I feel like something's "missing" with CM Punk right now...

[#1-norm-fan]

He was so hot last summer and kinda seemed like the next mega-star of wrestling. I'm usually pretty good at deciphering what it is that isn't clicking with a guy for me but I can't quite put my finger on this one. Maybe it's the fact that he's been so on the back burner behind Taker, Triple H, Rock, Cena and Lesnar that it just feels weird that he's got the title. Even guys like Bryan, Swagger and Sheamus originally who I didn't think were ready for a title run were atleast the focal point of their respective shows at the time.

It just feels like since he blew up last summer he hasn't been on that path to eventually solidifying himself as THE guy. I'd usually blame the booking since it's generally godawful but I don't think the Jericho feud is actually being poorly booked. There's nothing specific I can point to and say "This is why Punk isn't reaching that next level" yet somehow him as a whole just isn't clicking right now. Weird.

Thoughts? Does he need to start feuding with the more solidified stars on a regular basis like Cena, Lesnar, Rock, Orton... maybe even throw in Kane? But wouldn't Jericho count as one of those solidified stars? Does he just need to keep winning consistently and eventually it'll be a "the big guys have to take notice now" thing. Maybe he just doesn't have the size/look. I don't know. Gah. So confused.

[Nicky Fives]

He's not as edgy as he was in the past and is more a victim of pipebombs than the deliverer (if that is a word).... He still gets the biggest pop on Raw in most cities.....

[Shadrick]

Orton-Punk has been done. Cena-Punk has been done. He needs to work with guys who are over enough to get buried by the pipebomb and it not kill them completely.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Honestly I've been disappointed with this Punk/Jericho feud. It's just been Jericho insulting him on the tron week in week out and it's gotten old. Both guys are obviously great talkers, but the overall concept of the feud just felt generic - and at times even silly (I still don't get how being a bastard in 2012 is meant to be a big deal).

Showing Punk in a pub does seem like it could lead somewhere interesting though. And at least the matches will continue to be very good.</font>

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I think it's just because he's not the true center of attention right now. It's Cena and Brock and before that it was Cena and Rock.

He's still the WWE Champion and is having a great feud with Jericho.

[Shisen Kopf]

I think he needs to update his Pepsi tat. They haven't had that logo in years. Get with the times.

[Emperor Smeat]

I think it's just because he's not the true center of attention right now. It's Cena and Brock and before that it was Cena and Rock.

He's still the WWE Champion and is having a great feud with Jericho.

Yeah as decent as his feud wit Jericho is going, the WWE has been more focused on what Cena is doing the past few months than really making what the champion is doing as the main focus. They do have a bad habit of every so often making the champion the second fiddle to someone else for a while.

Punk also doesn't have that shock factor he had initially during the early stage of the Summer of Punk when he was questioning everything but that's due to him turning into a face wrestler.

[Wishbone]

Punk's not doing as well now because he's being booked as the 'underdog champion' at the moment. During the summer of Punk he was booked as a cocky, skilled, showoff and given a chance to drop pipebombs on a regular basis. Now we're lucky if we get a decent insult out of him. It's all "You're gonna go there? Well I'm gonna kick your ass!". He's almost getting a hybrid of Mysterio's underdog and Cena's superman gimmicks.

[Jordan]

He's a straight edge bitch.

[Kane Knight]

I think it's just because he's not the true center of attention right now.

Makes it sound like he's really not all that versatile.

[MoFo]

Everyone realised Vince Russo did that pipebomb gimmick way better 12 yrs ago.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Russo didn't have pipebombs he had stinkbombs.

[Rock Bottom]

I agree that he's being outshined by some of the bigger stars right now. But he'll find a way to deal with that.

As long as he has programs with more of these huge names though, he's going to be there when the smoke clears.

[DrCrawford]

idk, as much as i like cult of personality as a song, i felt the switch in themes killed a lot of his momentum..i really dont know why. cult just feels corny as a theme. this fire made him seem really awesome

[Shadrick]

His theme has nothing to do with it...imo.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

One of the only reasons I watch Raw. he's fine in my book.

[kareru]

give him 5 minutes mic time
let him say what he wants
brace for pipebombs

simple

the wwe 'universe' really digs the rebellious guy that isn't afraid to use 'in jokes' and rip the other wrestlers with a bit of 80's/90's nostalgia thrown in, it hits with the main demographic of wwe/wrestling i.e guys like us, guys of our age.

[Tommy Gunn]

Punk's not doing as well now because he's being booked as the 'underdog champion' at the moment.

This.

[Gertner]

Yeah, it's called ratings.

[El Tigre]

I agree with a lot of the opinions being made here: CM Punk really has seem to have lost some of his edge these past few months, his attitude now is almost in complete contrast to how he was. His feud with Jericho has also been a tad lackluster, and to be honest, I was slightly disappointed by their Mania match. While what they have now does show signs of promise, I think it would have been good to continue that whole "Best is The World" thing, though once again, Mania basically diffused that pipe bomb.

A bit off topic, but with all the references to alcohol, is there a possibility to a CM Punk/Austin feud in the horizon? I feel it's something that been hinted for a while, but if I'm not mistaken, Austin isn't in match condition, which is a shame, because they would play off of each other quite well.

[Cuse8]

i shudder to think if some arent loving this y2j fued, what theyll think when hes feuding with tensai next....

[Kane Knight]

Everyone realised Vince Russo did that pipebomb gimmick way better 12 yrs ago.

But CM Punk does it better because...Ponies?

idk, as much as i like cult of personality as a song, i felt the switch in themes killed a lot of his momentum..i really dont know why. cult just feels corny as a theme. this fire made him seem really awesome

That's a lame reason.



the wwe 'universe' really digs the rebellious guy that isn't afraid to use 'in jokes'

lol

Yeah, it's called ratings.

OH SNAP

[Jordan]

Straight edge people aren't cool. Nobody likes a guy who doesn't drink, smoke and do at least SOME drugs. He needs to be heel. Wrestling fans love pills and crack just like rasslers.

[dingdongyo]

he's no longer pissed off and saying things that WE THINK make the suitdouches cringe. therefore, meh.

[Mr. Nerfect]

*sigh* KK stinks up another thread.

Good points have been made by some, though. Punk and Jericho have worked really hard to make this feud pretty cutting edge, but something is missing from it. I think it's just being overshadowed by names like The Rock and Brock Lesnar coming in and doing their thing. Punk and Jericho haven't really been the story.

Competing against Jericho in Chicago will hopefully light a fire under the Punk movement again. The dude is so over and has consistently delivered in his spot. I don't see him losing it any time soon, even though he does chase away the kiddies and the ladies (not the adult males, though). When Brock Lesnar decides he wants to be the WWE Champion, CM Punk will again be in the central storyline of the WWE, and that will make a difference to how he is perceived, I think.

[Gertner]

*sigh* KK stinks up another thread.

Good points have been made by some, though. Punk and Jericho have worked really hard to make this feud pretty cutting edge, but something is missing from it. I think it's just being overshadowed by names like The Rock and Brock Lesnar coming in and doing their thing. Punk and Jericho haven't really been the story.

Competing against Jericho in Chicago will hopefully light a fire under the Punk movement again. The dude is so over and has consistently delivered in his spot. I don't see him losing it any time soon, even though he does chase away the kiddies and the ladies (not the adult males, though). When Brock Lesnar decides he wants to be the WWE Champion, CM Punk will again be in the central storyline of the WWE, and that will make a difference to how he is perceived, I think.

The "kiddies" and "females" make up the vast majority of the audience. Catering to fat smarks is not the way to go, nor has it ever been. How's ROH been doing with that lol

[Sepholio]

What CM Punk needs is a little RVD.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Yeah as decent as his feud wit Jericho is going, the WWE has been more focused on what Cena is doing the past few months than really making what the champion is doing as the main focus. They do have a bad habit of every so often making the champion the second fiddle to someone else for a while.

Punk also doesn't have that shock factor he had initially during the early stage of the Summer of Punk when he was questioning everything but that's due to him turning into a face wrestler.

Punk's not doing as well now because he's being booked as the 'underdog champion' at the moment. During the summer of Punk he was booked as a cocky, skilled, showoff and given a chance to drop pipebombs on a regular basis. Now we're lucky if we get a decent insult out of him. It's all "You're gonna go there? Well I'm gonna kick your ass!". He's almost getting a hybrid of Mysterio's underdog and Cena's superman gimmicks.

These two posts combine basically explain it for me.

1. He's not the focus
2. He's not in control of the feud

Thinking about how The Rock and Austin used to come off in their feuds, they pretty much owned their opponents even if they lost the big match (rare). When they were face nobody ever seemed to get under their skin...or at least that's how I remember it.

[Maluco]

I think I agree with what is being said about the Jericho feud...it is good, but only because it is two good characters and wrestlers coming together.

SCSA said in an interview very recently that what Punk is lacking is intensity and I can totally see that. This feud is corny and I don't really buy into any real emotions between the two. It looks like a thrown together reason to get the two of them in a ring.

Give him a story where fans can get involved...have him continue to laugh and make fun of things, then have him taken out by Lesnar, a realisation upon coming back that he needs to step up, get serious and get in peoples' faces, could give him that intensity and serious story which could push him over the top.

(And for the record, he was laughed at above, but the guy that said the theme change did him no favours, in my opinion, has a point. It is not a major deal, but it is a more relaxed theme and persona. Fire at least added that intensity upon his entrance and coming down to the ring)

[Kane Knight]

The "kiddies" and "females" make up the vast majority of the audience. Catering to fat smarks is not the way to go, nor has it ever been. How's ROH been doing with that lol

Don't mind Noid. He's just here to stink up another thread. :p

[Kane Knight]

Thinking about how The Rock and Austin used to come off in their feuds, they pretty much owned their opponents even if they lost the big match (rare).

The Rock lost quite a few big matches.

I think this highlights part of the reason the Rock is actually great and Punk is not.

The Rock and Austin also didn't really need to be forced as the focus; it came naturally.

Actually, we could probably come up with a top ten list of major ways Punk isn't even remotely close to the Rock and Austin.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah, it always bugged me how Rock was constantly booked to not be able to back up his shit talk. It is a pretty bad formula for getting a face over in general.

[Blakeamus]

Lost in the shuffle which to me is the norm whenever your WWE champion is NOT John Cena. I still enjoy CM Punk even though he hasn't been the focal point. I love his work in the ring and this stuff with Jericho is actually pretty interesting. I can actually point out ONE major way Punk isn't even remotely close to the Rock and Austin yet, and that's John Cena. If Cena was out of the picture, and CM Punk was the guy to take WWE to new heights, he would definately be up there with Austin/Rock. Atleast that is what I think.

[gradington28]

it's plan & simple cm punk was being overshadowed by cena vs rock and now cena vs brock and it's not going to stop until it's cena vs punk again.

[Lock Jaw]

Even his feud with John Laurinaitis has been pushed out of the way for Johnny Ace to "feud" with Cena using Brock.

If Johnny Ace wanted to make Brock the face of the WWE, wouldn't it have made sense to go after the WWE champion, a dude who it is well known he already detested as champ? Instead of the dude who lost at Mania?

[Swiss Ultimate]

Ohhhh "toolbox", a box people put tools inside. I get it now Punk, when you called Johnny Ace a "toolbox" you were saying that he was like a pincushion for cocks.

[CSL]

I have a friend who's been using toolbox as an insult for years. He's not very bright. This makes me think less of CM Punk.

[DAMN iNATOR]

It seems to me that there are two issues plaguing Punk right now:

1.) While he's still definitely solid on the mic, his promos have become boring and stale. I can see that they're trying to freshen Punk up by having him feud with Jericho and playing up the whole "Can Punk resist alcohol and stay 'straight edge' and retain the WWE Champion after everything Y2J has done to him in recent weeks?" angle, but it doesn't seem to be working nearly as well as planned.

2.) Punk seems to have also lost a lot of his charisma from last summer, when he started dropping "pipe bomb"s and fresh, creative promos that really got the fans drawn in. He was also pretty much at the peak of his in-ring performance at that point in time.

If Punk could find a way to rectify those issues, he'd go right back to being one of the TRULY best wrestlers in the world today.

[CSL]

He's just not the top guy and probably never will be. Outside of being a natural heel playing babyface champion, there's nothing missing

[Gertner]

He's just not the top guy and probably never will be, there's nothing missing (outside of being a natural heel playing babyface champion)

You're going to make the fat virgins here cry. Stop it!

[Gertner]

It seems to me that there are two issues plaguing Punk right now:

1.) While he's still definitely solid on the mic, his promos have become boring and stale. I can see that they're trying to freshen Punk up by having him feud with Jericho and playing up the whole "Can Punk resist alcohol and stay 'straight edge' and retain the WWE Champion after everything Y2J has done to him in recent weeks?" angle, but it doesn't seem to be working nearly as well as planned.

2.) Punk seems to have also lost a lot of his charisma from last summer, when he started dropping "pipe bomb"s and fresh, creative promos that really got the fans drawn in. He was also pretty much at the peak of his in-ring performance at that point in time.

If Punk could find a way to rectify those issues, he'd go right back to being one of the TRULY best wrestlers in the world today.

I recall a certain Gertner who said when this all began that Punk needs to stop making shoot comments all the time in his promos because it'll get old fast, and TPWW jumping all over me.

As usual I'm 100% right.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, it always bugged me how Rock was constantly booked to not be able to back up his shit talk. It is a pretty bad formula for getting a face over in general.

People really didn't pay much attention to his losses. Honestly, you get a big enough star wins and losses don't matter as much.

Something the IWC really doesn't seem to grasp as a whole.

He's just not the top guy and probably never will be. Outside of being a natural heel playing babyface champion, there's nothing missing

Other than people being realistic?

[XL]

People really didn't pay much attention to his losses. Honestly, you get a big enough star wins and losses don't matter as much.
TBF, didn't Punk lose something like 11 out of 12 PPV matches at one point? And he didn't really lose any steam/credibility as a heel.

[XL]

It seems to me that there are two issues plaguing Punk right now:

1.) While he's still definitely solid on the mic, his promos have become boring and stale. I can see that they're trying to freshen Punk up by having him feud with Jericho and playing up the whole "Can Punk resist alcohol and stay 'straight edge' and retain the WWE Champion after everything Y2J has done to him in recent weeks?" angle, but it doesn't seem to be working nearly as well as planned.

2.) Punk seems to have also lost a lot of his charisma from last summer, when he started dropping "pipe bomb"s and fresh, creative promos that really got the fans drawn in. He was also pretty much at the peak of his in-ring performance at that point in time.

If Punk could find a way to rectify those issues, he'd go right back to being one of the TRULY best wrestlers in the world today.
As pointed out by Gertner, the whole "pipebomb"/breaing the fourth wall/kayfabe deal had limited shelf life. The inside jabs were flying well over the heads of the majority of the target audience (which seems to need clarification in this thread: WE ARE NOT THE TARGET AUDIENCE ANYMORE) as early as the "fued" with Nash.

[Fox]

I'll admit that I've been very disappointed with the CM Punk/Jericho angle. The straight edge portion of the angle doesn't work as well against a guy like Jericho, who has never been known to support drugs or alcohol of any kind. It works against someone like Austin or Sandman or RVD or Jeff Hardy, but Jericho? The best thing they had going for the angle was the idea of competing to be the best in the world, and Jericho's obsession with the WWE Championship.

I think a large problem is that they pulled the plug on the Jericho return. He should have won the Rumble - not Sheamus. It would've been the major pay off for his cryptic, silent promos and return. There has been no pay-off for either thus far, and I think they just abandoned the whole concept around the time of the Rumble. What was the video all about? What was with the girl? Who is the "she"? Jericho's rather weak showing at Elimination Chamber didn't help things either.

And of course, Punk has been overshadowed by Cena/Rock, Triple H/Undertaker/HBK, Laurinaitis/Long and now Lesnar/Rock for the past few months. A good point was made earlier in the thread that it would've made more sense for Laurinaitis to sick Lesnar on CM Punk, the WWE Champion, if he was so focused on making Lesnar the new face of RAW. Instead, he goes after John Cena, who is promoted as "the #1 guy" in the WWE, despite not being the WWE Champion or the World Heavyweight Champion. It demeans the championship title and in a way it demeans CM Punk.

[Volare]

Wait till Chi-town.

[BigDaddyCool]

Brock Lesnar is back, who gives a fuck about that cm funk fellow anyhow.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The "kiddies" and "females" make up the vast majority of the audience. Catering to fat smarks is not the way to go, nor has it ever been. How's ROH been doing with that lol

The 18-34 demographic does not equate to fat virgins. It's actually the demographic that advertisers salivate the most over. Yes, the WWE has tried to present itself as a kiddie-product, which is complete nonsense to me (violence being used to solve all problems and degrading women to objects associated with labels is not exactly family-friendly entertainment), but that demographic does not exclusively consist of fat virgins (although most fat virgins do fall within these parameters).

[Mr. Nerfect]

Wait till Chi-town.

Exactly this. CM Punk could establish a jizz-factory at Extreme Rules with the amount of orgasms people will be having for whatever he does. And he's doing everything right, by the way. There is no more consistent performer -- both in the ring and on the mic -- than CM Punk at the moment. Everything he does is absolute quality -- but it's just not catching on like wildfire right now because there is so much that has been going on.

Also, if you want to identify a point where Punk started to lose "white-hot" momentum, it would have been when somehow CM Punk's campaign against the WWE being a stale product ended with Triple H standing all sad in the middle of the ring and upset with his best buddy from the mid-nineties. Punk's well established as a main event force right now, don't get me wrong, but "The Summer of Punk" was not truly properly capitalised on.

Can't wait to see Punk and Jericho's Street Fight, to be honest. I think people should actually wait to see how this feud goes before they claim it hasn't done anything for them as a whole.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I am thinking that maybe things would be best continued by having Chris Jericho win the WWE Title at Extreme Rules, though. The heat this would get in Chicago would be pretty immense. With Punk having recent problems with Mark Henry, and having taken Christian out of WrestleMania; having those two guys help Jericho win the WWE Title could start a nice little (temporary?) heel alliance on RAW for CM Punk to fight out from underneath of.

[whiteyford]

The whole Punk/alcoholic angle played out better with Raven,feels a little forced with Jericho to me.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I entirely get what the WWE is going for. Punk just wanted it to be about who was the better wrestler, but Jericho upped the ante by trying to psyche Punk out as part of his game; and now Jericho's a bitter loser having tapped to Punk at WrestleMania. But I feel that the WWE either needs to go one of two routes with Punk and commit:

1) CM Punk beats Chris Jericho at Extreme Rules and kicks the living shit out of him. This would be a moral victory for Punk in his hometown and reinforce that he's "The Best in the World" and we should all buy his t-shirt. The only thing is that with Punk having done some despicable things in the past (and the WWE having a pretty interesting article about it on WWE.com at the moment), he should try and capture some of that edge back that Stone Cold himself believes is missing by going after Jericho some more after kicking his ass. Have Punk insult Jericho's family, and really rub salt into the wounds of Jericho. No, not as a double-turn; but just as a babyface who does not take shit from anybody, and for whom merely winning a battle in the war is not enough.

Of course, this goes against usual babyface morality, and the WWE is probably very reluctant to do that; but Punk's audience has always been that audience that appreciates "grey areas." The WWE can either embrace that or try to widen Punk's appeal, in which case:

2) CM Punk shows some vulnerability to Jericho and has a reason to drop "pipe-bombs" and generally be an unpleasant guy. It shouldn't be clean, but if Jericho stole the WWE Title from Punk, then it'd give Punk a gripe and something to chase -- and babyfaces are usually better in the chase. Punk losing to Jericho would give Jericho something to hold over Punk and give us that old story of redemption against the tyrannical villain who usurped the throne.

Either way the WWE goes, I think a reason people aren't feeling "connected" to CM Punk at the moment is really because his story is at a path where it can go one of two ways, and the WWE hasn't really committed to either, yet. Well, actually, I think it will go down a third path of Punk beating Jericho and then acting like nothing ever happened -- which I think would be a lateral move for the character.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I mean, imagine a scenario where Punk defeats Jericho again and then comes out on RAW and says that he's still The Best in the World and proves it every night, but he's not finished with Jericho. He's not finished proving how wrong Jericho has been his entire career. He wants Jericho to come out and tell him how it feels to know that every time Jericho called himself the future of this company, or "The King of the World" or "The Best in the World at What He Does," it all turned out to be false. For over twenty years, Jericho's career has been building him to be the measuring stick that CM Punk surpasses. And to make it worse for Chris, CM Punk's not even going to ask him to induct him into the Hall of Fame when he goes in.

Basically, Punk just rubs salt into all of Jericho's wounds, and literally tears his career apart before the audience. Jericho comes out because he can't take it and says that he knows he can beat CM Punk, because he's just a Chris Jericho wannabe and all that. Jericho reminds us of all his Hall of Fame accomplishments, and says that Punk has no respect for him. Punk makes a challenge for Jericho then: CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho -- WWE Championship on the line with the added stipulation that the loser must leave the WWE. Punk says that he wants Chris Jericho out of his company; he wants to cause Jericho the emotional pain that Jericho tried to cause him; and, like Jeff Hardy, he wants to add another Superstar to the list of people he's completely out-shined. Jericho says that he does not accept, and Punk calls Jericho all sorts of names under the sun.

The storyline heading into Over the Limit between Punk and Jericho is basically Punk making life hell for Jericho, giving back what he got given, and trying to get a match with Jericho with both their careers on the line -- because he's so certain he can beat Jericho a third time. It could be amazingly epic and a great little attraction for Over the Limit.

[Hanso Amore]

Im not a huge Punk guy, but every single match I have seen him in this year going back to Ziggler at the Rumble have been fucking amazing.

[Hanso Amore]

In that light he is still growing his "brand". Fans now know hes going to have the best match of the night. YEha, he has been overshadowed. But its hard not to be when two of the biggest names in Wrestling come back after 7 years.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hanso is exactly right.

I kind of want to see Christian cost CM Punk the WWE Title and Punk and Christian to have a bit of a feud. That would be pretty awesome from an in-ring standpoint and a great way to reintroduce Christian with meaning.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

This is a question to everybody, but I also especially want it answered by CM Punk fans: When do you think Punk will lose the title and to whom?

I can't even wrap my head around Punk losing the title to venture a guess.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

I recall a certain Gertner who said when this all began that Punk needs to stop making shoot comments all the time in his promos because it'll get old fast, and TPWW jumping all over me.

As usual I'm 100% right.

At the core shooting is about being honest. He might not give away insider stuff like he used to, but he is still being himself in his promos.

He's still rebellious enough to say professional wrestling and actually pulled off saying WWF on Raw when he faked being drunk.

When was the last time he said World Wrestling Entertainment?

[Mr. Nerfect]

If Chris Jericho doesn't somehow win the WWE Title from CM Punk at some point, then I see Brock Lesnar taking it before the summer is over.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Bummer of Punk :(

[Juan]

He's fine

[#1-norm-fan]

I said in the Raw thread that the thing with him and Jericho last night reminded me of something from the attitude era with Austin. Punk was incredible in it. If they could do something like that weekly, it would almost force itself into being the main focus.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Pretty sure you're the anti-Hasney. I didn't enjoy that segment and was the first Punk-centric segment I hadn't really enjoyed since last summer.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Not a huge fan of Punk on RAW. Usually a fan of his for the most part as even through poor booking he's able to maintain a HUGE connection with the fans.

The problem on RAW for me was it seemed like he was following a script, written by a bunch of virgins. Which I think is exactly what he was doing.

[#1-norm-fan]

Pretty sure you're the anti-Hasney. I didn't enjoy that segment and was the first Punk-centric segment I hadn't really enjoyed since last summer.

The whole story that built from the gift basket, to him keeping a bottle, then Alex Riley snitching leading up to Punk's angry drunk acting...

I thought he was great during the in-ring segment with the drunken WWF and Karate Kid thing for the cop. The only issue I had was I wish he would have gone more of a 180 with the "Oops... looks like SOMEONE's actually sober ;)" thing. The slow backwards ABCs and the walking the line were too slow of a reveal. I wanted that moment where the crowd realized what Punk did and slowly started to pop as it hit them.

He was still pretty genius. And Jericho's weasel-like anxious "See! Now gimme the title! Gimme!" thing was subtly great too.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Their match at Extreme Rules is going to be really special, I think. Being in Chicago will really help. The finish, which I assume will be Punk getting Jericho back with a bottle over the head will be a perfect way to cap-off the feud.

Your two biggest stories coming from Extreme Rules will be Punk retaining and Lesnar destroying Cena. You've started your build to your Punk vs. Lesnar showdown right there.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think Brock's going to go over but they're totally going to blow it. Cena's going to get about 15-20 minutes of Offense and Brock's going to need like 5 guys to interfere. And then they'll wonder why he's not drawing.

[Swiss Ultimate]

It'll work better if Brock and Cena go toe-to-toe and the interference is during a moment in the match where Cena is already down.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Or if Lesnar just beats the hell out of him. You can't have a "monster" look vulnerable in his very first match. He's not some chicken shit heel. He's a bad dude, and he likes to hurt people.

[Swiss Ultimate]

You can when he's fighting Thuganomics Cena a guy who has taken Lesnar out in the past.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Then he's just like any other star. He loses what makes him special. Cena won't be hurt by getting steamrolled by Brock, Brock's drawing power will be hurt by being "just another heel".

[Shadrick]

I said in the Raw thread that the thing with him and Jericho last night reminded me of something from the attitude era with Austin. Punk was incredible in it. If they could do something like that weekly, it would almost force itself into being the main focus.

I agree with this. For the first time in a while I was genuinely interested in a segment. Punk was entertaining with the fake drunk; it allowed him to show a much more humorous lax side of his character.

[Shadrick]

I honestly think Brock is going to destroy Cena. Pin him clean. I don't think Cena will be superman at all.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think Cena's gotta atleast put up a fight. Lesnar can still look like a monster but a) You can't keep destroying the guy all the little kids (' parents) pay to see time and time again. It would be like if Superman was defeated at the end every time. Eventually the kids don't wanna read the comic anymore. And b) You gotta atleast make an effort to show that the UFC guy isn't THAT much better than the pro wrestler. Lesnar just destroying Cena because he's the actual fighter kinda just says "UFC is more legit" when they're trying to give off an aura that that's not the case.

Cena winning would kinda be awesome storyline wise after the Edge speech and the idea being given that Cena is scared and Lesnar is the dick-head bully. Lesnar getting his comeuppance would be a feel good story. Just don't think it's gonna happen and probably won't be good long-term with that they're trying to do with Cena.

Cena showing tons of heart and actually competing with Lesnar and Lesnar giving a "What the fuck, how is this guy keeping up with me in a fight right now" look at some point and then ultimately someone interfering and Lesnar winning it doesn't bring Lesnar down. It only brings Cena up. If booked that way, you get the feeling Lesnar still probably would have won but someone still interfered. Maybe even a subtle Laurinaitis or Vince run-in.

[#1-norm-fan]

I genuinely have no clue how this match is going to end though so they've successfully captured that feeling for me for the second straight PPV.

[Shadrick]

I think Lesnar destroying Cena this time won't be the end of the character. Cena would have to lose PPV after PPV time after time with NO type of progression in his character at all for the kids to not want to watch him anymore.

But you're right. It's weird to me, but just like I "KNEW" Orton was gonna win at Mania, he lost. Just like I "KNEW" Jericho was gonna win the Rumble, he didn't. And this time I just "KNOW" Lesnar is gonna destroy Cena....but we will see.

[Damndirty]

Look, it's not that complicated guys. Here's the problem---- Punk is playing off "too" much babyfacing. Yes! I love the guy, he's a pretty big inspiration, but good guys always helping good guys... people have blown that off when Hulk was no longer that superhero. I remember both Austin and the Rock treating the other faces like enemies or wastes of their time on most occasions, in which they'd get the finisher dealt upon them, and people would FREAK. Even Cena, though he is the most popular (boos and cheers mixed I might add) at the moment, doesn't even get that much of attention, because he is doing the same thing, he just had more time than Punk. Punk is just not a "don't give a shit" person as much as the Attitude superfaces were, though if given enough time to be, he could excell Cena.

[Heyman]

He was so hot last summer and kinda seemed like the next mega-star of wrestling.

As has been the case on many occasions for the WWE since 2001, they simply do not know how to successfully transition/convert successful heels into successful faces........due to the fact that they try and 'alter' the character too much so it's more "fan friendly." Unfortunately - the fans don't care about "good guys".......they care about dynamic characters. This is exactly why Steve Austin and The Rock were so wildly successful when they became faces after lengthy heel runs. Their bad ass personna stayed almost the exact same.

CM Punk going over John Cena last year in Chicago was one of the greatest things for the industry in a LONG time (i.e. probably since Orton defeated Benoit in Summerslam 2004).

Unfortunately, as was the case with Orton in 2004 and with Lesnar in 2002, the WWE tried to do too much with the newly turned face character instead of keeping things as is.

My best advice for the WWE? Instead of attempting to convert wildly successful heels into wildly successful faces (something which they haven't been able to do since 2001), turn these wildly successful heels into wildly successful tweeners first. Let them be tweener for a long time before gradually turning them into a face.

[Heyman]

My best advice for the WWE? Instead of attempting to convert wildly successful heels into wildly successful faces (something which they haven't been able to do since 2001), turn these wildly successful heels into wildly successful tweeners first. Let them be tweener for a long time before gradually turning them into a face.

With this in mind, I would have CM Punk go into "tweener" mode instead of being a full-fledged face. The next time The Rock comes back, have him shoot on The Rock.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think Cena's gotta atleast put up a fight. Lesnar can still look like a monster but a) You can't keep destroying the guy all the little kids (' parents) pay to see time and time again. It would be like if Superman was defeated at the end every time. Eventually the kids don't wanna read the comic anymore. And b) You gotta atleast make an effort to show that the UFC guy isn't THAT much better than the pro wrestler. Lesnar just destroying Cena because he's the actual fighter kinda just says "UFC is more legit" when they're trying to give off an aura that that's not the case.

Cena winning would kinda be awesome storyline wise after the Edge speech and the idea being given that Cena is scared and Lesnar is the dick-head bully. Lesnar getting his comeuppance would be a feel good story. Just don't think it's gonna happen and probably won't be good long-term with that they're trying to do with Cena.

Well, it did happen, and I agree with your line of thinking there.

As for CM Punk, Heyman is not entirely wrong with what he's saying. I don't think it's a case of Punk needing to be a heel or a tweener; but rather the ideals of his character last year have almost entirely been forgotten. Why did Punk snap and shoot on Cena and the entire WWE? Because he was sick of Cena being treated as "golden boy" whilst CM Punk was told he can't be "the guy." Essentially. Yet here is CM Punk happy to be wrestling in the second-to-last match on the card? Bollocks. Punk should have been right there telling Cena and Rock that their match isn't the main event of WrestleMania; his match with Chris Jericho for the WWE Championship is.