Official Over The Limit 2012 Thread (21/05/12) - *SPOILER* Cena, uh, Ace Wins!

[Keith]

Kids just love Cena, wow. It's tough for me to really dislike him when I see the connection he has with kids.

Also, the adult seems to be more bummed out than the boys.

[Mr. Pierre]

-Opening with the battle royal was a fun idea and got the crowd going. Christian with a random face turn is a good idea, and I'm glad he won the belt. Good opener.

-Tag titles was great. Fast-paced match with an innovative finish. Kofi/Dolph have great chemistry, and they freshen up their matches each time out.

-Divas was better than usual. Layla has definitely improved, and Beth is Beth. Fun match, but I was hoping that Beth wouldn't lose too decisively.

-Clay/Miz was whatever. Clay was fun at first, but I'm done with it. It's time to put the guy in a decent program.

-WHC was awesome. Loved this match. Everything a multi-man match should be. Near falls, fluent spots, out of no where finishers. It was great. Not a fan of Sheamus, but who cares, this match was damn near perfect.

-Ryback squash was more enjoyable than Clay's match.

-Christian/Cody was good. Got the shaft on the card order, so the crowd wasn't too hot for it, but it was a solid match. Good to see Christian have some direction. I hope he can be booked as the babyface workhorse and help the IC title.

-Punk/Bryan was a classic. A great match, and it's obvious that these two have more stories to tell, which is a definitely a good thing. Maybe a Submission match at No Way Out?

-Johnny/Johnny was what I expected. Fun squash, but I wasn't too sure if Show or Lesnar would be interfering. Should be interesting tomorrow.

Overall, good show :y: World title matches were awesome and deserve a look for sure.

[Lock Jaw]

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/05/OTL12_Photo_186.jpg

........F-five time.....

[Vastardikai]

http://www.wwe.com/f/styles/photo_large/public/photo/image/2012/05/OTL12_Photo_186.jpg

Cena: You know this was a dumb idea, right?

Ace: Fuck you, I'm drunk!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't really get why the Big Show wouldn't just ride things out and see if the new General Manager wouldn't rehire hm after Johnny Ace loses is the only problem

I mean he's gigantic and has experience in the field. I think it would work out.

Exactly this. He could also have come out and KO'd Johnny and become the most over motherfucker on the face of the planet. It would have been far smarter to help out Cena.

The only way it makes sense is if Big Show and Johnny Ace planned this together. In that case, Show needs to be rewarded with a WWE Title match on RAW. If Show claims that he was "forced" into doing it -- well, that is a pretty shitty story.

Like you, though, I don't really care. Most of the show sounds really solid. Not good enough to make me buy it, but whatever.

* Kane beating Zack Ryder makes perfect sense. Kane is fucking massive and Zack Ryder is not. I've got no clue where Kane goes now, actually. Maybe the WWE can have him go after Brodus Clay? That would be pretty funny, actually. It'd be a real test for Clay to be in the ring with a monster like Kane, and might give him a story. Zack Ryder should move into a feud with Damien Sandow, with Sandow critiquing the quality of Zack Ryder's show, as someone suggested in the SmackDown! spoilers thread.

* Christian winning the Battle Royal is really cool. I love me some Christian, and I actually think the dude works far better as a babyface than a heel. Even if you can't concede that, he is at least able to play a fun face character, which is rare these days. Seeing Christian get a nice Intercontinental Title run would be awesome, and my personal wish is for Chris Jericho to challenge Christian and the two to have disagreements about who the better Intercontinental Champion is/was. Christian can even bring up stealing Chris Jericho's girlfriend, or bring Trish Stratus to the ring with him for their eventual match. Psychology, baby.

* Kofi Kingston & R-Truth beating Jack Swagger & Dolph Ziggler was the right choice. Personally, I hope to see Ziggler & Swagger remain together, though. Have them cost Kofi & Truth the WWE Tag Team Titles to Primo & Epico when they get their rematch on RAW. All this can be used to try and recreate the "SmackDown! Six" and make the WWE Tag Team Titles mean something.

* Layla is fucking sexy. This sounds like a good Divas match, although I have no clue where the division is actually going. I think the girl who gets squashed by Kharma should be Eve, and that Eve can book herself into a match where things are on her side. It might make people feel sympathy towards Layla, and hate Eve more, and make it super-great when Kharma demolishes her.

* The Fatal 4-Way sounds pretty great. Sheamus winning makes about as much sense as anything. Having Sheamus lose the title and chase it would have also made sense, though. Del Rio and Orton can have a match to decide who faces Sheamus next. I think that Sheamus vs. Orton could create some interest in SmackDown!'s main event scene.

* I don't like squash matches on PPV, I've decided. It's more time you can dedicate to the matches with stories. Brodus Clay vs. The Miz could have been given a story. In their match a few weeks ago, you simply have The Miz get himself disqualified against Brodus -- keeping Clay's streak alive -- but allowing The Miz to remain unsquashed. Hence, a pissed off Clay has something to do at Over the Limit. Him pinning Miz would have meant a lot more here, then, and it would have given Clay some development.

* Punk vs. Bryan sounds amazing, and it also sounds like this story is not yet done -- which is absolutely fine with me. Their rivalry needs to get upped just a little bit more, though. Ideally, I'd like to see Big Show given a WWE Title match on RAW for helping Laurinaitis. Show and Punk work their stuff, but then John Cena attacks Big Show in a rage, giving Show a DQ victory against the WWE Champion. Daniel Bryan then attacks Punk. Johnny Ace does a "Teddy Long" and makes it a tag team main event between the faces and the heels -- CM Punk & John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan & Big Show. There, Show can illegally KO Punk, which can allow Bryan to sneak a pin in on the WWE Champion.

* Ryback's squash would have probably been better on SmackDown! this coming week instead of on the PPV, although I am happy to see Camacho and Hunico make a PPV appearance. On RAW or SmackDown! this week, Ryback should face Hunico, with Camacho attacking Ryback as it looks like he's about to win. A mini-feud between Hunico y Camacho and Ryback could be pretty entertaining.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh, and I hope that Santino Marella laughs at Cody Rhodes for losing to Christian, so Cody challenges Santino and beats him for the US Title, and Cody brings back the WCW-style US Title belt.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Yes yes yes

[Savio]

All the time.
Wow really?
--------------------------------
Also I would have rather have Christian win the US title than the IC title

[Corporate CockSnogger]

I went to bed mid way through the fatal fourway. Was the WWE title match really that great or are people exaggerating it a bit? Doesn't matter actually, I doubt I can be bothered watching it now I know the result anyway.

[Impeccable]

watched the four way just before I left for work this morning.

When Del Rio broke up Orton's pin on Jericho, right at the end, Orton moved out of the way. Was I imagining it, or did Del Rio just jump on Jericho's face? I didn't have time to rewind it.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

I went to bed mid way through the fatal fourway. Was the WWE title match really that great or are people exaggerating it a bit? Doesn't matter actually, I doubt I can be bothered watching it now I know the result anyway.

Probably my second fave match of the year so far behing HHH/Taker with a large chasm to #3.

Also, the Ace/Cena match wasn't bad. Admittedly, I watched it at 12x speed on my DVR, but still.

[#1-norm-fan]

Laurinaitis' "5 time... 5 time..." thing was ridiculous and hilarious. I loved it.

[Razzamajazz]

what about the drunk lady that tried to grab ace's headset telling him to wake up?

[Gertner]

Ugh the sooner the WWE is done with this garbage Punk/Bryan feud the better. That was horrendous.

[Shisen Kopf]

According to the intercontinental commission of workrate in pro rasslin. The higher the workrate the more serious business a rassler is. Right now Daniel Bryan is at 7.89647 for workrate so that means he is serious business. Although he got bonus points (4.32251) for his awesomely radical beard. Wooooooo rasslin!!!

[Gertner]

The fat virgins probably punched their moms in the face when they talked during this serious business last night.

[Shisen Kopf]

I wonder if Clox has ever body slammed his wife?

[Gertner]

I imagine it'd be like in Wrestlemania 3 when Hogan tried to bodyslam Andre for the first time and he came crashing down on top of Hogan.

[Shisen Kopf]

Andre wasnt as heavy as her.

[Gertner]

It'd look like X Pac trying to bodyslam Yokozuna

[Fignuts]

Wonder if Shisen ever has an original thought, or if he gets all his ideas from all of the semen he ingests from gertner.

[Shisen Kopf]

Oh that hurts. Ouch. Epic burn.

[Malfeitor]

Gertner needs a gimmick change. He needs to start praising the 'vanilla midgets' and their 'fighting spirit'.

[VSG]

Highly unlikely but I would love to see a potential Survivor Series elimination match featuring Team Johnny (Brock Lesnar, Big Show, Albert and 2 other dudes to mimic Nathan Jones and Matt Morgan) w/Paul Heyman

[Triple Naitch]

Glad to see Christian back and feuding with Cody as a face. His "One More Match" gimmick would have been stale if he'd have kept using it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Kids just love Cena, wow. It's tough for me to really dislike him when I see the connection he has with kids.

Also, the adult seems to be more bummed out than the boys.

He's probably just selling it for the connection with his kids, to be fair.

[CSL]

I went to bed mid way through the fatal fourway. Was the WWE title match really that great or are people exaggerating it a bit? Doesn't matter actually, I doubt I can be bothered watching it now I know the result anyway.

it was good but there was "something missing" and since I'd guess they're heading for a rematch, that could be "quite special". So yeah, exaggerating a bit maybe. DBD/Sheamus was better. The four way on this show was arguably as good/better.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Agreed. I liked the technical aspects of the match, but the finish was just like....OK? There wasn't much of a build to a climax, which I guess gave it more of a realistic feeling, but it wasn't very exciting. Good match, though. There's gotta be more.

[Mr. Pierre]

The match was great, but looking back at it as "Part 1" of a set rather than a stand alone match, it will look even better.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'll buy that. Here's to hoping that they follow through with it.

[Mr. Pierre]

I'm hoping for a Submission match at No Way Out, given the finish with Punk tapping. I hope they don't stick these two in a cage just for the hell of it.

[Gertner]

I'm hoping the WWE will see the buyrate these two drew and send them both to NXT where they belong. That was a horribly boring match.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Cena v. Laurinaitis was the main event, you know. It was booked as such leading up, too.

[Gertner]

That one match can only do so much. People like Punk, Bryan and Orton need to pick up the slack too.

[Anybody Thrilla]

How do you not get bored with yourself?

[Gertner]

I'm the anti-Daniel Bryan.

[#1-norm-fan]

That one match can only do so much. People like Punk, Bryan and Orton need to pick up the slack too.

Orton does just fine with his slack.

[CSL]

I'm hoping for a Submission match at No Way Out, given the finish with Punk tapping.

my first thought as soon as the finish happened was submission match, wouldn't be surprised at all

[#1-norm-fan]

It technically would still fit the "No Way Out" name.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm thinking that Bryan gets Punk in The Yes Lock at No Way Out, and out comes AJ to throw in the towel for Punk, costing him the WWE Title. Bryan is the new champion heading into a Money in the Bank match between the two, with Punk weary of AJ -- perhaps with her declared Special Guest Referee for the match.

A cloudy finish there would take us right through to SummerSlam, where I could see some sort of blow-off between the two. I'm not sure what it would be, but it could just be a good, old fashioned wrestling match between the two men at that point. Perhaps some sort of "wager" is included in the match.

[#1-norm-fan]

Why would AJ have the power to throw in the towel for Punk?

I could see it happening where she "reconciles" with Bryan only to watch him get put in the vice for a couple minutes and then throw in the towel. It would make sense. She would be so worried about his health, she costs him the title but he's ungrateful and just belittles her more for it.

Also, it would make sense that she would have the power to throw in a towel since she's actually managing him.

[CSL]

I see Daniel Bryan tapping out to the Anaconda Vice and both men moving on :-\

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why would AJ have the power to throw in the towel for Punk?

I could see it happening where she "reconciles" with Bryan only to watch him get put in the vice for a couple minutes and then throw in the towel. It would make sense. She would be so worried about his health, she costs him the title but he's ungrateful and just belittles her more for it.

Also, it would make sense that she would have the power to throw in a towel since she's actually managing him.

AJ has moved on from Daniel Bryan and is now seemingly starting up a relationship with CM Punk. Apparently Punk "Kind of digs crazy chicks" and AJ "Kind of digs guys who kind of dig crazy chicks." If Punk and AJ become an "item" by No Way Out, AJ would have just as much power to throw in the towel as Helen Hart did for Bret.

Also, if AJ screws over Bryan, then it gives Bryan a legitimate gripe, and that makes him sympathetic. You don't want Bryan to be sympathetic -- you want him to get his due in the end.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I see Daniel Bryan tapping out to the Anaconda Vice and both men moving on :-\

Sadly, I could see that, too. I would love No Way Out to be the continuation of a great rivalry between the two, but I could very easily see it ending with Bryan cleanly tapping out.

[#1-norm-fan]

I see the same thing except without the "meh" face.

Let them put on a great match and then move Punk on to someone he seems like an underdog against. They could make big strides in getting Punk over by having him defend the title on PPV against Lord Tensai and having him hand him his first loss. Hell, I wouldn't even be against Punk losing the title to Tensai at MITB just so Tensai can look that much more unstoppable before Punk takes the title back at Summer Slam.

[#1-norm-fan]

AJ has moved on from Daniel Bryan and is now seemingly starting up a relationship with CM Punk. Apparently Punk "Kind of digs crazy chicks" and AJ "Kind of digs guys who kind of dig crazy chicks." If Punk and AJ become an "item" by No Way Out, AJ would have just as much power to throw in the towel as Helen Hart did for Bret.

Also, if AJ screws over Bryan, then it gives Bryan a legitimate gripe, and that makes him sympathetic. You don't want Bryan to be sympathetic -- you want him to get his due in the end.

If Punk actually does join forces with AJ, I think everyone and their mother is going to know she's gonna turn on him or at the very least "unintentionally" cost him. It would be against Punk's character to be so naive and clueless to what's going on. He's supposed to be that "one with the fans" guy.

And Bryan getting screwed out of the title by AJ would only be the payback that's been coming his way for so long finally happening. No one would actually feel sympathy for the guy. It would be a great "heel gets his long awaited comeuppance" moment.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm sure Punk and Tensai could work a really great match together, but I have no interest in seeing it, just because Tensai's character is boring. Yes, it might make people care about Tensai, but I think that they should make people care about Tensai first.

Also, as a rule, I absolutely hate it when the World Champion is booked like an underdog. I hate it. If he wasn't good enough to beat that guy, THEN HE SHOULDN'T BE THE WORLD FUCKING CHAMPION!!!

To make myself care about a storyline between Punk and Tensai, the only way I could see it being remotely interesting is if Tensai plays the role of Bane and Punk plays the role of Batman from Bane's debut comic where he broke Batman's back. Tensai would destroy Punk, and put him on the shelf as Punk contemplated retiring or going back to the indies, or whatever. Gertner would be pissing himself with excitement. Punk then returns and kicks Tensai in the head and it's on again. Punk manages to out-smart Tensai in their next match and wins the championship back. There's absolutely no reason that this cannot happen post-SummerSlam, though.

[#1-norm-fan]

Also, as a rule, I absolutely hate it when the World Champion is booked like an underdog. I hate it. If he wasn't good enough to beat that guy, THEN HE SHOULDN'T BE THE WORLD FUCKING CHAMPION!!!

You must have hated a lot of main events then because this has been a pretty common method of getting the fans behind the face champion for a really, really, really long time. It's effective.

Would Hogan and Andre have been nearly as effective if Andre wasn't booked as the unbeatable monster favorite?

[#1-norm-fan]

By "booked like an underdog", I do not however mean "have him lose in tag matches so that he looks weaker" which is a ridiculously fucking stupid formula.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If Punk actually does join forces with AJ, I think everyone and their mother is going to know she's gonna turn on him or at the very least "unintentionally" cost him. It would be against Punk's character to be so naive and clueless to what's going on. He's supposed to be that "one with the fans" guy.

And Bryan getting screwed out of the title by AJ would only be the payback that's been coming his way for so long finally happening. No one would actually feel sympathy for the guy. It would be a great "heel gets his long awaited comeuppance" moment.

He doesn't get his comeuppance. AJ throwing in the towel would show that she still cares about Bryan, and that would continue the angle. The whole reason another match would happen between Punk and Bryan is because Bryan made Punk tap-out after the clean result of their previous one. Why would Bryan let being screwed over go? Also, I think AJ eventually turning on Punk would be more of a shock than Big Show turning, and AJ turning on Punk makes sense, and would be a captivating story that could lead to either a) a full-blown heel turn for AJ, or b) a storyline arc where AJ portrays having some sort of "Stockholme syndrome," and is such an integral part of Bryan's success, despite him not caring for her at all. She wouldn't be a "bad girl" so much as a "good girl doing bad things."

Punk could be weary of AJ from the moment the towel is thrown in. AJ acts like it was out of concern for Punk, and he flat-out tells AJ that she came between him and the WWE Championship, and he doesn't trust that she's not on Team Bryan still. She says that Daniel treated her so poorly when all she wanted to do is help him, and that she is absolutely behind Punk beating Bryan. She tries to prove her worth to Punk in different ways over the following weeks, perhaps even being labelled by Jerry Lawler as CM Punk's "stalker." John Laurinaitis then appoints AJ the Special Referee in their rematch at Money in the Bank, which AJ is absolutely thrilled about, but both CM Punk and Bryan are visibly concerned over.

You have generated interest in the casual fan -- something that a Punk vs. Bryan feud needs to do outside the ring as well as inside it. Which side is AJ on? Is she being honest when she says that she wants CM Punk, and absolutely loathes Daniel Bryan? Or did she cost CM Punk the WWE Championship on purpose by throwing in the towel? Heading into the PPV, you can have Daniel Bryan trying to earn back AJ's love. "Maybe it's time we talked, AJ?" It is made obvious to the "WWE Universe" that Bryan is trying to rig the outcome of the WWE Title match; while Punk tells AJ that the WWE Championship means too much to rig, and that she should do what is fair and allow the match to play out so that we can all know who "The Best in the World" is.

There would be elements of Shakespeare in the storyline -- with AJ in the role of King Lear, and Punk playing Cordelia, refusing to sell-out his morals for a piece of the pie. Bryan (playing the other daughters of Lear), does play to AJ's insecurities and manages to remain in control of the kingdom.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You must have hated a lot of main events then because this has been a pretty common method of getting the fans behind the face champion for a really, really, really long time. It's effective.

Would Hogan and Andre have been nearly as effective if Andre wasn't booked as the unbeatable monster favorite?

The WWE tried this with John Cena recently. It was really exciting.

[#1-norm-fan]

I was thinking if AJ purposely costs him the match somehow, he would get his comeuppance. What I actually said does lead to the angle continuing which seems like WWE's style currently because they don't like actually ending storylines properly. I wish they would actually get to a payoff now so it doesn't end up like Ryder/Eve.

[#1-norm-fan]

The WWE tried this with John Cena recently. It was really exciting.

There's a segment of the crowd that would find this quote not at all sarcastic...

As for the rest of the crowd, do you really think the marks who ejaculate over Punk nightly would turn on him if he was booked like Cena and Hogan were? Really?

[#1-norm-fan]

Did you hate HBK when he was facing guys like Sid and Vader during his reign?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I didn't watch during HBK's reign, so I can't comment on that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Bryan will get his comeuppance at the end of the storyline with Punk beating him. It's just a matter of when they do it.

As for the Eve/Ryder stuff, with John Laurinaitis now in power, it would be befitting if he demoted Ryder to NXT. Get some guys on that show that people care about. Ryder is really over, but he could use a bit more polish on his mic skills. Plus, while being a far more solid wrestler than people give him credit for (remember his matches with Christian in ECW?), it wouldn't hurt to have him working with guys like Tyson Kidd and Michael McGillicutty for longer than five minutes.

[#1-norm-fan]

Well, point is, it's a common way of building drama. That "oh shit, the good guy is in trouble" thing is effective. If people don't like Cena, it's not gonna work as well though. That's not a knock on the formula, that's a knock on the face character not making the fans give a shit if he's the underdog or not.

Even if you don't ACTUALLY think he's gonna lose, from a dramatic standpoint, booking the good guy as the underdog overcoming is the best way of making the fans love them. Not even just in wrestling. See: Rocky

[Mr. Nerfect]

You do have a point there, but I'd rather Punk remain the driver's seat for now. Do Punk vs. Bane later in the year.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't want Punk to lose any non-title matches. I just don't buy Bryan as a viable challenger. Punk and Tensai wouldn't even need to touch each other and Punk could still be booked as being in trouble.

Ideally, I'd have him not lose the title either because I like how long his reign has been and want it to keep going with no gaps. Punk handing Tensai his first loss at SummerSlam with the title on the line would also be awesome as NO ONE in that crowd would be split. I have a feeling, the crowd would be going nuts for Punk. There wouldn't even be that mark split that's going on with Bryan. I miss the atmosphere of the face champion having the crowd be rabid for him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The thing is, no one really cares about Tensai. Why go rabid for Punk when there's no reason to really go rabid for him. Tensai needs to enter a program that makes people care about him.

Personally, I would go with him vs. Brodus Clay.