Hmmmm, Daniel Bryan and Cm Punk are franchise players right?

[Gertner]

CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan and Lord Tensai in the overrun actually lost viewers – 105,000 for a 2.94 rating. It’s almost impossible to lose viewers in the overrun because you’ve got people tuning into the USA Network for their next show.


Feel free to blow me at your will.

[itsmeJD]

Funny thing is that I saw this, and thought to myself, "Wonder if Gertner is aware of this?"

[Gertner]

Gertner is always aware of everything.

[XL]

TBF, maybe 2 people here have referred to Punk and Bryan as "Franchise Players".

[Droford]

blame it on Albert

[Gertner]

TBF, maybe 2 people here have referred to Punk and Bryan as "Franchise Players".

I've seen multiple people refer to these two at least as main eventers. Which they are not.

[Kane Knight]

I've seen multiple people refer to these two at least as main eventers. Which they are not.

They obviously are. They outpopped DX after all.

[itsmeJD]

TBF, maybe 2 people here have referred to Punk and Bryan as "Franchise Players".

Blowjobs are blowjobs, whether it's 2, or 20.

[Blakeamus]

blame it on The Mongolian
Fixed.

[Indifferent Clox]

Blame it on the black star
Blame it on the falling sky
Blame it on the satellite that beams me home

[Wishbone]

And the Rock's return match at survivor series did horrible numbers so he must not be a "Main Eventer" either.

[Gertner]

Blame it on the black star
Blame it on the falling sky
Blame it on the satellite that beams me home

How about your fat gf

[Gertner]

And the Rock's return match at survivor series did horrible numbers so he must not be a "Main Eventer" either.

How'd Wrestlemania go

[MoFo]

:lol:

April 30
Daniel Bryan vs. Jerry Lawler in the final match lost 198,000 viewers.

April 16
The Daniel Bryan vs. Kofi Kingston match lost 603,000 viewers for a 2.84 quarter rating.

March 20
Daniel Bryan vs. Zack Ryder lost 418,000 viewers.

Feb 27
Punk vs. Daniel Bryan lost 289,000 viewers.

Feb 20
Daniel Bryan vs. Santino Marella lost 932,000 viewers.

Feb 6
Big Show vs. Daniel Bryan lost 508,000 viewers.

[Wishbone]

Punk's proven to be good for business so the argument is invalid on him. MoFo's data if correct shows that if anything it's Daniel Bryan who's the cause here, though Tensai probably didn't help any.

[Wishbone]

To be fair any 'new' star is going to lose viewers at this point though. WWE hasn't built anyone up as a real deal in ages so it's no wonder people don't take them seriously.

[Blakeamus]

I hate how we look deep into the "numbers" to determine our opinions on wrestling matches/segments.

[Wishbone]

Blakeamus is right. Back in the day, before all these numbers were available to the fans we wouldn't even be having a conversation this stupid. Honestly I almost miss the days when we had to just go by what WWE let us know.

[Gertner]

Yes, God forbid the truth coming out

[MoFo]

I watch Raw on Youtube specifically so I can skip Daniel Bryan stuff, its just funny to laugh at how many ppl hate him though.

[Blakeamus]

Yes, God forbid that we can't have an opinion without being influenced by what the "numbers" show.

[Gertner]

It's a friggen business. Of course you have to go by numbers.

[Blakeamus]

I can go with your opinion of how you feel towards Daniel Bryan as a worker, but when I see people make their opinions by "going by the numbers", I wonder if the person is really a fan of "wrestling" or a fan of the ratings. They seemed too concern on what they scooped up from information.

It's a business and numbers are important...YES! But let VINCE MCMAHON be concern of his BUSINESS. Let's enjoy wrestling without spoiling ourselves over numbers to determine our views on the product!

[CSL]

Honestly I almost miss the days when we had to just go by what WWE let us know.

you're the one that logs onto the wrestling internet message board

[blake639raw]

I remember reading there was a RAW sometime in 97 headlined by Steve Austin vs. Undertaker, which was the lowest rated RAW at the time. Besides, it's not like Cena is such a huge ratings draw. I wish somebody could pull up the numbers during Cena's first year on top. He sells shitloads of merch, sure, but so does Punk.

[blake639raw]

Plus, JBL was such a ratings draw too, wasn't he Gertner?

[screech]

It's a friggen business. Of course you have to go by numbers.

Yes it is, but I'm not involved in the business so I don't have to go by (or give a shit about) the numbers.

[Gertner]

Plus, JBL was such a ratings draw too, wasn't he Gertner?

Never said he was. He's my favourite wrestler. I'm just not a fan boy who spew bull shit.

[CSL]

http://www.fly-fishing-discounters.com/images/how-i-caught-a-fish-on-another-line-21385560.jpg

http://www.fwi.co.uk/blogs/rural-life/fly-fishing.jpg

[Gertner]

Yes it is, but I'm not involved in the business so I don't have to go by (or give a shit about) the numbers.

You do when people claim that Daniel Bryan is this huge sensation, should be main eventing, some people saying he's a "franchise player", when it's completely obvious that he isn't a ratings draw at all. You shouldn't be losing viewers in your main events.

[Blakeamus]

Okay is your opinion of Daniel Bryan influenced by the "numbers" Gertner?

[blake639raw]

Ok, well, even if Punk isn't a "franchise player" (who really is these days though, tbf), he's still a credible main eventer, and it didn't take him several years of being forced down everybody's throats as a big deal to get there (I'm looking at you Orton). I can see why the overhyping by the IWC of certain guys is annoying, but to act like he doesn't have any appeal is ludicrous. Daniel Bryan, on the other hand, is a great talent, but definitely not franchise material. He's a guy that is credible in a top spot when they need him, but not someone who draws big money. He can have a good match with anybody and make them look good. You need a few guys like that hovering around.

[parkmania]

Blame it on the black star
Blame it on the falling sky
Blame it on the satellite that beams me home

Blame it on the rain that was fallin', fallin'
Blame it on the stars that shine at night

[CSL]

Ok, well, even if Punk isn't a "franchise player" (who really is these days though, tbf)

since you're asking:

John Cena
Randy Orton
The Rock
The Undertaker
Triple H
Brock Lesnar

[Kane Knight]

I hate how we look deep into the "numbers" to determine our opinions on wrestling matches/segments.

'Course, that's not what's being done here. At worst, it's using the numbers to justify existing feelings.

[CSL]

...and it didn't take him several years of being forced down everybody's throats as a big deal to get there (I'm looking at you Orton)

and this part is false

[DaveBrawl]

http://www.fwi.co.uk/blogs/rural-life/fly-fishing.jpg

That pole doesn't look capable of catching that fish. Something doesn't smell right here.

[CSL]

Orton being shoved down people's throats that is

[CSL]

That pole doesn't look capable of catching that fish. Something doesn't smell right here.

definitely the fish, bets he stinks up close

[Gertner]

Okay is your opinion of Daniel Bryan influenced by the "numbers" Gertner?

It's justifying my opinion

[Blakeamus]

And the Rock's return match at survivor series did horrible numbers so he must not be a "Main Eventer" either.

A perfect example. Rock couldn't draw big numbers for Survivor Series, but draw well for WM. The reason it didn't appeal more buys for Survivor Series was the storytelling. Why have ROCK accept Cena's offer to be a tag partner when he didn't like him? Where is my traditional survivor series matches? If you want to blame "the numbers" on anyone, blame it on the writers.

[Blakeamus]

'Course, that's not what's being done here. At worst, it's using the numbers to justify existing feelings.

What I am getting at is people who has their feeligns influenced ONLY on numbers.

[CSL]

yeah, I don't think the Survivor Series buys suddenly go through the roof if the card is fillled with traditional Survivor Series matches. Outside of the pretty obvious outcome, the booking was fine. That card was going to do roughly that number regardless. That post appears to be based on Wrestling Internet Fact #2,313, which is "Miz is in the doghouse for the Survivor Series buyrate". And the Mania buyrate wasn't down to just Rock, it was a year long build ft. a match between two of WWE's top guys ever going against each other for the first time. Survivor Series was never going come close to that no matter what they were doing.

[Blakeamus]

It's justifying my opinion

Well that is why I ask, because sometimes it's seems that people give their opinion solely on the numbers...I figured that you were justifying it, because I have read your posts of how you feel about Daniel Bryan. But I am talking about how when a poster or a "wrestling fan" proclaims this guy sucks BECAUSE of the numbers.

[Blakeamus]

yeah, I don't think the Survivor Series buys suddenly go through the roof if the card is fillled with traditional Survivor Series matches. Outside of the pretty obvious outcome, the booking was fine. That card was going to do roughly that number regardless. That post appears to be based on Wrestling Internet Fact #2,313, which is "Miz is in the doghouse for the Survivor Series buyrate". And the Mania buyrate wasn't down to just Rock, it was a year long build ft. a match between two of WWE's top guys ever going against each other for the first time. Survivor Series was never going come close to that no matter what they were doing.

I know Survivor Series was never going to come close, and the booking was fine. But I was thinking, what if? Like, what could of been done to give it just a little bit of a spike in PPV buys. The "Miz was to blame for Survivor Series buyrate" was ridiculous.

[Curd]

I know Survivor Series was never going to come close, and the booking was fine. But I was thinking, what if? Like, what could of been done to give it just a little bit of a spike in PPV buys. The "Miz was to blame for Survivor Series buyrate" was ridiculous.

Partially to blame for Survivor Series having lower numbers than Wrestlemania is that some casual marks mistake SS as a tie-in for the TV show "Survivor."

[dronepool]

:lol:

It's only obvious that Gertner has somehow pulled a Doctor Doom and has an army of Gertbots stationed everywhere programmed to changing the channel every time Daniel Bryan is on.

[blake639raw]

since you're asking:

John Cena
Randy Orton
The Rock
The Undertaker
Triple H
Brock Lesnar Taker, Rock, & HHH got over during a time period when things weren't rushed, and characters were allowed more time to grow organically. Cena, I'll give you, but it took years of him beating everybody to get to that point. If Punk went on a 5 year winning streak and 10 world titles, he'd be at that point probably. Lesnar I'll give you, although his UFC run helped make him into the powerhouse draw he is now. And even though I like Orton to some degree, and he is one of the biggest stars of this era, he has never been a household name on the level of the other names mentioned really.

[CSL]

Cena's been their "franchise player" from pretty much the moment they decided he was going to be "the guy", him beating everybody is a by-product of that. If WWE really thought Punk was that guy, don't doubt for a second that he'd get the same treatment. And Orton is pretty much untouchable at this point, he's the #2 guy behind Cena out of all of the "full-timers". If he wants to, he'll still be winning world titles and main eventing in 5 years. We can't say the same thing about Punk with any kind of certainty. And none of those guys are household names outside of Rock and maybe Brock.

[Kane Knight]

What I am getting at is people who has their feeligns influenced ONLY on numbers.

Really? And who are these imaginary people?

Cena's been their "franchise player" from pretty much the moment they decided he was going to be "the guy", him beating everybody is a by-product of that. If WWE really thought Punk was that guy, don't doubt for a second that he'd get the same treatment. And Orton is pretty much untouchable at this point, he's the #2 guy behind Cena out of all of the "full-timers". If he wants to, he'll still be winning world titles and main eventing in 5 years. We can't say the same thing about Punk with any kind of certainty. And none of those guys are household names outside of Rock and maybe Brock.

Yes, but you see, you're using logic.

[blake639raw]

Cena's been their "franchise player" from pretty much the moment they decided he was going to be "the guy", him beating everybody is a by-product of that. If WWE really thought Punk was that guy, don't doubt for a second that he'd get the same treatment. And Orton is pretty much untouchable at this point, he's the #2 guy behind Cena out of all of the "full-timers". If he wants to, he'll still be winning world titles and main eventing in 5 years. We can't say the same thing about Punk with any kind of certainty. And none of those guys are household names outside of Rock and maybe Brock. I'm not debating anything you say here. My only point is that Punk isn't on Cena's level because the WWE doesn't want him to be, or see that value in him. Orton is untouchable, you're right. The WWE decided in 2002-03 that Cena & Orton were gonna be the big stars of this era. The WWE really hasn't gotten behind anybody new in such a big way since, so to blame Punk and say "Oh, he isn't on there level". Well, of course not, he hasn't gotten that multi year push. I don't know if he'll get to Cena's status or not, but I definitely think he could surpass Orton with time, as he's much more versatile.

[CSL]

I'm not debating anything you say here. My only point is that Punk isn't on Cena's level because the WWE doesn't want him to be, or see that value in him. Orton is untouchable, you're right. The WWE decided in 2002-03 that Cena & Orton were gonna be the big stars of this era. The WWE really hasn't gotten behind anybody new in such a big way since, so to blame Punk and say "Oh, he isn't on there level". Well, of course not, he hasn't gotten that multi year push. I don't know if he'll get to Cena's status or not, but I definitely think he could surpass Orton with time, as he's much more versatile.

If WWE really thought Punk was that guy, don't doubt for a second that he'd get the same treatment.

you seem to think making stars is as simple as pushing them for as long and as hard as possible and that couldn't be further from the truth. If CM Punk was destined to be the next huge professional wrestling superstar on "that scale", we would have seen it happen by now. You don't need to push a guy forever to get there, the guy will have something, it will click and then it snowballs. This isn't a slate on Punk as you seem to think it is, he's just never going to be "that guy". You can count on your fingers the guys in history that ever have been. And I don't at all see how Punk is "much more" versatile than Orton. I'd say he cuts a better heel promo and is probably more consistent in terms of match quality. That's about it. As for surpassing him, I highly doubt it. Listen to the reaction Orton gets despite the fact he's essentially been filling holes for the last 9-12 months whilst Punk has been having the push of his life. Kind of says it all.

[screech]

You do when people claim that Daniel Bryan is this huge sensation, should be main eventing, some people saying he's a "franchise player", when it's completely obvious that he isn't a ratings draw at all. You shouldn't be losing viewers in your main events.

As a fan, I still don't have to worry about the numbers. I can like a certain guy without knowing whether or not he's a ratings draw. If I'm a fan of someone, I'll tune in to watch no matter what he's doing.

That is, he would be a draw for me and I still wouldn't have to care about the ratings one bit.

[CSL]

he's not saying that the numbers affect whether he likes Daniel Bryan or not, he already dislikes him, he counteracts with numbers to those who claim that he should be WWE's top guy, being pushed to the moon and so forth. Just in quite a robust way. Only a bunch of fans of CM Punk and Daniel Bryan appear to want to take exception to this and see it as damning slate as a whole. If the thread consisted of Gertner telling everybody how they're bland vanilla midgets with nothing to offer, I could understand most of the responses.

[blake639raw]

you seem to think making stars is as simple as pushing them for as long and as hard as possible and that couldn't be further from the truth. If CM Punk was destined to be the next huge professional wrestling superstar on "that scale", we would have seen it happen by now. You don't need to push a guy forever to get there, the guy will have something, it will click and then it snowballs. This isn't a slate on Punk as you seem to think it is, he's just never going to be "that guy". You can count on your fingers the guys in history that ever have been. And I don't at all see how Punk is "much more" versatile than Orton. I'd say he cuts a better heel promo and is probably more consistent in terms of match quality. That's about it. As for surpassing him, I highly doubt it. Listen to the reaction Orton gets despite the fact he's essentially been filling holes for the last 9-12 months whilst Punk has been having the push of his life. Kind of says it all. It's just that Cena has to be the least liked top babyface ever. Once he became a main eventer, they dropped everything from his act that got him over so big in the first place. If any other top babyface got the reactions he got, they would have been depushed. Cena has got booed by half the crowd for years, and they play it off by saying he's "controversial." No matter how much they try, nobody really see's him on the level of The Rock or Hogan. I'm not saying that Punk is necessarily the "next big thing", or anything like that, but at least he's a babyface that doesn't get booed out of every building. No avenue of business has increased with Cena on top besides merch sales. And also, I don't believe that all it takes is a big push to get to the top. However, that's pretty much what they have done with Cena really. Austin, Hogan, Rock, or none of those guys had to win as much as Cena did to make a name. It just seems that the WWE doesn't know how to build stars longterm anymore, and there plan with Cena was just to have him plow through everybody, instead of listening to the crowds.

[screech]

he's not saying that the numbers affect whether he likes Daniel Bryan or not, he already dislikes him, he counteracts with numbers to those who claim that he should be WWE's top guy, being pushed to the moon and so forth. Just in quite a robust way. Only a bunch of fans of CM Punk and Daniel Bryan appear to want to take exception to this and see it as damning slate as a whole. If the thread consisted of Gertner telling everybody how they're bland vanilla midgets with nothing to offer, I could understand most of the responses.


I know he doesn't like Bryan, and I never said Bryan was a franchise player. But I don't have to look at the numbers as a fan because I'm going to tune in when someone I like is featured whether lots of others do or not.

[blake639raw]

I know he doesn't like Bryan, and I never said Bryan was a franchise player. But I don't have to look at the numbers as a fan because I'm going to tune in when someone I like is featured whether lots of others do or not. Yeah, pretty much. I would never argue that Daniel Bryan is a franchise player. Anybody who says he is is delusional. However, he fills a void left when Benoit died. He's an old school technician, who appeals to a niche. A good guy to have around, very talented, but not interesting to the casual fan. At the end of the day, I like who I like. Justin Bieber sells more records than Testament, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's better.

[blake639raw]

It's just that Cena has to be the least liked top babyface ever. Once he became a main eventer, they dropped everything from his act that got him over so big in the first place. If any other top babyface got the reactions he got, they would have been depushed. Cena has got booed by half the crowd for years, and they play it off by saying he's "controversial." No matter how much they try, nobody really see's him on the level of The Rock or Hogan. I'm not saying that Punk is necessarily the "next big thing", or anything like that, but at least he's a babyface that doesn't get booed out of every building. No avenue of business has increased with Cena on top besides merch sales. And also, I don't believe that all it takes is a big push to get to the top. However, that's pretty much what they have done with Cena really. Austin, Hogan, Rock, or none of those guys had to win as much as Cena did to make a name. It just seems that the WWE doesn't know how to build stars longterm anymore, and there plan with Cena was just to have him plow through everybody, instead of listening to the crowds. Ok, well, maybe Hogan did, but times were different back then. Plus, people weren't sick to death of him winning all the time.

[CSL]

It's just that Cena has to be the least liked top babyface ever. Once he became a main eventer, they dropped everything from his act that got him over so big in the first place. If any other top babyface got the reactions he got, they would have been depushed. Cena has got booed by half the crowd for years, and they play it off by saying he's "controversial." No matter how much they try, nobody really see's him on the level of The Rock or Hogan. I'm not saying that Punk is necessarily the "next big thing", or anything like that, but at least he's a babyface that doesn't get booed out of every building. No avenue of business has increased with Cena on top besides merch sales. And also, I don't believe that all it takes is a big push to get to the top. However, that's pretty much what they have done with Cena really. Austin, Hogan, Rock, or none of those guys had to win as much as Cena did to make a name. It just seems that the WWE doesn't know how to build stars longterm anymore, and there plan with Cena was just to have him plow through everybody, instead of listening to the crowds.

about the Cena booing stuff (gonna go all science right now, well for #1 anyway):

1. booing is a much deeper sound than a cheer coming from anybody. 2,000 people booing (especially when it's mostly made up of 18-30 year old males) in a 10,000 people strong crowd is always going come across really quite loud. This doesn't mean it's a majority, half or any hugely significant number of people except for in certain situations (see: against Rock, in Chicago against Punk, in a "smart" city, the Mania crowd made up from across the world etc)

2. most of those booing Cena these days don't even know why they're doing it (check out everytime he does something unexpected/"cool" and check out the pops (worked) before some of them realize they're supposed to be booing, you know, because it's cool and stuff)

3. if John Cena was around in the Hogan era that you mention, he'd have been a monster. Vice versa if Hogan was just coming through today (he'd get "The Cena Pop")

4. the amount of merch he shifts pretty much speaks for itself in terms of just how popular he is. The vast majority of the people as far as I can see that boo Cena are internet/smart/wannabe smart/follow the crowd fans. WWE's paying audience in terms of live gates, merch, PPV buys etc is mostly made from the casual/non smart fan. The amount of casual male fans I come across who are Cena fans always "pleasantly" surprises me.

5. I'll admit, I'd love to see him turn heel, I've said for years that with the amount of ammunition/natural build he has for a heel turn, it could be incredible. But it has nothing to really do with listening to the crowds. What good does it do turning a guy heel just because small parts of the crowd want to regularly boo him, only for the next top guy to start getting booed by the same people because now he's the popular blue eye going up against what would probably be a "very cool" heel in John Cena? When it comes down to it, the boos don't really mean anything.

I know he doesn't like Bryan, and I never said Bryan was a franchise player. But I don't have to look at the numbers as a fan because I'm going to tune in when someone I like is featured whether lots of others do or not.

and I don't think you'll find anything from Gertner in this thread that says you can't or shouldn't do that

[Shisen Kopf]

CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan and Lord Tensai in the overrun actually lost viewers – 105,000 for a 2.94 rating. It’s almost impossible to lose viewers in the overrun because you’ve got people tuning into the USA Network for their next show.


Feel free to blow me at your will.


Dude, the reason this shat stinks is because of that wannabe Jap. That damn Jap Albert is the worst thing to happen to pro rasslin since I was banned from the C-fed here.

[Autobahn]

But Gertner still likes Dean Ambrose, right?

[blake639raw]

I had a big response typed up, and my connection messed up, and I can't be arsed to type it up again. I will say though that as far as his merch sales go, he probably has more merch than anybody out there today, so of course his merch is gonna fly off the shelves. His main demo is kids, even if he does have some adult fans, so of course mommy and daddy are gonna buy little Jimmy the new Cena shirt that comes out every month or so. Not to mention the hats, wristbands, backpacks, ect, ect.

As far as a heel turn, I agree. If they turned him into a "cool" heel, it would be pointless. My idea was always to turn him, and keep him as the franchise and pretty much the same, but have him act oblivious to the boos. Have Vince back him and follow him around everywhere, decked out in all the Cena gear, from head to toe, being his personal cheerleader. The perfect time for this would have been the Punk feud, if it wasn't for the Rock thing on the horizon.

[CSL]

I had a big response typed up, and my connection messed up, and I can't be arsed to type it up again. I will say though that as far as his merch sales go, he probably has more merch than anybody out there today, so of course his merch is gonna fly off the shelves. His main demo is kids, even if he does have some adult fans, so of course mommy and daddy are gonna buy little Jimmy the new Cena shirt that comes out every month or so. Not to mention the hats, wristbands, backpacks, ect, ect.

again, his amount of merch goes in hand with him being the top guy, which is a by-product of his popularity/star power/"it factor", which is why he became a "franchise player" in the first place. You think all of those things fly off the shelves if they put anybody else's name on there? You think if Kofi Kingston had the same amount of merch knocking around that he'd do a tenth of Cena's numbers? Because believe me if that was the case, they'd do it, look at Zack Ryder and how quickly his stuff started coming out as soon as he gained momentum.

You're allowed to dislike the guy if you want, you don't need to create reasons to do so.

[BigBad138]

since you're asking:

John Cena
Randy Orton
The Rock
The Undertaker
Triple H
Brock Lesnar
unfortunately only two of these people are really active. would love to see the last four in a fatal 4 way at mania tho

[el bobbo]

Can anyone mention how the Nielson ratings are pretty much BS these days?

A lot of people on this board watch Raw through a stream or later on through a stream. Those who don't watch it live will watch it on DVR, then those who miss it will catch the important parts through TPWW or other dirtsheets.

Im going to say that Raw has fucking sucked since Extreme Rules, but this is going to be a lull period for the company. They need to build new people (Brodus, Tensai, RyBack) then they are going to push at Summerslam, then go through another lull until the next WM season.

[el bobbo]

IMO

Have Orton play a more vital part in the company over the summer and not be in Smackdown matches.

If you want to get Tensai over, stop pretending he's Japanese and have him speak against Punk and Orton throughout the summer.

[el bobbo]

When Cena gets back from his divorce shit, make him heel. Have him Albert and Orton claim that the WWE is their's.

Have them go against the people like Punk, Daniel Bryan, and whoever else want to claim the WWE as the "new" place for actual wrestlers.

Punk and Bryan already have enough clout to make them look like legit competition to Orton and Cena.

[Juan]

Ok Gertner wins. Now what?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't really get the point of this thread. We've established that Lord Tensai is a terrible draw and...

[XL]

Blowjobs are blowjobs, whether it's 2, or 20.

Handjobs aren't blowjobs just because 2 people say they are.

[Indifferent Clox]

You guys realize that the ratings are just pol who watched the whole thing live or on.DVD in the first 24 hours without fast forwarding or changing the channel.

[Avenger]

You realise that someone just said that, right?

[#BROKEN Hasney]

You guys realize that the ratings are just pol who watched the whole thing live or on.DVD in the first 24 hours without fast forwarding or changing the channel.

You realise that someone just said that, right?

Nobody mentioned the ratings for people watching on.DVD in the first 24 hours.

[Big Vic]

I am guessing people tuned away because they realized the was going to be no HHH/Cena/Brock that night.

[Kane Knight]

As a fan, I still don't have to worry about the numbers. I can like a certain guy without knowing whether or not he's a ratings draw. If I'm a fan of someone, I'll tune in to watch no matter what he's doing.

That is, he would be a draw for me and I still wouldn't have to care about the ratings one bit.

I don't really get the problem or disconnect. People on here have been trying to pretend these guys are big figures for WWE, including trying to correlate drawing power to them. Gertner is saying "hey guys, remember when you said x? lol."

You guys realize that the ratings are just pol who watched the whole thing live or on.DVD in the first 24 hours without fast forwarding or changing the channel.

Not entirely true.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Who the fuck has correlated drawing power to Punk and Bryan beyond anything other than the immediate spike CM Punk did create in a PPV buyrate? There's love for Punk and Bryan here out the ass, but I don't think anyone's ever come in and said "Punk and Bryan are proven mega-draws."

[XL]

The term "Franchise Players" has been used by a couple of people though. Erroneously, but still used.

[Kane Knight]

The term "Franchise Players" has been used by a couple of people though. Erroneously, but still used.

More than a couple.

Err...I mean, nobody has ever said that, ever!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've never seen that, in truth. I must not have been in those threads.

[Ultra Mantis]

Nobody mentioned the ratings for people watching on.DVD in the first 24 hours.

I'm slightly interested in the ratings for people watching 24 on DVD during Daniel Bryan matches.

[whiteyford]

The term "Franchise Players" has been used by a couple of people though. Erroneously, but still used.

Be a great tag team name.

[Blakeamus]

:Really? And who are these imaginary people
:roll:

[CSL]

he's right

[Kane Knight]

:
:roll:

Well?

Go on, show me some.

[Blakeamus]

I don't pay attention on who (or imaginary people), just from what I read from forums, facebook wrestling groups, etc. I was just stating I hate seeing how people are interested into something that really isn't of importance and takes out the fun of being a wrestling fan. And I know I shouldn't really bother with this discussion anymore since now this is plagued by your presence.

[#1-norm-fan]

To be fair any 'new' star is going to lose viewers at this point though. WWE hasn't built anyone up as a real deal in ages so it's no wonder people don't take them seriously.

Wishbone speaks the truth here.

The character development is shit. This issue tends to get lost when discussing who "sucks as a main eventer". The company sucks at building up main eventers.

[Mr. Nerfect]

So people who judge shows by ratings are imaginary, yet people who think that Daniel Bryan and CM Punk are mega-draws aren't?

[Rock Bottom]

Lot of this has to do with looks.

Daniel Bryan looks ridiculous and Punk rocks a neck beard.

Change those two things and this thread would be completely different. Don't think Bryan is in Punk's league, for that matter. But, whatever, that's who they have at the next PPV.

[Rock Bottom]

Shit, even the themes would change it all. Daniel Bryan's theme is fucking retarded and CM Punk downgraded his theme.

[Ultra Mantis]

I dont think Rock Bottom knows what a neck beard is.

[Ultra Mantis]

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1310576332886_0.jpg

[parkmania]

CM Punk downgraded his theme.

Tell me he didn't just say that.





You go to hell, sir. Do not pass Purgatory. Do not collect fire or life insurance. Just go straight to hell.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The low ratings can solely be blamed on the crappy WWE Title belt. Why they didn't change it when Punk ran off the bling belt is beyond me.

[Kane Knight]

I don't pay attention on who (or imaginary people), just from what I read from forums, facebook wrestling groups, etc. I was just stating I hate seeing how people are interested into something that really isn't of importance and takes out the fun of being a wrestling fan. And I know I shouldn't really bother with this discussion anymore since now this is plagued by your presence.

So you don't pay attention to these guys, you just read these claims on forums and facebook.

That's kinda paying attention. Are you Mitt Romney?

Yeah, pretty much. I would never argue that Daniel Bryan is a franchise player. Anybody who says he is is delusional. However, he fills a void left when Benoit died. He's an old school technician, who appeals to a niche. A good guy to have around, very talented, but not interesting to the casual fan. At the end of the day, I like who I like. Justin Bieber sells more records than Testament, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's better.

But people want him in a leading spot. Using the Testament analogy, if you want to make money (which is what the WWE does want to do), do you put your money behind Beiber or Testament?

Look, I understand that "more popular" doesn't mean "better." A lot of my favourite groups are local. I don't expect them to have the national appeal for throngs of fans, and that's fine. But if you're talking about who should be on top, it's not going to be those guys.

When you correlate the intelligence of the booking and Vince to the pushing of certain people like Punk or Bryan, has has been done in the past, you're talking business. Not even just "I want."

Additionally, if you want to just enjoy the show, why even come into threads like this? You don't care about ratings, great. Why not let those who do talk? Even if they do "enjoy people based on their drawing power," who are you to tell people they're enjoying the show wrong.

Do you tell sports fans not to crunch numbers because you're a baseball purist?

You guys realize that the ratings are just pol who watched the whole thing live or on.DVD in the first 24 hours without fast forwarding or changing the channel.

I already said something about this, but I'm just going to point out:

You mean they only count the primary statistic which is most important both to advertisers and WWE? Holy shit!

I mean, seriously, there's a reason these numbers are still relied on. The number of people who watch first run is the most important. And I can't remember if it was in this thread or not, but someone mentioned streaming and torrents. Nobody cares about that because you're not contributing to them in any direct financial sense.

That is to say, if most of Daniel Bryan's fans watch on the web from sites outside WWE's influence, then they don't matter in terms of whether or not he should be pushed. In fact, they might hurt him. The only exception is merch sales, but as they're already factored, that doesn't really change anything.

"Draw" is a term only really important in terms fo revenue stream. The reason people don't count illegal rebroadcasting is because nobody involved makes money off it. And, as redundant as it seems, if guy A makes them money and guy B does not, 90% of the time, they will run with guy A.

[Mr. Nerfect]

What you're saying makes perfect sense, KK, but who is a draw in the WWE besides The Rock and Brock Lesnar?

[TSI]

This sums it up for me. :y:
Ok, well, even if Punk isn't a "franchise player" (who really is these days though, tbf), he's still a credible main eventer, and it didn't take him several years of being forced down everybody's throats as a big deal to get there (I'm looking at you Orton). I can see why the overhyping by the IWC of certain guys is annoying, but to act like he doesn't have any appeal is ludicrous. Daniel Bryan, on the other hand, is a great talent, but definitely not franchise material. He's a guy that is credible in a top spot when they need him, but not someone who draws big money. He can have a good match with anybody and make them look good. You need a few guys like that hovering around.

[Blakeamus]

I didn't pay attention to WHO said it, but aware of what was said. How are you not understanding that?

[Kane Knight]

I didn't pay attention to WHO said it, but aware of what was said. How are you not understanding that?

The fact that you worded it clumsily might be part of the point.

Might want to take your own proficiency with the English language into account when asking how hard something is to understand, champ. :y:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Was Shawn Michaels a franchise player? Weren't ratings pretty low when it was him and Bret carrying the WWE?

[DAMN iNATOR]

All I care about is that they don't hastily put another World or WWE title on DB again so soon after losing his first one. He obviously had no idea how to handle the pressures of it and it showed. Give him a few more years, let him earn a couple IC/US titles first. Hell, maybe even a tag title or two.

[XL]

What makes you say he couldn't handle it?

[DAMN iNATOR]

I dunno, he just didn't sound very convincing or confident whenever he had to give a promo, and the face-to-heel switch mid-run was sorta WTF...

[CSL]

he's just not the greatest/most consistent promo guy as opposed to nerves or a confidence thing, guy earns his spot through the fact not many guys can touch him "bell to bell"

[DAMN iNATOR]

Fair enough. Just really sick of these über-quick pushings of superstars to the WHC or WWE title within months of their arrival in the company. Another thing about DB that needs to go "buh-bye" in a hurry is this stupid "YES!" shit.

[XL]

The stupid "YES!" shit that is pretty over with the crowd?

[DAMN iNATOR]

The ones that chant it must have an IQ of -47...it's annoying, plain and simple.

[Juan]

lol @ DAMN iNATOR questioning anyone's intelligence level.

[Innovator]

DAMN iNATOR is right, Daniel Bryan has to ditch EVERYTHING that got him over.

[XL]

The ones that chant it must have an IQ of -47...it's annoying, plain and simple.
Y'know, I hated/still hate the whole "WHAT!?" deal but I'd never have said Austin should drop it as it was/still is crazy over - regardless of who was chanting it.

[St. Jimmy]

Cena end segment killed the show to a 2.94 in the overnights. It's totally Bryan/Punks fault.

[Gertner]

PUNK/ BRYAN did a 2.91. They tuned people off as soon as the show started and they never came back.

TNA is catching up because of those two.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Not even in the overrun? You know, when people are watching the other show?

[Mr. Nerfect]

http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/raw-franchise-players/page-3

http://www.wwe.com/shows/smackdown/smackdown-franchise-players/page-3

LOL.

[owenbrown]

It's May and this week and next is finales on the networks but I guess that is Punk and Bryan's faults as well according to Gertner.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Punk and Bryan are clearly sinking the USA Network and NBC itself! I bet the affiliates will be on the phone to Vince soon, demanding a change! They want the steadily declining ratings of yesteryear, when it was John Cena and Randy Orton's fault!

[owenbrown]

I am sure everyone watching the series finale of House over watching the first hour of Raw next week will be blamed on Punk/Bryan too :shifty:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Especially if it's a Triple H segment that bombs.

[Kane Knight]

I am sure everyone watching the series finale of House over watching the first hour of Raw next week will be blamed on Punk/Bryan too :shifty:

So what you're saying is they should sign Hugh Laurie.

[PrettyCool]

Lot of this has to do with looks.

Daniel Bryan looks ridiculous and Punk rocks a neck beard.

Change those two things and this thread would be completely different. Don't think Bryan is in Punk's league, for that matter. But, whatever, that's who they have at the next PPV.

No way, Punk looks awesome.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Friendly bump.

[Bad News Gertner]

Lol 66% of that post is still correct

[#1-norm-fan]

Daniel Bryan is slightly closer to being a franchise player than Chris Benoit was.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Nobody tunes into the show after Raw though.

[Swiss Ultimate]

The stupid "YES!" shit that is pretty over with the crowd?

The ones that chant it must have an IQ of -47...it's annoying, plain and simple.

[Swiss Ultimate]

about the Cena booing stuff (gonna go all science right now, well for #1 anyway):

1. booing is a much deeper sound than a cheer coming from anybody. 2,000 people booing (especially when it's mostly made up of 18-30 year old males) in a 10,000 people strong crowd is always going come across really quite loud. This doesn't mean it's a majority, half or any hugely significant number of people except for in certain situations (see: against Rock, in Chicago against Punk, in a "smart" city, the Mania crowd made up from across the world etc)

2. most of those booing Cena these days don't even know why they're doing it (check out everytime he does something unexpected/"cool" and check out the pops (worked) before some of them realize they're supposed to be booing, you know, because it's cool and stuff)

3. if John Cena was around in the Hogan era that you mention, he'd have been a monster. Vice versa if Hogan was just coming through today (he'd get "The Cena Pop")

4. the amount of merch he shifts pretty much speaks for itself in terms of just how popular he is. The vast majority of the people as far as I can see that boo Cena are internet/smart/wannabe smart/follow the crowd fans. WWE's paying audience in terms of live gates, merch, PPV buys etc is mostly made from the casual/non smart fan. The amount of casual male fans I come across who are Cena fans always "pleasantly" surprises me.

5. I'll admit, I'd love to see him turn heel, I've said for years that with the amount of ammunition/natural build he has for a heel turn, it could be incredible. But it has nothing to really do with listening to the crowds. What good does it do turning a guy heel just because small parts of the crowd want to regularly boo him, only for the next top guy to start getting booed by the same people because now he's the popular blue eye going up against what would probably be a "very cool" heel in John Cena? When it comes down to it, the boos don't really mean anything.



and I don't think you'll find anything from Gertner in this thread that says you can't or shouldn't do that

[NormanSmiley]

Cena just did his 400th make a wish visit, kids idolize him and request him more than anyone. as long as the company has that going on theres no way on earth they are gonna turn him heel

[Swiss Ultimate]

Cena just did his 400th make a wish visit, kids idolize him and request him more than anyone. as long as the company has that going on theres no way on earth they are gonna turn him heel

He doesn't want to turn heel, Vince doesn't want him to turn heel, merchandise sales don't want him to turn heel.

I have no problem with that, he's doing a lot of good in his position.

[Bad News Gertner]

Cena is the perfect wrestler. Kids buy his stuff and root for him to win and smarks/adults root for him to lose.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I don't love how he's booked, but I do think most of the hate is undeserved. The one thing I wish they would let him do is sell after the match and even for a week or two. I thought he should have been kayfabe injured after his match with Lesnar, but WWE decided he needed to have Wolverine-like healing ability.

If he was given a beating that took, it would give him a bit more sympathy...not that it would solve the smark problem, but it'd make ME like him more.