir and you'll see.

:wave:

[DAMN iNATOR]

what's it gonna take for you to not worry about how other people feel about something you clearly take very seriously?

Exactly. I have a cousin 1 year and 3 months (approx) older than me and he watches the product and cheers the faces and boos the heels. I'm the opposite. Sure we exchange banter from time to time but it's all in good fun and joking. I don't let what he says about guys like Miz and Rock and Truth, etc. etc. bother me and he doesn't let what I say about guys like Rey and Cena bother him. And that's how it should be. And last night's RAW crowd was a great, great example of that to other future crowds of live WWE shows.

[Jordan]

Exactly. I have a cousin 1 year and 3 months (approx) older than me and he watches the product and cheers the faces and boos the heels. I'm the opposite. Sure we exchange banter from time to time but it's all in good fun and joking. I don't let what he says about guys like Miz and Rock and Truth, etc. etc. bother me and he doesn't let what I say about guys like Rey and Cena bother him. And that's how it should be. And last night's RAW crowd was a great, great example of that to other future crowds of live WWE shows.

Well maybe this post wasn't directed at you then. I'm talking about people who constantly complain about what WWE puts out. They are more concerned with their ideal fantasy booking than looking forward to what surprise WWE has in store. Sure when your an adult it might be hard be be surprised by a formulaic wrestling program, but if you try to get excited for the build (which for the past year has been there) then your likley to have a more enjoyable time than hoping that WWE does what you'd do if you were booker.

[CSL]

You aren't really saying anything new here. "People will always bitch and moan about the product because most/a lot of internet wrestling fans are fickle as fuck" is pretty much the shortest way of putting it. This isn't ever going to change. Cena could be fired, Punk could hold the top strap for a year and Eddie Guerrero could rise from the dead and there would still be complaints from "that variety" of wrestling fan. And then 10 years down the line, they'd still be complaining about the product of that era whilst reminiscing about 'how great it was 10 years ago'. It's a never-ending circle, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Jordan]

I feel ya, there is little to be done. I wrote this because I honestly want everyone to enjoy it as much as I have been. I think it's fucking great right now.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

You could always leave if it's that bad. I've stopped watching, bar the odd segment where people say there's a great match. Or R-Truth segment.

[Lock Jaw]

I just want you guys to try and relax and enjoy the product, become apart of it instead of dissecting it and arm chair booking and getting emotionally invested in what you WANT to happen instead of getting emotionally invested in what COULD happen. Wrestling is something extremely simple and we tend to make more out of it than it is. If you want to dissect something try a book or a museum, wrestling is fairly basic and not to be taken too seriously.

Thing is, that this is an internet community. There would be nothing if we did not constantly discuss "could be"s, "should be"s, "wants", and "wishes", and so forth.

If the IWC was nothing but people saying "That was good" and not looking deeper into it, there would be no community. There would be no forums.

We are all still fans of various degrees.

When I watch, I do sit back and relax. Enjoy the product without taking it too seriously. But then I come online to think about it, talk, and discuss matters.

[Jordan]

You could always leave if it's that bad. I've stopped watching, bar the odd segment where people say there's a great match. Or R-Truth segment.

I've been posting here since like 1997 or some shit, TPWW and porn are my internet addictions, I don't see me leaving anytime soon.

And yeah that's always the easy answere "you don't like it, quit watching" or whatever... But you know I think I'd rather fight than roll over.

[ron the dial]

fight that good fight

[Jordan]

Thing is, that this is an internet community. There would be nothing if we did not constantly discuss "could be"s, "should be"s, and so forth.

If the IWC was nothing but people saying "That was good" and not looking deeper into it, there would be no community. There would be no forums.

We are all still fans.

When I watch, I do sit back and relax. Enjoy the product without taking it too seriously. But then I come online to think about it, talk, and discuss matters.

I totally agree with you, totally. I think that some posters here however do not enjoy wrestling and yet they still watch it, and then come and complain.

I watch wrestling with my brother, and sometime's I feel like he doesn't even enjoy it because he hates almost everything WWE does, all their choices, the guys they push, and he basically only likes Punk and Truth, who are fucking awesome yes, but there is other shit too. Not everything can been that good all the time, because those guys are cutting edge.

I have found a way to respect Cena and enjoy his place in the Universe, and I really wish other people could too because they would be able to enjoy WWE much more, seeing as he is such a huge part of it.

[Lock Jaw]

I think it is generally accepted around here that we all respect Cena.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

It does constantly baffle me how people hate things but keep watching though. I'd pretty much been wrestling-free since 2004 bar the brief window TNA was good and One Night Stand 2006 followed by some giving WWECW a chance. Then nothing until Nexus and once that fizzled out, there's nothing really interesting for me now.

Life's too short to watch 4-7 hours of something just to jump on the Internet and bitch. Way more fun/productive things to do.

[Jordan]

It does constantly baffle me how people hate things but keep watching though. I'd pretty much been wrestling-free since 2004 bar the brief window TNA was good and One Night Stand 2006 followed by some giving WWECW a chance. Then nothing until Nexus and once that fizzled out, there's nothing really interesting for me now.

Life's too short to watch 4-7 hours of something just to jump on the Internet and bitch. Way more fun/productive things to do.

Out of curiosity, does MMA fill the void when wrestling doesn't cut it?

[CSL]

I think it is generally accepted around here that we all respect Cena.

I dunno. You can quite often accurately predict what a pretty big chunk of the response to a show is going to be in the discussion threads based on the outcome of his matches/main events. Cena wins, especially against a "darling" = bad show for the most part, Cena jobs = good show for the most part. But as I said, it's not worth worrying about. Muties gon mute. It's not everybody, there's enough "good" people here.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Nah, not a fan of MMA really at all, bar the Dreamcast and susbsequent X360/PS3 games.

[Lock Jaw]

I said we respected Cena, that doesn't necessarily mean we enjoy the way he is booked.

[Jordan]

I dunno. You can quite often accurately predict what a pretty big chunk of the response to a show is going to be in the discussion threads based on the outcome of his matches/main events. Cena wins, especially against a "darling" = bad show for the most part, Cena jobs = good show for the most part. But as I said, it's not worth worrying about. Muties gon mute. It's not everybody, there's enough "good" people here.

This is the paradoxical wrestling fan. They are smart to the way the business works but a mark for only certain "chosen" products, a popular is obviously CM Punk. CM Punk is by far one of the best WWE has, but come on guys when does he have a match you don't see him as clear as day call move by move to his opponent.

That reason alone is why I'd put Christian's matches with Orton far above Punk's.

Still though, I got much love for Punk, especially when he is pushed.

Didn't mean to rant about Punk but it happened.

Back to Cena. These fans are choosing what to mark for an what to dissect before they even watch it. They won't allow themselves to enjoy a Cena classic because they've turned off the ability too. Besides, it's obviously "cooler" to hate Cena than like him. I just respect him, and enjoy a good amount of his matches. Except with Sheamus, I really didn't like those, I don't want to see them wrestle ever again.

I've just turned off that critical part of my head when I watch wrestling lately. Although if WWE or TNA or whomever does something that insults my intelligence I will snap out of my kayfabe viewer mode and become a critic. That's kinda where I start to hold the product accountable. If it insults my intelligence or embarrasses me then I usually have some venom that's gonna spew on TPWW the next day.

[CSL]

I said we respected Cena, that doesn't necessarily mean we enjoy the way he is booked.

He's booked pretty much the same way every other #1 babyface/draw/merch shifter has been booked for the last 25 years. His few legitimate shortcomings are far outweighed by the some of the ridiculous stuff people come out with relating to him.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Well maybe this post wasn't directed at you then. I'm talking about people who constantly complain about what WWE puts out. They are more concerned with their ideal fantasy booking than looking forward to what surprise WWE has in store. Sure when your an adult it might be hard be be surprised by a formulaic wrestling program, but if you try to get excited for the build (which for the past year has been there) then your likley to have a more enjoyable time than hoping that WWE does what you'd do if you were booker.

Maybe it was, though (LOL) now that I read that. I think I see what you're driving at now...like as in anyone who's ever gotten mad at something happening in a storyline (i.e. Christian losing the belt) and waiting objectively like (or something like) a kid on his birthday or Christmas, where you wait to see what you'll get. Am I in the right general area of what you're trying to say now?

[Jordan]

Yeah I'm saying if you watch like a kid, you won't be disappointed like if you were watching for something in particular to happen like Christian turning heel and taking the title from Orton. A lot of people thought and wanted that to be the result from the last PPV Over The Limit. But what did WWE do? Had a great match, and then a huge show of respect after. Which to me was a much cooler and unpredictable end. The heel turn may come in time, but now it has more history behind it, for Christain to turn heel it's gonna be special.

I stopped liking wrestling a few years ago cause I was too smart for it. Now that I watch from a different mind set, I actually have the same excitement I did when I was a kid, especially when it's really good.

[MoFo]

I don't see much bitching on here, wtf.

[parkmania]

Cena: Cheer the man, boo the character.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Cena: Cheer the man, boo the character.

Yeah, they've got to quit dressing him in those fucking flamboyant-ass colors. The bright reds and oranges and purple aren't eye-pleasing, they are an EYE SORE! Of course now that I say that, they'll probably get worse, starting with some nasty "true blue" color trash -> then bright yellow -> then hot pink...hey wait a second, I might have something there. We should totally try to get Cena to wear pink because then we could all call him gay, which has NEVER been done before and then that way everybody wins and nobody gets their feelings hurt.[/dumbass "fan" of WWE who knows nothing about the product]

[Rock Bottom]

john cena sux and is a full of shit bitch

john cena is gay

john cena thinks ppl are supposed to care that he 'loves the business'

he funny lol

john cena mad cuz he is < the rock

john cena isthe gay 1 u watch out b hind urself 4

[BigDaddyCool]

When your mom gives me blow jobs for a week straight.

[#1-norm-fan]

Sheamus and Jack Swagger were world champions. Sheamus is now a forced main eventer who's not even remotely seen by anyone as on the same level as Orton and if you missed Swagger reign and I told you NOW that he was a former world champion, you'd think I was fucking insane.

Character development is worse right now than it has ever been in the history of wrestling. I guess that's my main problem that incompasses all my other tiny problems. So... the company learning how to book a character would be "what is takes". I don't exactly hate the product though. Probably because I'm used to it. And currently, Smackdown is pretty good while Raw over the last couple weeks is looking up.

[CSL]

They know how to book a character, there's just such a high turnover of talent that a lot of guys don't really get a chance to make a mark/show that 'something'. That's probably not going to change until TNA 'steps up'/there's a viable rival

[#1-norm-fan]

How is the turnover of talent any higher now than it has been in the past?

[CSL]

Well now specifically because of NXT, the increased overseas tours and interest in guys from outside the US but I was mainly referring to since WCW and ECW closed/2001, since when the window to impress has gradually become smaller and smaller.

[#1-norm-fan]

NXT is WWE's idea to make new stars. It's just another show for guys who already have contracts and for one to (ideally) be the next big star. Obviously doesn't work like that. That has nothing to do with turnover though.

And it sounds like you're just giving reasons why new guys are coming in. Which, while it does push some guys out, isn't really a detriment to WWE. WWE is making the decision to bring in tons of new guys and fire tons of others as opposed to working with some of the guys they have and giving them 6 or 7 years to firmly become the next HHH, Taker, Austin, etc.

It's not like WWE is being given the unfortunate situation of guys not having the chance. They can decide who is and isn't given the chance. They decided Sheamus and Swagger should have a chance. And neither is better off now than they were before they held world titles a couple years ago. There is NO reason that should be the case. It's insane.

[CSL]

1. Of course NXT has a potential effect on turnover. If somebody really doesn't impress on NXT or there are no apparent redeeming features to the office, they aren't going to hesitate to release that person without bringing them back up onto TV when it's time for the next round of cuts. And that's a factor that didn't exist before NXT.

2. I didn't claim this wasn't WWE's own doing. You said they don't know how to book a character. Which simply isn't true.

[#1-norm-fan]

It is true.

I realize that was a terribly simplistic response. I don't really know how else to retort to "It's not true" though...

I gave examples of Sheamus and Swagger. Those were the two more glaring examples because they were world champions. And I don't see how anyone in their right mind can claim those two have been booked well in their career. They were pushed to a world title in a scramble to create new stars quickly because of the years wasted NOT being able to create new stars. And now they're in the same boat all this time later. AWFUL character development.

It takes a long time to develop a character to be looked at as an Taker or a HHH or HBK. Giving them a world title ASAP and then watching them float around aimlessly downward after losing it is no way to get on that road.

[Jordan]

WWF Fan, you gotta realize though that there are no territories, so they talents that most of us generally accept and respect came up at the end of that era, or at least in the 90's where there were several strong Indie companies to hone your skills years before WWE was an option.

WWE uses NXT, Swagger and Sheamu's title run and Wade Barrett's Cena feud as a new concept. It's a way for the audience to become familiar with a superstar that has a lot of potential. Then WWE takes away the spotlight and makes them fight their way back to the top. If they can do it, then they have paid their dues and are ready to lead the company, if they can't they are let go.

Obviously Anderson and Kaval are two big examples of guys that didn't have what it takes to make it in WWE. The jury is still out on Swagger and Barrett but I think Sheamus has done the job well and is on his way back up.

So while this might piss a lot of fans off, at least it gets fans interested in a guy for his potential meteoric rise to the top.

WWE is forced into a corner when it comes to developing talent because there is nobody in the world that is capable of developing a big money draw other than WWE. I kinda wrote this topic because of some stuff you said WWF Fan, no offense or anything. I just want to you to like it more and open your eyes a little to the good stuff.

I forgot to mention R-Truth who is fucking hilarious and creative as hell. This guy should have you watching wrestling every Monday just to see what the hell he says next, he's brilliant.

I do see that you've made a point about not creating characters but I defy that theory with a short list of names. Miz, Alberto Del Rio, R-Truth, CM Punk, Randy Orton, Christian, Sin Cara, Rey Mysterio, and Alex Riley.

How do you not qualify those as brilliant bright characters that are easy for people to connect to? In the case of Swagger, they just gave him a rub like I said above and now it's up to him to get over now, without the big brother big push. Not everybody can be a main eventer at one time and they have to spread their career out for years so just take it easy with Swagger and Sheamus and you'll see their story develop over time when it is organic and natural, not forced. It's now up to them to make a character.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

More guys slugging bitches.

[CSL]

Sheamus and Swagger haven't developed into full time topliners because WWE have chosen that to be the case, not because they tried and failed with them. In the same way they choose to give certain guys 5 minutes to impress them as opposed to keeping them around and letting them grow. If they wanted to put the time and effort into making those guys bona fide stars, I have no doubt that they could and would do it. But they've clearly decided, for now at least for whatever reason, that that's not going to be the case for the 2 of them. And maybe rightly so, what they're doing now could and should serve as building blocks for these guys towards being 'the top guys' down the road after fleshing out their characters and making their way 'back up' although I'd say Sheamus is pretty much there, it'd only take a few weeks of 'favourable' booking creative wise for him to be a 'legit threat' (not seen him outside of his DBD match since he went to Smackdown so he might even be that now) The fact you listed Taker, Trips and HBK clearly means they know what to do and how to do it when they choose to.

[dronepool]

I find myself wanting to be more productive and a little less anti-social so I'm sorta losing interest in WWE, I'd still watch RAW for now.. but I rather be elsewhere when watching.

[Asmo]

Frankly, the only show i'm actually enjoying on a week-to-week basis is Tough Enough. It makes for compelling television - Something which has you glued to a storyline, caring about the characters on the show.

I cannot say the same for a Raw or a Smackdown - maybe it's because i end up reading spoilers all the time (In India, we get all WWE programming a week late - so the only options are to either not read spoilers & be a week late, or watch Raw live via stream at 6:30am or later in the week).

I would say smartening up, or actually just reading wrestling news sites & forums has made me wane off watching regular programming, but i still enjoy things that i'm not aware of (like that Santino/Ryder match someone posted in the 100,000 thread / rewatching & enjoying old matches / etc)

[KIRA]

I think it is generally accepted around here that we all respect Cena.


Exactly we respect the man and hate the character (though I could actually argue that said hate is somewhat tongue in cheek these days) we all realize that from all accounts hes generally a pretty cool stand up guy who takes the IWC chiding of him with a smile and a wave.

Just so you know I think a lot of people thought Cole was an obnoxious tool wwwwaaayyy before he became an on screen jerk ass, in fact when he started being an asshole way back on NXT it earned him brownie points in the IWC because he was in large part being himself.

[Steveviscious89]

Here's my honest opinion on the matter even though it probably makes little sense: less people here would complain about WWE if WCW was still around or if TNA was a bigger company. Most of the negativity use to be directed at the other companies and rightfully so because when they screwed up it was usually way worse than anything WWE would do wrong.

[jskinnyg]

Great thread Weapon X... A lot of valid points that turned into a good thread...

Love the fact that even though Christian isn't holding the title, he is helping pave the way for future guys and having great matches at the same time... Totally made Henry look pretty good... I too go for the heels and hat the "John Cena's" of the biz... But that doesn't mean I don't have a shit ton of respect for him and his work ethic...

Again, nice thread...

[CSL]

Yup, top thread Sexy Wexy. I think we should credit him for every thread posted from now on. Even in the tech forum.

[Haze]

In response...

STOP HATING ON MY RIGHT TO HATE THINGS!

[NormanSmiley]

Here's my honest opinion on the matter even though it probably makes little sense: less people here would complain about WWE if WCW was still around or if TNA was a bigger company. Most of the negativity use to be directed at the other companies and rightfully so because when they screwed up it was usually way worse than anything WWE would do wrong.


not to steal X's thunder on this topic but this nails it. with no competition it makes alot of guys angry that they have to take what wwe gives them and that's that.

....and I guess i take a different approach to Cena. at this point in his career should be better st selling. this has less to do with booking than his in ring ability. Cena's storytelling is poor.

and to compare cm punk to xpac is very insulting. CM punk is vastly talented in the ring, out of the ring, on the mic, from a pr standpoint CM punk understands the business. X pac was none of that aside from he could do spots well in the ring

but i think X hit alot of good points. i think its important to be able to analyze the product since we are not the key demographic but some of the shit that is said here is a bitchfest

[Wolfpack423]

I think the product is pretty good right now, with Smackdown being the better show,though there are things I really like on RAW as well. The roster for the most part is one of the most talented there has been in the company's history. Great mid-card with Kofi, Danielson, Legacy, Ziggler, McIntyre, Masters, Ryder, Tatsu etc. and I like Cena holding the title as to me it means something when he holds it. The matches on Smackdown between Orton and Christian have been solid and the storyline is progressing well. Sin Cara and Rey Mysterio are exciting. CM Punk is one of the top heels in wrestling and should be the one pushed.

Some things I want to see change are the Bellas lose the divas title. I would like to see Beth Phoenix, Natalya, A.J. Lee, Eve and Kelly Kelly be the main attractions. Those are the only ones that really know what to do in the ring. You can criticize all you want, but Eve and Kelly Kelly are improving and try new moves every week. Melina can have a good match but more often than not it's a botchfest. I also don't like so much emphasis being placed on Del Rio and Miz as the two top guys for the future. There are other people that could fill that role better but I don't know who. I am not a fan of the Miz-Alex Riley feud. Though it is being executed perfectly, I would have liked Miz to be the face and I don't like either guy personally.

[Jordan]

Why would the Miz be a babyface? Could you really see him taking out CM Punk clean?

I also really like The Bella's, they are hot, there is two of them, and they are good in the ring. I thought the mic work in the Kharma/Bella's segment on Raw was the best diva mic work in Raw history.

[Wolfpack423]

I think Miz could pull off being a face pretty well. Eventually, he will be a face. I would have thought WWE would have turned him already but they're waiting as the crowd is reacting favorably towards Alex Riley at the moment.

As far as the Bellas go, I think they're two of the worst women's wrestlers ever and that was one of the most brutal segments I've ever seen when it comes to the women. I am a big fan of women's wrestling and they have done nothing to impress me. I am not sure if you are being serious though about the Bellas. It seems sarcastic, but I am just saying what I felt about it.

[DLVH84]

I think Miz could pull off being a face pretty well. Eventually, he will be a face. I would have thought WWE would have turned him already but they're waiting as the crowd is reacting favorably towards Alex Riley at the moment.

As far as the Bellas go, I think they're two of the worst women's wrestlers ever and that was one of the most brutal segments I've ever seen when it comes to the women. I am a big fan of women's wrestling and they have done nothing to impress me. I am not sure if you are being serious though about the Bellas. It seems sarcastic, but I am just saying what I felt about it.

I agree with you about the Bellas, man. They've done nothing, but switch each other out.

[CSL]

Which is actually something new (well, was) different and quite inventive as opposed to a lot of the faceless, pointless birds that have rolled in and out in quick succession over the last 10 years.

[Sixx]

I only read the first few lines or something.

If TPWW is making you like wrestling less, stop reading/posting.

[St. Jimmy]

Cena is boring, Orton is fantastic. Too bad Orton is on the show no one watches.

[ron the dial]

i'm so glad that i could provide this thread for all of my adoring wrestling forum followers.

[Jordan]

i'm so glad that i could provide this thread for all of my adoring wrestling forum followers.

:rant:

And to the above, no I truly enjoyed Kharma's from the heart speech and then the Bella's smoothness on the mic, they are very talented and are a great addition to the Diva's roster. Not the best but they are marketable as hell, because, who doesn't wanna fuck twins?

[parkmania]

I'm curious to see what happens when Kharma is ready to return if the Bellas are face at the time.

[XL]

They turn heel in advance of her return? Pretty simple.

In fact, they turn heel which leads to the return of Kharma to make the save.

[XL]

I cannot say the same for a Raw or a Smackdown - maybe it's because i end up reading spoilers all the time (In India, we get all WWE programming a week late - so the only options are to either not read spoilers & be a week late, or watch Raw live via stream at 6:30am or later in the week).
Just a suggestion but maybe you could watch them online shortly after they air?

I watch Raw on a Tuesday, avoid spoilers and watch SmackDown on a Friday. In fact, I watch SmackDown before it even airs in the US. You could do the same y'know.

[Tommy Gunn]

Yeah, torrent that shit yo, I've been doing the same as XL since we got rid of Sky in 2007.