You have one match to convince a stranger that pro wrestling is an art form

[HTrain90]

Poll for a slow Sunday afternoon: one of your best friends who has never watched, appreciated, or respected WWE has agreed to watch one match. Your aim is to convince them that wrestling is an art form. What is the one match you pick?

[MoFo]

Vince McMahon v Zack Gowan

[VSG]

HBK vs Undertaker at WM 26

[HTrain90]

Vince McMahon v Zack Gowan

Successful troll is successful!

HBK - Taker from WM 26 is a good one. Not sure if that would top my list, but HBK-Taker (any match they ever had) tells a great story.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Dunno a match off the top of my head, but if I ever feel the need to convince my friends that wrestling is an art form, I hope those friends are kind enough to put an icepick through my skull and put me out of my misery.

[kareru]

wrestling in general or just wwe?

[HTrain90]

wrestling in general or just wwe?

In general, although with WWE being the most recognizable brand it may have more traction with a non-observer.

[The Naitch]

My friend always says wrestling is lame, but I played the HIAC Brock vs. The Undertaker at No Mercy 2002 and he was into it

[Majunior]

Well, considering I think it would have to be a current match... I mean, why show him a match from years ago with wrestlers who arent even in the company? I'd want my submission to be more relevant. Someone he could turn on the TV and go, "Hey, that's the guy!"

I'd probably say Punk's match at Capitol Punishment. If Punk leaves, probably Christian vs. Orton from Over the Limit.

As much as everyone loves HBK vs. Taker at WM, I wouldn't want to show the match, then have to add the disclaimer both those guys have quit and don't wrestle anymore. (And yeah, Taker is pretty much done. I don't expect to see him till WM next year.)

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

In general, although with WWE being the most recognizable brand it may have more traction with a non-observer.

But it's also the most generic version of it out there. It's like saying you want to show people how good science fiction is, so you show them Independence Day.

[Xero]

Clox vs. the guy who stomps on fingers

[Shadrick]

Definitely would have to say Taker/HBK I. However, the crowd was just into a good match and you'd have to know the buildup. There was no real face/heel dynamic there.

I'll come back to this thread. This is a good one...

[Rammsteinmad]

Benoit/Angle from Royal Rumble.

[Taker it Easy]

The first Royal Rumble that Shawn Michaels won, heck possibly the second one too.

[CSL]

Mankind/Taker KOTR 98, Hardyz/E&C No Mercy 99/TLC 2000 etc, something with big spots and bumps that look like they hurt, if that gets somebody interested then they can move on to how wrestling really works after that

[Gertner]

It's not a fucking art form. Stop it.

[HBPunk]

It's not a fucking art form. Stop it.

It is when you consider what passes for 'art' these days.

Over the years iv shown a few guys and girls (some were non fans, some were aware of it and hadn't watched in years) the TLC match from WrestleMania X-7 and it worked well every time. Other matches that went over well were Foley vs HHH from Rumble 2000, Edge vs Foley from WM22 and Rock vs Austin at WM X-7. No point showing a non fan something like HBK vs Taker I and saying 'what a terrific story eh?'

[Nicky Fives]

HBK/Flair Retirement Match.....

[Shisen Kopf]

Bushwhackers vs some jobber team on Rasslin challenge in 1990

[DLVH84]

Jushin Thunder Liger vs. Franz Schumann (CWA Euro Catch Festival, December 19, 1992)

[James Steele]

Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - SummerSlam 2002

[FourFifty]

The Undertaker vs Mankind, HiAC. It has all the elements you need. A good story, great action, drama, and of course seeing Mick Foley getting tossed off the cell.

[TNA&USA#1]

Anything with Kurt Angle or AJ Styles.

[FourFifty]

Anything with Kurt Angle or AJ Styles.

Kurt Angle vs The Big Show during Kurt's early years when he told people not to fuck... Go ahead and explain that as "art."

[Corporate CockSnogger]

If my friend told me to show him a wrestling match so he could get into it I would probably say "nah I can't be bothered, let's go do something else".

But hypothetically speaking, a TLC match or Rock vs Mankind - I quit match or something.

[YoungFlyFlashy]

Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker HIAC

or

Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart Iron Man Match

[Razzamajazz]

but wwe isn't pro wrestling

[FourFifty]

Anything with Kurt Angle or AJ Styles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR5tIFlhetw
AJ Styles VS The Hurricane. How is that "art"?

[TNA&USA#1]

How is it less art than every other match ever? Explain that.

[FourFifty]

No build up, no drama, it was pretty much The Undertaker vs Barry Horowitz when it came to the tipsters for this match, it was short, the action we weak, Hurricane was the midcarder and Styles was the local jobber.

[TNA&USA#1]

That doesn't mean it's not art. It means it's bad art. There's a difference.

[FourFifty]

.....so you want to tell people that wrestling is bad art?

How about this- you tell me why The Hurricane vs AJ Styles on whatever they renamed Shot Saturday Night to should get the same artistic merit as HBK vs The Undertaker at WM26.

[TNA&USA#1]

.....so you want to tell people that wrestling is bad art?

How about this- you tell me why The Hurricane vs AJ Styles on whatever they renamed Shot Saturday Night to should get the same artistic merit as HBK vs The Undertaker at WM26.

I didn't say it should? Why are you clinging to this one match so hard. I clearly wasn't being literal when I said any match. Pretty sure most people understood that. But you apparently just had to try and nitpick a meaningless exaggeration that I have no intention of arguing about. You win. Congratulations.

[FourFifty]

You win. Congratulations.

That'll be a nice quote in my sig.

But anyways, you asked me how is that match any less worth of being called art.
"How is it less art than every other match ever? Explain that. "
I, in turn, explained it. You, in turn, defended it art by claiming it as art as "bad art."
After that I asked you to explain why it should have the same merit as a huge match. I can accept it as "bad art" (much like throwing pigs blood on the canvas while reading twilight dressed up in drag can be seen as art) but just defend your point. You defended it once by saying it's bad art.

All you had to do was say "lol, my bad" or something like that after I pointed out AJ vs Helms on a late night show that was used as filler for the people who bought tickets to Raw or SmackDown, which then got turned into cheap tv. But no, you still claimed it was "art" even it was "bad art."

[TNA&USA#1]

I already said you won. I over exaggerated and you totally put me in my place. This topic is not nearly interesting enough to get into an argument about. You can have it.

[Fox]

Randy Orton vs Mick Foley - No Holds Barred Match

[FourFifty]

While Orton and Foley "raised the the roof", so to speak, I still feel Edge and Foley blew the damn thing off.

[CSL]

That'll be a nice quote in my sig.

wow

[4 knuckles up]

Well, wrestling is art. You have two people in the ring performing physical theatre, in the round, to a live audience. They are not really fighting each other. They are acting out a fight routine they have choreographed to whatever degree.

I think if I was going to persuade someone that rasslin' was indeed, an artform, I suppose i'd either show them a match with a huge emotional level to it, such as HBK/Flair (letting them in on the build-up, if that was allowed) or something extremely impressive to look at visually, such as the classic Eddie/Rey HH '96 match.

[loopydate]

Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart Iron Man Match

Great match, but do you really want to be the guy saying "Hey, thanks for taking an interest in wrestling. Now watch these two guys for an hour."

[Fox]

While Orton and Foley "raised the the roof", so to speak, I still feel Edge and Foley blew the damn thing off.

I enjoyed both matches, but I just felt that the vs Orton match had a much better story behind it and the match flowed really nicely. Everything about it was perfectly done and it made me wince a few times. The match vs Edge was great, but it kind of felt forced and not as natural as the match at Backlash.

In other words, your opinion is wrong, and you are dumb.



Also, I think I remember watching Shane vs Kurt Angle from KOTR with a non-wrestling fan and it had them pretty glued to the screen for the duration of the match. Who doesn't like seeing someone get suplexed through plate glass windows? That shit is awesome.

[FourFifty]

or suplexed INTO a window, AMIRITE!!?!?!?!?

I think it'd be easier to follow a storyline than a match as art. If it's just a match all they have is the in ring action. However, the storyline behind the match, on the other end, that's where the magic happens.

[dhellova guy]

Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat, best 2 out of 3 falls, 1989. That's art.

[Nervous Ferret]

Banana phone

[St. Jimmy]

ROH Testing the Limit- Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries (2 out of 3 Falls)

Whole Match:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B8X7X1A0

[Snowden]

Bret Hart v. Stone Cold @ Wrestlemania 13. The double turn in the match is one of the best stories ever told in the ring. If you're going to convince someone that fake combat can be an art form, it has to be able to tell a fantastic story...and that's about the best its ever gotten.

[Rock Bottom]

Hart vs. Angle. Match was fucking phenomenal.

[HBPunk]

Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - SummerSlam 2002

The Undertaker vs Mankind, HiAC. It has all the elements you need. A good story, great action, drama, and of course seeing Mick Foley getting tossed off the cell.

Both would be awesome to show a non fan who im assuming is thinking "ugh wrestling, thats so gay and fake, men in their underwear touchin eachothers balls bla blah". A match with a good story wouldn't matter at all i reckon

TNA and FourFifty deserve an award for their argument, that was a whole new level of dickhead

[HBPunk]

And wrestling is an art form, in this day and age anything that is performed well be it a band, a type of dance, a painting, a poem, a fucking gymnast etc it is all declared 'art' by most people.

[St. Jimmy]

art/ärt/Noun
1. The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
2. Works produced by such skill and imagination.

Yes. It qualifies, quit bitching.

[Asmo]

Bret Hart VS Owen Hart - Wrestlemania X

[HBPunk]

It's not a fucking art form. Stop it.

I read a story this week where it was pointed out that black is in fact white. :foc:

[Shisen Kopf]

Jushin Thunder Liger vs. Franz Schumann (CWA Euro Catch Festival, December 19, 1992)

I was at that and it wasn't that good. So try again with another obscure event. Wooooo obscure rasslin!!

[Shisen Kopf]

Also, rasslin isn't art. It's pro fucking rasslin! Art is for people like seth82 if you know what I mean.

[HBPunk]

art/ärt/Noun
1. The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
2. Works produced by such skill and imagination.

Yes. It qualifies, quit bitching.

Also, rasslin isn't art. It's pro fucking rasslin! Art is for people like seth82 if you know what I mean.

Im guessing you're trolling but if its a case that you are deeply retarded or just dumb then iv posted these together to make it nice and easy for you to understand. Have a little look up there good lad

[Shisen Kopf]

Rasslin ain't art jabroni. By that definition anything is art. Wooooo!

[HBPunk]

Yeah exactly, every skill is an art form.

And despite the facts proving that you are 100% wrong you still argue. So yeah, im out this bitch. Somebody else can have you. And it feels like warm apple pie cos im sure you are wondering

[LK]

Chris Benoit vs HHH vs Shawn Michaels - had everything that shows the emotion that comes as a result of decades of work.

[HBPunk]

I wouldn't show any prospective fan a Chris Benoit match (aside from the fact that i hated everything about him pre-murders and he's a household name now because of said murders) but because he wrestled ugly. Watching him force people into his finisher was so awful. Watching 10, 30 or 50 german suplexes was boring. wrestling should look pretty and cool esp a wrestlers finish (eg Swanton, SSP, RKO, Sweet Chin Music, Tombstone, Pedigree). Just my opinion tho

[LK]

I wouldn't show any prospective fan a Chris Benoit match (aside from the fact that i hated everything about him pre-murders and he's a household name now because of said murders) but because he wrestled ugly. Watching him force people into his finisher was so awful. Watching 10, 30 or 50 german suplexes was boring. wrestling should look pretty and cool esp a wrestlers finish (eg Swanton, SSP, RKO, Sweet Chin Music, Tombstone, Pedigree). Just my opinion tho
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wAxDMfEGhoY/TLOVnpZzzoI/AAAAAAAAAVE/JSuh_GX59Ks/s1600/Not+Sure+if+serious.jpg

[Shisen Kopf]

My favorite artist of all time has to be Mantaur or Bastion Booger.

[HBPunk]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wAxDMfEGhoY/TLOVnpZzzoI/AAAAAAAAAVE/JSuh_GX59Ks/s1600/Not+Sure+if+serious.jpg

Well Mr. Ledger i am super serial

[Ruien]

0 because wrestling is not an art.

[HBPunk]

Hey, im currently jobbing to you Ruien. But yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes it is art. It simply is and its a fuckin fact. Unbelievable. Some of you would happily argue black is white. And you will convince yourselves you're right. Amazing stuff. So why isn't it art? Is it not a visual form of creative skill?

[Gertner]

It's not an art form. Fuck, I hate when people try to make this crap out to be more than what it really is: mindless entertainment.

[Shisen Kopf]

Yeah it's pro rasslin it's not art. If rasslin is art then Great Khali promos are poetry.

[My Final Heaven]

Couple of ideas...

Royal Rumble 1992 (the one that Flair won) - I'd most likely show this match to anybody who gave me that ultimatum, though I think loopydate made a really good point on page 1 about making someone sit through an hour+ match - but with a Rumble, it's not like you're sitting there and watching 2 guys counterwrestle for an hour. There's a great cross-section of classic guys involved in this one, you get Flair of coarse, Piper, Hogan, Bulldog, and about 20 other guys who were all on top of their game that night. I'm not sure about explaining the gimmicks of Barbarian and Nasty Boy Jerry Sags a non-fan, tho >_>

I'd consider any of the matches Chigusa Nagano and Jaguar Yokota had in the 80's if it was a dude. I'm sure 2 tanned, incredibly fit women in swimsuits throwing each other around in complicated holds would be able to keep any guy's interest for 15 minutes.

[HBPunk]

It's not an art form. Fuck, I hate when people try to make this crap out to be more than what it really is: mindless entertainment.

Yeah it's pro rasslin it's not art. If rasslin is art then Great Khali promos are poetry.

I get it now, you guys just dont understand what the word means. Its funny how you will maintain ignorance tho. Usually when people dont understand something they deny it to the ends of the earth because the idea sounds so foreign and therefore its unacceptable. Someday you guys will grow up though. Taker It Easy

[HBPunk]

Tell a wrestler that their expertly perfected trade that they dedicated their lives to is 'mindless entertainment' and see how far you get

[Lock Jaw]

Bret Hart v. Stone Cold @ Wrestlemania 13. The double turn in the match is one of the best stories ever told in the ring. If you're going to convince someone that fake combat can be an art form, it has to be able to tell a fantastic story...and that's about the best its ever gotten.

This.

ARTISTIC COMBAT at its finest.

[HBPunk]

This.

ARTISTIC COMBAT at its finest.

:y: :y: :y: :y:
:y: :y: :y:
:y: :y:
:y:

[Ruien]

I do not consider baseball an art.
I do not consider basketball an art.
I do not consider football an art.
I do not consider hockey/soccer/tennis/bowling/fishing an art.
I do not consider wrestling an art.
I do not consider hunting an art.

If you go on the "visual form of creative skill", then how come no one considers any sport an art? The way Carl Everett swung the baseball bat was creative skill, but it was not art. In reality, that argument basically makes everything in life an art.

[CSL]

Professional wrestling is a performance art. It's often corny, often low-brow, riddled with homosexual overtones and followed by a large amount of spastics but a performance art nonetheless. It's acting, it's performing, it's dancing, it's showmanship, it's conflict and resolution, it's a soap opera. Only with a stigma attached to it.

[Shisen Kopf]

Rasslin isn't art but it is fucking serious business. Real fucking serious. Wooooo!

[CSL]

Everything in life is 'fucking serious business' to somebody.

[HBPunk]

shisen kopf is a trolling jerkoff but its artistic the way he trolls

[Shisen Kopf]

Everything in life is 'fucking serious business' to somebody.

Yes I bet an artist would be pissed that some nitwits are calling rasslin art. Van Gogh, Davinci, Cena!

[CSL]

on some small artsy forum populated by struggling actors and artists with too much time spent on said forum, quite possibly. Right analogy anyway.

[HBPunk]

Yes I bet an artist would be pissed that some nitwits are calling rasslin art. Van Gogh, Davinci, Cena!

See i fucking new this. Art doesn't just mean picking up a fucking paintbrush you left testicle

[HBPunk]

and he neg repped me too. Fucking moronic jizzrag doesn't even cover it

[Shisen Kopf]

HBpizzunk knows how serious business pro rasslin is.

[Asmo]

Let's see if i make some sense here:

Sporting analogy. Why do commentators (especially cricket and football / soccer if you will) go "that was beautiful", or "what a masterstroke" when a player showcases talent that's goes well beyond the usual? Because the player takes that shot/kick/moment and creates a larger emotion that has the base of sporting performance, multiplied with the finesse or a master craftsman, literally creating a work of art in that particular sport/field.

The same can be applied to wrestling.

[Shisen Kopf]

Cricket?? It's the fourth of July. Get outta here with that English crap

[HBPunk]

Asmo i wish i could hug you! This thread was supposed to be about the matches that are the most amazing works of art created in the ring, yet some people are in here arguing the 'work of art' part of the title. This thread should be framed and shown to people who doubt that the internet is half-filled with ignorant no-nothing morons. I fully believe that people like Shisen Kopf actually think they are right but instead of holding their hands up and admitting their mistake, they argue in an even more retarded way and then get aggressive (neg repping me and posting on my wall during all this)

[HBPunk]

Cricket?? It's the fourth of July. Get outta here with that English crap

HBpizzunk knows how serious business pro rasslin is.

I fully believe that people like Shisen Kopf actually think they are right but instead of holding their hands up and admitting their mistake, they argue in an even more retarded way and then get aggressive (neg repping me and posting on my wall during all this)

Completely justified my point as i typed it. Awesome

[Shisen Kopf]

HBpunk is a huge faggot!!

[HBPunk]

If you say so. But we were looking for "An Idiot", that was the correct term but oh well better luck with the next category

[Shisen Kopf]

Lol Juan editing my posts. What a stinky beaner!

[Gertner]

Is Jackass art? Because there is no difference whatsoever between Jackass and Wrestling

[Gertner]

I'm a fantastic long distance runner. Very very good. What I do is not art, it's a skill.

[Shisen Kopf]

I would loveto agree with you L L but Juan will ban me because if you have an opinion that differs it's trolling. What's up wit dat?!

[HBPunk]

Ya im done, not gonna resort to name calling but to everyone who argues its not an art, you guys will go far in life :roll:

[HBPunk]

A week ago i never thought id agree with Juan but he is 100% spot on

[Juan]

I would loveto agree with you L L but Juan will ban me because if you have an opinion that differs it's trolling. What's up wit dat?!

There's a difference between having an opinion and being a complete, ridiculous cunt bag. You should find a balance between the two

[The Naitch]

For HBPunk, spazzing is an art

[HBPunk]

Eat a dick naitch

[The Naitch]

Spazztology is a science though

HBPunk teaches some courses

[The Naitch]

me and Shisen once attended a class, to learn from the best