Could TNA sell out Madison Square Garden?

[Rollermacka]

Simple question, if TNA goes on a massive promotional campaign and uses all their resources could they sell out Madison Square Garden? I guess their the second largest American wrestling company by default, if they can't sell out how well could they do?

[#1-norm-fan]

If they promoted the hell out of it, hyping the big names that people know from WWE and Sting... I don't see why not.

[CSL]

dunno, they fit 3,500 people into an 8,000+ seater venue with Bound for Glory last year, which is their WrestleMania

[Xero]

They got 6000 for BaseBrawl in Brooklyn.

MSG is a 20k seater.

Honestly, I kind of doubt it. I mean, if they did everything right with promotion, matches and build, sure, they could do it. But WWE couldn't sell out MSG on Bret's return IIRC. If WWE can't sell out the Garden even on a house show with Bret's first appearance there in 13 years, how are TNA going to sell out a PPV?

[captaincharismark]

Simple question, if TNA goes on a massive promotional campaign and uses all their resources could they sell out Madison Square Garden? I guess their the second largest American wrestling company by default, if they can't sell out how well could they do?

At this point and time, I'd have to say no. Until TNA stops acting like the number 2 federation and tries to be original, they'll never be a threat to WWE. Fans don't wanna see another WWE right now.

I know in several instances where I've tried to go to live TNA shows, they'd have to cancel the shows due to poor ticket sales. So, selling out MSG would probably be a stretch...

[Seth82]

Hell No

Not Gonna Happen

[Xero]

They could sell out the Theater at MSG.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

I have serious doubts as to whether they could sell out a large Olive Garden.

[Advocado]

If they papered the fuck out of it, yeah, definitely.

[Tornado]

They get something crazy like 8'000 for live house shows in the UK, and I barely see that promoted.

Can't picture then ever selling out MSG.

[dhellova guy]

No, no, no, no, NOOOOOOOO!

I doubt TNA could GIVE AWAY enough tickets to fill the garden. They are a poorly run organization, and until that changes people aren't coming.

Talent wise, they could compete with anybody, but no one in that company knows how to get anyone over, so no one cares about them.

[Razzamajazz]

depends on if they charge for tickets or not

[dronepool]

Maybe in 5 to 10 years, but right now... no way. The average person has no idea what TNA is.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Right now in 2011, I'd say no. Depending on the quality/popularity of their product in the future they might be able to by 2015 or 2020, but even that seems like a long shot from where they're at now.

[Nicky Fives]

Not with Russo booking or with Hulk Hogan in the company.....

pretty much could never happen.....

[#1-norm-fan]

Well... even with "their WrestleMania" they couldn't do it based on that alone. A shitty organization's WrestleMania only means it's the biggest show of a shitty organization. They'd have to hype it as the biggest TNA event ever and appeal to nostalgia with Sting, Angle, Bischoff, Hogan, etc. I mean... a random "Wrestlefest" with those guys would draw something. A TNA show would draw a little. A TNA show with nostalgia for the common, old-timey WWE fans who aren't as aware of TNA that is and is promoted as currently relevant and not JUST an appeal to nostalgia, I believe COULD sell out the Garden. After all, Hogan + the Garden iteself raises the nostalgia factor automatically. I feel like he would have to wrestle though.

[Innovator]

Only if they had Kevin Nash. Nash got 30k in there.

[BizarroKing]

Let's see MSG seats 20,000? I'd say TNA gets...2000.

At most.

[road doggy dogg]

Jesus Christ no.
crossrine

[Droford]

I wonder if they could fill MSG if they were giving every single ticket away.

[tjmidnight420]

Hell No

Not Gonna Happen

[#1-norm-fan]

Hey, RDD's back.

[Cuse8]

give away free beer and maybe

besides that, better chance of hogan growing a full head of hair then tna selling out msg

[Juan]

http://gosounders.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/outlook-not-so-good.jpg

[St. Jimmy]

They could do 20K divided by 6.

[lam1610]

they couldnt even sell out a bingo hall

[Jordan]

This is a really dumb question, in no way would TNA ever sell out MSG right now. New York doesn't really care about Wrestling like we used too, we have a strong culture of smart fans but that's the thing, smart fans don't really go crazy for TNA here. They could get a lot of mutants to Coney Island for their first Basebrawl and even the 2nd did well compared to their other shows... but MSG? Hahaha, yeah right, they couldn't fill it to capacity if it was free.

[TazFTW86]

they couldn't fill it to capacity if it was free.

well said

[Battlekat]

depends on if they charge for tickets or not

Even then I'd say 3,000 at best.

[Majunior]

I have serious doubts as to whether they could sell out a large Olive Garden.

I LOL'd at this, but I also second it.

[Shisen Kopf]

If the tickets were $5 and it was all you can drink free beer night, they might be able to sell about 10,000 maybe

[Aaronp43]

Dude what have you been smoking?No way

[JimmyMess]

TNA was in my town a few weeks ago, and when I drove by the arena, every person I saw walking in had some sort of WWE memorabilia on (shirts, replica belts, etc.) . So I don't think they have the fanbase to sell out the Garden.

Seems the small local shows attract people cause they say "hey its wrestling"

[Stickman]

WWE has exclusivity at MSG don't they?

[Droford]

*insert joke involving Madison Rayne here*

[Seth82]

WWE has exclusivity at MSG don't they?

I thought so

which is why WCW could never run a show there

they were reduced to run shows at the Felt Forum

[Supreme Olajuwon]

TNA could easily sell out Madison Square Garden.

[Vietnamese Crippler]

Maybe, if the promotional post read "WWE Presents: TNA"

[Lock Jaw]

*insert joke involving Madison Rayne here*

They could probably sell out Madison's Square Garden in Madison Square Garden. :naughty:

[Lock Jaw]

No idea what that means.

[captaincharismark]

TNA was in my town a few weeks ago, and when I drove by the arena, every person I saw walking in had some sort of WWE memorabilia on (shirts, replica belts, etc.) . So I don't think they have the fanbase to sell out the Garden.

Seems the small local shows attract people cause they say "hey its wrestling"

Yeah, I saw the same thing at the few meet and greets I went to for Slammiversary. Almost every fan had WWE merchandise and was talking about WWE events. Not a good way to build a loyal fanbase.

Right now, they probably couldn't half way sell out MSG, much less the whole building. If they can't get enough fans to hold a live event in Tupelo, MS, I doubt MSG is even being considered now...

[Wishbone]

I've been enjoying TNA as of late and they are starting to get better but from a realistic standpoint.... well to quote the ex-WWE Chairman's theme "No chance in hell!".

[Rock Bottom]

Probably, if they really crammed those tickets down peoples' throat for a dollar or something.

[The MAC]

Any question about tna can be answered with "fire Russo, hire heyman'

[Fox]

They would need a HUGE main event that would draw in people who didn't watch/didn't know about TNA. Like Hulk Hogan vs Stone Cold huge. And right now, they don't have anyone of that caliber on their roster who could realistically headline a PPV with Hogan and create interest in the casual fan.

[Testicle]

There is no way.

WWE didn't sell out the Garden the last couple of times they were there. How the fuck would TNA do it?

[Testicle]

TNA's all-time largest crowd was ~6,300 for a Lockdown PPV, 4 years ago, featuring Kurt Angle and Christian, and now out of nowhere, with bullshit talent, bullshit booking, and absolutely no direction, they are going to more than triple that, at WWE's arena.

NO! THIS IS FUCKING STUPID! YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING RETARDED!

[captaincharismark]

Any question about tna can be answered with "fire Russo, hire heyman'

If only TNA would think like that, maybe they'd have a more loyal fanbase...

[RiX1024]

Maybe less than a quarter of it.

[Emperor Smeat]

No chance because they barely get large enough crowds or interest in their shows currently to even consider attempting filling up MGS for a show. I think their ppv buyrates barely come close to half the size of MGS which is usually larger than the crowds they can get to watch the show.

MGS might be a wrestling hotbed but historically it has been more towards pro-WWE and even the WWE is having problems getting sell out crowds today.

[thedamndest]

TNA's all-time largest crowd was ~6,300 for a Lockdown PPV, 4 years ago, featuring Kurt Angle and Christian, and now out of nowhere, with bullshit talent, bullshit booking, and absolutely no direction, they are going to more than triple that, at WWE's arena.

NO! THIS IS FUCKING STUPID! YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING RETARDED!

Did you even read the responses to this thread?

[Ruien]

Does WWE even sell out MSG now a days? Serious question.

[Testicle]

The answer to the last two questions is no.

[Testicle]

Actually I believe that the E sold out one of their Garden house shows about 1.5 years ago and it was a big deal as it was the first time in a while they had sold it out.

[Hanso Amore]

A Better Thread would be if ECW at its peak could have done it. I think they would have had a MUCH better chance.

[Hanso Amore]

I bet ECW in its prime would max out at 10 thousand at MSG.

[Indifferent Clox]

CdLCD soundsystem sold out MSG.5 days in a row.

[Xero]

Hmm. I was going to come in here and talk about how ECW was never on the level of TNA. And money-wise, exposure and promotional power, they aren't. However, I decided to look up ECW on TNN's ratings, and they aren't really far off from TNA's.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/ecw/ecwtnn.htm

<table border="3" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="3"><tbody><tr><td>Date</td><td>Rating</td></tr> <tr><td>August 27, 1999</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>September 3, 1999</td><td>1.0</td></tr> <tr><td>September 10, 1999</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>September 17, 1999</td><td>0.7</td></tr> <tr><td>September 24, 1999</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>October 1, 1999</td><td>0.7</td></tr> <tr><td>October 8, 1999</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>October 15, 1999</td><td>1.2</td></tr> <tr><td>October 22, 1999</td><td>1.2</td></tr> <tr><td>October 29, 1999</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>November 5, 1999</td><td>1.1</td></tr> <tr><td>November 12, 1999</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>November 19, 1999</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>November 26, 1999</td><td>1.1</td></tr> <tr><td>December 3, 1999</td><td>1.0</td></tr> <tr><td>December 10, 1999</td><td>1.2</td></tr> <tr><td>December 17, 1999</td><td>1.0</td></tr> <tr><td>December 24, 1999</td><td>1.1</td></tr> <tr><td>December 31, 1999</td><td>0.9</td></tr> </tbody></table> 2000
<table border="3" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="3"><tbody><tr><td>Date</td><td>Rating</td></tr> <tr><td>January 7, 2000</td><td>1.2</td></tr> <tr><td>January 14, 2000 </td><td>1.2</td></tr> <tr><td>January 21, 2000 </td><td>1.3</td></tr> <tr><td>January 28, 2000</td><td>1.0</td></tr> <tr><td>February 4, 2000 </td><td>1.0</td></tr> <tr><td>February 11, 2000</td><td>1.1</td></tr> <tr><td>February 18, 2000</td><td>1.2</td></tr> <tr><td>February 25, 2000</td><td>1.1</td></tr> <tr><td>March 3, 2000</td><td>1.3</td></tr> <tr><td>March 10, 2000</td><td>1.1</td></tr> <tr><td>March 17, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>March 24, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>March 31, 2000</td><td>1.1</td></tr> <tr><td>April 7, 2000</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>April 14, 2000</td><td>1.1</td></tr> <tr><td>April 21, 2000</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>April 28, 2000</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>May 5, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>May 12, 2000</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>May 19, 2000</td><td>0.7</td></tr> <tr><td>May 26, 2000 </td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>June 2, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>June 9, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>June 16, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>June 23, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>June 30, 2000</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>July 7, 2000</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>July 14, 2000</td><td>0.7</td></tr> <tr><td>July 21, 2000</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>July 28, 2000</td><td>1.0</td></tr> <tr><td>August 4, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>August 11, 2000</td><td>0.9</td></tr> <tr><td>August 18, 2000</td><td>1.0</td></tr> <tr><td>August 25, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>September 1, 2000</td><td>1.0</td></tr> <tr><td>September 8, 2000</td><td>1.0</td></tr> <tr><td>September 15, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>September 22, 2000</td><td>0.8</td></tr> <tr><td>September 29, 2000</td><td>0.7</td></tr> <tr><td>October 6, 2000</td><td>0.6</td></tr></tbody></table>

Now, no, I don't think ECW could have done it, just thought this was interesting to note. They fluctuated a lot more, but they averaged about a .9, maybe .3 points off from TNA's average.

[Kane Knight]

If they promoted the hell out of it, hyping the big names that people know from WWE and Sting... I don't see why not.


Pattern recognition for one.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well I was thinking best case scenario including hiring some people who know what they're doing to get the ball rolling on hyping this one show a long time in advance. Obviously, in it's current state, there's no way they could do it.

[Xero]

Best case scenario they'd take over WWE and sell out stadiums every week.

But that isn't going to happen.

[Testicle]

ECW's biggest crowd was in Chicago in 1999 of about ~7000 people. They maybe could have gotten 10K in New York around that time, and either way I think that it would out draw TNA.

[#1-norm-fan]

Best case realistic scenario...

[Testicle]

Best case scenario they'd take over WWE and sell out stadiums every week.

But that isn't going to happen.

Wrestlemania: 70,000 people and 1,000,000 PPV buys

Bound for Glory: 3,500 people and 10,000 PPV buys

That puts it in perspective for anyone that believes TNA is competition to WWE. Honestly there is no comparison.

[Jordan]

Vince McMahon and probably his dad is the only wrestling promoter who can sell out MSG.... this is a guestament but I bet it's the troof.

[Jordan]

TNA makes me sad

[Xero]

It would take TNA maybe a year or two, with very strong booking and MULTIPLE first-time, epic storylines/matches to do this. They'd need to realistically gut the writing team and pretty much reboot the promotion.

It COULD be done, but it's not going to happen because of Dixie Carter's loyalties.

[#1-norm-fan]

Vince McMahon and probably his dad is the only wrestling promoter who can sell out MSG.... this is a guestament but I bet it's the troof.

So WCW couldn't have sold out MSG?

[tjmidnight420]

Well I was thinking best case scenario including hiring some people who know what they're doing to get the ball rolling on hyping this one show a long time in advance. Obviously, in it's current state, there's no way they could do it.

When he says well in advance, he means start now and in a few years see where they're at.

So WCW couldn't have sold out MSG?

Personally I think this would be a much better topic of discussion for this whole thread. WCW: maybe. TNA: Ain't gonna happen sunshine.

[Xero]

WCW in 97/98 absolutely could have filled MSG. Even if they had to give away tickets. If they could fill the Georgia Dome to 40k, they could have filled the Garden.

Pre-90s, I don't know, only because promotions were so regional. WWF probably had a lock pre-90s and X would be right. But WCW in its heyday? Absolutely. I know WCW ran the other, similarly sized arenas in the area (Meadowlands and Nassau). I can't find attendance for WCW that would include that, but I'm sure they pulled 15-20k.

[Xero]

WWF did have a lock on the Garden up to probably mid-00s. A big part of that, especially pre-97, was that WWF was running the Garden really regularly, up to monthly.

But I wonder if they'd have that kind of pull now. WWE did pull out of some shows because it was so expensive to run (a SummerSlam a few years ago was slated for the Garden, I think, but was pulled) and had about a year, maybe more where they didn't run the Garden at all.

I wonder, if a promotion got to WWE's size in, say, 3 years time (I know, unlikely, but hypothetically) that WWE would have the pull to say no. I'm going to bet no and another promotion would run the Garden probably for the first time ever.

HAS any other promotion run the Garden? I know WCW ran the Theater, but that doesn't count.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah, WCW could have sold it out without a doubt. I just kinda asked that as a response to the McMahons being the only promoters who could sell it out. Definitely not the case.

[Kane Knight]

Well I was thinking best case scenario including hiring some people who know what they're doing to get the ball rolling on hyping this one show a long time in advance. Obviously, in it's current state, there's no way they could do it.

Best case scenario seems to rely on a miracle.

They'd have to completely reinvent themselves, build a base, and fight the uphill battle of being seen as the poor man's WWE in an environment where WWE is having trouble drawing in new fans.

They have almost literally everything working against them, not just themselves.

[Lock Jaw]

They need to reboot TNA. Have a CRISIS IN INFINITE RINGS mega-epic event that results in (kayfabe) the entire world being reset.

[Emperor Smeat]

Rebooting might end up being a worse problem than just making a gradual change or at least just firing the writing/booking team since the company is barely 10 years old and it could cause investors or advertisers to pull out if they think the company is collapsing.

It didn't work for WCW and they rebooted a couple of times with the last one never taking place.

[Kane Knight]

They need to reboot TNA. Have a CRISIS IN INFINITE RINGS mega-epic event that results in (kayfabe) the entire world being reset.

Hopefully they kill off Sting in the reboot.

[Testicle]

Could WCW have sold out the Garden?

If they thought they could have sold out the Garden, they would've run it. There is a reason they never went there.

The only time (to my knowledge) WCW ever drew 20,000 people was in Georgia. Even up into the 2000s wrestling was/is very regional. Even though WCW kicked the crap out of the E in the ratings, the WWF always out drew them on tv and on house shows. I doubt that WCW, even at their absolute peak, could sell out the Garden.

Wrestling promoters aren't dumb. If they could sell out MSG and make a huge gate, they would have done it.

[Testicle]

Xero pointed out that WCW was successful in other areas in the north east. And I remember that they drew 17,000ish in Detroit. So I guess it is possible that they could do it. Once again, they had a much better shot than TNA.

[Xero]

WCW couldn't run the Garden. The WWF had exclusive rights to it. I'm not sure if it was an official contract or not, but WWF definitely had some deal in place that kept other promotions out.

[Testicle]

Well nvm that shit.

[Xero]

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[captaincharismark]

For the most part, TNA only goes to the smaller venues. So to even suggest going to MSG being an option for them is ridiculous. TNA doesn't even have a third of the audience WWE does, so even the idea of them embarassing themselves is laughable. Some of their tickets sales are so bad they have to cancel the events. Could you imagine how pissed the fans would be if TNA attempt that at MSG???

[Jaded-Dragon]

There is a 4500 seat arena in my area. First time TNA had run in Maryland, and even with the highest rated sports talk show in the DMV promoting it, it wasn't even half full.

No way they are selling out MSG.

[Droford]

I know TNA is moving towards doing 1 taping a month outside of Orlando, and hopefully that will help. I also think it would be a lot better for them ratings wise if they didnt tape so much in advance because of spoilers, but thats obviously not going to change.

Im interested in how many people show up tonight at the Delaware State Fair..Its only like 2-3,000 capacity and the area is actually pretty decent drawing for wrestling historically between WCW and WWE.

[FourFifty]

Can some one cue up Vince McMahon's theme music?

Seriously, let's take the WWE loyal crowd out of the picture, and just look at it as an arena. Just as a number, no, they can't. They're not big enough, not well known enough, and who wants to pay for nose bleed seats to see a bunch of guys no one gives a shit about, a crazy Hardy Boy, and a main event scene dominated by stars they could see on Coliseum Home Video or WWE Classics on Demand.

[Lock Jaw]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3sTvcSMUnZA/0.jpg

[Rollermacka]

I know that TNA doesn't have a real chance of selling out MSG, but do you think they could do a venue that big a still turn a profit? I'm thinking if they use Hulk Hogan to promote the shit out of it, they get Juvi or Psychosis (recognizable luchadores who still wrestle in mexico) dust off the old mask/ costume, and use "Sting" money to get and promote a Goldberg (give him time to get into full wrestling shape) return I think they could turn a profit

[Ruien]

I know that TNA doesn't have a real chance of selling out MSG, but do you think they could do a venue that big a still turn a profit? I'm thinking if they use Hulk Hogan to promote the shit out of it, they get Juvi or Psychosis (recognizable luchadores who still wrestle in mexico) dust off the old mask/ costume, and use "Sting" money to get and promote a Goldberg (give him time to get into full wrestling shape) return I think they could turn a profit

The thing is, no matter what kind of star power they have they don't have the WWE name. They could literally have the whole WWE roster, but they would still not be able to sell out MSG. Until the name TNA is popular in America (In a positive way) they have no chance in holding any bigger venues.

[Malfeitor]

"Can TNA sell out Madison Square Garden?"

http://files.sharenator.com/lawrence_office_space_RE_if_you_had_3_3_billion_dollars_what_would_you_do_with_it-s498x263-47204.jpg

On a serious note, even if they had the right promotional materials, the huge star power, etc. I don't think it'd make any difference. As everyone else in this thread has stated.

[Kane Knight]

I know that TNA doesn't have a real chance of selling out MSG, but do you think they could do a venue that big a still turn a profit? I'm thinking if they use Hulk Hogan to promote the shit out of it, they get Juvi or Psychosis (recognizable luchadores who still wrestle in mexico) dust off the old mask/ costume, and use "Sting" money to get and promote a Goldberg (give him time to get into full wrestling shape) return I think they could turn a profit


I think the odds are long against, especially since most of that "Sting" money seems to be diminishing returns.

TNA is still in the business of giving away tickets, and it's going to be a long time before they can get away with selling a profitable margin of tickets in a venue that large. Assuming they do everything right, or even most things, because I doubt even the best company can make all the right steps.

[BigDaddyCool]

than can't even sell out their core beliefs.

[Haze]

I'm not sure they could sell out the garden, even if they were dreaming about selling out the garden.

[Kane Knight]

than can't even sell out their core beliefs.

Wouldn't they have to HAVE some first?

[Fox]

WWE last had a sell-out in MSG on November 16, 2009 for a live episode of RAW which featured Undertaker & John Cena vs. DX vs. Jeri-Show in a triple threat tag match, and very little else.


Again, I don't think that it's impossible for TNA to sell out MSG (and not in the logic of "well, ANYTHING is possible..."), but I think it's a long, long, long shot, and they would require very specific pieces to fit into place for this to happen.

Making comparisons that TNA does house shows outside of Orlando that don't sell out with the idea of trying to work MSG doesn't really make sense. I'm sure that they did their best to promote their little house shows in Whereverville, Indiana, but definitely not on the kind of scale that they would need to promote for TNA in MSG. I'm talking about a year plus of all-out promotion.

But they would need something to promote. That's the thing. WWE can sell out Madison Square Garden based on their name alone - if WCW had the rights to MSG back during the Attitude Era, they would most certainly have sold out, no question about it (people seem to forget just how freaking HUGE WCW was in 1998). But TNA doesn't have that name recognition, and it would probably take 10 more years of really solid programming to get even close to the WWE.

So, they need a main event. If TNA had a Rocky Balboa VS Clubber Lang type of main event to promote for a year, they would be in a much better position for MSG. But they don't. No match-up on the roster has a big time feel to it. The biggest name they have is Hulk Hogan, and the son of a bitch can't wrestle anymore.