Here's the deal...

[Afterlife]

I've not been very active in this forum for a while, because people seem to be creaming their pants over terrible things, with no ready reasons for doing so. So, I've stepped in to make a few honest points:

1. Alberto Del Rio is adequate in the ring and notably sub-par on the mic. Also, his gimmick is instantly uninteresting.

2. R-Truth does not deserve to be pushed, and his voice is the biggest reason for this. His hamminess and shitty finishers are close behind.

3. Clear masks are retarded.

4. For quite a while, now, TNA has been an overall superior product to that of WWE.

Have at.

[Xero]

1. I can agree with the assessment, really. But he's over, and he makes what he does work well enough. I don't think he should be going into SummerSlam, but they're trying to make him and they're pushing him hard. They could have chosen a lot worse.

2. R Truth is massively over with the crowd. Why doesn't he deserve to be pushed if he's over to a legit extent? I can understand if you just don't like the gimmick (let's face it, it's ridiculous) but to say he doesn't deserve it for any reason isn't really true. Personally, I like it just because I've always loved the insane gimmicks and I find it pretty hilarious. With that said, I'd rather wrestling not be this ridiculous and have a more serious/logical tone. But for what it is, in this climate, I enjoy it. And I absolutely HATED Truth before this, and he's become one of my favorite characters in WWE right now. So they did something right.

3. It's along the lines of D'Lo's chest protector. No problem with it, and it gives decent originality to the disfigured gimmick.

4. So why do you watch WWE, if TNA is so good and WWE is so shit (if TNA marks can make this argument, so can I)? I disagree, because of the writing. I've said it a million times, their roster is arguably superior, it's the ridiculous writing and confusing booking that turns me off. And nothing has changed in that department.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

1. Yet he's still better than most of the roster on both.

2. His gimmick is great right now. He's not bad in the ring either. His finisher is shit though. He should just stick to using the Shotgun/Suplex Stunner move.

3. Yep

4. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA!

[Afterlife]

1. I can agree with the assessment, really. But he's over, and he makes what he does work well enough. I don't think he should be going into SummerSlam, but they're trying to make him and they're pushing him hard. They could have chosen a lot worse.

Is he really over? I know a lot of people jerk him off here, but the crowds don't seem to care very much. Yeah, they've got less talented performers -- but they've got far better, as well.

2. R Truth is massively over with the crowd. Why doesn't he deserve to be pushed if he's over to a legit extent? I can understand if you just don't like the gimmick (let's face it, it's ridiculous) but to say he doesn't deserve it for any reason isn't really true. Personally, I like it just because I've always loved the insane gimmicks and I find it pretty hilarious. With that said, I'd rather wrestling not be this ridiculous and have a more serious/logical tone. But for what it is, in this climate, I enjoy it. And I absolutely HATED Truth before this, and he's become one of my favorite characters in WWE right now. So they did something right.

I don't mind a character that I can believe is mentally or emotionally unhinged. Cody is currently amazing at being devolved. I just don't see Truth as "insane" at all. He just looks like a toddler vying for attention, to me. Mainly, though, I just can't stand his voice. It makes everything mildly disappointing about him exponentially worse. And, while I'm legitimately glad they're trying to make an actual character out of him, the best part of it is he's stopped "rapping". Beyond that, I just don't see what he's done to earn the push.

3. It's along the lines of D'Lo's chest protector. No problem with it, and it gives decent originality to the disfigured gimmick.

I'm not against a mask. I'm against a specifically clear mask. It doesn't make sense.

4. So why do you watch WWE, if TNA is so good and WWE is so shit (if TNA marks can make this argument, so can I)? I disagree, because of the writing. I've said it a million times, their roster is arguably superior, it's the ridiculous writing and confusing booking that turns me off. And nothing has changed in that department.

I didn't say WWE was or is shit. I watch both shows because they're entertaining. But week after week, there are consistantly more things to complain about in WWE than TNA (both major and minor).

[Afterlife]

1. Yet he's still better than most of the roster on both.

1. That's not much of a counterpoint.

2. His gimmick is great right now. He's not bad in the ring either. His finisher is shit though. He should just stick to using the Shotgun/Suplex Stunner move.

That was a good and unique finisher. But why go good and unique, when he can be the third consecutive black guy to use the paydirt/305/play of the day?

3. Yep

:y:

4. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA!

Also not much of a counterpoint. :|

[Testicle]

#1 I can see. His promos are the same thing every week, he was interesting at first but that was awhile ago. He is very solid in the ring.

#2 I can also see. I definitely agree with the point about his finishers, they are reused, repackaged crap that we have seen a million times. His promos are fresh now but will soon grow old.

#3 I guess, but who cares?

#4 is just not true. TNA is nothing but gimmick matches, blade jobs, and 20 minute cluster-fuck promos. They had RVD vs. Joe this week which was entertaining, the other hour and forty-five minutes was nearly unwatchable.

If you honestly think that TNA is better than WWE I don't think there is any helping you Afterlife.

[Afterlife]

It's not to do with "helping" me. I was simply pointing out my opinion, and I don't see how calling TNA "unwatchable" stands up.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

1. To expand, Del Rio does what he needs to do. Considering English isn't his native language, he's doing damn well on the mic. He doesn't come off as intimidated, I can understand him, and it's not bland/mundane. Hell, I'd argue his promos are better than HHH's old grumbling promos. Ring wise, he's learning WWE's style quickly and well, and is great in the ring compared to a lot of other people working that style. His matches tend to be interesting, have good psychology, and have a good flow.

2. As far as TNA goes, I really don't have to offer a counterpoint, because it's obviously not true. Likewise, you've given no evidence or opinion in regards to how it's better. The matches in WWE tend to be better lately, the angles are easily better, and I don't have to put up with Hogan in WWE. While I love some of the talent in TNA, watching TNA gives me a headache.

The difference is, WWE is doing great, and definitely better than it has in the past. It's exceeding my expectations for it. TNA has a ton of talent, and does fuck all with it. They're falling way below my expectations. And the problem is, I can't lower my expectations enough for TNA to meet them, because TNA always seems to find a way to "impress me" with how random and odd it is.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

And even if TNA wasn't generally bad, it's still not at the level WWE has been lately. WWE is in a nice stride right now. I can barely see how TNA is better than WWE in any manner, yet alone overall.

[Nicky Fives]

I disagree with all 4 points, but you have the right to your opinion....

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, I've got to disagree with all four points. Alberto Del Rio is pretty great in the ring, and for a guy who doesn't speak English as his first language, he does fine on the mic. He's a heat machine and he manages to come off as having "it" when he talks. He's completely comfortable.

R-Truth has become a very interesting character to me. His whole "Little Jimmy" thing cracks me up. Yeah, it's all a little over the top -- but heel R-Truth has been infinitely better than babyface stale Truth. He's also made the Paydirt a more believable finisher than either Shelton Benjamin or MVP, in my opinion.

Cody Rhodes' mask is clear, I assume, to create that "can we see his face?" mentality in audiences. They took a clear one and made it murkier, apparently. If they wanted a completely opaque one, they would have gotten one.

SmackDown! blows TNA out of the water by itself...

[Wolfpack423]

I've not been very active in this forum for a while, because people seem to be creaming their pants over terrible things, with no ready reasons for doing so. So, I've stepped in to make a few honest points:

1. Alberto Del Rio is adequate in the ring and notably sub-par on the mic. Also, his gimmick is instantly uninteresting.

2. R-Truth does not deserve to be pushed, and his voice is the biggest reason for this. His hamminess and shitty finishers are close behind.

3. Clear masks are retarded.

4. For quite a while, now, TNA has been an overall superior product to that of WWE.

Have at.

I fully agree with Alberto Del Rio and R-Truth. As far as TNA goes, I have been liking it alot more than WWE the last three months since Lockdown. I am a big fan of Smackdown recently, but RAW hasn't been as enjoyable for me, maybe its because four or my least favorites in Miz, Alex Riley, ADR, and R-Truth are on the show.

[James Steele]

1. Alberto Del Rio is adequate in the ring and notably sub-par on the mic. Also, his gimmick is instantly uninteresting.

While I do agree that Del Rio is insanely overrated, I disagree that his gimmick is "instantly uninteresting". If that is the case, then every cocky heel is instantly uninteresting. Sadly, "cocky heel" is 90% of the heels in WWE & TNA.

2. R-Truth does not deserve to be pushed, and his voice is the biggest reason for this. His hamminess and shitty finishers are close behind.

R-Truth was given the ball, and he has run with it. The whole gimmick is "over-the-top" and that is the point. Would you rather him just smirk and act smug? His has changed his in-ring style enough to make it more credible in the main event (he doesn't do 20 spins before doing a chop), and his promos are supposed to create confusion as the whole gimmick is that he has lost his mind but with a tinge of "Holy shit, he is brilliant because he has everyone thinking he is nuts and they are are looking at his actions over his more serious demeanor and attitude that has gotten him a World title match." What is wrong with his voice? You can understand what he says, he gets the point across, and the "Little Jimmy" thing is getting over.

3. Clear masks are retarded.
I agree, but I assumed it was for effect. This good looking guy is justifying his abhorrent behavior by saying he is hideous despite the fact we can actually see that he looks basically the same. The only announcer who actually claims he is hideous is Michael Cole. *Vintage* Heel Announcer tactic.

4. For quite a while, now, TNA has been an overall superior product to that of WWE.

I watch both, but TNA constantly gives you blue balls or makes you roll your eyes. Hogan and/or Bischoff have been the main focus for over a year. They rebrand and say "Wrestling Matters" and then insult me by hyping RVD/Angle only for it to end in minutes and be a clusterfuck. TNA has so much potential and they do deliver on matches occasionally. Hogan/Sting...again...really? AJ Styles is the personification of TNA. He gets pushed...only to become somebody's lackey...and they have done it over and over with him. TNA's booking has so much potential...then they fuck up the finish or swerve themselves into oblivion (THEY! IS HERE. THEM ARE HERE! Anderson has switched between heel-face-tweener 1000X). Time and time again they bait me in and then rip the hook out of my mouth with stupid jerky booking. WWE has been damn solid and consistent for 2 years now. John Cena has been allowed to do more in the ring, and while the "SuperCena" formula still exists they gave it enough of a break to bring believability into the idea that Cena can lose. They are pushing young stars and the wrestling has been stellar (barring the usual diva matches). WWE has done a better job of pushing new stars than TNA has. The main event/majority of airtime on TNA: Angle, Anderson, RVD, Hogan, Sting, Jeff Hardy, and Morgan for a period of time. TNA is rehashing the Anti-American gimmicks, re-hashing The Horsemen, rehashing 1997, and have completely run Angle/Jarrett, Sting/RVD, and Sting/Anderson into the ground. Now, they are building to Hogan/Sting and have nobody else to the main event. They are doing this Bound for Glory Series that has potential, but so did the TNA Top 10 Power Rankings and that got dropped in a month. Until TNA can learn how to actually finish the majority of their angles with a legitimate conclusion or not string it out 3 times as long as they need to and add more and more participants into it they will not be the same caliber as WWE. TNA has yet to get me even interested in buying a PPV. WWE has had me interested enough to PURCHASE more ppvs in the past 2 years than I have my entire fanship prior. WWE is TRYING new things and trying to push new stars. TNA isn't.

I can see your points and understand them, but my opinion differs from yours.

[Wishbone]

1) Alberto Del Rio is the perfect bad guy for THIS generation of WWE. With WWE trying for a younger crowd you need clear cut bad and good guys. Del Rio fits the bill of the evil nemesis pretty well he's rich, suave, has the looks, and is believable as a top contender. Is he perfect? Hell no but no one is even the great Austin and Rock had their faults *entire wrestling world gasps in horror*.

2) Truth puts on a good show and gets more heat then most of the other heels currently going. He's stuck around dispite being used horribly and paid his dues so to speak so I for one think he does infact deserve this push. And hell it's not like he's going to be a full on main-eventer anyway. At best I see him reaching a transitional champ type level.

3) Agreed Cody's clear mask is a stupid idea.

4) What the hell are you smoking? I watch TNA and enjoy it but let's be real it is nowhere near being better than or even equal to WWE in terms of wrighting.

In the end it all comes down to this isn't our WWE anymore the attitude era is dead and burried and we need to accept that WWE is a 'family' program, atleast for the time being.

[Juan]

I dunno, I feel like if you don't like Del Rio, or at least get why people like him, then you just don't understand what makes a good heel.

I mean, I can understand just not liking the guy, but to be blindly ignore that the guy is head and shoulders above a majority of the roster is another story.

You don't have to discredit something you don't like, you can just not like it.

[Juan]

Also, I don't think the clear mask is supposed to be "cool"

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Yeah, it's just supposed to be protective. Much better than this one, for instance.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/03/24/article-0-0411B33E000005DC-389_224x268.jpg

[Juan]

This thread just screams "i'm gonna not like what everyone seems to enjoy"

[James Steele]

http://www.godsofwrestling.com/images/cody-rhodes-is-gay.jpg

Cody Rhodes will be World Champion by 2013.

[James Steele]

http://www.ringsidenews.com/file/pic/photo/2011/06/carrierlp-photo-of-cody-rhodes-kissing-angelina-love.jpg

[Afterlife]

This thread just screams "i'm gonna not like what everyone seems to enjoy"

That's the point. That's why I didn't get into details and laid it on the table. You've already called me "a dick" for asking why Del Rio was allegedly great, and not being o.k. with the response "it's just my opinion". The fact is, these are the four things that jump out at me every week (Smackdown's completely inappropriate theme music notwithstanding) and I just figured, "Why not get it all out of my system at once?"

[Afterlife]

1. To expand, Del Rio does what he needs to do. Considering English isn't his native language, he's doing damn well on the mic. He doesn't come off as intimidated, I can understand him, and it's not bland/mundane. Hell, I'd argue his promos are better than HHH's old grumbling promos. Ring wise, he's learning WWE's style quickly and well, and is great in the ring compared to a lot of other people working that style. His matches tend to be interesting, have good psychology, and have a good flow.

He's not afraid to do his segments? O.k. I wouldn't expect anyone to be less than confidant about doing their job in a company like this. But not bland? Not mundane? What is in any way new or interesting about this character? What, really, is there to fawn over? As for his matches, I don't think he's terrible. But again, he's good. Not great.

2. As far as TNA goes, I really don't have to offer a counterpoint, because it's obviously not true. Likewise, you've given no evidence or opinion in regards to how it's better. The matches in WWE tend to be better lately, the angles are easily better, and I don't have to put up with Hogan in WWE. While I love some of the talent in TNA, watching TNA gives me a headache.

The difference is, WWE is doing great, and definitely better than it has in the past. It's exceeding my expectations for it. TNA has a ton of talent, and does fuck all with it. They're falling way below my expectations. And the problem is, I can't lower my expectations enough for TNA to meet them, because TNA always seems to find a way to "impress me" with how random and odd it is.

Every single Cena or Orton match is the same. Hell, most of Edge's matches were the same. The number of variants in any given WWE match is remarkably stunted. In TNA? The matches are always different. WWE has gotten better recently, sure; but they've also relaxed some of their bullshit when Rock and Austin started popping up. You've also got a few guys there who know more than 5 moves. But in TNA, things are just more realistic in terms of matches. It's not just a bunch of setting up this guy's signature, then this guy's signature, then a finisher. There's an organic realism to them, and they're genuinely impressive.

And this whining about Hogan and Bischoff confounds me. They're the authority figures. They're part of the show. I've not been here much, but does Teddy Long get shit on weekly for being on Sd episodes? sometimes he even shows up on one episode more than once. I bet that really cheeses people off. Also, Raw gets run by a laptop. That's incredibly lazy.

Finally, the only story line that's bothered me in TNA, lately, was Pope (which is a moniker I loathe) vs. Joe. That was really uninteresting because it felt as forced as it was. And when they gave up on it, I was glad. Yeah -- I was GLAD that a weak feud was dissolved. But a weak feud is nothing compared to something like Edge kidnapping a man for a month. 9 times outta 10, I'd say TNA does a pretty good job of flowing from storyline to storyline, the way a smaller company would have to. It's an entirely different atmosphere there, and I really don't see what the giant gripe is all about.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

1. I agree with this, completely. I'm already vastly more interested in that Indian dude, than Del Rio.

2. R-Truth was mute-worthy prior to his heel turn. While some of it is a little over the top, it's still infinitely more interesting than anything he's done as a face. He's not all that good on his own, with promos, but the way the other (better) performers react to him is usually entertaining.

3. The clear mask doesn't make any sense to me. If it was just for protection, then a clear mask is fine, but he's made a point of telling us that he wants to cover his hideous face, which the clear mask does not do.

4. I enjoy TNA every week, even with some of the ADD-inspired booking. I can appreciate 75% of an average TNA show. WWE really fails to interest me, for the most part. I probably zone out for at least 50% of any WWE show, or start web browsing because it doesn't hold my full attention. If this makes me retarded, I'll take two large scoops of dumbass with a side helping of dingbat, while I enjoy me some Impact Wrestling.

[Innovator]

1. Del Rio has fallen into the pitfall of development WWE loves, where a character gets initially over based off of a couple things and instead of developing it, they just keep it the same. One dimension, not two or three.

2. His finishers are horrible, but Truth is awesome right now. He stands out from the pack, which helps his case. (Punk > all, still)

3. Very.

4. WRESTLING MATTERS, BISCHOFF OPENING PROMO, WRESTLING MATTERS, 10 MINUTES OF WRESTLING ON A TWO HOUR SHOW, WRESTLING MATTERS.

[Afterlife]

Your #4 is just grossly inaccurate, Mr. O'Vator.

[Innovator]

Mr. Life,

While the wrestling on the shows, when I watch it, is usually good(except for Flippy City McFlip Guns), the booking decisions/promos leave me dumbfounded.

Excluded from the dumbfoundedness is Bubba.

[loopydate]

Your #4 is just grossly inaccurate, Mr. O'Vator.

Yeah! Last week's two-hour Impact Wrestling had almost FORTY minutes of wrestling! Come on now, Inno. Wrestling matters so much, it nearly took up a third of the show!

[Xero]

Let's be fair here. This past week's RAW, the THREE HOUR edition, had exactly the same amount of wrestling as Impact.

Totals from PWInsider:

WWE Raw - Total: 28 minutes
Kane versus Alberto Del Rio: 3 Minutes
Cody Rhodes, Ted DiBiase, and Wade Barrett versus Daniel Bryan, Ezekiel Jackson, and Sin Cara: 4 Minutes
Santino Marella versus Sheamus: 3 Minutes
Christian versus Rey Mysterio: 2 Minutes
Evan Bourne and Kofi Kingston versus Jack Swagger and Dolph Ziggler: 3 Minutes
Roddy Piper versus Miz: 1 Minute
The Bellas, Melina, Maryse, Alicia Fox, Tamina, and Rosa Mendes versus Kelly Kelly, Beth Phoenix, AJ Lee, Rosa Mendes, Kaitlyn, Natalya, and Gail Kim: 1 Minute
CM Punk versus John Cena: 11 Minutes

TNA Impact - Total: 28 minutes
Hernandez versus Devon: 2 Minutes
Jimmy Rave versus Austin Aries versus Kid Kash: 5 Minutes
Rosita and Sarita versus Velvet Sky and Miss Tessmacher: 4 Minutes
Samoa Joe versus Rob Van Dam: 9 Minutes
Gunner versus Ken Anderson: 8 Minutes

[Xero]

Honestly, Afterlife isn't wrong. WWE's matches ARE formulaic and repetitive compared to TNA's. It's the writing and how they try to be "inside" and "this is a shoot" on the show that bug the living shit out of me and keep me from really getting into it.

[Jordan]

I feel like your an idiot if you don't like Alberto or R-Truth as main heels in WWE. Those guys are both completely original and fucking hilarious. Go eat a bowl of poop, bitch.

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

I feel like your an idiot if you don't like Alberto or R-Truth as main heels in WWE. Those guys are both completely original and fucking hilarious. Go eat a bowl of poop, bitch.
you're*

[FourFifty]

1- Del Rio's ring work is a style that isn't often seen in the USA, and has room to get better. Give him time and he'll get better. He's the Mexican Million Dollar Man!

2- The Truth's push was rushed. He could have been decent in the main event if he had his program with John Morrison. For being in the main event as a heel he's totally under exposed. However, he's nowhere near a world title.

3- I think the gimmick works, but it's getting old. He should do it for a month, maybe two months more as he seeks some sort of help and becomes "Dashing" again.

4- To each their own. TNA has more in ring action, but WWE has better booking. A lot of TNA's main event roster are semi-retired wrestlers who wanted a less travel.

[Malfeitor]

I thought this past edition of Impact Wrestling was solid. The X Division match was rad and Austin Aries came out looking damn good. Joe vs RVD was pretty good as well. I think we'd all enjoy TNA a lot more if we were marks. Just saying.

[Xero]

The X Division stuff will die out right after the PPV like the ECW stuff did last year at Hardcore Justice. I really don't think you can say that's a plus in the long run UNTIL it's proven that it's a permanent fixture and not just for the gimmick PPV.

But for in the moment, it's awesome. It's just that it'll likely be yanked out from under you.

[Kane Knight]

4. WRESTLING MATTERS, BISCHOFF OPENING PROMO, WRESTLING MATTERS, 10 MINUTES OF WRESTLING ON A TWO HOUR SHOW, WRESTLING MATTERS.

Well, of course. The old saying is "tell, not show," right?

[James Steele]

Let's be fair here. This past week's RAW, the THREE HOUR edition, had exactly the same amount of wrestling as Impact.

Totals from PWInsider:

WWE Raw - Total: 28 minutes
Kane versus Alberto Del Rio: 3 Minutes
Cody Rhodes, Ted DiBiase, and Wade Barrett versus Daniel Bryan, Ezekiel Jackson, and Sin Cara: 4 Minutes
Santino Marella versus Sheamus: 3 Minutes
Christian versus Rey Mysterio: 2 Minutes
Evan Bourne and Kofi Kingston versus Jack Swagger and Dolph Ziggler: 3 Minutes
Roddy Piper versus Miz: 1 Minute
The Bellas, Melina, Maryse, Alicia Fox, Tamina, and Rosa Mendes versus Kelly Kelly, Beth Phoenix, AJ Lee, Rosa Mendes, Kaitlyn, Natalya, and Gail Kim: 1 Minute
CM Punk versus John Cena: 11 Minutes

TNA Impact - Total: 28 minutes
Hernandez versus Devon: 2 Minutes
Jimmy Rave versus Austin Aries versus Kid Kash: 5 Minutes
Rosita and Sarita versus Velvet Sky and Miss Tessmacher: 4 Minutes
Samoa Joe versus Rob Van Dam: 9 Minutes
Gunner versus Ken Anderson: 8 Minutes

WWE didn't completely rebrand there show/product: WRESTLING MATTERS. In fact, as many people here like to constantly point out, WWE doesn't even want WRESTLING in their name.

[chrisat928]

Isn't Del Rio still recovering from a broken hand?

[Afterlife]

WWE didn't completely rebrand there show/product: WRESTLING MATTERS. In fact, as many people here like to constantly point out, WWE doesn't even want WRESTLING in their name.

That's the point of "wrestling matters", though.

[James Steele]

That's the point of "wrestling matters", though.

Except TNA insults your intelligence by not making wrestling matter at all IN THE RING. They hyped RVD/Angle all night and it ended in a clusterfuck.