Is the WWE Diva division on life support?

[Dukelorange]

If you pay attention to my posts, you know I love looking at women. Especially the Divas. I even base the quality of WWE games by how the Divas look in the game, but that's not my point.

We all know that in the post attitude era that the divas have been in less angles, had matches with fewer minutes, and been supplimental to further bigger angles. Eve has been blessed to be a part of the GM angle.

I know some of you think that they can't wrestle or hold a crowd, but if you watch some of the NXT or Superstar matches you may see otherwise. Also, check youtube for some of them before the got in the WWE they had the time to tell stories and actually wrestle.

I'm intrested in your thoughts. Do you think the 3 hour RAW can help? As always, I looking for serious replys.

I apologize for any typos... I'm typing via cell phone...

[DLVH84]

I believe it is getting to that point.

[Wake Up Call]

Wasn't it always on life support? Honestly, I don't recall the division ever being good. In fact, it has always been shit.

[St. Jimmy]

Stillborn.

[Tazz Dan]

With the Bella's gone and Kelly Kelly apparently on the way out, you would probably think so. No doubt they'll hire some hot bird to replace them.

[St. Jimmy]

DON'T WORRY YOU GUIZE, KHARMA IS GOING TO COME BACK AND BE THE RYBACK OF THE DIVAS. THEN SHE'LL DATE RYBACK.

Wait, actually; book that.

[Tazz Dan]

I don't think Kharma walking around a ring screaming 'FEED ME MORE' is a good message.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

This is why I fear the 3 hour Raw yet am glad it's on at 2AM so I can fast forward it via the wonders of DVR.

Layla is womens champion. AJ is in a hot angle. Eve wears low cut tops. I don't need any more diva action to be perfectly honest.

[XL]

Kinda torn between "not caring at all" and "could be made to care".

On one hand, they could give the girls more time once Raw goes to 3 hours, with longer matches/more angles. On the other, TNA give their females more time and I still don't care.

If they intend to bolster the division I'd like to see them do it with the girls that can actually go in the ring. Beth, Natalya, Kharma and those that are passable/can improve (AJ, Kaitlyn, Eve). They also need to stop rotating one girl into the championship chase for a couple months only to be sent back to obscurity once the programme is finished.

[Cool King]

This is why I fear the 3 hour Raw yet am glad it's on at 2AM so I can fast forward it via the wonders of DVR.

Layla is womens champion. AJ is in a hot angle. Eve wears low cut tops. I don't need no more diva action to be perfectly honest.

Won't it be 1am for us? Or are we going to have to have a 5am bedtime from then on? If that's the case, then bugger that.

[Cool King]

Anyway, I wouldn't say the Divas division has always sucked. Sure, during the late 90's/very early 2000's, it was all about "eye candy" and all that, but I will say that personally, I think the Divas division was fantastic during 2002-2006.

I feel the Divas division has really suffered since then. Since 2007, you've had women who can actually wrestle such as Beth Phoenix, Natalya, Jillian Hall, Katie Lea Burchill and a returning Gail Kim, who have came in and not really been used, though Phoenix had a fantastic run up until she was drafted to SmackDown in 2009. Since then, it seemed like the WWE stopped caring about her until October last year.

Instead of using the aforementioned Dvias, the WWE chose to use less experienced Divas (at the time of their push) such as Kelly Kelly, Maria and Candice Michelle. Maybe it was an experiment as a way to build their own Divas from the ground up and if it was, then fair enough. If it was, I will say it did work with some Divas such as Maryse, Michelle McCool, Layla and even Eve. For some reason though, they chose to stay with Kelly Kelly being "The Diva", even though, personally, she's absolutely terrible.

I think that maybe Kelly Kelly being in that position has sort of made the Divas division suffer a tiny bit. Since Kelly Kelly was appointed the position of being "The Diva", more focus seems to have went on the Divas being a pretty face who can do a cartwheel or a backflip in a ring and having that be called a wrestling match, and appearing in magazines, than them having actual matches that are a good length and being involved in telling a story.

I think with the rumour of Kelly Kelly on her way out (Which is news to me, Tazz Dan), and with the Bella's gone and with the likes of Kaitlyn, Kharma, AJ and Tamina appearing, along with some Divas actually improving in the ring when given the chance, such as Alicia Fox and Rosa Mendes, I think the Divas division will improve by next year.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Won't it be 1am for us? Or are we going to have to have a 5am bedtime from then on? If that's the case, then bugger that.

Not actually sure. I'll be in bed either way due to work expecting me to show up afterwards, the selfish bastards.

[jbizness]

This division needs a Kharma/Phoenix feud. Nattie could probably be resurrected if they dont make her shit her panties again. Leave the bra & panties matches for the eye candy.

[Nicky Fives]

This is why I fear the 3 hour Raw yet am glad it's on at 2AM so I can fast forward it via the wonders of DVR.

Layla is womens champion. AJ is in a hot angle. Eve wears low cut tops. I don't need any more diva action to be perfectly honest.

:y:

[Dukelorange]

First, thank you tpww family for your insightful comments...

Now, I think what could have worked was to have two women's titles...

Hear me out, the IMPROVING divas could be on Smackdown and be eye candy shoot for the DIVAs title...

The WRESTLING divas can be on RAW and wrestle the matches and possibly some gimmick matches such as Tables matches, ladder matches etc.

Or vice versa, either way all the divas can be used.

Anyway, I loved the divas divison since Trish Stratus was champion.

I hate what the WWE doing to them.

[Cool King]

Isn't that kind of what it was like around 2004?

We had Trish, Lita, Jazz, Victora and Molly Holly on Raw and Torrie, Sable, Dawn Marie, Miss Jackie and Joy Giovanni on SmackDown.

[tjmidnight420]

Every time I've passed this thread until just now I thought it said Is the WWE Diva division on wife support?

[Dukelorange]

Every time I've passed this thread until just now I thought it said Is the WWE Diva division on wife support?

LOL... But since you're here post your thoughts...

[Dukelorange]

My thing is a few of the ladies that some of us say "can't wrestle" can acutally go in the ring... Check youtube on folk like Alica Fox and Rosa Mendes...

[dingdongyo]

what i hate about it is that character development for female wrestlers (in wwe anyway) is severely pigeon-holed, and it makes it fucking boring. everything is centered around the fact that they are chicks. there are hot chicks, bitch chicks and psycho chicks. that's it. no "diva" ever has personality or inspiration beyond that. so why the fuck would we care?

gail kim titantron 2003/2004 (http://youtu.be/yM0t4fK2Z14)

^ i loved this idea. a matrix gimmick which matched what she was physically capable of with all her aerial twisting armbar shit. and i could think of a million interesting storylines that could be enhanced by and even centered around the visions she would have, being someone that saw through the matrix that the rest of us assclowns couldn't.

point being, it was an interesting character, unique to the ring at the time. and the fact that she is female would be secondary.

bad wrestlers can still be fun to watch if they are entertaining in some other way. all these "divas" get to bring to the show are their tits and asses. sure, it fun, but only in spurts (ba-dum, chh). there's no reason to develop any connection at all. how boring would the men's division be if it was just a bunch of male strippers?

while trish was a huge star, i think her influence was a catalyst in ostracizing the female division as a separate, lesser entity with only sex appeal to offer, and thus partially to blame for the shitty condition it's in today.[/rant]

[Dukelorange]

But Trish could speak, wrestle, and take insane bumps... Which I'm sure some of the current girls could do, but WWE isn't letting them do their thing. I was watching the Divas Table match and I realized that the girls are capable of entertaining the crowd by way of angles and matches.

They don't have to be on the same level as guys, they can take things in a direction that guys CANNOT go. The Trish/Mickie James angle would not have been as good if it was two guys. Alicia Fox as a heel champ was real good because she beat people on mistakes (same as Maryse) Before Eve went corperate, the using people angle was gaining some traction.

I'll add another element... TNA has too MANY girls to the point where they can get by with another championship title, or have multiple women's matches...

[Damndirty]

Wasn't it always on life support? Honestly, I don't recall the division ever being good. In fact, it has always been shit.

In Sable's time and a little bit afterwards, it was damn good!

[Damndirty]

One thing I've noticed is the lack of valets. During the attitude era, the women weren't cowering down to the men when they were threatened, especially Chyna, cuz she really could kick your ass back. Kharma, Beth, and Natty need to start ganging up on guys and tearing them a new asshole to bring on a sort of Diva Revolution, it'd give them attention for a time, but I'm sure Vince would have the division crushed soon after its over.

[Dukelorange]

People don't remember the good. Just the bad spots... Heck a good woman can MAKE a wrestler too... Test and Albert would not have made it that long if it wasn't for Trish...

[Damndirty]

TNA may not have made without Trish forming TNA!

[Tom Guycott]

Divas division is worse off than the Tag division. The girls anymore are like they're playing little league softball and "everyone gets a trophy". Everyone has their turn to be Divas champ for a couple months, then they drop the belt and fall off the map.

The last breath it had as a division was with Lay-Cool. I'm not saying that as the Layla mark I am, I mean they were the last truly interesting thing going on with the women (intentionally not counting Kong due to her angle not working out due to all things baby related). They enacted the Freebird rule on a singles title, attracted attention by doing stuff BESIDES being pretty, were ok in the ring, and even took shots at The Beautiful People for the smarks (I enjoyed the shots both groups took at each other, actually).

Since then, any girls match is a clusterfuck disguised as a piss break. It was at its lowest to me about that time when Gail Kim left WWE this last time (6 on 6 diva tag matches lasting about 90 seconds and the people that start work the entire match... why make it an unneccessary tag match with every set of ovaries you could find?)

You can make the argument that "nobody cares" all you want, but if they actually put thought into it, they could make people care instead of just parading around the next blonde with tits that's "Playboy hot", but can't actually BE in Playboy anymore because ZOMG!!1!PG!! and also can't wrestle or promo worth a damn, so she doesn't catch on and her star burns out quickly.

TNA found a way to do it, and even proved they could fucking draw. But then, it took TOO MUCH time away from the guys and they put a stop to that shit. WWE doesn't have to go that far with the Divas where they have a whole RAW of nothing but womens bouts, but that's one rare case where they could actually learn something from TNA.

Long & short: much like the Tag-Team division, just give the girls some ANGLES... preferably at least a couple that involve pure status jealousy or just straight up hate and not have all of them motivated by "some guy" or "...am I pretty?" Also, don't limit granting angles to just the belt chasers.

[St. Jimmy]

Put the belt on Hornswoggle, Retire it, and Forget the Divas Division ever existed.

[St. Jimmy]

Since TNA is too dumb to hire Joey Ryan, hire Joey Ryan and have him exclusively attempt to wrestle women (ala Andy Kaufman) constantly dragging the Divas to decent matches, but killing them in the end until he meets ONE DIVA that he cannot beat. Have that diva be the champ, have them have a best of three (Joey Loses, Draw, Joey Loses in 2/3 falls match) and put that diva over huge.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

TNA may not have made without Trish forming TNA!

Thanks Trish... :roll:

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

TNA had a great division until they made four of their top girls pull shit out of boxes in the main event of an Impact.

The Knockouts deserved to have an impact main event, but not that. Anything but that.

Kelly Kelly leaving isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing. The Bella Twins leaving wasn't a bad thing, it was a good thing. It's time for some real women in the woman's division.

Once Layla can get to 100 percent from her knee thing we'll be a in a good place without all the sluts.

[Dukelorange]

Divas division is worse off than the Tag division. The girls anymore are like they're playing little league softball and "everyone gets a trophy". Everyone has their turn to be Divas champ for a couple months, then they drop the belt and fall off the map.

The last breath it had as a division was with Lay-Cool. I'm not saying that as the Layla mark I am, I mean they were the last truly interesting thing going on with the women (intentionally not counting Kong due to her angle not working out due to all things baby related). They enacted the Freebird rule on a singles title, attracted attention by doing stuff BESIDES being pretty, were ok in the ring, and even took shots at The Beautiful People for the smarks (I enjoyed the shots both groups took at each other, actually).

Since then, any girls match is a clusterfuck disguised as a piss break. It was at its lowest to me about that time when Gail Kim left WWE this last time (6 on 6 diva tag matches lasting about 90 seconds and the people that start work the entire match... why make it an unneccessary tag match with every set of ovaries you could find?)

You can make the argument that "nobody cares" all you want, but if they actually put thought into it, they could make people care instead of just parading around the next blonde with tits that's "Playboy hot", but can't actually BE in Playboy anymore because ZOMG!!1!PG!! and also can't wrestle or promo worth a damn, so she doesn't catch on and her star burns out quickly.

TNA found a way to do it, and even proved they could fucking draw. But then, it took TOO MUCH time away from the guys and they put a stop to that shit. WWE doesn't have to go that far with the Divas where they have a whole RAW of nothing but womens bouts, but that's one rare case where they could actually learn something from TNA.

Long & short: much like the Tag-Team division, just give the girls some ANGLES... preferably at least a couple that involve pure status jealousy or just straight up hate and not have all of them motivated by "some guy" or "...am I pretty?" Also, don't limit granting angles to just the belt chasers.


I like this way of thinking... Like I said before, the Divas can do angles that the men cannot if they were given the chance. Some of the Divas are decent speakers if given the time and effort. I doubt they would stumble over words if they would speak on something that was worth it. I don't blame the Divas. I blame WWE. They have Tenille Tayla, what happened to her?

Latly I have become a fan of Athena's work (the black chick)

[CSL]

Since TNA is too dumb to hire Joey Ryan, hire Joey Ryan and have him exclusively attempt to wrestle women (ala Andy Kaufman) constantly dragging the Divas to decent matches, but killing them in the end until he meets ONE DIVA that he cannot beat. Have that diva be the champ, have them have a best of three (Joey Loses, Draw, Joey Loses in 2/3 falls match) and put that diva over huge.

this isn't the worst St. Jimmy post ever

[Ermaximus]

I don't think Kharma walking around a ring screaming 'FEED ME MORE' is a good message.

Do they even have random diva jobbers like they do for the men?

[XL]

No, they have "Champion" and "Challenger", then there's "Everybody Else Who Doesn't Really Matter This Month".

As has been said, the belt goes around like a game of Pass The Parcel. Then they cycle in the "Diva Of The Month" for a title fued. She either wins and gets her turn with the belt or loses and joins the "EEWDRMTM" group.

As part of the "EEDWRMTM" group your duties are to job to the champion or that month's challenger, stand on the apron during Tag Team matches or act as a "Lumber Jill".

And that is part of the problem. We're only told to care about 2 Divas at any given time and even then we're not given much reason to. Why invest in a character if they're likely to be relegated to doing nothing at any time.

But the biggest reason that the division is in the state it's in is Vince McMahon and his (reportedly) hot/cold reaction to the Divas. The thing with Beth and Nattie should have been great. It shoudl have lead to Kharma coming out to stand up to the bullies. Or it should have lead to a Nattie v Beth fued. Instead it went nowhere and just disappeared because Vince "lost interest".

Both the Diva's and Tag Team Divisions could be great if they put some thought, effort and TIME into them.

[Keith]

I truly believe that if the Women's Division (I refuse to refer to it as the "Divas Division") doesn't get better once Kharma comes back, then it never will.

[K.Smoke]

I don't think Diva's wrestling is nearing a possible life support status. But I remember when they had their own show G.L.O.W. But back then wrestling or looks wastnt what was important. What was important was what they're lacking now which is mic skills. I am attracted to the AJ story line and the Karma build up b4 she got pregnant was wonderful. But there simply isn't enough talent in Diva wrestling mic wise or wrestling wise to be an option in the near future. Maybe if they make their own brand like in the 70s and 80s they'll have a better shot. Put it on the WWE network channel or on WWE.com like NXT that would help.

[Dukelorange]

A seperate Diva's show could be an option.... However how will the women ever become mainstream? Right now NXT isn't cutting it for divas... Katlyn won NXT, but AJ is in an angle.

[K.Smoke]

A seperate Diva's show could be an option.... However how will the women ever become mainstream? Right now NXT isn't cutting it for divas... Katlyn won NXT, but AJ is in an angle.

They would benefit more if they just seperated. Getting an hour of personal time will build interest quickly simply because its women. Bringing talent would be easy. It would empty out the knockout division quickly. A lot of angles can be drawn for rivalries and I could even see Trish returning for something like that.

[XL]

Hard to imagine a show dedicated to Women's wrestling would fair well ratings-wise.

[K.Smoke]

Not long term no but it would be fun. And I'm sure noone thought that the WWE would grow to be a billion dollar industry in its early years. But the best thing for women wrestling is to get out on their own let them make some real stars.

[Damndirty]

Just throwing a pretty face in there and make her unrealistically into a badass, especially considering how feminine most of them are, then what you should expect to see is slapping, hair pulling, and scratching- which grows very old fast when overused. Women like Chyna, Kharma, Beth Phoenix, Natalya, Luna (RIP), Nicole Bass, ODB, and Jacqueline are the not-so-feminine wrestlers who have a fighting sport build, and who look to if you want to see some more believable and brutal fights. Technical wrestling applied by petite-looking women should not extend to all of the femal roster, in fact, only a couple to one at least, because the appeal of looking threatening just isn't there if you try to put those two attributes together; it should be a rarity, not a commonality. As I have said, most of those petite types should just stick to being valets and managers, otherwise, with their attractiveness, they are expected to be revealing, not tough. Sable was the standout tough petite woman because it was not a normal for a woman to be so on the show in those days. Women who look built for wrestling and can wrestle are fit for the occasional women's wrestling match on each show. WWE just became too fearful of equal rights advocates to put their women back into the so-called slave-like relationship with male wrestlers.

[Dukelorange]

Slaves??? What about Sunny, Debra, and Trish? Or Lita and Vicki... Those ladies were very good at being valets without that label...

[Schlomey]

They have some talent in their roster. Their choice and inability to use the talent is their main problem. The division is NOT on life support. It has always been a distant afterthought. The tag team division is on life support. Something that once was that has since fallen to the wayside. The Divas division is like a baby that was born a brainless vegetable. It may live but it has never been nor ever will be worth the time and money. Awful analogy ...I feel like shit about that already...

[Damndirty]

Slaves??? What about Sunny, Debra, and Trish? Or Lita and Vicki... Those ladies were very good at being valets without that label...

So-called slaves, not literally slaves.

[K.Smoke]

I wouldn't mind seeing them give it a go on their site. Just to see how it would take. Not because i'm a perve but 1. I hate seeing them pillow fight and stuff like that on a good episode of Raw or smackdown and 2. I'd like to see how created they can be with it.