Ryback's squash match last night was fucking unreal

[Gertner]

I could honestly watch these matches all day. Can't remember the last time I got this pumped to watch a match.

HOW FUCKING AMAZING WAS THIS!!!!



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[Swiss Ultimate]

I liked it, but...I feel like he should be taking out WWE jobbers and not just local jobbers from wherever he is that night. Also wouldn't mind seeing him squash jobbers with some size to them.

[Ultra Mantis]

It was a great visual, though I'd bet those two guys combined don't weigh as much as Derrick Bateman.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Ryback's fantastic. But yeah move him onto destroying actual jobbers and not these McDonalds workers.

[Gertner]

No doubt. Still was yelling holy shit when he did his finisher on both jobbers at once. Pretty sweet

[blak23]

GOOD SPOT

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I find it odd how he went to fighting main roster jobbers (Bateman, Slater) and now is back to going to local jobbers.

But yeah, epic finisher.</font>

[BigBad138]

The guy in the black and grey tights wrestled in ring of honor against jay lethal a week or two ago. I can't remember what name he went by tho

[K.Smoke]

Finisher has my vote for Move of the year. It was shocking from the dramatic seemingly contemplation on the face of Rybach to the ease in which he did it. I mean I don't care how much those guys weighed 2 human beings on ur back above the age of 18 is impressive(Midgets excluded).
Problem, This wouldn't happen to Randy Orton so what else can he do?

[Fignuts]

Ok, that was pretty sweet.

[Volare]

Still fucking love Ryback.

[tjmidnight420]

Short squash match with local jobbers, but I did enjoy the human powerbomb baseball bat spot and the double finisher.

[Hanso Amore]

Ok, that was pretty sweet.

Same thought. Ill give it this, that was a fun squash.

And a nice spot.

Though if they want to stop the Goldberg chants lets not have his ramp "taunt" be so damn similar. Walk to the run non stop kick ass and done.

[Shisen Kopf]

Ryback is awesome. I'd even go so far to say he is super awesome. Wouldn't say he is mega awesome like Bushwhacker Luke but he's close.

[Gerard]

Though if they want to stop the Goldberg chants lets not have his ramp "taunt" be so damn similar. Walk to the run non stop kick ass and done.

Theyre chanting goldberg because of the way he's just running through his opponents in very quick matches, has nothing to do with his "ramp taunt". When Lesnar came into WWE back in 2002 he was getting goldberg chants for the same reason, quick matches where he just ran through his opponent.

[Joesgonnakillyou]

That stomping he does before hitting his finisher needs to go

[Volare]

I kinda like the Death March.

[Rollermacka]

Still fucking love Ryback.

Yup, he's passes Big Zeke as my favorite "monster" in the WWE right now. I wouldn't tell, is that a bruise on his face or are they trying to do the whole "Kane dead eye" with him?

[Hanso Amore]

Theyre chanting goldberg because of the way he's just running through his opponents in very quick matches, has nothing to do with his "ramp taunt". When Lesnar came into WWE back in 2002 he was getting goldberg chants for the same reason, quick matches where he just ran through his opponent.

Are you fucking dense. Im adding to the fact that even his entrance is now like Golfbergs - in addition to the fact that he is basically saying "Who's Next?"

He didnt doing that shit on the ramp a month ago - they have added it. After people already chant goldberg at him.

[Hanso Amore]

"Golfberg". I would pay money to see him.

[Gerard]

Are you fucking dense. Im adding to the fact that even his entrance is now like Golfbergs - in addition to the fact that he is basically saying "Who's Next?"

He didnt doing that shit on the ramp a month ago - they have added it. After people already chant goldberg at him.

As you said they were already chanting it before he had the "ramp taunt", odds are it wouldnt have made any difference with the addition of that, the chants would have persisted as the style of matches are the same, quick beatdowns with Ryback taking little in the way of offense from his opponent.

As long as that continues its likely the chants will. And considering that "taunt" was added to his entrance after the chants were already in full flow its possibly intentional by WWE.

[Triple Naitch]

Sick finisher. WTF happened to his eye?

[K.Smoke]

I think an eye update should of circulated. going to go look for it.

[DrCrawford]

i just cant get past his cheesy gimmick and the way he acts coming to the ring

[Razzamajazz]

combined weight of 347 pounds

[Keith]

He acts like Goldberg, his in-ring gear looks like Rob Van Dam's, and he marches around like Jack Swagger.

Yeah, other than that, he's got potential.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Gerard is wrong. Hanso is right. Ryback is FINISH HIM!

[Emperor Smeat]

Him nailing 2 guys at once with his finisher was the best part.

[Gertner]

He's friggen tremendous. Him and Sandow. Fantastic debuts. Sandow plays that role to perfection.

[#1-norm-fan]

This guy... is fucking MONEY.

I miss dominant face monsters. And he's perfect for the role. He should never lose a match in the history of ever.

[Lock Jaw]

<font color=goldenrod>I find it odd how he went to fighting main roster jobbers (Bateman, Slater) and now is back to going to local jobbers.</font>

They realized he looks a lot "smaller" and "less impressive" when facing larger people.

[Keith]

He's gotta decide if he's going to play the dominant "heel" monster, or the dominant "face" hero. Seems like at time he switches between the two.

[#1-norm-fan]

How does he switch between them?

[#1-norm-fan]

He's beating the hell out of obnoxious jobbers who bad mouth the city before the match... where does the heel part come in?

[Gertner]

Golberg was a dominant face hero. Ryback can easily do the same.


You could say the same about Batista. He was basically a monster hero.

[Volare]

He's beating the hell out of obnoxious jobbers who bad mouth the city before the match... where does the heel part come in?

They're the town assholes. People came to see them get their asses beat.

[#1-norm-fan]

Exactly

[Shisen Kopf]

Golberg was a dominant face hero. Ryback can easily do the same.


You could say the same about Batista. He was basically a monster hero.

Ryback is better than Goldberg and Batista combined. And we all know why.

[Keith]

He's beating the hell out of obnoxious jobbers who bad mouth the city before the match... where does the heel part come in?

They're the town assholes. People came to see them get their asses beat.

Every video I'd seen of Ryback (including the one here), I always went straight to the match, I never heard the promos by the skinny jobbers.

I went back and heard these two dudes talking, and now I see what's going on.

[Jura]

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[Rammsteinmad]

He pretty much does something new or unique in every match. So thus far, I have been enjoying his work.

Hope he gets a storyline soon though, so we can see what he can really do.

[St. Jimmy]

No Buys.

[Damndirty]

I'm sure him and Brodus and/or Tensai are going to be butting heads very soon: Undefeated streak vs. Undefeated streak vs. Undefeated streak

[Shadrick]

Honestly, that first jobber on the microphone wasn't all that bad.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't think it will be all three of them but I can see Ryback vs Tensai possibly at SummerSlam.

[#1-norm-fan]

Honestly, that first jobber on the microphone wasn't all that bad.

Yeah, neither one of them seemed as uncomfortable as you'd expect.

[Lock Jaw]

Honestly, that first jobber on the microphone wasn't all that bad.

FUTURE STAR IN THE MAKING.



Still not sold on Ryback, though.

[VSG]

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God I miss that theme so much!

[Keith]

Still not sold on Ryback, though.

Definitely not.

However, if Paul Heyman was to stick around, and he somehow ended up managing Ryback, then his chances of becoming huge go way up.

[KIRA]

Eh I can take it or leave it Ryback seems like like monster no 1,235 to me but time will tell weather he fizzles out or does something attention worthy

[Mr. Nerfect]

I did really enjoy his squash this week. I'm still not entirely sold on the guy yet, though. I was more sold on him when he was a member of Nexus, and looked like a fucking silent killer working with a team of men. On his own, I'm still waiting for that "hook" to grab me and reel me in.

Some random ideas for Ryback:

* Encourage people to write in about bullies in their hometown, and ask Ryback to feed on them.

* As someone said, one of those guys was not bad on the mic. Have him return to the WWE as a guy who has had his in-ring career ended by Ryback. He chastises the people for cheering Ryback, and then brings in more jobbers each week to try and fight Ryback. He can become the Lex Luthor to Ryback's Superman, if you will.

[Ultra Mantis]

I'd be quite interested to see Ryback take on Colin Delaney.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Ryback does seem to be going back to the carnival era of freaks. I wonder how long they will continue these jobber squashes matches and get into the real roster of jobbers heels.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

God I miss that theme so much!

Y U no like the pit of danger?

[Optimus Bone 69]

could be any cunt i just like the music but thats the problem with most of the people they want us to like

[el bobbo]

I don't think it will be all three of them but I can see Ryback vs Tensai possibly at SummerSlam.

If they do something that productive with the both of them and actually have a decent build, I would be very pleasantly surprised.

[el bobbo]

I don't think it will be all three of them but I can see Ryback vs Tensai possibly at SummerSlam.

Tensai needs to get on the mic as Albert and kill this god-awful gimmick. He can keep some of the Japanese schtick because he's earned it, but it is absolutely painful to watch.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't get everyone's issue with the gimmick.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's very cheesy. Very cheesy. I am in favour of guys having personalities and characters, but Tensai's just doesn't work, for whatever reason. Then again, I was never a fan of the Umaga character, either.

[#1-norm-fan]

When has cheesiness been a real issue in pro wrestling though?

And I actually don't find this one that cheesy. It's a guy who left the company for years, became a star in Japan and returned as someone ingrained in that culture. It's not crazy unrealistic pro wrestling-wise or anything. Not seeing the cheesiness.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The guy dresses and acts like he's in kabuki theatre.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If Tensai came out with Sakamoto, told us that he left the WWE some years ago but found success in Japan, and put over how hard it was to make it over there being a "gaijin," and someone that who could not initially speak the language to talk to anyone and had enemies all over the locker-room, I could buy Tensai's growth and acceptance as a phenomenon over there.

As it stands now, his whole shtick is that he loves Japan so much that he's a caricature of elements of the culture. Is that a reason to really be afraid of the guy, or even boo him?

[#1-norm-fan]

The guy dresses and acts like he's in kabuki theatre.

To be fair, Vince probably thinks everyone in Japan dresses like that.

[#1-norm-fan]

And sure he's a caricature. As wrestling gimmicks tend to be. I don't think it's that bad. The common fan isn't gonna dissect it like that.

[Tom Guycott]

* As someone said, one of those guys was not bad on the mic. Have him return to the WWE as a guy who has had his in-ring career ended by Ryback. He chastises the people for cheering Ryback, and then brings in more jobbers each week to try and fight Ryback. He can become the Lex Luthor to Ryback's Superman, if you will.

WWE could go back to the formula they used to use once upon a when; that being when a couple of "new" superstars debut fairly close to eachother a) one ends up being a face and the other is a heel, and b) feuding between the two is inevetable and usually done really fucking soon after they both debut.

With that, "The Genius" seems the perfect foil for "Goldberg II", and having him have a mean streak as opposed to simply being a cowardly heel makes it more believable he could actually go toe to toe with Skippy... when he wants to. But, he won't. Not right away. Eventually, after much teasing. On his own terms. For the benefit of all of the unwashed masses. You're welcome.

[Vastardikai]

With that, "The Genius" seems the perfect foil for "Goldberg II", and having him have a mean streak as opposed to simply being a cowardly heel makes it more believable he could actually go toe to toe with Skippy... when he wants to. But, he won't. Not right away. Eventually, after much teasing. On his own terms. For the benefit of all of the unwashed masses. You're welcome.

It's "The Genius 4.0," and "Goldberg III". Get it right. :p

"The Genius" was Lanny Poffo. There were two other iterations of the gimmick that both failed. "Goldberg II" was Lesnar.

[Tom Guycott]

Tensai needs to get on the mic as Albert and kill this god-awful gimmick. He can keep some of the Japanese schtick because he's earned it, but it is absolutely painful to watch.

I don't get everyone's issue with the gimmick.

The issue is as follows: white guy who's obviously a white guy who's suddenly AZN.

I think you would see the problem with this a little more if he went and wrestled in, say, the middle of Africa, then came back to WWE and wrestled in blackface.



:insert requisite racisim-loving joke from Shisen Kopf here:



:insert post about how the two aren't the same thing from another poster here:

[Tom Guycott]

It's "The Genius 4.0," and "Goldberg III". Get it right. :p

"The Genius" was Lanny Poffo. There were two other iterations of the gimmick that both failed. "Goldberg II" was Lesnar.

Really? I only even knew of Lanny. And with Sandow's similarly loud ring attire, vocabulary, and this week's boner cartwheel, I drew direct correlation. No other Genius existed in my mind. Who were the others?

And if you're splitting hairs about which "Goldberg" Skippy is, why don't we just say "WWE Generic Hoss #4054"?

[Vastardikai]

2.0 was Dean Douglas
3.0 was Matt Striker

[#1-norm-fan]

The issue is as follows: white guy who's obviously a white guy who's suddenly AZN.

I think you would see the problem with this a little more if he went and wrestled in, say, the middle of Africa, then came back to WWE and wrestled in blackface.



:insert requisite racisim-loving joke from Shisen Kopf here:



:insert post about how the two aren't the same thing from another poster here:

... he's not actually pretending to be asian though. Big difference between what he's doing and blackface.

[Tom Guycott]

Just because he isn't speaking in Engrish doesn't mean he isn't dancing in an uncomfortable area with the pointy facial hair intentionally styled as if he were Japanese, wearing Kenzo Suzuki's old robes, having kanji written all over his head and speaking exclusively Japanese in the ring/on the mic.

As Noid said, should give him more "reason" behind his cosplay besides "he conquered Japan, so now he dresses like that".

Its not as if people don't pretend to be from other countries or races in wrestling. Happens all the time. Everyone from Jay Strongbow to Baron von Raschke. Kofi's horrible Jafakin accent... hell, even Santino was a Russian guy for awhile.

But this gimmick seems to be walking a line with what it's getting away with. It doesn't seem as much as him "honoring their culture" as much as it feels a bit disrespectful, sorta that same line Vince walked with Akeem the African Dream. We have fond memories of that, but it was still on that border of discomfort and could have easliy gone very, very wrong for One Man Gang's career.

Of course, I knew that discord in my choice of wording was coming, which is why I stated that would happen. Since I always seem to have to explain crap instead of taking what I'm getting at...

Maybe "blackface" was too strong with the cultural and historical implications that carries with it. Think of it this way, then:

Albert still goes to Africa in the same scenario I listed before, where he "dominates" there as the same as his current gimmick. Only when he comes back, he has a Ugandan equivalent of Sakimoto and comes to the ring dressed like Kamala. I mean, grass skirt, spear, sheild, and all.

You can't seriously tell me how you can completely miss how people could percieve this as disrespectful.

[Shisen Kopf]

Tensai is a retarded gimmick. I would rather have him be A-train or Albert or anything else but this Jap Albert horseshit. Nothing about Albert is remotely Japanese. Big deal he spent some time there. Wait. I just got a great idea. Jericho has spent time in Brazil. He should return as Señor Brazil and talk about how he chooses Blanka in SF2

[#1-norm-fan]

Just because he isn't speaking in Engrish doesn't mean he isn't dancing in an uncomfortable area with the pointy facial hair intentionally styled as if he were Japanese, wearing Kenzo Suzuki's old robes, having kanji written all over his head and speaking exclusively Japanese in the ring/on the mic.

As Noid said, should give him more "reason" behind his cosplay besides "he conquered Japan, so now he dresses like that".

Its not as if people don't pretend to be from other countries or races in wrestling. Happens all the time. Everyone from Jay Strongbow to Baron von Raschke. Kofi's horrible Jafakin accent... hell, even Santino was a Russian guy for awhile.

But this gimmick seems to be walking a line with what it's getting away with. It doesn't seem as much as him "honoring their culture" as much as it feels a bit disrespectful, sorta that same line Vince walked with Akeem the African Dream. We have fond memories of that, but it was still on that border of discomfort and could have easliy gone very, very wrong for One Man Gang's career.

Of course, I knew that discord in my choice of wording was coming, which is why I stated that would happen. Since I always seem to have to explain crap instead of taking what I'm getting at...

Maybe "blackface" was too strong with the cultural and historical implications that carries with it. Think of it this way, then:

Albert still goes to Africa in the same scenario I listed before, where he "dominates" there as the same as his current gimmick. Only when he comes back, he has a Ugandan equivalent of Sakimoto and comes to the ring dressed like Kamala. I mean, grass skirt, spear, sheild, and all.

You can't seriously tell me how you can completely miss how people could percieve this as disrespectful.

lol. Yes, blackface was strong.

Hell, Kamala was looked at as disrespectful and he debuted. It's different when it's a comedy character though. I really don't think there is any mean-spirited intentional racism going on here. I'm not getting anything more than that they are going for the embracing the culture he spent years around thing. If they have a terrible grasp of Japanese culture, then we can discuss that. It's never exactly been a strong point for the company.

The fact is though that it is just a caricature like Noid said. And I don't see why that puts everyone up in arms as far as a wrestling gimmick goes. I don't get terribly bothered when my wrestling doesn't get their understanding of foreign culture accurate.

[#1-norm-fan]

I'll put it like this. Would it be weird to see a Japanese wrestler in the same gimmick as Tensai? No. It's a common thing. So now why is it weird for a guy who has made a name for himself in Japan and been around the Japanese wrestling scene to take a gimmick that would be natural in that scene within the realm of pro wrestling?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Tensai isn't working, though. They've already replaced him in major storylines with Big Show. If you want an answer as to "Why isn't this a good idea?" then perhaps you should accept "It's not working."

To be honest, I don't even have a problem with the attire Tensai wears, or even the tattoos. What bothers me is just how that's his whole deal. The only real heelish things he's done since debuting are acting grumpy and attacking people after the bell. During matches, Heath Slater is actually a better heel, in that he puts his feet on the ropes in submission spots and pinning attempts.

If Tensai explained why he hurts people, I would be more into the character. "In Japan, my past in the WWE meant nothing and only made people jealous. The guys in the back would gang up on me and beat the crap out of me before and after shows for months until I got so good that I could take them all. The world showed me no respect, so I will show none back."

Right now, even if you disregard the Japanese stuff, he's still just a big guy who hurts people, and that's bland as all fuck. Matt Bloom the performer is not to blame for it, really. At least when he went from being Albert to A-Train, Heyman at least explained it in a backstage segment where it was Albert getting serious about dominating the WWE, and he would now flatten anyone who would get in his way. It was a transformation and something that showed the A-Train character had found motivation to succeed on the SmackDown! brand under Heyman's guidance.

Tensai is just "I worked in Japan for a bit, so I'm going to dress up like this. Take me seriously."

[Mr. Nerfect]

WWE could go back to the formula they used to use once upon a when; that being when a couple of "new" superstars debut fairly close to eachother a) one ends up being a face and the other is a heel, and b) feuding between the two is inevetable and usually done really fucking soon after they both debut.

With that, "The Genius" seems the perfect foil for "Goldberg II", and having him have a mean streak as opposed to simply being a cowardly heel makes it more believable he could actually go toe to toe with Skippy... when he wants to. But, he won't. Not right away. Eventually, after much teasing. On his own terms. For the benefit of all of the unwashed masses. You're welcome.

I thought they may have been going this route the night they had Damien Sandow "debut" against Derrick Bateman. Sandow refused to get in the ring with an unworthy opponent, so Bateman demanded a challenge and Ryback did what Sandow was not willing to do. An interesting dynamic had started there.

I want to see Sandow feud with Zack Ryder, but I would also be interested in seeing Sandow duck Ryback for a few weeks, leading to a PPV match between the two (which Ryback would obviously win).

[Tom Guycott]

I thought they may have been going this route the night they had Damien Sandow "debut" against Derrick Bateman. Sandow refused to get in the ring with an unworthy opponent, so Bateman demanded a challenge and Ryback did what Sandow was not willing to do. An interesting dynamic had started there.

I want to see Sandow feud with Zack Ryder, but I would also be interested in seeing Sandow duck Ryback for a few weeks, leading to a PPV match between the two (which Ryback would obviously win).

Also, the fact that Sandow has so much verbal ammunition from BOTH of their gimmicks. The common savagery of the flash-in-the-pan, hulking brute is EXACTLY what Damien is trying to save the ignorant masses from!

In turn, this keeps Ryback's momentum going towards something besides yet another impressive squash. And it would give them both some TV time to work up from green.

But, he may or may not be feuding with Yoshi. 2 matches in a row might be going somewhere. Too early to tell. Looked like they were going that route with Tatsu v. Tensai, then that turned into a squash and went away.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sandow should try and "educate" Ezekiel Jackson. Big Zeke would make a nice bodyguard for Jackson, to keep the unwashed brutes away.

[jbizness]

He was horrible on NXT and is believable as the Hip-Hop Hippo nowadays. He has no personality or charisma to speak of. He regularly draws under 1.0 in ratings. He's like when they initially turned Khali face without a real angle and no one gave a shit.

[Damndirty]

When has cheesiness been a real issue in pro wrestling though?

And I actually don't find this one that cheesy. It's a guy who left the company for years, became a star in Japan and returned as someone ingrained in that culture. It's not crazy unrealistic pro wrestling-wise or anything. Not seeing the cheesiness.


I for one do like it! As long as he has the Shogunesque entrance attire, I think this will do well. I do think he should have more worshippers come with him, it would help get him more attention, though this is probably already his most popular character yet.

[K.Smoke]

not a fan of Tensai really. His gimmick has no staying power. If his first fued is interesting we may see them use him again hope he goes after the US or the IC title. But I place him below mid carder considering the WWE roster
Ryback can go a few different ways. He could go after minor gold and prolong his longevity. He could merge with Mason Ryan and really make the tag division look interesting or he can end up in a fued with Mason Rayan and draw a lot of attention to both of them.

[Damndirty]

I think the thing hurting Tensai is his old characters, who were kept below mid-carder level throughout his career in WWE.

[K.Smoke]

nope there really just isn"t any room for his gimmick. But it could be corrected depending on who his first fued is with. I would love to see a fued with him and this guy whats his face... The You're Welcome guy. That would be a good fued. 2 heels going at it both believing they're better than the rest of the world. Thats what the WWE need they need the new talent to go against the new talent bcus lets be honest they're not going to let Tensai win a mainevent against any maineventer without a cheat and every1 will see it coming a mile away. so let them fight against each other.

[Damndirty]

I think they should have him feud with Yoshi because it could show the Japanese outlook on Tensai, and eventually, can turn Yoshi into a man-bitch who follows him around by a leash. I'd actually like to see more Japanese wrestlers and masked Luchadores involved in the WWE, this would help him too.

[K.Smoke]

I think its a good idea if he's going to turn Yoshi into another worshipper. But there isn't too many Japaneese wrestlers mainly because Japaneese wrestling mainly appeal to their own audience. Luchadores also. I mean I as a wrestling fan enjoy to watch them but u don't see too many foreign wrestlers doing advertisement.

[Damndirty]

I've always been a fan of a slot for international wrestlers. WCW used to allow two international matches either every Nitro or Thunder, or even their one hour shows. I figured with WWE being on top, there's no real reason they couldn't do the same, especially considering how some matches shown consist of yawnable motherfuckers anyways who have no chance of drawing.

[Innovator]

Didn't realize until the second watching, but the shorter jobber was Ricky Reyes.

[K.Smoke]

Damndirty
I think with the reemergence of the cruiserweight division u may get ur wish. It will allow for more international wrestlers to break through. If they draft right they can give the Xdivision a go for its money.

[MoFo]

Should squash Santino for the US belt ASAP.

[XL]

I'd actually like to see more Japanese wrestlers and masked Luchadores involved in the WWE, this would help him too.
As it stands the only thing making Tatsu "stand out" is that he is Japanese. Adding more Japanese characters to the roster won't help Tatsu, it's make him less unique.

Same with the masked luchadores. Rey, and to a lesser extent, Sin Cara are different. Small masked guys from Mexico in a sea of hulking muscle men. To add further masked luchadores only dilutes the impact of the ones they currently have.

Really, with Mysterio, Cara, Hunico and Primo/Epico, they have more than enough lucadores to offer anyway.

[Gertner]

Excuse me, but let's refocus this thread on all things Ryback.

[Shisen Kopf]

Why are they talking about Jap rasslers? Ryback>Japan

[Gertner]

Exactly. Ryback would squash all those rice fuckers.

[Mr. Nerfect]

As it stands the only thing making Tatsu "stand out" is that he is Japanese. Adding more Japanese characters to the roster won't help Tatsu, it's make him less unique.

Same with the masked luchadores. Rey, and to a lesser extent, Sin Cara are different. Small masked guys from Mexico in a sea of hulking muscle men. To add further masked luchadores only dilutes the impact of the ones they currently have.

Really, with Mysterio, Cara, Hunico and Primo/Epico, they have more than enough lucadores to offer anyway.

I'm glad someone gets it. You could realistically create a few more masked characters in the WWE and see what works. Rey Mysterio, right now, is so established that it doesn't hurt that there's a new "Rey Mysterio" out there in Sin Cara. Also, while Rey's gimmick when he showed up was that he was a marvellous high-flyer, Sin Cara is playing up the mystery of being faceless a bit more. There's more of a cultural connection between Sin Cara, his mask and where he comes from than the one Rey Mysterio had when he came in.

A heel masked character could work. I don't know why you want someone to be masked and not move merchandise, but as an antithesis to Sin Cara down the track, that could work. A masked female could work, as well, and help the Divas Division out. Beyond that, I could maybe accept a more "gimmicky" masked wrestler on the under-card -- someone like Ricardo Rodriguez in a mask, or Trent Barreta using his masked identity -- with the intent being to raise interest in them before unmasking them.

So many people that talk about bringing in wrestlers from Japan (and I often see this suggested when people are talking about improving the state of women's wrestling in the WWE), but the thing is, if you bring in too many then they lose that special case of being a "Japanese wrestler." You're better off introducing one, establishing them, and then when they are over on their own merits, you can think about signing someone else to introduce in similar ways.

[Keith]

Getting back to Ryback squashing jobbers, I'm kinda happy to see this being done again. I remember back in the 90's we would see guys like Bret Hart, Undertaker, Razor Ramon squashing jobbers. Basically all the top stars, and all the guys who debuted and were slated to get pushed, would wrestle jobbers in order to show off their move set, present their characters to fans so they would begin to familiarize themselves with the person, and the wrestlers themselves would use these squash matches to get acclimated to wrestling in front of a very large audience.

I think that this "concept" can be used successfully, if done the right way, to help the young talent who hasn't been able to get past a certain level, talent that's hit a "plateau".

But of course, that would entail that WWE would have to build-up guys in a slower way, and I don't know if that's something that'd be considered in today's fast-paced WWE.

[K.Smoke]

I agree with Keith but on the flip side of that is the fact that the WWE roster is so crowded right now is it even right to place so many Jobbers in the mix. Why not put him in there against some of the NXT Rookies. I think it would do better for Rybacks image as well the rookies. It doesn't have to be such a thourough squashing. Because now as soon as he gets in there with someone with some repute and the match slows and the thrashing takes longer he will lose his power of domination. At the very least its time to step up his lvl of competition though I must admit finishing off 2 guys the way and manner in which he does it is just awesome. Just would rather see it be Heath Slater and maybe that black NXT guy I forget his name.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The thing is that Ryback has no character of which to speak.

[K.Smoke]

His character is that he loves to fight and that he's an ass kicking machine. They never even explained the black eye they just said he loves to fight. Just the fact that he came out there with a black eye proves that his character is such. Anyone else they would of explained or not let him wrestle. Its not like we know when he's going to thrash some again anyway, they could of waited until it healed

[Gertner]

Ryback's gimmick should be that he hates black people, and he'll beat up any and all black people

[Gertner]

All you Ryback fans be sure to vote for yours truly in the King of the Forum in Casual!!!!

[XL]

Getting back to Ryback squashing jobbers, I'm kinda happy to see this being done again. I remember back in the 90's we would see guys like Bret Hart, Undertaker, Razor Ramon squashing jobbers. Basically all the top stars, and all the guys who debuted and were slated to get pushed, would wrestle jobbers in order to show off their move set, present their characters to fans so they would begin to familiarize themselves with the person, and the wrestlers themselves would use these squash matches to get acclimated to wrestling in front of a very large audience.

I think that this "concept" can be used successfully, if done the right way, to help the young talent who hasn't been able to get past a certain level, talent that's hit a "plateau".

But of course, that would entail that WWE would have to build-up guys in a slower way, and I don't know if that's something that'd be considered in today's fast-paced WWE.
Wrestling is different now to how it was in the early 90s.

Don't get me wrong, RyBack's squash matches are a decent way to spend 3 minutes of a show. Enter, squash, leave. But I'll never watch the show to see that. Especally when they repeat it (i.e. seeing him hit his finisher on two guys was great the first time, can do without seeing it again on 2 different guys the following week) and establish every new guy the same way (RyBack, Tensai, Brodus, Cesaro, Sandow).

What gets me to tune in is story and character development. As Noid says, Ryback doesn't have a character. He's a big guy that beats up little guys 2 at a time. Impressive? Yeah. Interesting? Nah.

Sandow is in a great spot because he has a clearly defined character but I would like to see him in a fued with Ryder pretty much straight away.

There's no reason why they can't take a new character and put him straight into an interesting fued with an established character.

[#1-norm-fan]

It builds the "domination" aspect of his character. Did you complain about Goldberg not having a character when he first started? And those guys you listed are all being established differently. Unless your definition of being established is as simple as "winning matches".

[XL]

Didn't see Goldberg's rise so it's not an applicable question.

And yes, I guess my definition of being established is "winning matches". Do we need Sandow, Tensai, Brodus, Sin Cara, Cesaro, RyBack to be winning every match they are in?

Is the only way to establish someone as an interesting character to have them win all the time? They can't build character in a losing effort?

I wouldn't mind all these "winning streaks" if they weren't all happening at the same time and if I wasn't convinced that they will lead nowhere/be ended pointlessly.

[XL]

Again, I get why they're doing it (winning matches = a guy you should pay attention to) it just doesn't interest me personally.

[#1-norm-fan]

It depends on the character. I actually posted an idea involving Sandow losing to 'zeke last night in the Smackdown thread. I'm a huge Sandow fan but done right, it could have been great for his character.

If you're building guys as a serious contender/threat, then yes having them win constantly is important. Ryback should not lose a match for a long, long, long, LONG time. His first loss should be monumental.

I'm sick of this whole thing WWE has done for years where everyone loses like half the matches they're in. It's ridiculous. Punk loses a ton, Cena loses a ton... at a certain point, who cares about wins or losses? The title's gonna go on whoever regardless of how much they win or lose. It may be my biggest problem with wrestling today.

That's why I'm glad when they actually have someone like Ryback who they're putting in the slow build of making him look like a beast. It's a small step but dammit, some people need to look more dominant than others. The parity in wrestling needs to end.

[Keith]

The guy who plays Damien Sandow, did he use that name in the Indys? Or is it a new name?

[K.Smoke]

ya u can look him up under the "Idol" Aaron Stevens

[Pintint]

It depends on the character. I actually posted an idea involving Sandow losing to 'zeke last night in the Smackdown thread. I'm a huge Sandow fan but done right, it could have been great for his character.

If you're building guys as a serious contender/threat, then yes having them win constantly is important. Ryback should not lose a match for a long, long, long, LONG time. His first loss should be monumental.

I'm sick of this whole thing WWE has done for years where everyone loses like half the matches they're in. It's ridiculous. Punk loses a ton, Cena loses a ton... at a certain point, who cares about wins or losses? The title's gonna go on whoever regardless of how much they win or lose. It may be my biggest problem with wrestling today.

That's why I'm glad when they actually have someone like Ryback who they're putting in the slow build of making him look like a beast. It's a small step but dammit, some people need to look more dominant than others. The parity in wrestling needs to end.

John Cena! Tonight, you're going to go one on one with the UNDEFEATED RYBACK!

Cena : Oh no!

*Attitude adjustment*

1 2 3.

Cena : :D

[Damndirty]

XL-

first-

Yeah, but the thing is... Tatsu isn't even standing out, even with this as his only unique point. More than anything, they have him job to everybody. I don't think they need to go too crazy with Jap wrestlers either, but more than one wouldn't really be a bad thing. If anything, at least they can do what WCW did and have an international show against Japanese promotions, and doing this, it could help people get the "idea" of not only Tensai's status, but Johnny Ace's reputation over there as well.

And not all of the masked mexicans were small, they have some hulks there too that deserve some recognition, but the one that would really be hurt by this is Del Rio, so it may not be a good idea for now.

second-

I do agree with on having every new guy win every match, especially against superstars like Zeke who were monsters during their first appearances, now made to look like jobbers. It doesn't interest me either, in fact, it takes away any kind of storyline realism or WWE's creativity in general.

[Damndirty]

Damndirty
I think with the reemergence of the cruiserweight division u may get ur wish. It will allow for more international wrestlers to break through. If they draft right they can give the Xdivision a go for its money.

I miss the days of Taka Michinoku. He was always one of favorite lightweights.

[MoFo]

Ryback's gimmick should be that he hates black people, and he'll beat up any and all black people



:rofl:

RYBACKKK

[#1-norm-fan]

John Cena! Tonight, you're going to go one on one with the UNDEFEATED RYBACK!

Cena : Oh no!

*Attitude adjustment*

1 2 3.

Cena : :D

That's more likely to happen with Tensai.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It depends on the character. I actually posted an idea involving Sandow losing to 'zeke last night in the Smackdown thread. I'm a huge Sandow fan but done right, it could have been great for his character.

If you're building guys as a serious contender/threat, then yes having them win constantly is important. Ryback should not lose a match for a long, long, long, LONG time. His first loss should be monumental.

I'm sick of this whole thing WWE has done for years where everyone loses like half the matches they're in. It's ridiculous. Punk loses a ton, Cena loses a ton... at a certain point, who cares about wins or losses? The title's gonna go on whoever regardless of how much they win or lose. It may be my biggest problem with wrestling today.

That's why I'm glad when they actually have someone like Ryback who they're putting in the slow build of making him look like a beast. It's a small step but dammit, some people need to look more dominant than others. The parity in wrestling needs to end.

You're comparing Ryback to Goldberg, but there are a few things I would like to say about that:

1. Goldberg is arguably more charismatic than Ryback. I have enjoyed some of Ryan Reeves' mic work as an NXT rookie, and as a member of the Nexus he had presence; but Goldberg had something that didn't just come from working out a lot. It's something that cannot be taught, and I truly believe that someone like Goldberg is quite a rarity, and should be appreciated far more as a talent than he is.

2. Goldberg was pretty shit critically, to the point where the only thing that made him interesting was the streak. When he lost that, he lost everything as a character, and WCW would go further and further downhill. There was some interest when he finally signed with the WWE in 2003, but many felt that his run was not special. He became World Heavyweight Champion, but it felt forced and labored and didn't really make the WWE as much money as it should have.

By building Ryback up so much, are you setting him up for a fall comparable to Goldberg's? The biggest stars in wrestling do lose. Even The Undertaker will lose at events that aren't WrestleMania. If Ryback cannot make money losing matches, then what good is he past his first loss? Keep that in mind.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't buy that Goldberg is more charismatic that Ryback. Goldberg wasn't very comfortable period on a mic. His "it" factor is overrated. If you wanna say "Ryback hasn't worked the mic with his current character so I won't judge him on it yet" then that's fine. You can't then turn around and make a claim Goldberg being in any way better on the mic though. Based on what? It's one or the other.

There's a difference between hyping a streak and just having a guy win constantly. You don't need to hype a streak with Ryback ala Goldberg. There is a big gap between that and just letting him dominate.

There's also a HUGE difference between someone like Taker or even Hogan back in the day losing once in a blue moon and CM Punk losing about as much as the rest of the upper card while being pushed as "the guy".

[#1-norm-fan]

Someone doesn't need an established undefeated streak with a number next to it for a loss to be earth shattering. They just need to build up a habit of constantly winning. No one cares if CM Punk loses a non-title match on Raw no matter how big of a deal they try to make it.

Like I said, I think I would say parity is THE number one issue with wrestling today.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't buy that Goldberg is more charismatic that Ryback. Goldberg wasn't very comfortable period on a mic. His "it" factor is overrated. If you wanna say "Ryback hasn't worked the mic with his current character so I won't judge him on it yet" then that's fine. You can't then turn around and make a claim Goldberg being in any way better on the mic though. Based on what? It's one or the other.

There's a difference between hyping a streak and just having a guy win constantly. You don't need to hype a streak with Ryback ala Goldberg. There is a big gap between that and just letting him dominate.

There's also a HUGE difference between someone like Taker or even Hogan back in the day losing once in a blue moon and CM Punk losing about as much as the rest of the upper card while being pushed as "the guy".

You completely went off on a KK-like tangent without understanding what I was saying at all.

I never said that Goldberg was better on the mic than Ryback. I said that I believe he was more charismatic. CHARISMA DOES NOT EQUATE TO MIC SKILLS! How many times this needs to be stated to people within the IWC is baffling. So far, this can supported by the evidence that Goldberg made a ton of money, whereas Ryback has not. I know, I know -- it's far too early to judge -- I'm just ruffling feathers. But Goldberg did have something to him that Ryback isn't displaying just yet. Maybe Ryback will figure out the Rubik's cube and put it all together for himself. We'll see.

I wasn't comparing Hulk Hogan and The Undertaker to CM Punk...I was comparing them to Goldberg and Ryback. Hell, I was comparing CM Punk to Goldberg and Ryback. The thing is -- wins and losses don't matter as much as anybody thinks. That's why Chris Jericho is still a much bigger star than Tensai, despite Jericho losing almost all his matches since returning, and Tensai winning them. For a perfect example, see how Stone Cold Steve Austin got so tremendously over by losing to Bret Hart. Not every wrestler is going to follow that template, of course, but a guy's mystique lies in the fact that he dominates, in today's climate, he's going to find himself in the position of Ezekiel Jackson so fast.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Someone doesn't need an established undefeated streak with a number next to it for a loss to be earth shattering. They just need to build up a habit of constantly winning. No one cares if CM Punk loses a non-title match on Raw no matter how big of a deal they try to make it.

Like I said, I think I would say parity is THE number one issue with wrestling today.

I see what you're saying here, but the thing is, CM Punk does win almost all of the time. When the WWE Title is on the line, anyway. He's had a run that has lasted since November of last year, and he's constantly proving to the audience that he's "The Best in the World" (buy the t-shirt).

Big Show, on the other hand, just destroyed the undefeated Brodus Clay and the Tag Team Champions for fun. Will that clear dominance truly make him the star monster of the WWE, or will he go back to square one when he loses next?

[#1-norm-fan]

I see what you're saying here, but the thing is, CM Punk does win almost all of the time. When the WWE Title is on the line, anyway. He's had a run that has lasted since November of last year, and he's constantly proving to the audience that he's "The Best in the World" (buy the t-shirt).

Big Show, on the other hand, just destroyed the undefeated Brodus Clay and the Tag Team Champions for fun. Will that clear dominance truly make him the star monster of the WWE, or will he go back to square one when he loses next?

He does not win almost all of the time. When the title is on the line, yeah he has escaped. When it isn't though, you can pretty much bet he's gonna lose more often than not and Michael Cole's gonna exclaim "Daniel Bryan just pinned the champion!" like it didn't just happen the week before... or the month before with Jericho... or the month before that with Jericho... or before that with Ziggler... and so on, and so on. The "best in the world" seems like it should carry with it the stigma that you're almost unbeatable. Especially since you're the WORLD CHAMPION. Instead he loses randomly... just like everyone else... that's where the parity comes in. It's as big of a deal when the world champion loses as a match as it is when most of the roster does.

As for Show, he'll go back to square one when he loses next. Because that's not how you do it. I said I like when guys are dominant... I mean that over a long period of time. Getting them established for what they are is a big deal. Show has been a monster, then a jobber, then a monster, then a jobber, then a monster, then a jobber. It's not consistent. If they want Brodus to face someone big after they're done with Show, they'll have Brodus beat him. Then if they wanna push Kane for a title match that month, Kane beats Brodus. Now they wanna push Show again so Show beats Kane that month... It's a shit formula. Not at all what I'm talking about.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Big Show, when you really look at it, has been super-dominant, actually. No, not his entire career, but what did he do before his heel turn? He beat Cody Rhodes for the IC Title, and then lost it when Cody was sneaky and got a bit of a fluke victory against him. Before that, Show was involved in the World Heavyweight Title picture, where he put Daniel Bryan over time and time again -- I'll give you that. Before that, though, Big Show was the World Heavyweight Champion. And before that, Show was beating Henry by DQ and basically proving that he should be the World Heavyweight Champion. Before that, Show was kicking the ass of The Corre, etc.

Also, I think it was well and truly established in Punk's feuds with Jericho and Ziggler that he was the better wrestler.

[#1-norm-fan]

You're sticking with PPV matches. Show was losing regularly on free TV too. They used his "monster" status as a way of saying "What an impressive win!" for guys. After a while though, it stops being impressive because it happens regularly. Pretty sure Cody pinned him at one point during that feud too.

As for Punk, again, he was losing to them though. He was shown to be the better wrestler on PPV but if he had lost, it wouldn't have been as big of a deal as back in the day when someone like Hogan or Austin lost. Obviously them being more over has a lot to do with that but you know what else they had in common that Punk doesn't have? They barely EVER lost matches. I'd almost be surprised if a month went by where Punk DIDN'T lose a match.

[Mr. Nerfect]

My point is not that he was not losing to them -- it is that he was clearly the more dominant in the feud, proving that wins and losses don't matter.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If Punk lost every match from now until the end of eternity, and people still thought that he was The Best in the World and better than the guys beating him, then it would not matter if he lost every match from now until the end of eternity.

[#1-norm-fan]

There you go. Wins and losses don't matter. So why should anyone care about the outcomes of matches?

[#1-norm-fan]

Seems to me like making people care about who wins matches is a pretty big deal if you're trying to make wrestling interesting...

[Mr. Nerfect]

If you had a magic bank account with unlimited money stored within it, you could spend as much money as you want. It's the same thing with losing in professional wrestling. Of course, no one has a magic bank account -- but a guy like Punk can spend a lot of money if he manages to make more of it at the end of the day.

Keep in mind that it was just a mere few years ago that the win-loss record of Cena really bothered people because it was too much in his favour. Top stars need vulnerability.

[Mr. Nerfect]

There you go. Wins and losses don't matter. So why should anyone care about the outcomes of matches?

You're taking things completely out of context now, KK.

Wins and losses matter in a sense that people are invested in the outcome. There was no excuse for Sting to not win the WCW World Title at Starrcade '97, for example. Anything else would have been shitty, shitty booking.

But people care about why the guys are fighting. They care about the story heading into the match, and what the outcome will [I]mean[I]. That's why CM Punk's story with John Cena last year was so meaningful. Punk had literally won maybe one PPV match in the last calendar year, or something like that. What Punk managed to do was get people to invest in the story and what they thought the outcome was going to be. If it was just Cena vs. Punk for the WWE Title, no one would have given a shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Seems to me like making people care about who wins matches is a pretty big deal if you're trying to make wrestling interesting...

You care about who wins matches; but you also care about who loses matches. Ya dig?

[#1-norm-fan]

Because people didn't like Cena. So Super-Cena just pissed them off more. Do you really think Super-Punk would turn the crowd anti-Punk?

Vulnerability can be made without your top guys losing to half the roster. Hogan had vulnerability and he never lost. He is probably the most over star in wrestling history. Austin had vulnerability. He never lost either. He is one of the most over stars in wrestling history. Rock had vulnerability and he lost a shitload. He is one of the most over stars ever... The difference though... How many times did the fans get sick of him?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can think of loads of times Austin lost. And loads of times Rock won.

Punk has lost to like D-Bry in a Handicap Match, Tensai in the same Handicap Match, Jericho in a tag team match and then...I can't remember. I think at the very start of the year Ziggler did get one or two falls against Punk in tag team matches.

Is that seriously your case?

[#1-norm-fan]

You're taking things completely out of context now, KK.

Wins and losses matter in a sense that people are invested in the outcome. There was no excuse for Sting to not win the WCW World Title at Starrcade '97, for example. Anything else would have been shitty, shitty booking.

But people care about why the guys are fighting. They care about the story heading into the match, and what the outcome will [I]mean[I]. That's why CM Punk's story with John Cena last year was so meaningful. Punk had literally won maybe one PPV match in the last calendar year, or something like that. What Punk managed to do was get people to invest in the story and what they thought the outcome was going to be. If it was just Cena vs. Punk for the WWE Title, no one would have given a shit.

You're completely ignoring the other 9-10 non PPV shows full of matches that happen in a given month. I don't see how Punk vs Cena is relevant to the discussion. That feud was built on awesome promos and an intriguing storyline. Not "CM PUNK JUST BEAT THE CHAMPION IN A NON-TITLE MATCH! THAT NEVER HAPPENS EVER! HUGE!!!"

When was the last time you were invested in the outcome of a TV match?

[Pintint]

I think WWE is gonna build towards Ryback Vs Sandow, where Sandow finally gets beat.

[#1-norm-fan]

I can think of loads of times Austin lost. And loads of times Rock won.

Punk has lost to like D-Bry in a Handicap Match, Tensai in the same Handicap Match, Jericho in a tag team match and then...I can't remember. I think at the very start of the year Ziggler did get one or two falls against Punk in tag team matches.

Is that seriously your case?

Austin barely lost during his entire initial face run and the McMahon fued. Hell, he lost the title to Kane via bleeding. In fact McMahon pinned him in a gauntlet match with the corperation on a Raw in England at some point. I believe it was heading into the Royal Rumble. The reason I remember that random Raw match so well is because Austin lost... and it was a huge deal to me... because it was so fucking rare.

Yes, you can think of loads of times Rock won... who can't? I said he lost a shitload. I really thought that was common knowledge.

[#1-norm-fan]

It's a lame formula. Having a guy lose to make it seem like the other guy can beat him at the upcoming PPV only makes it seem like anyone can beat him on TV... so after a while, who cares? Punk would be better served beating guys like Miz, Ziggler, Cody, etc in good, long matches on Raw to hype him up. He puts on a great match, wins, justifies his best in the world status. They take him to a great match, lose, justify their "almost there" status. Or he faces someone like Jinder Mahal, makes short work of him, justifies his best in the world status while justifying Jinder's "not even close" status.

That's the anti-parity stuff they should be working on. Each guy should have a level. They can over-achieve or under-achieve on any given night but everyone has a level. This "he's unstoppable... unless it's non title or until we're done pushing him for this upcoming match. Then he's just a loser inexplicably" thing is shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You're completely ignoring the other 9-10 non PPV shows full of matches that happen in a given month. I don't see how Punk vs Cena is relevant to the discussion. That feud was built on awesome promos and an intriguing storyline. Not "CM PUNK JUST BEAT THE CHAMPION IN A NON-TITLE MATCH! THAT NEVER HAPPENS EVER! HUGE!!!"

When was the last time you were invested in the outcome of a TV match?

You just don't get it. You also proved my point. Thank you.

[Mr. Nerfect]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SUuWZfM1NwI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

LOL, Young is hitting Otunga's leg. He's clearly horrible.

:roll:

[#1-norm-fan]

You just don't get it. You also proved my point. Thank you.

Yes. I proved the point that you are unable to explain how the formula works in any way, shape or form so you evade like a motherfucker.

Seriously... I'm arguing the fact that the whole main eventer losing regularly as a way to build hype is pointless and only makes matches less relevant... and you can't see how bringing up a feud that was based in no way on matches has nothing to do with what I'm arguing.

I accept that you ACTUALLY believe the stupid shit you say about Riley and Slater... but you have to be trying to be this dumb now.

[#1-norm-fan]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SUuWZfM1NwI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

LOL, Young is hitting Otunga's leg. He's clearly horrible.

:roll:

lol. Is "throw in a completely meaningless comment to hide that I have no legit argument" the way you're going now? You seriously just should stop trying.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yes. I proved the point that you are unable to explain how the formula works in any way, shape or form so you evade like a motherfucker.

Seriously... I'm arguing the fact that the whole main eventer losing regularly as a way to build hype is pointless and only makes matches less relevant... and you can't see how bringing up a feud that was based in no way on matches has nothing to do with what I'm arguing.

I accept that you ACTUALLY believe the stupid shit you say about Riley and Slater... but you have to be trying to be this dumb now.

Are you seriously arguing that the guy who has been WWE Champion since November, has made everyone from Alberto Del Rio to Chris Jericho tap-out, and whose slogan is that he is "The Best in the World" is being made to look weaker than the opponents he dominates in his feuds? I am against champions losing non-title matches all the time, too, but Punk has seriously only lost via DQ (as part of a storyline), in tag team matches (in feuds he otherwise dominated) or in Handicap Matches, in which case the overwhelmed party should usually always win (unless we're talking Ryback squashes).

Punk's feud with Cena is exactly my point, and you're backing it up constantly -- "feud that was based in no way on matches." Thank you again. For someone arguing that wins and losses are so critical, you haven't explained how it would even be possible for a feud to be based on anything other than matches.

[Mr. Nerfect]

lol. Is "throw in a completely meaningless comment to hide that I have no legit argument" the way you're going now? You seriously just should stop trying.

Isn't that what you did with Alex Riley?

[#1-norm-fan]

Are you seriously arguing that the guy who has been WWE Champion since November, has made everyone from Alberto Del Rio to Chris Jericho tap-out, and whose slogan is that he is "The Best in the World" is being made to look weaker than the opponents he dominates in his feuds? I am against champions losing non-title matches all the time, too.

... as am I... SO WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ARGUING!?

At this point, I'm seriously picturing you just seeing my name and trying really hard to form an argument somehow while murmuring to yourself "This is for A-Ry, fucker!"

[#1-norm-fan]

Isn't that what you did with Alex Riley?

No, because I actually give valid reasons and video evidence of how shitty Alex Riley is. Not "LOL I'M GONNA EXAGGERATE SOMETHING FROM SOMEONE ELSE'S CAREER TO MAKE HIS REASONING SOUND EQUALLY AS RIDICULOUS!!!"

[K.Smoke]

The fued between Noid and #1-wwf-fan was better then most the fueds in wwe going on right now.

In the end I have to give it to #1-wwf-fan by DQ for the low blow from Noid when he used the A-Rye topic. (which i'm unaware of)

In the beginning Noid had some strong points but #1-wwf-fan has a good point, at least to me when he said that the build up of characters that already exist so that they can go for titles and them losing a bunch of tv matches is stupid not to mention now just completely boring. 1 of the problems is that we have too many PPV. and each one has a new build up.

Ryback
I have to go with Noid that him dominating means nothing in about a month when he loses. He'll need Charisma (mic skills also) to get him over. I think he'll need to dominate for quite awhile. Even after losing he needs to continue to dominate.

Lets not forget
We now have Ryback to add to Damien Sandow, Brodus Clay, Jackson and Mason Ryan.
We already have Kane, Big show, Cena (have to count him since he has a small power based move-set) and of course mark Henry. The "Heavyweight" division is growing in the WWE. It hasn't been really put togather yet but along with some of the other Heavyweights that already are and that can come back the WWE can go in a totally different direction and they can do it real soon.

[Ultra Mantis]

That monstrous heavyweight brute Damien Sandow.

[Keith]

ya u can look him up under the "Idol" Aaron Stevens

I ask because the "Sandow" statue is what they award to the bodybuilder who wins the annual "Mr Olympia" contest. So I wonder if Triple H (a bodybuilding fan) had anything to do with the name.

[K.Smoke]

I ask because the "Sandow" statue is what they award to the bodybuilder who wins the annual "Mr Olympia" contest. So I wonder if Triple H (a bodybuilding fan) had anything to do with the name.

interesting observation

[St. Jimmy]

http://i49.tinypic.com/2py22w7.jpg

[Vastardikai]

HEY YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!! FEED THE MACHINE!

[Damndirty]

MAMA BEEN BAAAADDD!

[Fignuts]

Can't wait for Cena to squash the fuck out of Ryback.

[K.Smoke]

I can

And b4 any1 thinks I am, I would like to state that i do not hate Cena. He was at 1 time my favorite but I just think he needs a hiatus. When I went to raw I was part of the Let's go Cena Chants that have died in recent months. Not the Cena Sux chants

[Damndirty]

Can't wait for Cena to squash the fuck out of Ryback.

If it happened, I would only be more of a TNA fan!