View Full Version : Lance Storm's Thoughts on Raw
Next Big Thing
12-27-2011, 04:45 PM
@Storm_Wrestling
Lance Storm
Advice to RAW. Stop having everyone point out each others flaws, especially legit ones. Why is everyone burying the talent and the product?
Then when a fan commented that HBK and Bret had similar dialogue during their feud he responded with
@Storm_Wrestling
Lance Storm
@dschimbt Different when you've been over for 10 years already. When you're trying to elevate people it's death
I've had similar gripes with some of Punk and Cena's promos as well as Cole's commentary.
Have you guys noticed this too? Do you think there are too many pipe bombs being dropped at the expense of the product?
Rammsteinmad
12-27-2011, 04:49 PM
This reminds me of Punks comments to Del Rio a few weeks back, about how all he ever talks about is 'his destiny'.
On one hand, it does bury Del Rio before he's 'over', but then on the other hand, what Punk said was true, and maybe could be used to push Del Rio to become better.
Supreme Olajuwon
12-27-2011, 04:53 PM
Yeah Cole sucks cock and makes the show unwatchable the way he buries talent.
As for wrestlers doing it to each other, whatever that doesn't bother me as long as it's not boring.
Next Big Thing
12-27-2011, 04:56 PM
I thought Cena's interactions with Del Rio were rough. Especially that one exchange where Del Rio was the champ and Cena called him the third wheel and pissed all over his championship win.
Punk's exchanges with Nash were pretty bad too. He pretty much slaughtered Nash and killed any desire I had to see them feud, even for shits and giggles. Nash isn't a slouch on the mic either.
erickman
12-27-2011, 04:57 PM
i think he is still mad at the boring chant stone cold started on him.
Next Big Thing
12-27-2011, 05:02 PM
Haha. Just like that dumb ass "What" chant Austin started. It did kind of fuck him though since Storm was actually entertaining in the ring but no matter what he did the crowd was too busy using all their brain cells to chant boring to notice that he was actually good in the ring.
Yeah, this happens all too often. The biggest one this year being that Triple H could have a better match with a broomstick than most of the roster. This is something that really needs to stop unless the situation warrants it. Today, nine times out of ten, it doesn't.
Nicky Fives
12-27-2011, 06:10 PM
If only one person does it and "it's their thing," it's fine (CM Punk).....But when too many people do it, it's far too often.....
DAMN iNATOR
12-27-2011, 06:13 PM
Yeah Cole sucks cock and makes the show unwatchable the way he buries talent.
As for wrestlers doing it to each other, whatever that doesn't bother me as long as it's not boring.
LOL, WTF?! Cole tells it like it is. And yet people still hate him for it. Amazing.
DAMN iNATOR, ladies and gentlemen.
Supreme Olajuwon
12-27-2011, 06:49 PM
Yup, telling the truth and being entertaining are always the same thing. No exceptions.
Kane Knight
12-27-2011, 06:50 PM
Advice to RAW. Stop having everyone point out each others flaws, especially legit ones. Why is everyone burying the talent and the product?
But wrestling is only cool when you drop the gimmick, break the fourth wall, and act like it's REAL!
Kane Knight
12-27-2011, 06:51 PM
Shit, someone already beat me to the satire. :(
LOL, WTF?! Cole tells it like it is. And yet people still hate him for it. Amazing.
#1-norm-fan
12-27-2011, 07:02 PM
What specific example from last night's Raw was he referring to?
Mr. Nerfect
12-27-2011, 07:32 PM
KK, it's not satire if it's not satirising anything.
Kane Knight
12-27-2011, 07:43 PM
KK, it's not satire if it's not satirising anything.
Which is great, but completely irrelevant in this instance.
dingdongyo
12-27-2011, 08:00 PM
oh, you all would do things differently if you were in charge?
ok.
Blakeamus
12-27-2011, 08:11 PM
Yeah, this happens all too often. The biggest one this year being that Triple H could have a better match with a broomstick than most of the roster. This is something that really needs to stop unless the situation warrants it. Today, nine times out of ten, it doesn't.
5 Star Quality!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/crazeaholic/broomstick.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/crazeaholic/Broomstick3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/crazeaholic/Broomstick2.jpg
#BURIED
Aguakate
12-27-2011, 08:23 PM
What Lance says is 100% true, and it reminds me of when Alberto Del Rio was feuding with John Cena, where Cena kept pointing out that the cars that Del Rio comes out in aren't really his.
It does nothing to help the guys get over.
Mr. Nerfect
12-27-2011, 08:23 PM
Which is great, but completely irrelevant in this instance.
What are you satirising, exactly? No one has said that wrestling is only cool if you break the fourth wall, yet that seems to be the only target of your post. Flat.
Gertner
12-27-2011, 08:26 PM
Punk and Cole pretty much do the same thing, but because Punk is indyrific, he's cool.
DAMN iNATOR
12-27-2011, 08:27 PM
Shit, someone already beat me to the satire. :(
What satire? I was being completely serious and not joking in any way whatsoever.
That makes your post even sadder.
Droford
12-27-2011, 09:02 PM
You know, I was watching RAW and all I could think of last night was how Lance Storm felt about the show. Im sure glad he decided to post his opinions on twitter. Now I feel better knowing how he feels about RAW.
Kane Knight
12-27-2011, 09:15 PM
oh, you all would do things differently if you were in charge?
ok.
Yes.
What are you satirising, exactly? No one has said that wrestling is only cool if you break the fourth wall, yet that seems to be the only target of your post. Flat.
It's not the target, it's the hyperbole of the sentiment. You do understand how satire works, right? Because your statement there displays none whatsoever. This is kind of a crucial piece of the very nature of satire.
Do you nitpick Rudyard Kipling? "But nobody said 'White Man's Burden!' Therefore it's not satire!"
Howabout Mark Twain? his indictments of things like racism and society are by and large based around such hyperbolic indications that "no one has said."
Gore Vidal? Oh, who am I kidding. Kane Knight is too complex for you, there's no way you've read and understood Kipling or Twain or Vidal.
Punk and Cole pretty much do the same thing, but because Punk is indyrific, he's cool.
Dammit, stop telling it like it is!
DaveBrawl
12-27-2011, 09:50 PM
Kane Knight is too complex for you
You should speak in third person more often. I really cracked up at that.
Mr. Nerfect
12-27-2011, 09:55 PM
Yes.
It's not the target, it's the hyperbole of the sentiment. You do understand how satire works, right? Because your statement there displays none whatsoever. This is kind of a crucial piece of the very nature of satire.
Do you nitpick Rudyard Kipling? "But nobody said 'White Man's Burden!' Therefore it's not satire!"
Howabout Mark Twain? his indictments of things like racism and society are by and large based around such hyperbolic indications that "no one has said."
Gore Vidal? Oh, who am I kidding. Kane Knight is too complex for you, there's no way you've read and understood Kipling or Twain or Vidal.
Do not ever compare yourself to Twain. Ever.
And way to take what I said completely out of context to fit your will. Racism and class struggles existed -- the "sentiment" you are exaggerating is entirely irrelevant and ineffective in anything more than an "Epic fat man is fat" sense. You're about as satirical as a Wayan Brothers movie.
I hope you find a way to work off the terrible karma you have for comparing yourself to such figures of literacy. Also, you go on thinking you are "too complex" for me. You're a 2D internet meme that occasionally presents an intelligent thought wrapped in attempts to be funny or witty (sometimes you succeed -- sometimes not). Maybe in real life, there is a sad story that a Sodenbergh could get to the bottom of; but complexity is certainly not the issue on TPWW, chum.
Mr. Nerfect
12-27-2011, 09:56 PM
You should speak in third person more often. I really cracked up at that.
Ugh, do not encourage any more of an ego complex in the man. Really.
Mr. Nerfect
12-27-2011, 09:57 PM
What satire? I was being completely serious and not joking in any way whatsoever.
I don't think it really matters to KK. He was launching at attack at your tastes more than anything. Basically, if it's your taste to like Cole, you're wrong; because anything positive written about him must be satire.
Aguakate
12-27-2011, 09:59 PM
Basically, if it's your taste to like Cole, you're wrong; because anything positive written about him must be satire.
"Basically", that's what this forum is all about. You MUST like what everybody else likes.
Mr. Nerfect
12-27-2011, 10:05 PM
Punk and Cole pretty much do the same thing, but because Punk is indyrific, he's cool.
There are differences between the two. Cole is the lead announcer, and supposed to be an unbiased character -- and often does try to do so. It's inconsistent in lieu with his apparent heel status.
CM Punk's character (the last I saw of it, anyway) is that he goes a little deeper. He doesn't "break the fourth wall" so much as stretch the scope of the story being told beyond the reach of the cameras. Punk basically acknowledges that there are on-goings off-screen. Punk hasn't really buried anyone since getting on the mic. You could argue that he takes shots at John Laurinaitis -- but does that guy really need credibility given that he's a suit? I haven't been watching lately, though -- maybe his character has changed.
Now, I don't even hate the Michael Cole character. I think he could be a useful tool in getting both faces and heels over. I do think that he needs to leave the booth, however. It's kind of unsettling when you are supposed to dislike the dude that is telling you the story you are listening to. Have Cole become a character elsewhere and Josh Mathews or Jim Ross could take over.
Mr. Nerfect
12-27-2011, 10:09 PM
"Basically", that's what this forum is all about. You MUST like what everybody else likes.
Not everyone is like that. In fact, even KK has gone on to defend the opinion of the minority when there's a chance of antagonising someone by doing so. Hell, the guy has even defended me when there is a fresher fight to be had.
I think the bigger point is that you must not take anyone here too seriously. I will throw walls of text around like candy, because I enjoy it. But the moment you start taking this shit too seriously, you end up like one of the poor rooks who gets tormented and then leaves before they have a chance to contribute. Just throw your thoughts out there and don't take the trolling too seriously.
But yeah -- Michael Cole is shit. :p
#1-norm-fan
12-27-2011, 11:00 PM
lol. People are really claiming that there is no difference between what CM Punk does and what Michael Cole does? Come on.
#1-norm-fan
12-27-2011, 11:01 PM
The Sandman did the same thing Steve Austin did but everyone praises Steve Austin. STUPID IWC!
Aguakate
12-27-2011, 11:08 PM
The Sandman did the same thing Steve Austin did but everyone praises Steve Austin. STUPID IWC!
Austin perfected it, though. Made it much better.
And could actually wrestle, too.
#1-norm-fan
12-27-2011, 11:11 PM
Austin perfected it, though. Made it much better.
And could actually wrestle, too.
I uh... I'm aware.
Aguakate
12-27-2011, 11:16 PM
I uh... I'm aware.
And we're all aware that Sandman did the "beer drinking thing" before Steve Austin, too, so don't get picky, guy.
screech
12-27-2011, 11:19 PM
You'll have to excuse Aguakate. He doesn't understand...anything.
Supreme Olajuwon
12-27-2011, 11:21 PM
I understand your analogy, #1-wwf-fan.
#1-norm-fan
12-27-2011, 11:50 PM
Thank you, everybody but Aquakate.
Vastardikai
12-28-2011, 12:16 AM
Punk and Cole pretty much do the same thing, but because Punk is indyrific, he's cool.
Except Cole's job as announcer is to call the action and get me involved in the product, not to get over.
Punk's job is to get over.
Malfeitor
12-28-2011, 02:43 AM
If Cole's job is making people want to mute the TV and/or change the channel, then he's doing a damn good job.
He just needs to either tone it down, or just completely drop the shtick because it gets old really fast. It's so distracting trying to watch a match when he's going off and bickering with Lawler about some stupid shit that has little to do with anything going on in the ring.
Like someone else said earlier in the thread, take his ass out of the booth. Let him be a manager or something. His "announcing" is just awful.
Aguakate
12-28-2011, 02:47 AM
If Cole's job is making people want to mute the TV and/or change the channel, then he's doing a damn good job.
He just needs to either tone it down, or just completely drop the shtick because it gets old really fast. It's so distracting trying to watch a match when he's going off and bickering with Lawler about some stupid shit that has little to do with anything going on in the ring.
Like someone else said earlier in the thread, take his ass out of the booth. Let him be a manager or something. His "announcing" is just awful.
BRB "If Cole's job is making people want to mute the TV and/or change the channel, then he's doing a damn good job".
BRB Like someone else said earlier in the thread, take his ass out of the booth. Let him be a manager or something. His "announcing" is just awful.
I thought he was a bit more toned down this week.
Aguakate
12-28-2011, 02:51 AM
I thought he was a bit more toned down this week.
Maybe he's working out. Hitting them weights. Doing the cardio.
Malfeitor
12-28-2011, 02:53 AM
I thought he was a bit more toned down this week.
To be fair, I believe so too. He still has his moments though.
Autobahn
12-28-2011, 08:02 AM
This reminds me of Punks comments to Del Rio a few weeks back, about how all he ever talks about is 'his destiny'.
On one hand, it does bury Del Rio before he's 'over', but then on the other hand, what Punk said was true, and maybe could be used to push Del Rio to become better.
Agree. Its a double edged sword in some ways, but there are things that can be settled behind the scenes to make someone better, rather than expose their flaws to millions worldwide.
Rammsteinmad
12-28-2011, 08:27 AM
I'm a Cole-Miner.
Gertner
12-28-2011, 11:25 AM
There are differences between the two. Cole is the lead announcer, and supposed to be an unbiased character -- and often does try to do so. It's inconsistent in lieu with his apparent heel status.
CM Punk's character (the last I saw of it, anyway) is that he goes a little deeper. He doesn't "break the fourth wall" so much as stretch the scope of the story being told beyond the reach of the cameras. Punk basically acknowledges that there are on-goings off-screen. Punk hasn't really buried anyone since getting on the mic. You could argue that he takes shots at John Laurinaitis -- but does that guy really need credibility given that he's a suit? I haven't been watching lately, though -- maybe his character has changed.
Now, I don't even hate the Michael Cole character. I think he could be a useful tool in getting both faces and heels over. I do think that he needs to leave the booth, however. It's kind of unsettling when you are supposed to dislike the dude that is telling you the story you are listening to. Have Cole become a character elsewhere and Josh Mathews or Jim Ross could take over.
Since when have announcers been unbiased. You mean to tell me Jim Ross isn't a face and Lawler wasn't a heel during the late 90's early 2000's? There's no difference whatsoever.
#1-norm-fan
12-28-2011, 11:36 AM
To be fair, I don't remember there ever really being a heel lead announcer. Color commentator can just make snide comments while the other guy calls the match and that's why they tend to be heels. For example, Bobby Heenan as lead announcer and Gorilla Monsoon as commentator would have been awkward as fuck.
#1-norm-fan
12-28-2011, 11:40 AM
Not to mention the whole "breaking the 4th wall" thing is done in an annoying (even if it's intended to be so) way by Cole and a "fan's own" way by Punk. Punk is more likable, Punk is actually funny when he does it, Punk is the actual star of the show and not basically a disembodied voice you hear during matches...
Seriously, I'm having to explain to people the difference between CM Punk and Michael Cole right now...
Gertner
12-28-2011, 11:44 AM
Punk is supposed to be funny, and Cole is supposed to be annoying.
#1-norm-fan
12-28-2011, 11:50 AM
Hey look, Gertner's joining in on pointing out the differences too.
Gertner
12-28-2011, 11:51 AM
They are both "breaking the 4th wall" and burying people. That's all I was saying. But people jizz all over Punk and bash Cole, when they are basically doing the same thing.
I've already decided that I am right, so good day sir.
#1-norm-fan
12-28-2011, 11:56 AM
lol
#1-norm-fan
12-28-2011, 11:59 AM
There's no difference whatsoever.
Punk is supposed to be funny, and Cole is supposed to be annoying.
they are basically doing the same thing.
Supreme Olajuwon
12-28-2011, 12:07 PM
think Cole wouldn't be as bad if Lawler wasn't so shit at his part in this
like back when Striker was around, if Cole made some comment burying somebody, Striker would balance it out by making some comment praising that guy
but Lawler is effing terrible at that. because each exchange is basically this:
Cole: "Look at this Ryder kid. He is a such a loser!"
King: "Oh yeah? Well... you're small and I could beat you up."
erickman
12-28-2011, 12:46 PM
To be fair, I don't remember there ever really being a heel lead announcer. Color commentator can just make snide comments while the other guy calls the match and that's why they tend to be heels. For example, Bobby Heenan as lead announcer and Gorilla Monsoon as commentator would have been awkward as fuck.
yeah thats the way it should be if cole wants to be a heel he should be on color, what i hate the most he is on both shows, they should have broght booker in as a heel and let him and josh work as the smackdown teem.
Aint it Coles gimmick to hate everything smarks love?
Hes pretty awesome tbh.
screech
12-28-2011, 01:51 PM
think Cole wouldn't be as bad if Lawler wasn't so shit at his part in this
like back when Striker was around, if Cole made some comment burying somebody, Striker would balance it out by making some comment praising that guy
but Lawler is effing terrible at that. because each exchange is basically this:
Cole: "Look at this Ryder kid. He is a such a loser!"
King: "Oh yeah? Well... you're small and I could beat you up."
I'm convinced Lawler doesn't listen to what Cole says ever & just speaks on silence.
Supreme Olajuwon
12-28-2011, 02:35 PM
Well he's already said he doesn't like announcing and is just doing it until they stop paying him. So yeah, that wouldn't surprise me.
The difference is Punk takes up maybe 15 minutes of TV time with his "shoot" stuff, Cole is there for pretty much 3 hours of television a week (time removed for commercials). Too much Cole.
On top of that, in an exchange with Punk his opponent has the opportunity to defend himself, this isn't possible with Cole. Usually this is where the face announcer steps in, but, as stated in this thread, Lawler doesn't care enough to research the guys that he's talking about and thus cannot defend them (and Booker's points are often nonsensical).
Breaking down to "brass tacks", the stuff Punk says is as bad for the product as what Cole is doing but in a much more condensed manner. The biggest affect Punk has had is that his style has become somewhat of an epidemic. HHH, Nash, Cena, all "dropping pipe bombs" and often to the detriment of "younger, newer" stars.
There's absolutely no need to be burying Del Rio with comments regarding his promo style, or that his cars are rented. And that's coming from a guy who isn't an ADR fan/mark.
Gertner
12-28-2011, 02:48 PM
This is exactly why I'm up for Wrestling poster of the Year.
Ruien
12-28-2011, 02:53 PM
Can someone tell me why Lance Storm thinks he still matters? Sure he may be stating something that a lot of us agree with, but there have already been multiple threads about this subject.
Supreme Olajuwon
12-28-2011, 02:56 PM
I'm fairly certain, now remember this is just me talking, but I am fairly certain that Lance Storm did not check TPWW's wrestling forum to see how many topics there were about this before posting his opinion on Twitter.
Supreme Olajuwon
12-28-2011, 02:57 PM
Although we all know that Twitter is THE place for relevant people to post their relevant opinions.
Captain of Fun
12-28-2011, 04:38 PM
The big difference between Cole and heel announcers of the past, is that fans loved to hate Heenan and Lawler.
Fans just hate Cole.
Captain of Fun
12-28-2011, 04:40 PM
Good heel announcers could spend the whole match ripping into a guy, and he'd be better for it by the end. It was all in the execution.
I don't get that when I listen to Cole.
#1-norm-fan
12-28-2011, 04:55 PM
The big difference between Cole and heel announcers of the past, is that fans loved to hate Heenan and Lawler.
Fans just hate Cole.
Heenan and Lawler were commentators. And in, they commented on things. That's why the entire set-up is weird. There's no one to call the action a lot of the time. It's just a heel commentator and a face commentator bickering.
Lock Jaw
12-28-2011, 06:36 PM
– WWE officials held a meeting last week after the RAW ratings came in where Michael Cole’s commentary was discussed. TV ratings patterns show fans have little interest in seeing anyone on TV besides the top Superstars. Consideration was given to the fact that maybe this is because of Cole burying the talents for the past year.
Yeah, Meltzer talked about that yesterday on Wrestling Observer Live
Gertner
12-28-2011, 07:11 PM
Sorry, I don't trust Spics
"TV ratings patterns show fans have little interest in seeing anyone on TV besides the top Superstars. Consideration was given to the fact that maybe this is because of Cole burying the talents for the past year."
Whilst I don't doubt the negative effect of shitting on the talent from the announce table, I hope that they don't think this is the only reason people aren't interested in anything but the Main Eventers.
I hope that they discussed the fact that for the most part they don't give the low-carders anything to hook the audience with on an "emotional level".
Can someone tell me why Lance Storm thinks he still matters? Sure he may be stating something that a lot of us agree with, but there have already been multiple threads about this subject.
I'm fairly certain, now remember this is just me talking, but I am fairly certain that Lance Storm did not check TPWW's wrestling forum to see how many topics there were about this before posting his opinion on Twitter.
ahahaha
Tom Guycott
12-30-2011, 07:55 AM
I disagree that Cole is not a good announcer.
The problem is that he can't do both things at the same time: which is to say be an annoying heel heat machine AND an impartial announcer. He swings between the two, and it looks to be for no discernable reason.
Yeah, that whole thing with Lawler happened, but just a few days after their "feud", they were already joking about it like it was ancient history. Cole's feud is on and off with JR, and, with very few exceptions, he continually buries Daniel Bryan with no payoff other than that time he got kicked in the head on NXT right before that went away and the Nexus tie-choke thing happened. Bryan isn't the only talent he's buried (the entire diva roster, for example) with no sort of payoff or counter-point proving that he's wrong and heelish. Makes it look like the truth if you hear him talk about how much Zack Ryder sucks and he jobs every week. If anything, it's more creative being lazy than Cole being terrible.
In short, WWE needs to make up their minds on what they want him to do: dial it down and stay in the booth, OR become a really credible heel manager. It's a simple transition either way.
More to the topic: comments like HHH's "broom match" thing has the potential to become an angle for someone. Hell, Cody's star started shining from the result of an otherwise nondescript Diva's poll on the cutest guy. Someone could take excepton to that comment and potentially get the rub from wrestling Hunter instead of just sitting back and letting it be.
In summary, to quote Firefly:
"Many know the name Malcolm Reynolds. Many more know he cross Niska. They must know what happens *after* that!"
WWE seems so preoccupied with the trending of the latest "pipe bomb" that they don't think of what does, could, or should happen after that.
Mr. Nerfect
01-02-2012, 02:53 AM
Something needs to change about commentary. I agree that Cole is not a terrible announcer, but it's terrible that his character, as it is, is the lead announcer for the WWE. Someone needs to come in and fire Michael Cole, or take him out for a few weeks, changing his role into that of a manager to heels that could really use the boost.
A Cole vs. Punk feud could actually be more fun than Punk's current shit with John Laurinaitis.
Tom Guycott
01-02-2012, 03:10 AM
... Laurinaitis is the *interim* GM.
Cole gets named the permanant, taking him out of the booth and giving him a reason to be a more insufferable heel. Starts said feud with Punk. Good idea, Noid!
Aguakate
01-02-2012, 03:28 AM
You know, I was watching RAW and all I could think of last night was how Lance Storm felt about the show. Im sure glad he decided to post his opinions on twitter. Now I feel better knowing how he feels about RAW.
To be fair, Lance Storm's opinions about RAW and the WWE in general are worth the same as all of OUR opinions about RAW and the WWE in general...
WORTH SHIT
I think that was Droford's point. Aguakate.
Do they have sarcasm in Puerto Rico?
Aguakate
01-02-2012, 03:59 AM
No, that was not Droford's point. He was basically coming like "Who cares what Lance Storm says?"
Well...if we go that route, then...no one cares what we say, either.
#BROKEN Hasney
01-02-2012, 04:01 AM
Something needs to change about commentary. I agree that Cole is not a terrible announcer, but it's terrible that his character, as it is, is the lead announcer for the WWE. Someone needs to come in and fire Michael Cole, or take him out for a few weeks, changing his role into that of a manager to heels that could really use the boost.
A Cole vs. Punk feud could actually be more fun than Punk's current shit with John Laurinaitis.
Bar his run with Tazz, Cole is a horrible announcer. He's ruining things in 1999 for me now.
Aguakate
01-02-2012, 04:03 AM
Cole really does bury talent.
He buried the shit out of The Hart Dynasty. Hell, he can lay claim to being the person responsible for their demise.
They need to calm him down.
No, that was not Droford's point. He was basically coming like "Who cares what Lance Storm says?"
Well...if we go that route, then...no one cares what we say, either.
What an astounding revelation.
Mr. Nerfect
01-02-2012, 08:22 AM
Splitting up The Hart Dynasty was an absolutely baffling move. I get that they liked Tyson Kidd more than they did David Hart Smith, but they haven't really done too much with Kidd since, either. The dudes could have definitely been at least as solid and over mid-card team as The Usos. Not that they are tearing it up, either, but they are at least still together.
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