Most Overrated Fighters (Blame IC for This)

[Next Big Thing]

Does a guy have to beat a UFC "brand name" to be considered the best in his weight class? Guys like Fedor, Wanderlei, Big Nog and Hendo come to mind.

Wanderlei and Fedor dominated in pride, but if you look at the majority of their opponents you have to admit it's not like the level of competition was equivalent to what GSP has faced over his career.

BUT, I think you can look at the way a guy wins those fights along with the consistency and technique displayed can still allow a guy to be considered one of the best. I believe Gilbert Melendez and Eddie Alvarez are good examples today of guys who deserve to be considered among the best in their weight class because of the manner in which they win and their consistency even though they don't fight in the UFC.

So do guys like Fedor and Wandy deserve the praise they get, or are they overrated and glorified can crushers?

[IC Champion]

When you talk about guys from Pride you're talking about a different era of MMA when the UFC didnt house 90% of the top 25 ranked fighters from each weight class.

And for the record I thought Fedor was the number one HW in the world up until he lost.

[Nark Order]

Akiyama. Seriously.

[Next Big Thing]

Yeah... I go back and forth on Akiyama. He definitely wasn't worth the hype but at the same time he does bring it every fight and losing to Leben and Spitsbing isn't that bad. He's serviceable maybe?

[IC Champion]

Can't we just get passed the fact that some of your favourite MMA fighters happen to crush cans for a living?

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Wandy isn't overrated as much as he's just past his prime. His style of fighting takes it's toll.

The only real obviously overrated guy who comes to mind recently is Lesnar. Not to crap on his wrestling ability, but people thought he'd be great, but his stand up was lacking, and more importantly, he turtles up when he gets hit.

I'm actually curious to see how Jon Jones reacts when he gets into real danger.

[SuperSlim]

Fedor? Overrated? Come on he did face off against some top guys in his time. He beat Big Nog in his Pride days and he was good during those days. Beat him twice. Beat Cro Cop in Pride and anyone that compares Cro Cop tween then and now would say without a doubt that he was the man with those head kicks. Just Fedor is better than people wanna give him credit for just cause of his two losses. 11 years fighting is gonna catch up to ya.

And Wandy been fighting since 96... and his style of fighting is definitely going to take its toll on you and even in Pride he had some high caliber fighters. Just time and injuries is catching up to him. Wandy... isn't overrated. Just past his time. Sadly. He was a beast of a man.

[Reavant]

Yea, using fedor and wanderlei as the center of the discussion is retarded.

Back in the day, they were the best of the best. Sure they didnt fight the best opposition every fight they had, but they also had twice the number of fights in the same amount of time that the "best of now" currently partake in. In other words, give GSP a can between every fight he has with a legit contender, he will have the same type of record at fedor and wanderlei.

To call them overrated is like saying chuck liddel, matt hughes, and randy couture are overrated based on how their careers are ending.


Guys like gil and eddie alvares should be considered among the best, but they havnt tested themselves against the best. They have however dominated their competition accordingly, but until they beat the best guys in the UFC, they cant lay claim to the top spot.

[Next Big Thing]

I don't see what's retarded about wondering if some of the Pride guys are overrated, especially in Fedor's case.

It's not like these guys are Sakuraba or Couture or even have been fighting the same volume of opponents in the past 6 years like they did in Pride. Fedor is 34 and hasn't fought more than twice in a year since he was 28. Chuck, Randy and Matt Hughes (if you think winning 3 out of your last 4 is a bad ending) were all 38 or older when they started their decline.

I don't see how the "back in the day," "different era" argument can be made for Fedor or even Wandy like it would be made for Chuck, Randy and Matt. Fedor's the same age as Lesnar, younger than Carwin and both of those guys were UFC champions at one point. He very much still could have competed in that division unlike Couture and Liddell at LHW who were both in their late 30's/early 40's at that same point in time.

Volume of fights doesn't really help the argument either. Rampage has 5 more fights under his belt than Fedor and only 6 less than Wanderlei but I think it's more than fair to say that the caliber of opponent Rampage has defeated and lost to is much better than what Fedor faced and unlike both Fedor and Wandy, he's been successful off the Japanese circuit. Anderson Silva has just as many fights as Fedor, is two years older and has dominated a higher level of competition. Matt Hughes had just as many fights when he debuted in the UFC as Fedor does total fights now. It's fair to say that all of those guys have sustained their fair share of injuries over that time period, but Hughes, Rampage and Silva all proved themselves against tougher competition.

Even caliber of opponent doesn't compare. Think about the guys Fedor beat during that period. He clearly had Big Nog's number and fought Cro Cop once. It wouldn't be like giving GSP a can between every other fight against a legit contender. It would be like giving him 10 cans between every other legit contender.


















Now... All that being said. I was just playing devil's advocate with Fedor and Wandy. I think the runs they had in Pride were amazing due to the level of dominance and not necessarily the caliber of opponents, although Wandy beat a better level of fighters in my opinion. I do believe that it's not as cut and dry a debate though.

[Krimzon7]

We are one step from using integers to figure out who would win in a fight between Superman and Batman

Not anymore...

[Reavant]

I don't see what's retarded about wondering if some of the Pride guys are overrated, especially in Fedor's case.

It's not like these guys are Sakuraba or Couture or even have been fighting the same volume of opponents in the past 6 years like they did in Pride. Fedor is 34 and hasn't fought more than twice in a year since he was 28. Chuck, Randy and Matt Hughes (if you think winning 3 out of your last 4 is a bad ending) were all 38 or older when they started their decline. in liddel's and hughes case, the decline was much before that. Hughes started the downslide in 2006 (33 years old) and liddel when he was 36. Hughes going 3 of 4 in his last fights isnt a testament to him being prime because he could have easily lost the decision to serra, fought a can in gracie, and im on the fence with almeda but he caught him early in a strange sub.

Couture is very intellegent and always a game fighter, but his last three victories were jokes of fights and he showed where he was at against machida.

I don't see how the "back in the day," "different era" argument can be made for Fedor or even Wandy like it would be made for Chuck, Randy and Matt. Fedor's the same age as Lesnar, younger than Carwin and both of those guys were UFC champions at one point. He very much still could have competed in that division unlike Couture and Liddell at LHW who were both in their late 30's/early 40's at that same point in time. Wandy and fedor both started fighting in their teens or early 20s and have consistently fought through that time. The men you mentioned didnt start till way later.


Volume of fights doesn't really help the argument either. Rampage has 5 more fights under his belt than Fedor and only 6 less than Wanderlei but I think it's more than fair to say that the caliber of opponent Rampage has defeated and lost to is much better than what Fedor faced and unlike both Fedor and Wandy, he's been successful off the Japanese circuit. Anderson Silva has just as many fights as Fedor, is two years older and has dominated a higher level of competition. Matt Hughes had just as many fights when he debuted in the UFC as Fedor does total fights now. It's fair to say that all of those guys have sustained their fair share of injuries over that time period, but Hughes, Rampage and Silva all proved themselves against tougher competition.

Even caliber of opponent doesn't compare. Think about the guys Fedor beat during that period. He clearly had Big Nog's number and fought Cro Cop once. It wouldn't be like giving GSP a can between every other fight against a legit contender. It would be like giving him 10 cans between every other legit contender.

Lets not use Rampage to proove a point on fight volume here considering how many names do you recognize before he fought liddel the second time?

Same with hughes until he got to the ufc.

Silva much the same earlier in his career, but he has the a style of fighting that makes him take very little damage.

[Reavant]

Basically if you dont retire from the sport when your on top, your going to be seen as overrated based on the "what have you done lately" mentality with fighters in this sport

[Next Big Thing]

I disagree. I don't think anyone is looking back at the careers of Matt Hughes, BJ Penn, Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell or even Tito and saying they're overrated. On a larger scale, I don't think anyone looks at Ali or Tyson and says they're overrated. That's an inane assertion.

I do think that if you look back on the careers of guys who primarily fought middle of the road Japanese fighters only to struggle when they come stateside against better skilled opponents it at the very least opens up the discussion.

[Next Big Thing]

in liddel's and hughes case, the decline was much before that. Hughes started the downslide in 2006 (33 years old) and liddel when he was 36. Hughes going 3 of 4 in his last fights isnt a testament to him being prime because he could have easily lost the decision to serra, fought a can in gracie, and im on the fence with almeda but he caught him early in a strange sub.

Couture is very intellegent and always a game fighter, but his last three victories were jokes of fights and he showed where he was at against machida.
Wandy and fedor both started fighting in their teens or early 20s and have consistently fought through that time. The men you mentioned didnt start till way later.



Lets not use Rampage to proove a point on fight volume here considering how many names do you recognize before he fought liddel the second time?

Same with hughes until he got to the ufc.

Silva much the same earlier in his career, but he has the a style of fighting that makes him take very little damage.

If you want to make that argument about Rampage and Hughes fight volume then you have to apply the same to Fedor. How many names do you recognize during his run? Now how many of those guys were out of their prime UFC guys? How many of those guys were just kickboxers? When you do that you have two or three legit opponents max. By the way, Fedor's fights over the last 5 years haven't been career draining wars either. I don't think any of them went to a decision.

Fedor started fighting in his teens.... Okay so did Vitor Belfort. Rampage was 21 when he started fighting and has fought out a pace that has allowed him to surpass the number of fights Fedor has. Don't you think his body would be more worn down, especially when you consider the fights he's had since joining the UFC compared to the fights Fedor has had since Pride folded? Anderson was doing muay thai in his late teens. Should his 36 year old body be breaking down on him?

I'm tempted to agree on Wandy though.

[Reavant]

If you want to make that argument about Rampage and Hughes fight volume then you have to apply the same to Fedor. How many names do you recognize during his run? Now how many of those guys were out of their prime UFC guys? How many of those guys were just kickboxers? When you do that you have two or three legit opponents max. By the way, Fedor's fights over the last 5 years haven't been career draining wars either. I don't think any of them went to a decision.

Fedor started fighting in his teens.... Okay so did Vitor Belfort. Rampage was 21 when he started fighting and has fought out a pace that has allowed him to surpass the number of fights Fedor has. Don't you think his body would be more worn down, especially when you consider the fights he's had since joining the UFC compared to the fights Fedor has had since Pride folded? Anderson was doing muay thai in his late teens. Should his 36 year old body be breaking down on him?

I'm tempted to agree on Wandy though.
I was applying the same to fedor in terms of fight volume... thats why i said those guys were bad examples if your going to argue that. And while fedor's last fights may not have been against guys in their prime, he was still fighting former world champs that were top 10 ranked at the time.

vitor never fought consistently throughout his whole career. Hes taken huge breaks in action. And seeing how he had back to back injuries last year id say his body is wearing down as well.

Rampage is still going strong, but he has changed his fighting style a lot from the beginning of his career. Hes much slower and less aggressive looking to brawl and throw counters.


Silva is lucky that he employs a style that really makes him take no damage. However seeing how a year ago he went under the knife to fix an elbow because of bone spurs, then yes id say his body is feeling the effects of a career.

[Reavant]

I disagree. I don't think anyone is looking back at the careers of Matt Hughes, BJ Penn, Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell or even Tito and saying they're overrated. On a larger scale, I don't think anyone looks at Ali or Tyson and says they're overrated. That's an inane assertion.

I do think that if you look back on the careers of guys who primarily fought middle of the road Japanese fighters only to struggle when they come stateside against better skilled opponents it at the very least opens up the discussion.

I was applying the same to fedor in terms of fight volume... thats why i said those guys were bad examples if your going to argue that. And while fedor's last fights may not have been against guys in their prime, he was still fighting former world champs that were top 10 ranked at the time.



I want to point that out here because at the time those were huge matches for fedor where he dominated a former champ who was still ranked very high. I think #5 and #2 at the time they fought him. Because of their downslide after fighting fedor, you have everyone discrediting fedor's accomplishments in beating them.

[IC Champion]

Yeah Fedor is a very bad example.