How serious do you take your rasslin? 2022 edition

[Shisen Kopf]

Some people are die hards and others are casual fans who watch rasslin occasionally. So what kinda fan are you? I take my rasslin super serious bc it's awesome. Woooooooooooooooooo

[Juan]

So you're dead set on running this shitck into the ground, eh?

[Rammsteinmad]

So you're dead set on running this shitck into the ground, eh?

[Shisen Kopf]

Dude answer the question.

[Pintint]

Casual. I catch a show whenever I can and generally follow by reading results online.

[Rammsteinmad]

I remember the days when Shisen Kopf was funny.

[bigslimjj]

I'd kill a man,or smack a lady over my wrasslin.

[Shisen Kopf]

I don't.

[Fox]

What shtick?

[Ruien]

I remember the days when Shisen Kopf was funny.

When was this?

[Ruien]

Also, very casual about it. Never watch Smackdown and tune into Raw every now and then.

[RiX1024]

Massive fan, except for the fact I can't watch WWE coz I can't afford Sky. I check the news and results online (mainly TPWW) and I have to depend on YouTube if I want to watch shows/segments.

[itsmeJD]

I DVR RAW, never watch Smackdown, and never watch TNA. I stream PPV's if I got nothing going on, and read online about the rest.

[Razzamajazz]

asking this question on a wrestling forum....

[KaosDarksol]

I used to watch Raw every week and Smackdown sometimes, then I lost cable so I just read the results and now even with cable I don't watch either much and usually just look it all up

[SammyG]

R A S S L I N That's rasslin

[XL]

"I don't watch any wrestling and haven't for 5 years. However, I still come to this wrestling forum so that my well-informed opinion may be heard by others."

[Shisen Kopf]

I just realized today that I may take my rasslin more serious than even the Internet because that is serious business. I should be a mod on this forum bc of how super serious I take rasslin and internets. I'm announcing now I'm a candidate for mod Kopf 12 "change is on the way". Woooooooooooo!

[screech]

Watch RAW & SD every week. Mostly on YouTube lately because of work, though.

Haven't been able to follow TNA for a while & haven't seen the "new" ROH yet.

[screech]

So I guess I take my rasslin super serious.

[Shisen Kopf]

That is good to hear screech. Rasslin must be taken super serious or else what's the point. Just ax some of the mods here.

[XL]

Seriously, I watch Raw on Tuesday morning, Impact on Friday morning and Smackdown on Saturday morning. Being in the UK/not having Sky/working nights makes watching live difficult.

As for PPV, I've watched a lot more stuff live this year and if not caught up the next day. Last year I barely watched PPVs.

[Jari]

Pretty casual tbf. I record Raw every Monday, catch the odd PPV, have an interest in the history of the business/people in it and I'm quite willing to defend against those who call it 'fake'.

In saying that I'm not going to follow the WWE around so I can become known as 'The Sign Guy' and I won't be going to any Q&A sessions, breaking down and sobbing whilst shouting "IT'S STILL REAL TO ME, DAMN IT!" so I'm not going to consider myself a hardcore fan.

[XL]

I think there might be some "middle ground" between "casual fan" and "wrestling obsessive".

[ZosoMetalManiac]

If there's a middle ground between casual and obsessive, I think that's where I'd be. I watch Raw every Monday and try to catch the PPVs, but I also stop watching if I'm not interested in what's going on.

[XL]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. But you don't watch SmackDown or TNA? Maybe closer to casual that "middle groud".

[ZosoMetalManiac]

Maybe closer to casual in a sense, but I'm sure I'd watch them if I was home. With the hours I work, I haven't seen Smackdown or TNA in a long time nor do I feel like busting out the VCR to tape them. I generally just read the results for those shows. But, if I read about a good match or segment on one of those shows, YouTube is a good friend.

[Jari]

I think there might be some "middle ground" between "casual fan" and "wrestling obsessive".
Wherever it, that would probably be a more appropriate title for myself.

[Shisen Kopf]

I take it even more serious these days. Very serious indeed.

[dronepool]

I don't take it seriously, can't see myself wearing a wrestling t-shirt or defending it like a favorite band or something.

I enjoy watching RAW and if I miss RAW, it's nothing to panic over - I can watch the highlights on youtube or read the results. I usually catch PPV streams if I'm home. I don't really care for Friday night Smackdown, I'll watch it if I have no plans Friday night even if I read the results- unless it's a really shitty episode or I forget about it.

I basically like coming home from work, smoking pot and watching WWE.

[NormanSmiley]

raw gets dvr'd then i watch the first segment predict in my head what will happen. fast forward to the end.

read smackdown spoilers here

no respect for tna or roh etc

watch alot of youtube vids of past matches and read up on guys careers and backstage stories

[The Naitch]

rassle rassle E

[JKWJRMON]

Watch RAW Every week, and read TPWW.net everyday on the latest gossip!

[Shisen Kopf]

Analysis: The sentiment of the discussion, that spans for over a week, is negative. The discussion is very engaging and very controversial. The users Shisen Kopf, XL, were particularly engaged. It got people interested in the discussion. We find the discussion interesting and original.


The following users won the first, second and third place as most active and engaging users:
1st Place: Shisen Kopf
2nd Place: XL
3rd Place: Jari

[Curd]

I take my wrestling so seriously that I wonder why a bigger wrestler will often Irish whip his smaller opponent into the ropes and then try to grab him or her but get headscissored, when he could have done a slam, DDT, whatever because in the first place he was already in grappling distance. :roll:

I also wonder why a taller opponent will usually go for a clothesline or high elbow strike on a shorter wrestler who easily ducks it when a low kick or drop toe hold would be much more strategic. :|

[ron the dial]

randy, i AM the wrestling.

[Crazy Nick]

I don't take it very seriously. I am a huge fan but it doesn't kill me to miss a show or two if I am busy doing other stuff. I really enjoy it but it doesn't consume me or anything.

[itsmeJD]

As a Jerry Lawler heart attack....i.e. serious enough to tape it, but not serious enough that I wouldn't poke fun of it with friends.

[James Steele]

Let's just say that you all should be happy that Triple H didn't retire at WrestleMania XXIX.

[Bad News Gertner]

Exactly. Heath Slater would have to draw responses for some other over the hill guy.

[Schlomey]

Some people are die hards and others are casual fans who watch rasslin occasionally. So what kinda fan are you? I take my rasslin super serious bc it's awesome. Woooooooooooooooooo

I've been a fan since 1988ish. Maybe a little before that. I'm a die hard even when a month goes by and I don't post here I'm still watching. I've taken breaks over the years. After the invasion angle lost steam I faded away for a few years actually. Missed angle, Eddie, Rey, Benoit and Lesnar at the top but I'm ok with that. That's the only significant gap I can remember. Luckily wi YouTube and streaming services I feel I haven't missed anything of significance ever. I started at the height of wrestling and have lived thru the highs and lowest lows.

I don't get uber emotional and argue like other guys here....I tend to think I'm a smart fan who doesn't need to force my opinions on others but rather do more detailed threads where discussions can have points and launching pads....rather than debate scenarios that will likely or already never happened.....

[Shisen Kopf]

I think I have transcended mere rasslin fandom and am now a rasslin expert of the business of seriousness. Perhaps I am more than a mere mortal. I now need to find Palaestra.

http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Palaistra.html

[Kane Knight]

I think I have transcended mere rasslin fandom and am now a rasslin expert of the business of seriousness. Perhaps I am more than a mere mortal. I now need to find Palaestra.

http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Palaistra.html

Was this triggered by the death of rasslin?

[Shisen Kopf]

Rasslin died last week RIP. But now we can usher in a new epoch guided by the timeless wisdom of fandango.

[Volare]

Fandango is WWE's make it or break it point.

[Providence Peep]

R A S S L I N That's rasslin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV-i-H-Vbew

[TheHaunted]

I think I'm in too deep at this rate when it comes to wrestling, just have to stop myself from being to cynical about it.

[TheHaunted]

Well, I must be a faggot gay then! I do find Kenta quite cute...

[Mongo Lloyd]

Jap rasslin is for faggot gays

careful, youll offend the sensitive closeted homofags here

[Kris P Lettus]

dead
fucking
serious

[LewisTheTruest]

In all seriousness. I catch Raw, Smackdown and Impact online coz I don't have Foxtel (Australia). I have however learnt a valuable lesson; if you didn't grow up watching wrestling you won't like it. I have tried to break down the whole business to adult friends and they won't, understandably, get it.

So yeh I only take my rasslin seriously if there is someone else around I can talk kayfabe with. I'm over trying to explain what a tv show is to other people.

[Shisen Kopf]

This is th best thread ever in the history of here.

[Bad News Gertner]

This is where we finally talked some good ol fashion rasslin

[DAMN iNATOR]

Medium well.

'Bout an 8.7/10

[scatterbrain28]

Jap rasslin is for faggot gays

Let's see here, a bunch of oiled up guys touching each other... XD

[Shisen Kopf]

I think I take my rasslin even more serious today. Like I'm gonna tape Smackdown on Thursday night on UPN.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I think I take my rasslin even more serious today. Like I'm gonna tape Smackdown on Thursday night on UPN.

I hope you like those two episodes of White Collar. :rofl:

[Shisen Kopf]

This is th best thread ever in the history of here.

Yes it is 9/10

[The Naitch]

fucking serious

i take it very serious

just for the record

[Shisen Kopf]

We all should take it seriously or what's the point of posting at a rasslin forum?

[Heisenberg]

Might as well smear poo all over your face if you don't take it seriously. Elbow Drop, mom yelling at me to ERAG after dinner/10

[Bad News Gertner]

The Wrestling Forum needs to be changed to the Rasslin Forum. We need to petition AAA.

[Shisen Kopf]

How about the USA #1 rasslin forum presented by Shisen Kopf? I think as forum champion,or whatever it's called that I'm gonna win, that it's a great idea. Wooooo!

[scatterbrain28]

I take my wrestling so seriously that I wonder why a bigger wrestler will often Irish whip his smaller opponent into the ropes and then try to grab him or her but get headscissored, when he could have done a slam, DDT, whatever because in the first place he was already in grappling distance. :roll:

I also wonder why a taller opponent will usually go for a clothesline or high elbow strike on a shorter wrestler who easily ducks it when a low kick or drop toe hold would be much more strategic. :|

I've wondered similar stuff like how many wrestlers countered a chokeslam with a triangle choke or has any countered a Pedigree with a jacknife pin. And countering a suplex with a cradle, I've seen that in a few overseas matches. And the triangle choke thing I've seen in a couple of indy matches.


As for how much I watch, I've been watching RAW and Smackdown since Survivor Series 99 and took a break in 2008 when it suffered creatively. Watched casualy for a year before watching a full RAW after Summerslam this year and now I'm digging it. But I rarely catch Smackdown, 3 hrs. is enough for me.

[The Naitch]

Is John Cena still THE CHAMP?

[Shisen Kopf]

I think so.

[Shisen Kopf]

2015 check in. I think I take my rasslin pretty serious these days but not as super serious as I did in 2012.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I've bumped up my level of seriousness from SRS BSNSS to "Wrasslin' is super-duper über cereal, OK?!"

From about 8.7 - about 9.25/10 over the past 2 years.

[Sixx]

Serious enough to rub one out whenever I watch.

[Damndirty]

I am a hardcore fan, at least I was when I had satellite television. Truthfully, I hate having to read results because the opinion of the reporter can at times cloud my judgement on the matches before and sometimes after I see them on Youtube, but the anxious fan in me keeps me from waiting to know regardless. There were several instances where the matches and skits were far better to me than what the reporters were painting them to be. All things considering, I am a fan enough to bitch when the show really isn't fulfilling my expectations and piss myself when they exceed them. Lord, I'm pathetic....

[Shisen Kopf]

even more serious than ever. Wooooo rasslin!

[Shisen Kopf]

Going to Rasslemania so I'm super serious about rasslin again.

[Outsider]

I watch RAW, Smackdown and NXT every week and every PPV. Traveled to the other end of the country to watch the UK Title Tournament and watch local indy shows as well.

But at the same time I don't watch TNA or any of the other US indies, mostly due to lack of coverage in the UK combined with a lack of time.

So reasonably seriously I would guess.

[Shisen Kopf]

One end of the UK to the other end is what? 100 miles?!

[Swiss Ultimate]

I regularly drive 300 miles for work. Thank goodness texting and driving is still legal here.

[Destor]

Virtually everything i loved about wrestling is gone. So about 2% serious. Even puro has been driven into the ground

[Swiss Ultimate]

I like a good underdog still. I really enjoyed Daniel Bryan's title chase years back.

[Shisen Kopf]

I like a good underdog story too. Like even though Kevin Owens is mentally retarded and fat he still became Champion of the Universe

[Outsider]

One end of the UK to the other end is what? 100 miles?!

It was a 450 mile/9 hour round trip.

It's not that far, but traveling that far North also involves going back in time 30 years.

[Lock Jaw]

6/10 on the serious scale

[Shisen Kopf]

NO FUCKING DICK FLIPS

[Droford]

NO FUCKING DICK FLIPS

Stop no selling powerbombs through tables off ladders

[RP]

I'll kill a man if they talk bad about Alexa Bliss.

[Shisen Kopf]

I'll kill a man if they talk bad about Alexa Bliss.

Me too. She's so hot

[Shisen Kopf]

2020 check in. It's still real to me dammit

[XL]

We’ve guys arguing about ratings on Christmas Day. TPWW very serious about wrestling.

[screech]

Ratings are very serious business, evidently.

[Shisen Kopf]

i like that Riddle guy. I dont really follow rasslin that much anymore but I like his gimmick that he is a stoner and he forgets to put his boots on.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I have lost track of what Chad Gable is doing.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don’t like what wrestling has “evolved” into. It’s not a evolution, it’s an unnecessary deviation into trivialization. I miss guys calling matches in the ring and making things seem organic. That’s “better” to me than everyone trying to go out there and dance their little hearts out.

AEW sucks. It’s not good television. At its core, WWE has some stuff they do really well, but I don’t know how people can watch whole shows anymore. I hope something they eventually change is the emphasis they put on shows. You can still break them into clips for YouTube, it’s just that the television packaging would be better.

I’m hungry for something resembling the wrestling I cared about to come back. I think it will have to come from WWE expanding though. My latest hope is that when the TV deals are up, WWE will want to get as many networks/streaming services on side as possible, so they dig deep and generate more content with a different flavor to it. Maybe they send Cody Rhodes to run a revived WCW or something? I dunno, just a pipe-dream.

Maybe a scandal pushes The Rock to create something with Disney/ABC? Right now it seems that he’d just waltz into WWE though. But maybe an Amazon Prime or someone who feels like they miss out on WWE deals next round throw their own hat into the ring? Come on wrestling, something needs to happen.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Maybe Freddie Prinze, Jr. will actually get his show on the CW Network or something?

[xrodmuc316]

Much less serious now than before a 43 year old MMA failure was made a World Champion, then injured himself trying to dive into a crowd :shifty:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I used to tell myself I really want wrestling to get better. I wonder how much of that is “habit” though? Because I catch myself wondering if I even give a shit. We deserve what we get. Fuck it. Let it all burn. Maybe once the earth is scorched something can grow in 50 years or something?

I dunno. It makes me sad to think I’ve given up. But I might just be stubborn in trying to convince myself that I haven’t.

Only genuine joy I get from modern wrestling are podcasts about better times and looking up the history.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I was fucking wrestling obsessed and would catch fucking Heat and Velocity. Now you couldn’t pay me to sit around and watch it all. I’d go fucking insane because it’s gotten so bad. And we’re all supposed to just pretend that it’s stellar. Have another Young Bucks match, watch Kenny Omega overperform and underdeliver, here’s another weak sauce champion that can’t throw a punch delivering another dramatic monologue that reminds you it’s all fake and they’re not even trying.

Wrestling just gets more and more insulting of its audience. It’s not just WWE either. Everyone wants to tell you that God isn’t real and then pass around the collection plate. And it’s considered bad manners to point out that it’s a cult and it’s not even good at recruiting.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s like community theatre. If you see something that could almost be considered professional, you’re allowed to laud it. But when the old woman with one tone to her voice gets up and puts everyone to sleep, you’re not supposed to say it’s fucking awful.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh, and the critics are “out of touch” and don’t get it. Meanwhile the most popular wrestling on television is the WWE and they’re the only people turning a profit.

Wrestling is the only form of entertainment I can think of that has claimed to evolve by running off 90% of its audience.

[Mr. Nerfect]

People would watch it if it were good. It’s in people’s DNA to be drawn to conflict. Wrestling is almost a primal example of that. But everyone gets it so fucking wrong by putting so many fucking obstacles between what they’re trying to achieve.

[Lock Jaw]

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[Mr. Nerfect]

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This. Except for the part about pro-wrestling being “it.”

[Destor]

i loved wrestling for decades. its reasonable to say it was the great love of my life. i certainly sacrificed more for it than anything else. but now its like seeing an ex but when you see them not only do you not see what you loved burried under the layers but instead shes become the kind of person the two of you used to laugh at together.
its a betrayal on top of the heart break. you want to miss her but the her she was is never coming back. nostalgia literally means "our pain." im very nostalgic for wrestling.

[Bad News Gertner]

It's great that we live in a time where there's literally any wrestling from any era at your fingertips. Don't like current wrestling? No problem. Don't like AEW or WWE? No problem. It's really great.

[Lock Jaw]

By the end of my rassling viewing I was seeing it as like being in an abusive relationship. You only stick with it because you think of the better times, all that investment you already made into the relationship, "maybe it can change", "it isn't all bad, every now and then it has a moment".....

Glad I finally had the courage to leave

[Destor]

youre both right thouvh

[Bad News Gertner]

Especially for someone like me who started watching WWF in 87 and had no idea WCW existed until 95ish. I'm pretty sure I saw my first USWA and Smoky Mountain show before my first WCW if you can believe that.


I had NO idea who Ric Flair was when he came into the WWF in 91. But now I can watch all the stuff I missed out on. I still probably watch between 5-7 hours a week including the watchalong.

[Destor]

there's not a lot of new out there for me. most enjoyment i get is watching kid's tapes for feedback. and i do enjoy that. its all raw potential. it could become anything. seeing their work take shape over time. that's still interesting to me.

[XL]

Destor, I’ve got just the thread for you.

Have you heard of Chris Arruda?

[Mr. Nerfect]

i loved wrestling for decades. its reasonable to say it was the great love of my life. i certainly sacrificed more for it than anything else. but now its like seeing an ex but when you see them not only do you not see what you loved burried under the layers but instead shes become the kind of person the two of you used to laugh at together.
its a betrayal on top of the heart break. you want to miss her but the her she was is never coming back. nostalgia literally means "our pain." im very nostalgic for wrestling.

By the end of my rassling viewing I was seeing it as like being in an abusive relationship. You only stick with it because you think of the better times, all that investment you already made into the relationship, "maybe it can change", "it isn't all bad, every now and then it has a moment".....

Glad I finally had the courage to leave

Great posts.

It's great that we live in a time where there's literally any wrestling from any era at your fingertips. Don't like current wrestling? No problem. Don't like AEW or WWE? No problem. It's really great.

It’s surreal how technology has given contemporaneous life to classic content.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Your disposition and recent Manami Toyota gif have encouraged me to take a stroll through some of Toyota’s stuff. Maybe I’ll get sucked into an actually good joshi cycle?

[Fignuts]

Mid 80's to late 90's AJW is peak women's wrestling.

It's never come close to that since, and likely never will.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’ve seen a fair bit of stuff. I haven’t gone back for a while, so my appreciation is probably going to be deeper. I’ve never really engaged with the “story” of it all as much as I could either.

I started with Manami Toyota vs. Akita Hokuto - September 2, 1995 (The Destiny Climax). I found a good write-up on it too. Hokuto was known for plowing through some insane injuries. She broke her neck off a second-rope Tombstone and continued the match essentially holding her head in place. Toyota always fascinates me to watch because she’s such a pure babyface (to me), but she’s got this scrappy, desperate viciousness and this edge to her that you don’t see from everyone else. Sometimes I can kind of see it in Hiroshi Tanahashi, actually.

This is the match where the gif of Toyota doing the springboard crossbody came from. She’s fucking sublime. Watching this (possibly again), it’s pretty obvious this is what Okada vs. Omega wants to be. Now, I’m judging that off the first match in their series, and I liked that match enough even as someone who doesn’t like Omega.

Toyota and Hokuto actually do wrestle each with their own “strategy.” It isn’t psychology like you would traditionally see in the West, but I can grab onto it way more now than I may have a decade ago. They’re telling this story that Hokuto is better hold-for-hold. Every exchange (at least where I got to before I got interrupted), sees Hokuto getting the better of Toyota. So then what Toyota does is pick up the speed, run really fast, and KICKS HOKUTO IN THE FUCKING FACE!!! Time after time. She’s kind of being an annoying little shit about it. But she’s even got a table out at this point (which may have happened all the time in AJW for all I know), which also makes me think to the first Omega/Okada match.

As I said, I got interrupted. So I’m nor giving a full review here, but I’ll go back and finish it now. Talking about it actually gets me excited for it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hokuto’s powerbombs are so fucking gorgeous. They look like they’re going to start off as piledrivers, but then she fucking snaps them right around and it’s like they’re broken in half, damn it.

I should have watched this all in one go. Hokuto is selling her back for some reason, and I can’t remember how. I’m not saying it is a floor in the match, but I’m like “You’re selling YOUR back?! After what Tanami has been through?”

I think it would have been such beautiful poetic justice if Hokuto succeeded at putting Toyota through the table on their second go with it. But I might be thinking like an ignorant westerner.

Joshi slapping each other in the face is way better than the forearm exchange cliche we see today.

Even the way these women go after the hair has got a flavor to it. There’s a simple fucking hairmare that sees a a head spiked into the ground.

There’s a point in the match where a trainer is rubbing Toyota’s back. The referee basically dumps them both back in the ring. There’s these instant reaction I have to it that reminds me of how hard these women are pushing themselves for bullshit entertainment, but if it was a deliberate choice…it’s kind of effective for really being this great framing of the joshi mentality.

[Fignuts]

Her matches against Aja Kong and Toshiyo Yamada are her best work, imo.

[Fignuts]

That "desperate viciousness" you mentioned is something that a lot of modern joshi stars try to emulate, but none of them do it as well as Toyota.

Mayu Iwatani has moments where she comes close.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’ve seen Toyota and Kong a lot. I’m going to have to go back.

I was just thinking about what I love about Toyota. I think it’s something that jarred me when I was younger, because I’m so used to the American presentation of wrestling and the babyface/heel dynamic.

Toyota works her ass off, gets tied up, bombed, thrown about, etc. But she never carries herself too sympathetically. There’s always something about her manner that reminds me, anyway, that she picked this fight and she is very likely getting exactly what she wants out of it. And I can think of so many reasons this is smarter than conventional “live and die with me” methods.

Firstly, it adds a level of reality. She can seem a little smug at time. A really great athlete would be. It’s also less “doe-eyed.” Whether that would be a choice because she wants herself and AJW to be taken seriously, or if it’s primarily because the reality of a top fighter ALWAYS getting their ass handed to them and acting like it’s the biggest tragedy ever is just unrealistic. She’s got a way more nuanced and engaging persona overall because of it, I think.

It also keeps in mind her opponents, making them look good and like top athletes themselves that you don’t pigeon-hole into being a these total assholes for beating you up in the context of a wrestling match.

And look — I’m sure the women are aware of the fetishistic quality to whatever it is they can present. I would not put it past a lot of these women to understand that the sadomasochism of a personality that gets so vicious and willing to take as well as give probably made a lot of Japanese businessmen very happy.

[Fignuts]

Well now they lean really hard into the fetishist aspects, and thats part of why its not as good.

Back then the main demographic was young girls. So a lot of talent had aspired to be wrestlers from a young age, and came from athletic backgrounds.

You still get that today, but more often than not, they're failed idols whose agents recommended pro wrestling for their next venture. Admittedy, some of them still do pretty well, as the culture over there leads them to give it their all, unlike the diva search models of WWE, but it still doesn't compare to the AJW era where everyone there had passion for wrestling since they were young.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well now they lean really hard into the fetishist aspects, and thats part of why its not as good.

Back then the main demographic was young girls. So a lot of talent had aspired to be wrestlers from a young age, and came from athletic backgrounds.

You still get that today, but more often than not, they're failed idols whose agents recommended pro wrestling for their next venture. Admittedy, some of them still do pretty well, as the culture over there leads them to give it their all, unlike the diva search models of WWE, but it still doesn't compare to the AJW era where everyone there had passion for wrestling since they were young.

Oh yeah, now it’s blatant and kind of in ironically the point of so many of their business ventures. But I meant it more as a layered awareness of how to triangulate a bunch of different audiences without being “distasteful” about it.

[Gerard]

Don't watch it now besides the odd highlight clip that might crop up on youtube, got boring as all fuck long ago.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Don't watch it now besides the odd highlight clip that might crop up on youtube, got boring as all fuck long ago.

This is the criticism I hear all the time that strikes me as really poignant. I’ll hear people (many of whom are not people who would engage in the whole online aspect or be considered “hardcore” fans), who say that they just find it boring now.

[XL]

They’re right. WWE is very much just there. Not so much FEDBAD as FEDMEH.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s AEW too. Bring your own excitement, because the shows themselves aren’t going to give it to you.

[Crippla]

Not a big fan of today's wrestling although i catch some of Raw or SmackDown or Dynamite or whatever once in a while but I'm far more entertained listening to podcasts or watching older shit both that I have experienced or never saw before. I've def become much more of a casual fan over the last decade or so though as the direction it has gone in has waned my interest.

[poopfromweiner dude]

Are you guys sure you just haven't gotten older and *less gay* and maybe it doesn't have everything to do with the product. Also I think some of you just really like complaining

I liked WWE for like 7 months in 2004, I try to watch the Royal Rumble and/or RassleMania but I usually don't. Sometimes I try to put RAW on and I can make it like, I dunno, 1 minute.

But I really want to like wrestling, in the right mood and environment I could enjoy a tv progrum. I WILL go the WrestleMania within the next 10 years, just to say so. Cant wait to howl for *THE BIG DOG*

[Destor]

do people become less gay overtime? is that how being gay works?

[Destor]

"i was a real fag in my 20s but now in my 40s i only like a cock in my ass on the weekends"

[XL]

In my experience (not personal experience mind you) it’s mostly the other way around.

[XL]

It’s AEW too. Bring your own excitement, because the shows themselves aren’t going to give it to you.

I don’t give either promotion my full attention tbh, mostly watch while snoozing on Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday morning or skip altogether and read results if I have work early on those days but I can loosely describe it in the following, and opposite ways;

WWE is just there. Feels like very little happens with maybe one or two things that pique my interest weekly. Segments and matches run too long and I find myself skipping parts of the show.

AEW has too much happening every week with maybe one or two things registering with me and the rest just a blur.

I’ve all but given up watching NXT.

[#1-norm-fan]

Are you guys sure you just haven't gotten older and *less gay* and maybe it doesn't have everything to do with the product.

Nah. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling. The change in the just the basics of proper storytelling is clear as day when you compare eras. The hotshotting of the attitude era is mostly to blame for the sudden shift in style but there’s been no real effort in the past 20 years to figure out how to either slowly take a step back or how to move forward without sacrificing storytelling. WWE has become content with a jumbled creative mess as long as content is being produced.

Also I think some of you just really like complaining

This is also true.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don’t give either promotion my full attention tbh, mostly watch while snoozing on Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday morning or skip altogether and read results if I have work early on those days but I can loosely describe it in the following, and opposite ways;

WWE is just there. Feels like very little happens with maybe one or two things that pique my interest weekly. Segments and matches run too long and I find myself skipping parts of the show.

AEW has too much happening every week with maybe one or two things registering with me and the rest just a blur.

I’ve all but given up watching NXT.

I agree with this — although sometimes it is even less than a few things weekly.

I was thinking before that I think the distinction between a “casual fan” and “casual viewer” should be drawn. I am far from a casual fan, but my viewing has become more and more rare. That’s an indictment on the product(s).

[Crippla]

do people become less gay overtime? is that how being gay works?

In the evolution of usernames "poopfromweiner dude" is progressively *more gay* than "Nervous Ferret" lol and I am also still entertained by the product of the timeframe of my childhood where as I don't care to watch current wrestling whether it be for nostalgic reasons or whatever but I'm still a wrestling fan so I think it is more the direction of the product as opposed to personal growth and maturity or being *less gay* as PFWD said in my case anyway. So I guess I'm a huge fag because I still like wrestling

[XL]

I mean I said 1-2, I think that’s universally accepted as “less than a few”.

It’s definitely a law of diminishing returns. Every time I get moderately hyped for something it underwhelms or the payoff stinks.

I can chart where my interest took a huge dip.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I mean I said 1-2, I think that’s universally accepted as “less than a few”.

It’s definitely a law of diminishing returns. Every time I get moderately hyped for something it underwhelms or the payoff stinks.

I can chart where my interest took a huge dip.

Lol, I just mean that it is sometimes weeks before ANYTHING registers with me. I didn’t mean it to be a jab or anything.

Where did it really hit for you? I think the advent of podcasts has definitely hurt wrestling, in my opinion. The content is just so much…better than the actual wrestling.

[Crippla]

Lol, I just mean that it is sometimes weeks before ANYTHING registers with me. I didn’t mean it to be a jab or anything.

Where did it really hit for you? I think the advent of podcasts has definitely hurt wrestling, in my opinion. The content is just so much…better than the actual wrestling.

Yeah podcasts are amazing! I would make it to a point to listen to the newest episode of Foley is Pod just for example before I made it a point to tune into Raw this week. Podcasts are just way more entertaining now

[Gerard]

This is the criticism I hear all the time that strikes me as really poignant. I’ll hear people (many of whom are not people who would engage in the whole online aspect or be considered “hardcore” fans), who say that they just find it boring now.

Its just pure wank these days,

Promos are scripted literally to the letter and it's rare you get any sense of believability from the people delivering them, they all talk the same they all use the same phrases (each...and every....one of you etc). It's like the promos are written without anyone specific in mind and they're just dumped in a big pile for random people to take and use.

The shows are formatted to the point of mediocrity, whens the last time Raw started with a match? Week in week out its a gum flapping session to open the show.

The moves are getting more and more moronic, for example how often in a multi man match are we going to get that fucking spot where they're all gathered together outside the ring and one guy either climbs the turnbuckle to flop down on them all or jumps over the ropes to drop down on them all? Or that spot where about 6 people are at the turnbuckle all on top of one another and it turns into a multi layer powerbomb or suplex? The moves are so obviously assisted these days that any sense of believability is gone in an instant.


On the whole though i think boredom comes from the fact that most of us are older and have seen it, done it, got the t shirt, we lived through the monday night wars, attitude era and it's all been downhill since that. Wrestling will never get remotely near that peak again, part of the success of the wars and the nwo was the notion that this was an actual wwf invasion and wrestling still had a semblence of being real. That notions long since gone, now we know what they have for breakfast, whos fucking who etc.

IMO it'll just shamble along being a mediocre tv attraction at best and thats about all it can hope for now.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Its just pure wank these days,

Promos are scripted literally to the letter and it's rare you get any sense of believability from the people delivering them, they all talk the same they all use the same phrases (each...and every....one of you etc). It's like the promos are written without anyone specific in mind and they're just dumped in a big pile for random people to take and use.

The shows are formatted to the point of mediocrity, whens the last time Raw started with a match? Week in week out its a gum flapping session to open the show.

The moves are getting more and more moronic, for example how often in a multi man match are we going to get that fucking spot where they're all gathered together outside the ring and one guy either climbs the turnbuckle to flop down on them all or jumps over the ropes to drop down on them all? Or that spot where about 6 people are at the turnbuckle all on top of one another and it turns into a multi layer powerbomb or suplex? The moves are so obviously assisted these days that any sense of believability is gone in an instant.


On the whole though i think boredom comes from the fact that most of us are older and have seen it, done it, got the t shirt, we lived through the monday night wars, attitude era and it's all been downhill since that. Wrestling will never get remotely near that peak again, part of the success of the wars and the nwo was the notion that this was an actual wwf invasion and wrestling still had a semblence of being real. That notions long since gone, now we know what they have for breakfast, whos fucking who etc.

IMO it'll just shamble along being a mediocre tv attraction at best and thats about all it can hope for now.

Great post.

I often think about the inevitability of it all. Was wrestling always destined to be contained to relevancy in the 20th Century? I’m not sure it had to go down this path. The promoters and performers could take better care of it.

[Fignuts]

I feel it has a lot to do with the way society and culture has evolved the last couple decades. The biggest boom periods in wrestling drew from cultural movements. I feel like we haven't seen movements like that since. Do the past two decades even have an identity the same way that previous decades did? I feel like the rise of the internet and social media, along with the massive push in corporate branding and marketing, has really muddled us as a society.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hmm, I think the point is valid, but a lot of how we conceptualize time is constructed with hindsight too. And wrestling informs culture just as much as it flows on from it. Steve Austin was very 90’s, but he put a lot of that into the period too. I wonder how much is horse and how much is cart.

Technology has opened us up to a globalized (and gentrified) world. But it also allows different tastes and viewpoints to be exalted. I don’t know if it’s fair to say that the past few decades haven’t had an identity. I think they’re going to be associated with youth growing up with information at their fingertips and its clash with the people it scares, for example. It’d be hard to talk about media in the 2000’s and 2010’s without talking about Marvel and streaming.

There’s definitely stuff to talk about culturally. It’s just hard to talk about it in the corona of it all sometimes. I think, anyway.

But I do see your point about branding. A lot of that has been a conscious decision by the WWE that really started way back when they were the WWF and first went public in 1999. I think they might be trappings of their own design. Looking at their profits, they probably desire it.

[drave]

I feel it has a lot to do with the way society and culture has evolved the last couple decades. The biggest boom periods in wrestling drew from cultural movements. I feel like we haven't seen movements like that since. Do the past two decades even have an identity the same way that previous decades did? I feel like the rise of the internet and social media, along with the massive push in corporate branding and marketing, has really muddled us as a society.




It's most definitely this. WWE's main draw is no longer the in-ring product, and it hasn't been for a very long time.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's most definitely this. WWE's main draw is no longer the in-ring product, and it hasn't been for a very long time.

You say that, but Cody and Seth just got awarded five stars from everyone’s favorite purveyor of taste. I much prefer the work of Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar to Adam Page and Kenny Omega. I mean, even when they were the WWF the action wasn’t always the fastest, and the in-ring product being better than its closest competitor doesn’t mean it’s the main draw. But I think people can get overly cynical about these points (not saying you are).

Hell, I’m not even sure I’m disagreeing with either you or Figgy, I just think this is a really important discussion to have.

[Fignuts]

There's always something really good on a WWE ppv. Its never been entirely unwatchable. Part of me wishes it was so I could ignore it completely.

The really great matches however, are always surrounded by so much formulaic, uninspired filler. Even wrestlemania at this point, only delivers two, MAYBE three matches that feel up to the standard of the event.

[XL]

Was the in-ring ever WWE’s main draw/focus? They’ve always been more personality/storyline focused with the actual physical element second fiddle. It’s just the personalites and storylines have gotten progressively worse and the action better.

[drave]

Speaking purely from a business model perspective, not whatever podcaster or "wrasslin talking head" people love/hate.


Not even talking about it from a "mark's" perspective. I just don't believe they are focusing on their in-ring product so much as branding and shit like that, that is more "behind the scenes".


They homogenized entrances, some themes (the CFO$ era), promos (even down to generic phrases and cadence), etc.


They just wanna take this product, that is "there" but "dependable" and put it out in as many formats as possible. I expect the "next gen" of top talent to go the way of "Miz & Mrs" in a much more prominent way. That's the kinda focus I'm referencing, and definitely seems the way they are going. I'm not discounting their NXT program or whatever..... but that is also kinda paramount to them "keeping things same samey".



Strictly my opinion, but there's only so many god damn times you can do Roman v Brock and get people to STILL care. On the flip-side, you have die-hards who will pay to watch them do the same shit literally every day.


It'll be interesting, maybe?, to see where it all falls.

[drave]

Was the in-ring ever WWE’s main draw/focus? They’ve always been more personality/storyline focused with the actual physical element second fiddle. It’s just the personalites and storylines have gotten progressively worse and the action better.




I'd say yes. You would have "a time" when you would have to "pay to see the champ". You have your champ performing in-ring, but you have to pay a premium to see that.



The action is predictable, the personalities are all the same, with one or two things tweaked.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I’d say they’re getting back to that having a champ that draws now with Roman Reigns. They even pull him off shows that don’t fill a stadium. He popped a pretty big rating last week.

I agree that WWE wants a fairly “evergreen” product. They don’t want to make it too hot, because once they start to come down, so does the stock price. I think they could definitely produce a sustainable product that ticks way more boxes than they do though.

Fucking hell, hand out promo licenses to guys, so you can get to the stage where you prove you can write your own shit and make it work without going too far. It could definitely stand to feel way more organic.

[#1-norm-fan]

Was the in-ring ever WWE’s main draw/focus? They’ve always been more personality/storyline focused with the actual physical element second fiddle. It’s just the personalites and storylines have gotten progressively worse and the action better.

They’ve caved to the internet’s wishes and focused on their workrate heroes to the detriment of any remaining mainstream audience WAY more than a lot of people, Vince included, would ever admit.

[DAMN iNATOR]

More serious than ever before in 2022. 1,000,000/10.

[DAMN iNATOR]

i like that Riddle guy. I dont really follow rasslin that much anymore but I like his gimmick that he is a stoner and he forgets to put his boots on.

Riddle Van Dam is a funny guy. Almost not serious enough for me. ALMOST.

[XL]

I’d say they’re getting back to that having a champ that draws now with Roman Reigns. They even pull him off shows that don’t fill a stadium. He popped a pretty big rating last week.

How much of that rating was down to the scandal and Vince’s appearance on the show? I’ve not seen the “minute-by-minute” breakdown but you’d anticipate that they’d get a bump from that. The hour or so after Vince was very flat creatively, did they manage to hold attention through to Roman?

[XL]

Lol, I just mean that it is sometimes weeks before ANYTHING registers with me. I didn’t mean it to be a jab or anything.

Where did it really hit for you? I think the advent of podcasts has definitely hurt wrestling, in my opinion. The content is just so much…better than the actual wrestling.

It was a slow decline followed by a series of "hammer blows" in 2019 - quite late by a lot of people's standards.

February 18th: WWE calls up Ricochet, Aleister Black, Ciampa and Gargano up to Raw clearly with no plan for them, and undoing years of storylines in NXT in the cases of the former DIY.

April 8th 2019: Raw after Mania. After a Mania that gave us 3 huge babyface wins they setup a "Winner Takes All" World Title Match that predictably ended in a DQ. Call ups were Lars Sullivan, and I think Sami Zayn returned, that was it.

April 2019: The SuperStar Shake up. Followed almost immediately by the "Wildcard Rule".

May 20th 2019: WWE introduces the 24/7 Championship, it is fucking ugly and won by scramble, literally the first person to grab the belt. Potential not realised. Launch of Raw: Dark. Interesting concept. Potential not realised.

June 2019: Heyman took over booking of Raw which should have had some promise. He started to bring in new talent, there was a new "energy" in the product.

September 30th: Raw "season premiere".

October 4th: SmackDown premieres on FOX with its 20th Anniversary

October 11th and 14th 2019: The Draft. Second Time lucky?


It's those last 4 shows in quick succession where they could have done something to really change up what they were doing but they didn't. I fully accept that I set my expectations high and the product was just disappointing.

[drave]

I’d say they’re getting back to that having a champ that draws now with Roman Reigns. They even pull him off shows that don’t fill a stadium. He popped a pretty big rating last week.

I agree that WWE wants a fairly “evergreen” product. They don’t want to make it too hot, because once they start to come down, so does the stock price. I think they could definitely produce a sustainable product that ticks way more boxes than they do though.

Fucking hell, hand out promo licenses to guys, so you can get to the stage where you prove you can write your own shit and make it work without going too far. It could definitely stand to feel way more organic.


It's not so much of a champ "who draws" for me, so much as it is the same fucking names time and time and time again and yeah....


I tuned out YEARS ago, hard to remember the exact timing of it because my memory is shit. I remember watching... probably RAW, and just calling out literally everything that was going to happen before it did. That, and fucky finishes at PPV's or other "big matches" that should have a clean finish, unless it is progressing something, or debuting someone you know?


Lots of things that just started to really "not make any sense at all" and I cannot pinpoint a single attribute, it just all started to stink. The camera cuts also contributed to this, as it makes the on-screen product VERY difficult to watch at times.

[drave]

Tried to edit, but my post disappeared.....


Like, we will get Lesnar v Reigns on a PPV right? Just to have a rematch the next night, or the nearly identical match the following month, with one or two tweaks. Big yawn for me on that.

[Crippla]

You bring up a lot of good points for my reasons of losing interest. The predictability is a huge thing as well as the bullshit finishes and storylines building up to go nowhere. I feel like it gets worse as time goes on.

[drave]

Anytime (in the rare instance) there are World Title matches on TV, you can all but guarantee a fucky finish.


I don't recall the last time a world champ was crowned on TV, but why not do that sometimes. I get it in the age of the 50-60 ppv buy, but it's all Peacock now, and 9.99 is a much lower barrier for entry.



Don't be scuurt. Do some exciting shit now and again man. I dunno. It is so formulaic (part of the homogenizing aspect) that it is boring.

[XL]

Big E, Raw, September 2021.

[weather vane]

Not very seriously.

[DAMN iNATOR]

We need Bob Backlund to go around yelling at crowds to take wrestling seriously again. Shit, have him consider running for president again. :shifty:

[xrodmuc316]

This Seriously...

https://i.imgflip.com/6l0y1n.jpg

[Lock Jaw]

lollllll That's the face of a man whose parents never hugged him

[Crippla]

I bet Tony Khan grew up as a stereotypical rich kid that you'd see in movies. Had everything one could ask for on a silver platter and all the opportunities in the world at his fingertips but was never happy and "acted out" in rebellion because daddy didn't give him enough attention and he felt "unloved"

[Mr. Nerfect]

You can tell he wasn’t a smart kid growing up. No billionaire “rewards” their actually smart kid for getting good grades.

Holy shit at that face though. The way he’s hugging Okada is freakin’ insane.

[Jordan]

I am fucking dying right now. Funniest shit I've seen in ages.

[Crippla]

I wonder if he pays older hookers to hug them while he cries and then breast feed him with some sort of "mommy" complex/fetish... that's what that look indicates to me lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

It’s the kind of look you see in flashbacks once you discover the guy “did it.”

[DAMN iNATOR]

Happy for Cameron Grimes getting a main-event push in NXT, but yeah...*SIGH*...there’s no way he’s the one to beat Bron Breakker for the title. ☹️

[Mr. Nerfect]

He’ll get to leave when his deal is up and accept The Hug.

[DAMN iNATOR]

He’ll get to leave when his deal is up and accept The Hug.

Yes, no, maybe, I don’t know. Can you repeat the question?