Anyone else can't stand WWE marks?

[blake639raw]

Just thought I'd post this. I really can't stand Vince McMahon. I had quit watching wrestling altogether for a while after the way he handled the invasion thing. He could have waited to sign bigger names. And his boys HAD to look superior even though, technically, they were now all HIS boys. I mean it's not like they were actually competitors any longer. After buying WCW out and buying copyrights to ECW, he could have at least been more respectful to their fans and had them on a somewhat equal basis, considering that a lot of their fans and overall wrestling fans at that time (not just WWE marks) were upset still over their downfalls. Really petty juvenile attitude. Also, the fact that he steals so many ideas that I don't think he deserves NEAR the credit he receives. Don't get me wrong, I know what he's done for the business. But pushing an already established AWA star (Hogan) with more exposure on a larger network by turning him face and mass marketing WWF ice cream and s**t still isn't that creative. Neither was stealing their 'attitude' from ECW. Oh, and he got bigname celebrities at Wrestle Mania. Wow! I'll admit, he IS a good promoter and businessman. But everyone knows the only reason Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels succeeded was b/c of the steroid trial and Vinnie Mac needed to change his company's image. Vinnie nuts over big guys. NWA probably would have made it bigger sooner or later, even if it weren't for the whole Hogan Rock-N-Wrestling era anyway. My little brother watches it all the time, so I got back into it because of him more. I still like TNA better than WWE, though. It's a cool alternative. Been getting a lot better in the last few weeks. I also want to provide this link, giving more reasons why McMahon SUCKS.

http://www.angelfire.com/id/DeGenerationXrulz/McMahon.html

[bradscott6997]

Just thought I'd post this. I really can't stand Vince McMahon. I had quit watching wrestling altogether for a while after the way he handled the invasion thing. He could have waited to sign bigger names. And his boys HAD to look superior even though, technically, they were now all HIS boys. I mean it's not like they were actually competitors any longer. After buying WCW out and buying copyrights to ECW, he could have at least been more respectful to their fans and had them on a somewhat equal basis, considering that a lot of their fans and overall wrestling fans at that time (not just WWE marks) were upset still over their downfalls. Really petty juvenile attitude. Also, the fact that he steals so many ideas that I don't think he deserves NEAR the credit he receives. Don't get me wrong, I know what he's done for the business. But pushing an already established AWA star (Hogan) with more exposure on a larger network by turning him face and mass marketing WWF ice cream and s**t still isn't that creative. Neither was stealing their 'attitude' from ECW. Oh, and he got bigname celebrities at Wrestle Mania. Wow! I'll admit, he IS a good promoter and businessman. But everyone knows the only reason Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels succeeded was b/c of the steroid trial and Vinnie Mac needed to change his company's image. Vinnie nuts over big guys. NWA probably would have made it bigger sooner or later, even if it weren't for the whole Hogan Rock-N-Wrestling era anyway. My little brother watches it all the time, so I got back into it because of him more. I still like TNA better than WWE, though. It's a cool alternative. Been getting a lot better in the last few weeks. I also want to provide this link, giving more reasons why McMahon SUCKS.

http://www.angelfire.com/id/DeGenerationXrulz/McMahon.html

This was not blake639's post. For some reason, there was a screwup, and I was logged in under the wrong account name, my younger brother's.

[Ferocious]

This was not blake639's post. For some reason, there was a screwup, and I was logged in under the wrong account name, my younger brother's.I'd have let people think it was him

[Shaggy]

It wouldnt matter if Vince would of waited to sign the biggest names in the history of wrestling for the whole Invasion angle. WWE still would of looked better. Because you are bringing a different brand into your also means that they are coming into a different crowd. Sure they might of all be WCW and ECW fans at one point but with them invading it was a sure way to turn the fans on against them. The only one that it didnt work for was RVD. No matter what he was he still got cheered.

[bradscott6997]

It wouldnt matter if Vince would of waited to sign the biggest names in the history of wrestling for the whole Invasion angle. WWE still would of looked better. Because you are bringing a different brand into your also means that they are coming into a different crowd. Sure they might of all be WCW and ECW fans at one point but with them invading it was a sure way to turn the fans on against them. The only one that it didnt work for was RVD. No matter what he was he still got cheered.
Yeah, I know I could have swore a lot of overall fans wanted to see this battle for a long time. They could have done twenty million things different than they did. If you say it wouldn't have made a difference no matter who they brought in, you probably think WWE is the whole wrestling world and you probably are one of those people to who it wouldn't have made a difference. There are so many 'interpromotional' dream matches people would have paid big to see. A lot of people quit watching altogether when WCW went out. This could have been an attempt to draw some of those fans back. McMahon still had that to hell with everyone else competive nature about him anyway though (I seem to recall Bischoff knealing at his feet at a later point in the WWE). The angle could have been a LOT more successful than it was. Anyway, my main point was that McMahon is scum. Did any of you read the link I gave? I tend to believe it when too many things add up. McMahon is a good businessman. Like I said though, the MAIN things that brought him money were the popularity of Austin, Hogan, The Rock, etc. in their respective time periods. NONE were really his idea.

[bradscott6997]

I meant how long did Benoit have to be there before he got his shot? And I won't even get into Jericho. Austin, Hogan, and The Rock were obvious as hell to push, but there are so many who have had the crap scrubbed out of them while Vince has gotten off on his big guy fetish with A Train and Nathan Jones.

[Rock Bottom]

LoL, you need to relax. Vince McMahon is not scum. Get therapy. And LoL at the "my little brother's name" thing.

[bradscott6997]

LoL, you need to relax. Vince McMahon is not scum. Get therapy. And LoL at the "my little brother's name" thing. It's true. That was my brother that posted it.

[blake639raw]

LOL, the post above mine was actually by me, but my brother was still logged on. I need to start checking for that shit.

[Loose Cannon]

You two remind me of the Beverly Brothers. Beau and Blake, except Brad and Blake now.

Brad and Blake: Beverly Brothers 2004

[Kane Knight]

At least they're not getting shot in the stomach.

[Boondock Saint]

At least they're not getting shot in the stomach.

:eek:

[bradscott6997]

I wasn't trying to come off so angry sounding. And no matter what you may think of me, the link I provided was someone totally different (other than me) who just agreed with what I've been saying. I don't care what I said earlier. Everyone can say stupid shit once in a while. I still feel the same way. I'm not knocking anyone for liking the WWE, despite what it may have sounded like. Could someone at least counter these points if I'm wrong. Read the link, before commenting.

1. The Dr. D David Schultz incident

2.The Pat Patterson incident (mentioned on linked page)

3. Rena Mero lawsuit

4. Bret Hart screwjob

5. the way he handled the invasion angle.

6. As far as credit goes, most of the ideas that made him money were not his. There are other promoter's who had to work their way up. He was born into money. He gets credit for pushing obvious choices a blind man could see(Austin, Hogan, The Rock, etc.). Many with potential (Raven, Jericho, Ultimo Dragon, Mike Awesome, etc.) have been held back after he stole them from competition and did really nothing with them. At the same time, I do realize what he's done and respect it, but as far as the creative part, and certain other aspects, I don't believe for a second that someone else couldn't have done better in certain ways.

7. If not for the whole steroid incident, I honestly don't know if people like HBK or Bret would have ever made it to the top of the card in the WWF. I may be wrong, but just humor me and tell me. Ric Flair was already established from the NWA and doesn't count.

Look, I'm just going on a combination of many things I've heard, know, or seen on tv. If I'm wrong, tell me.

[KingofOldSchool]

At least they're not getting shot in the stomach.

Or having a miscarriage. :naughty:

[Rock Bottom]

6. As far as credit goes, most of the ideas that made him money were not his. There are other promoter's who had to work their way up. He was born into money. He gets credit for pushing obvious choices a blind man could see(Austin, Hogan, The Rock, etc.). Many with potential (Raven, Jericho, Ultimo Dragon, Mike Awesome, etc.) have been held back after he stole them from competition and did really nothing with them. At the same time, I do realize what he's done and respect it, but as far as the creative part, and certain other aspects, I don't believe for a second that someone else couldn't have done better in certain ways.

That's really a pretty dumb point to try and make, considering the WCW was practically created based on drawing from former WWE superstars.

Also, are you forgetting, that both WWE champions right now are former WCW, one of them was never even a main-eventer?

Vince is kind of the overseer. He doesn't really think of everything. Austin's big breakthrough came rather unexpectledly. But as did The Rock. You can't, however, fault McMahon for that. I've never heard of McMahon saying he took any credit for those two. And yeah, Vince worked closely with Austin from what I understand... But other than that. The guy won. What the hell do you want.

There were once the big three. WWE won. Why the hell can't the chairman be like, "That's right, bitches, I won."

About the Bret Hart screwjob:

That really kind of made Vince a mega-heel. And don't think for a second that I enjoy the idea of my childhood hero getting screwed out of the title. But if you think about it, it was business. Vince did something because he felt that it was dumb, as anyone should, or wrong rather... To have a WWE superstar, especially as huge as Hart, not job cleanly to their next in line at a PPV, before going to WCW. Michaels was to take over as the top babyface.

Okay, whatever, that can all break down into opinion. But here are some facts:

Vince McMahon is not the devil incarnate for it. It may have been low in the eyes of many, but it doesn't make him the scum of the Earth. He is a business man. He did what he thought was right for his company.

I'm sure in your perfect scope of things, you'd want Bret Hart to go over Michaels clean, and then the title be forfeited before he went to WCW. Vince was in the wrong due to Bret's contract, but, he is by far, not the scum of the Earth.

Wow I am just tacking shit on as I go. About the InVasion angle:

What the hell did you want him to do, bury his own boys? That was like, if anything, not just Vince's ego, but congratulations guys, you worked hard for your company in low times, now enjoy the fruits. The WWE is not going to be able to push every bit of talent they have. I feel strongly, as do others, about the way certain talent is held back. But again, I fail to see how Vince is the scum of the Earth. Let's take a good look.

Chris Benoit: World Heavyweight Champion. You can't complain about that.
Eddie Guerrero: WWE Champion. And guess who helped him win the title? Goldberg, a WCW talent.
Goldberg: I dare you to even say anything about him. He is one of the most terrible workers, and he was from WCW, and he didn't lose a single step from the type of status he recieved in the WCW. His first fuc</>king match, he went over The Rock. A home-grown WWE main-eventer, former champion, and a guy who has broken a nice number of records.
Perry Saturn: MOPPY! That was just ridiculous. But I really doubt McMahon was the brains behind that operation.
Dean Malenko: Malenko was not exactly the youngest, and he is retired now from what I understand. He was awesome in the ring. And the WWE gave him a good run with the Cruiserweight title. Malenko would NOT have made it main event in the WWE.
Rey Mysterio: Rey is currently one of the most over guys on SmackDown! He is not even a main-eventer, but he is as over as one, and the WWE knows that. He's been injured lately I believe. Other than that, they aren't using him too badly. Sure, he is toned down... But everyone is. That's another business decision.
Chavo Guerrero: Current cruiserweight champion who makes pretty quick work out of all his opponents, and he gets good mic time. He has his father as his manager, and he had a big feud with his uncle that helped Eddie develop his newer aspects of his character. Chavo, believe it or not, had a nice role to play in helping get Eddie so over.
Chris Jericho: Currently, he is not being very well used at all, or is he? He deserves the main event. But he's working excellent matches with Christian right now, and helping to elevate Christian. I'm not complaining at all, these two are fantastic together. And let's also not forget who beat both The Rock and Steve Austin is one night to become the first ever, WWE Undisputed Champion. I'm sure Jericho is bitching about that one himself.
Rob Van Dam: He had a pretty solid push when he first came in. He is still way over. They haven't been booking him the best, but he rarely loses a clean match. Rob Van Dam is a household name, and he is in the middle of a decent push on SmackDown! They have him up there with Guerrero as a peer/guy with a common enemy. Keep watching SmackDown, RVD is getting somewhat of a push.
The Dudleyz: The Dudleyz are kind of stale at the moment. But they are feuding with the WWE champion and Rob Van Dam right now. Not too shabby really. WWE gave them a fresh heel turn, and they have carried the tag gold on numerous occasions. WWE's tag division is a little shotty right now, but they are still using them. That tell you anything?
Rhyno: He is a jobber, what can I tell you. But the guy is not that great at all. He fit in MUCH better in ECW, but the WWE fans are never going to care about him. End of story. Rhyno is a decent worker, but he is best for that hardcore type scene, which WWE doesn't have too much of.
Ric Flair: Hi, Ric Flair is a legend, was in quite a few promotions, and never have they buried Flair like the WCW has. They treat him with respect. Why don't you take a look at how Bischoff treated this guy when he was working for WCW.
Hulk Hogan: I'd mention him, but he is home-grown to WWE, really. He is old and past his prime. And he was showcased in Wrestlemania. What else do you want. Former 5-time champ.

If you think of anyone else, by all means. But I still fail to see where Vince is scum, and how he has horribly mismanaged talent. If you wanna bitch about talent talk about Jim Ross (whom I have a great deal of respect for personally, despite his silly commentary) or Johnny Ace. Vince does not oversee every operation. I don't see how you are going to blame him for everything you listed.

[diamondcutter]

That's really a pretty dumb point to try and make, considering the WCW was practically created based on drawing from former WWE superstars.

Also, are you forgetting, that both WWE champions right now are former WCW, one of them was never even a main-eventer?

Vince is kind of the overseer. He doesn't really think of everything. Austin's big breakthrough came rather unexpectledly. But as did The Rock. You can't, however, fault McMahon for that. I've never heard of McMahon saying he took any credit for those two. And yeah, Vince worked closely with Austin from what I understand... But other than that. The guy won. What the hell do you want.

There were once the big three. WWE won. Why the hell can't the chairman be like, "That's right, bitches, I won."

About the Bret Hart screwjob:

That really kind of made Vince a mega-heel. And don't think for a second that I enjoy the idea of my childhood hero getting screwed out of the title. But if you think about it, it was business. Vince did something because he felt that it was dumb, as anyone should, or wrong rather... To have a WWE superstar, especially as huge as Hart, not job cleanly to their next in line at a PPV, before going to WCW. Michaels was to take over as the top babyface.

Okay, whatever, that can all break down into opinion. But here are some facts:

Vince McMahon is not the devil incarnate for it. It may have been low in the eyes of many, but it doesn't make him the scum of the Earth. He is a business man. He did what he thought was right for his company.

I'm sure in your perfect scope of things, you'd want Bret Hart to go over Michaels clean, and then the title be forfeited before he went to WCW. Vince was in the wrong due to Bret's contract, but, he is by far, not the scum of the Earth.

Wow I am just tacking shit on as I go. About the InVasion angle:

What the hell did you want him to do, bury his own boys? That was like, if anything, not just Vince's ego, but congratulations guys, you worked hard for your company in low times, now enjoy the fruits. The WWE is not going to be able to push every bit of talent they have. I feel strongly, as do others, about the way certain talent is held back. But again, I fail to see how Vince is the scum of the Earth. Let's take a good look.

Chris Benoit: World Heavyweight Champion. You can't complain about that.
Eddie Guerrero: WWE Champion. And guess who helped him win the title? Goldberg, a WCW talent.
Goldberg: I dare you to even say anything about him. He is one of the most terrible workers, and he was from WCW, and he didn't lose a single step from the type of status he recieved in the WCW. His first fuc</>king match, he went over The Rock. A home-grown WWE main-eventer, former champion, and a guy who has broken a nice number of records.
Perry Saturn: MOPPY! That was just ridiculous. But I really doubt McMahon was the brains behind that operation.
Dean Malenko: Malenko was not exactly the youngest, and he is retired now from what I understand. He was awesome in the ring. And the WWE gave him a good run with the Cruiserweight title. Malenko would NOT have made it main event in the WWE.
Rey Mysterio: Rey is currently one of the most over guys on SmackDown! He is not even a main-eventer, but he is as over as one, and the WWE knows that. He's been injured lately I believe. Other than that, they aren't using him too badly. Sure, he is toned down... But everyone is. That's another business decision.
Chavo Guerrero: Current cruiserweight champion who makes pretty quick work out of all his opponents, and he gets good mic time. He has his father as his manager, and he had a big feud with his uncle that helped Eddie develop his newer aspects of his character. Chavo, believe it or not, had a nice role to play in helping get Eddie so over.
Chris Jericho: Currently, he is not being very well used at all, or is he? He deserves the main event. But he's working excellent matches with Christian right now, and helping to elevate Christian. I'm not complaining at all, these two are fantastic together. And let's also not forget who beat both The Rock and Steve Austin is one night to become the first ever, WWE Undisputed Champion. I'm sure Jericho is bitching about that one himself.
Rob Van Dam: He had a pretty solid push when he first came in. He is still way over. They haven't been booking him the best, but he rarely loses a clean match. Rob Van Dam is a household name, and he is in the middle of a decent push on SmackDown! They have him up there with Guerrero as a peer/guy with a common enemy. Keep watching SmackDown, RVD is getting somewhat of a push.
The Dudleyz: The Dudleyz are kind of stale at the moment. But they are feuding with the WWE champion and Rob Van Dam right now. Not too shabby really. WWE gave them a fresh heel turn, and they have carried the tag gold on numerous occasions. WWE's tag division is a little shotty right now, but they are still using them. That tell you anything?
Rhyno: He is a jobber, what can I tell you. But the guy is not that great at all. He fit in MUCH better in ECW, but the WWE fans are never going to care about him. End of story. Rhyno is a decent worker, but he is best for that hardcore type scene, which WWE doesn't have too much of.
Ric Flair: Hi, Ric Flair is a legend, was in quite a few promotions, and never have they buried Flair like the WCW has. They treat him with respect. Why don't you take a look at how Bischoff treated this guy when he was working for WCW.
Hulk Hogan: I'd mention him, but he is home-grown to WWE, really. He is old and past his prime. And he was showcased in Wrestlemania. What else do you want. Former 5-time champ.

If you think of anyone else, by all means. But I still fail to see where Vince is scum, and how he has horribly mismanaged talent. If you wanna bitch about talent talk about Jim Ross (whom I have a great deal of respect for personally, despite his silly commentary) or Johnny Ace. Vince does not oversee every operation. I don't see how you are going to blame him for everything you listed.

What about Diamond Dallas Page?

[bradscott6997]

[color=wheat]That's really a pretty dumb point to try and make, considering the WCW was practically created based on drawing from former WWE superstars.

Look, forget about saying he's scum and let me just say I really don't like the way he does things. I wasn't saying WCW was better here. Look, I know practically every promotion takes ideas or talent from elsewhere, but I just really don't get why people consider him a 'creative genius'. If you disagree, fine.


[color=wheat]Also, are you forgetting, that both WWE champions right now are former WCW, one of them was never even a main-eventer?

Yes, and I commend that, but I'm talking about the past more and what he has been doing at times, with people like A-Train being pushed over Benoit. ButI am glad he's FINALLY getting his shot. If he were the size of Brock Lesnar, he would have had it years ago. Wouldn't even have needed talent. Not saying Brock wasn't talented.


[color=wheat]Vince is kind of the overseer. He doesn't really think of everything. Austin's big breakthrough came rather unexpectledly. But as did The Rock. You can't, however, fault McMahon for that. I've never heard of McMahon saying he took any credit for those two. And yeah, Vince worked closely with Austin from what I understand... But other than that. The guy won. What the hell do you want.

There were once the big three. WWE won. Why the hell can't the chairman be like, "That's right, bitches, I won."
Yes, but it looks like petty bragging. Why even do the whole angle with the few people he had from WCW/ECW? It's not like he had enough star power to make the ratings he could have with it, if he waited. It seems to me he just did the whole angle for his own ego. Yeah, the chairman can do that , but I don't care to watch. I was a big fan wrestling in general at the time and I had always wanted to see a battle like this, but the way they did it insulted me, as an overall wrestling fan. If it didn't really bother you, that's fine. It would have been the perfect 'eulogy' so to speak for them to leave on to have that supercard a lot of people had talked about WWF VS. WCW. And if they thrown ECW in, all the better. The angle should NOT have been done like it was, maybe just not at all.

[color=wheat]About the Bret Hart screwjob:

That really kind of made Vince a mega-heel. And don't think for a second that I enjoy the idea of my childhood hero getting screwed out of the title. But if you think about it, it was business. Vince did something because he felt that it was dumb, as anyone should, or wrong rather... To have a WWE superstar, especially as huge as Hart, not job cleanly to their next in line at a PPV, before going to WCW. Michaels was to take over as the top babyface.

Okay, whatever, that can all break down into opinion. But here are some facts:

Vince McMahon is not the devil incarnate for it. It may have been low in the eyes of many, but it doesn't make him the scum of the Earth. He is a business man. He did what he thought was right for his company.

I'm sure in your perfect scope of things, you'd want Bret Hart to go over Michaels clean, and then the title be forfeited before he went to WCW. Vince was in the wrong due to Bret's contract, but, he is by far, not the scum of the Earth.

First off, from what I heard, Bret wouldn't do the job in his hometown or Canada, but he didn't refuse to drop the belt altogether. He just didn't want to do it the way McMahon proposed and who he wanted him to job to. I know Bret can be sort of a prima donna, so to speak, but I was thinking there were other options than what Vince did.










[color=wheat]Goldberg: I dare you to even say anything about him. He is one of the most terrible workers, and he was from WCW, and he didn't lose a single step from the type of status he recieved in the WCW. His first fuc</>king match, he went over The Rock. A home-grown WWE main-eventer, former champion, and a guy who has broken a nice number of records.
You're right, there but Goldberg didn't deserve it. He was a one hit wonder. Don't expect applause from me for them even signing him.



[color=wheat]Chris Jericho: Currently, he is not being very well used at all, or is he? He deserves the main event. But he's working excellent matches with Christian right now, and helping to elevate Christian. I'm not complaining at all, these two are fantastic together. And let's also not forget who beat both The Rock and Steve Austin is one night to become the first ever, WWE Undisputed Champion. I'm sure Jericho is bitching about that one himself.

Jericho is , in my opinion one of the best things they have going on Raw. He should not be helping midcarders get over and jobbing to nobodies. As good as Christian is, he's a midcarder and Jericho should be on another level riight now. Even when he was champion, he didn't get enough chance to shine before Preparation H stepped in and took it away.

[color=wheat]Rob Van Dam: He had a pretty solid push when he first came in. He is still way over. They haven't been booking him the best, but he rarely loses a clean match. Rob Van Dam is a household name, and he is in the middle of a decent push on SmackDown! They have him up there with Guerrero as a peer/guy with a common enemy. Keep watching SmackDown, RVD is getting somewhat of a push.

I don't know what the deal is with RVD right now, but he needs a heel turn or something. I see the old ECW Van Dam as a potential world champ, but this one is too bland and boring. You need more than being a good wrestler alone to make it these days. Bring back the cocky, trashtakin smartass heel ECW fans saw.

I can also think about Raven. If given as shot, he might have gotten over. They scrubbed him like no tomorrow.

Also, what about the steroid thing I mentioned?
What about the Dr. David Schulz incident where McMahon paid Schulz to hit that reporter (who asked if wrestling was real) , telling Schulz he'd back him in court, only to back out when the sh*t hit the fan, so to speak?
What about the Patterson lawsuit mentioned in the link I provided above?

[Kane Knight]

So they currently have ex WCW stars as champions, and that's supposed to erase the way they've done business in the past? What are we, Goldfish?

Not to knock Benoit or Eddie. I'm a massive fan of both.

[Rock Bottom]

Nah, feel how you will about him, I just don't think he is scum.

[The Ravishing One]

Nah, feel how you will about him, I just don't think he is scum.

:y:

[The Ravishing One]

Still wish he was my dad :-\

[Corkscrewed]

Cuz then you'd jerk off to your sister?

J/P :D