"HOW THE INTERNET HAS RUINED PRO WRESTLING"

[Marc the Smark]

PWTorch.com Guest Editorial
Michael Berman, Westford, Mass.
PWTorch.com reader

Wrestling is fake. There is no denying that. Granted the injuries can be real, the deaths are more than real, but all and all the concept of pro-wrestling is entertainment. Well why is it that this is the only form of entertainment that 30-65 percent of an audience doesn't like but continues to watch?

What am I talking about? I am talking about you, yes, you reading this column right now. Those who have watched shows like Raw and Smackdown and say that the shows suck or say that they are stupid but continue to watch it. Are you mad yet? I am insulting you and your "freedom of speech" you must be saying, if you don't like what we say don't read it. Well here lies the problem. I am not writing this for me. I am writing this for them, the marks, the fans who don't have the understanding of the business as say you or I.

These are the fans that type in wrestling on a search engine and come across websites, due to my journalistic integrity I will not slam websites but we all know whom I am referring to. Once these fans sift through the "Naked pics of Trish Stratus," they come across the "reputable" websites who give a legitimate take on wrestling in the world today.

So what is my point, my point is that people write their views and feelings, negative or positive about say for example the WWE. They write what stinks about it, what needs to change about it, how much the writers stink. Well you know what, maybe it does suck. What I want to know, and I am sure there are people out there like me who want to know, what would you do? If the shows are so boring and lame how would you fix it. If your going to trash the booking tell us what you would do. That is all I ask.

So this leads me to my subject. The internet ruined the wrestling industry because it is so one-sided and jaded. People say that, for example, Chris Beniot should be the champion. Well let me tell you something. If he should be champion, then so should a guy like Lance Storm. Do you want to know the difference between them and Kurt Angle? Kurt Angle has mic skills and wrestling talent. The days of someone just being a "grappler" is dead. Granted Storm and Beniot are both very talented but they are not "championship material" in the WWE today. Why is Triple H still champ? Why is Kevin Nash pushed despite his lack of moves? Because they have the charisma. They know how to market themselves to get the butts in the seats.

Granted it's not 1998 anymore, we don't have the element of completion that we had before. But it's still the whole gimmick that gets a guy over whether face or heel not just how well he can put on a Sharpshooter. Now to play devil's advocate I will give the example of Sting. He said absolutely nothing from 1996-1997 but why was he over? Because the storyline was a booker's dream. He had mystique and would come down from the rafters or just stay up there with his bat and point and say absolutely nothing. His program was against an entire gang, which is why he didn't have to speak, which is why when he said "LA MAMA CITA" after his "win" at Starcade '97, it was almost humorous.

In closing, I would like to say that I want feedback. I would LOVE feedback. I want to know why I am a "fan boy" or a "smart" or even god forbid a "mark." Because you know what, I would rather be a mark and enjoy what is supposed to be entertainment than be bitter and complain about every little thing in this business. I wish I never discovered the internet "dirt sheets." I wish none of you did either because maybe if these didn't exist than maybe just maybe you could enjoy something that you enjoyed as a child or as a teenager, but you know the difference, you would be not a critic, but a fan!

I posted this article to see what you think of it, not that I necessarily agree with it. - RHS

[big_bluto]

What a well thought and constructive argument.
Pity that the writer is talking sh</>it.

I still love wrestling, but if something happens that I don't like, at least now I have the forum to vent my frustrations, indulge in fantasy bookings, lots of humour, and likewise, if something happens that I think is great, then I can communicate that and enjoy other peoples reactions to it.

I don't think that the internet has or can kill pro-wrestling. Perhaps this would be the case if everyody believed that wrestling is real, and the internet exposed a massive cover-up. But then that's not the case is it?

Besides, if you don't want to view sites like TPWW.net, then don't!
Freedom of choice remember!

[Kane Knight]

I don't think he's a fanboy or smark, I think he's an idiot.

I really should add more than just that.

[tucsonspeed6]

He picked a good topic to write about, being that many smarks complain about petty things that really don't need changing, but he's still a dumbass for the way he said it.

What's with his arguement? Internet fans killed wrestling because they want Benoit to win the title because he's entertaining, but HHH is entertaining too so he's the better candidate because .......WTF? It's just rambling. Pure and simple rambling. The guy has 600 petty things he's pissed off about and he's bitching about internet fans being pissed off over petty things.

[Marc the Smark]

He picked a good topic to write about, being that many smarks complain about petty things that really don't need changing, but he's still a dumbass for the way he said it.

What's with his arguement? Internet fans killed wrestling because they want Benoit to win the title because he's entertaining, but HHH is entertaining too so he's the better candidate because .......WTF? It's just rambling. Pure and simple rambling. The guy has 600 petty things he's pissed off about and he's bitching about internet fans being pissed off over petty things.

Well said! :y:

[Kane Knight]

Who does Triple H entertain, anyways? He's been responsible for many a dead crowd. He's not entertaining the internet fans. He's not entertaining the casual fans, who have more or less abandoned the WWE.

[Marc the Smark]

Wrestling is fake. There is no denying that.

F</>uck yes there is. Just because it's choreographed doesn't make it fake. Are movies fake? Are tv shows fake? He wants to seem intelligent, but he's calling the business "fake." Right away, his credibility is shot.


What am I talking about? I am talking about you, yes, you reading this column right now.

What about him writing it?


So this lads me to my subject. The internet ruined the wrestling industry because it is so one-sided and jaded. People say that, for example, Chris Beniot should be the champion. Well let me tell you something. If he should be champion, then so should a guy like Lance Storm.

Yeah, why not?


Why is Kevin Nash pushed despite his lack of moves?

Because Vince McMahon has a big man fetish. Fact is, Nash was one of the WORST DRAWING CHAMPS EVER.


In closing, I would like to say that I want feedback. I would LOVE feedback. I want to know why I am a "fan boy" or a "smart" or even god forbid a "mark." Because you know what, I would rather be a mark and enjoy what is supposed to be entertainment than be bitter and complain about every little thing in this business. I wish I never discovered the internet "dirt sheets." I wish none of you did either because maybe if these didn't exist than maybe just maybe you could enjoy something that you enjoyed as a child or as a teenager, but you know the difference, you would be not a critic, but a fan!

Then be a f</>ucking mark, but don't be a f</>ucking idiot.

[Rob]

Guy seems like bit of a mark for himself in my book. Nothing will ever convince me that the internet ruined pro wrestling unless the internet killed WCW, the internet goes into booking meetings and decides what's on Raw and Smackdown, the internet books indy stars for shows that draw 27 people, etc

[PureHatred]

I hate when people blame the Internet for the fall of wrestling. All the internet has done is give fans a forum to express their feelings, to interact with those with similar interests (because, as we all know, the general populace can be cruel to wrestling fans *sigh*), and to lean more about something we all have a passion for. There are a lot of fans that would know nothing about the WWE pre-1999 w/o thr "net. There are those who would have no way to access any company except the WWE without the Internet, without dl'ing ROH matches from Kazaa, without accessing indy sites and message boards. Hell, I didn't even know Pro Wrestling Guerilla was holding shows in my area until I looked it up. The Internet, if anythng, has actually made wrestling fans more knowledgeable and more demanding.

Honestly, how many of us would know who guys like Bryan Danielson, Doug Williams, Chris Daniels or Johnny Storm were without the IWC? How many of us would have seen any Puroresu matches if we hadn't been exposed to them through other fans or clips that we say on the Net?

The INternet has made us better fans of wrestling. Has it made us less blindly appreciative of the WWE specifically? Yes. But dont blame us. If consumers have become more inteligent and more demanding, you don't blame them when they are unsatisfied by the produt. You blame the product for not being able to keep up with demands.

I mean, really, do you tell someone who has a crappy phone service to make less calls. "Hey, you never needed call waiting and free long distance when you were a teenager." No..you tell him to find a new service. And whatever crap service he was using either has to improve or they lose their customers.

Basically, what I'm saying, is that the world has changed. In all entertainment aspects, from sports to movies to video games, the voice and demands of internet fans is affecing the market. It's the WWE's job to adjust, not ours. In a free market society, if a company cannot evolve, then it dies. And no amount of blaming the fans can stop it.

[Kane Knight]

Guy seems like bit of a mark for himself in my book. Nothing will ever convince me that the internet ruined pro wrestling unless the internet killed WCW, the internet goes into booking meetings and decides what's on Raw and Smackdown, the internet books indy stars for shows that draw 27 people, etc
If only Icould rep you for this statement.

You're da man, Rob, you're da man.

[Kane Knight]

By the way, when the WWE stops ENCOURAGING people to go online, to look behind the curtain (With shows like Confidential and Experience on the air), with Tuff Enuff (Or however it's speelld), when they stop encouraging internet commerce by selling products online and selling webcasts of their PPVs...

then we'll talk about the internet being bad for wrestling. Seems to me, it's been good for wrestling, it's been good for wrestling fans, and now that times are tough, they've turned it into a scapegoat.

[PureHatred]

Red Hot Scott, since you found this, why not send these replies or a link to this thread to this, Michael Berman idiot? That way maybe he could see what people think of his ramblings. Just a suggestion.

[Kane Knight]

But we're all internet smarts! We're ruining the business! What could we know?

I like the notion of "well if it's so bad, what would YOU do?"

It turns it right back on us. Well, I've got news for you.

Very few of us are paid professionals in the area of mass entertainment. The bookers are. Most of us can only speak for what does or doesn't entertain us. They should be expected to do more, because IT'S THEIR JOB. They're SUPPOSED to figure out what will entertain the masses, and adjust things when they don't work. Maybe the internet "smarks" don't have all the answers, ut we're not expected to. Pro Wrestling panders to the fans, not vice versa.

[Marc the Smark]

By the way, when the WWE stops ENCOURAGING people to go online, to look behind the curtain (With shows like Confidential and Experience on the air), with Tuff Enuff (Or however it's speelld), when they stop encouraging internet commerce by selling products online and selling webcasts of their PPVs...

then we'll talk about the internet being bad for wrestling. Seems to me, it's been good for wrestling, it's been good for wrestling fans, and now that times are tough, they've turned it into a scapegoat.

:y: I couldn't agree more. They have to blame it on something, right? Unfortunately, until those who are to blame take a good look in the mirror, their mistakes will remain uncorrected, and the product will continue to suffer. And though I appreciate his efforts, Michael Berman is a fool.

[Nowhere Man]

But we're all internet smarts! We're ruining the business! What could we know?

I like the notion of "well if it's so bad, what would YOU do?"

It turns it right back on us. Well, I've got news for you.

Very few of us are paid professionals in the area of mass entertainment. The bookers are. Most of us can only speak for what does or doesn't entertain us. They should be expected to do more, because IT'S THEIR JOB. They're SUPPOSED to figure out what will entertain the masses, and adjust things when they don't work. Maybe the internet "smarks" don't have all the answers, ut we're not expected to. Pro Wrestling panders to the fans, not vice versa.

I'd rep you for that if I could.

[Team Sheep]

I don't agree with his point about wrestling being fake. Scripted would be more precise.

[Tiken]

If people want to see real wrestling or real fighting in a ring then they can go and watch UFC. WWE and alike are for the entertainment, I watch because I wish to see whats going to happen to who next week, mind you I do love the art of wrestling however in this new generation of it wrestling has been overshadowed by the sitcom aspect of the show(s).

And if I want to see real wrestling (still fake) I can go over to the hall here and watch Stampede Wrestling every other week.

[Kane Knight]

:y: I couldn't agree more. They have to blame it on something, right? Unfortunately, until those who are to blame take a good look in the mirror, their mistakes will remain uncorrected, and the product will continue to suffer. And though I appreciate his efforts, Michael Berman is a fool.
The problem is, like rednecks blaming immigrants and blacks, the scapegoat isn't going to go away. The internet's here to stay, so it's HIGHLY unlikely they'll ever need to stop milking their little anti-internet fetish.

As long as they're playing the blame game, they don't have to accept that they're losing their NON internet fans due to LACK OF INTEREST.

[Kane Knight]

I don't agree with his point about wrestling being fake. Scripted would be more precise.
Well, it is fake. Staged, Scripted, let's not play semantics.

It's not supposed to be real, it's supposed to be entertaining.

[DaveWadding]

Kevin Nash [...] [has] charisma. [He] know[s] how [...] to get the butts in the seats.




:lol: At this bit. I paraphrased it into the right tense, and hopefully kept the integrity of the original quote.

[Kane Knight]

You know what "ruined" pro wrestling for me?

Dubya See Dubya.

A couple of things in WCW really changed how I looked at wrestling. The cruiserweights were fu</>cking amazing, and made a lot of the "legends" of yesteryear like Hogan look like Clowns. They also gave wrestling fans a chance to pick on Monday nights (Dring the MNW deal, natch).

The WWf's own actions didn't help them, either.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree with a lot of what the writer said, but the way they said it was a bit to "I'm so great!"ish, IMO.

First of, yes there is a lot of negative comments going around the internet about the WWE product. I don't think I've ever knocked on their company, after all, Vicne is a way better wrestling promoter than I am. But when people do complain, 90% of the time it is one of two things:

1. Markism.
Not quite being a mrk, but people want to "mark out" out the WWE product. When the WWE doesn't do that, it is not the people who didn't "mark out"'s fault, but the deliverers of the product. Sure it is aimed at mark, but when the WWE really delivers I find myself squealing like a little school girl. WWE is capable of putting stuff like that on, so when people don't see the writers doing that, they get offended so to speak. I can't say Im one of them, but I know how they're feeling. I want to see the product that sells tickets, not just the wrestlers that sell the tickets.

2. Frustration
Probably could be connected to #1 in a way, but when people watch they see the perfect oppourtunity, but just like soccer it might be harder to see it mid-game. We see the marks going "Go Austin!", we see the internet community going "Go Benoit!", I'm sure management has the hardest thing to do, not knowing who, what, when, where and how right from the start. We think we know everything, but we don't. Nobody does. That is why the information we know is cut and sliced and passed around in different forms. Marks got the guys the WWE pushes, we got the guys we like, and management has to give it out in healthy doses. I don't think any side could really understand the other completely, so we're stuck like this. Why complain? It is just the internet community sees something good and calls out to WWE "Why isn't that happening?", nothing wrong with that of course, as we do pretty much what the WWE puts on TV, but we all think we could do a great job at running a promotion. The marks are those wild cards that we need to keep in mind. It is hard for the WWE to push people both teams like.

I feel the WWE pushed the entertainment during the 1998 period. Then when we demand sports, they need to keep the level of entertainment in the same proportion it used to be in order to still aim at the same target audiences. I can't imagine how hard it really is to right storylines that put good workers, and power hungry squash machines at one time, I guess we just have to keep faith and hope the WWE keeps on bringing that sports entertainment. :-\

[Champion of Europa]

Who does Triple H entertain, anyways? He's been responsible for many a dead crowd. He's not entertaining the internet fans. He's not entertaining the casual fans, who have more or less abandoned the WWE.

He entertains me. :/

[Fryza]

Wait, isn't he being hypocritical? He typed that to be POSTED on the net, and is a FAN using the NET. Doesn't that make him one of the net fans? Or did he mention that in his write up?

[Kane Knight]

You missed the fine print:

DISCLAIMER: This columnist speaks pure ass.

Apologies for stealing Ferocious' catch phrase.

[Rob]

The problem is, like rednecks blaming immigrants and blacks, the scapegoat isn't going to go away. The internet's here to stay, so it's HIGHLY unlikely they'll ever need to stop milking their little anti-internet fetish.

As long as they're playing the blame game, they don't have to accept that they're losing their NON internet fans due to LACK OF INTEREST.

It's always someone else's fault though. Can anyone name one single time where they did something wrong (and they have done thousands of things wrong in 30+ years) and which they actually admitted to fault? Remember, this is a company who actually had the nerve and tried to take zero responsibility for the death of one of their own employees in their own ring.

[Rob]

Did anyone say anything bad about WWE when they are doing great business and were appealing to a very larger audience?

I seem to recall just about everyone with a brain who was online at the time throwing ideas around to save WCW. I myself must have wrote at least 100 in a 6 month span. I guess it was us who killed WCW though.

[Kane Knight]

It's always someone else's fault though. Can anyone name one single time where they did something wrong (and they have done thousands of things wrong in 30+ years) and which they actually admitted to fault? Remember, this is a company who actually had the nerve and tried to take zero responsibility for the death of one of their own employees in their own ring.
No, I know. It'll always be something. Even though you had workers saying that if it wasn't Owen, it'd be someone else, and anyone who turned it down knew they'd be risking their paycheck...Even though the stunt was half-cooked and poorly executed...It can't be the WWE's fault.

[Gerard]

Its just as well i read the opening blabber on this thread because when i seen scotts second reply i thought for a minute he was arguing with himself..... :wtf:

[Rob]

Its just as well i read the opening blabber on this thread because when i seen scotts second reply i thought for a minute he was arguing with himself..... :wtf:

Funnily enough, I had to second look it.

[MVP]

He's just using the internet as a scapegoat because he's a Triple H mark, and thinks Benoit sucks, and shouldn't be champion.

Notice he didn't mention Guerrero, but he did mention Kurt Angle.

[Corkscrewed]

Ah, just another person putting blame simply on one general group as if it solves all of his problems. IMO He's not even worth discussing.

[Goldbird]

An other thing to mention is that...

SO what if the wrestling fans have been posting their ideas and comments on the internet? Do the wrestling companies even give a **** to what we are saying? No, they dont, purely because of the fact that they employ a bunch of bitch****s "scriptwriters" who would be better off writing bedtime stories than inventing storylines.

I tell you, the only direction that WWE should head into, is to look around the internet, looking for feasible storylines that fans have though of, instead of letting the old fogey scriptwriters invent gay storylines that would only appeal to the gay community.

[King Jericho]

I actually think the product is on the way up :y:

[Goldbird]

How?

[Kane Knight]

I actually think the product is on the way up :y:
It's definitely better than it was a couple of years ago. On its way up? Perhaps. Time will tell.

[Rob]

I actually think the product is on the way up :y:

Personally I don't see much difference. Two new stars in Guerrero and Benoit but their challenge will be when they lose the title and how strong they are kept then. I was chatting to CyNick about this the other day and we are both convinced Benoit will be doing clean job to Randy Orton in IC title matches when he loses the strap.

[The CyNick]

Did anyone say anything bad about WWE when they are doing great business and were appealing to a very larger audience?

I seem to recall just about everyone with a brain who was online at the time throwing ideas around to save WCW. I myself must have wrote at least 100 in a 6 month span. I guess it was us who killed WCW though.

This is the thing that always gets to me.

Back in the day when WWE was hot and WCW was not I used to frequent a massage board (not this one) and had almost nothing bad to say about the WWE product and very little good to say about the WCW product. IMO those positions were justified, WWE was doing great TV/PPV house shows, and WCW was doing a poor job with all those things.

During that time, I never once seen the WWE criticize the 'net. In fact they loved the net, as I recall they had two or three internet shows, where they took pot shots at WCW for being so stupid and soaked in the praise of the fans. Now that they have been screwing things up for the better part of 3 years, you get JR and others coming on their one remaining internet show calling their most loyal fans morons (for lack of a better term).

In terms of the Benoit and Guerrero thing, consider this, even though Eddie is the Linear World Champion, he is the top guy on SD, and right now SD is being booked to look like a minor league product. Then on RAW, Benoit is the Fake World Champion, but the show is treated as the main program, so in a lot of ways his title is more important than Eddie's. However, has Benoit main evented a PPV without HHH? The answer is no, and it will continue through Bad Blood and then Hunter will get the title back. So even though Benoit has the title, HHH is and always will be the top guy on RAW, and thus in the WWE. Yes we have some good matches in the mian events now that Benoit is the champ and has to be in the mix, but dont be fooled he is NOT the top guy on RAW, that spot still belongs to Pinocchio.

As for the article, the dude lost all credibility when he said Nash put butts into seats. When did this happen?

[Kane Knight]

As a fan of WCW (Even though I'd sometimes nto watch it for a week or two due to bad storylines), it was hard to go on the internet and not hear people going, "wwf r0x0rz wcw is teh sux!!!!!11111111"

That's not to say that There weren't valid reasons for preferring WWF over WCW, but it goes to show how bigthe WWF was at the time, and how it wasn't the internet fans or people breaking KAYFABE...

[Heyman]

As a fan of WCW (Even though I'd sometimes nto watch it for a week or two due to bad storylines), it was hard to go on the internet and not hear people going, "wwf r0x0rz wcw is teh sux!!!!!11111111"

That's not to say that There weren't valid reasons for preferring WWF over WCW, but it goes to show how bigthe WWF was at the time, and how it wasn't the internet fans or people breaking KAYFABE...

EXACTLY.

p.s. Does anyone else think that the WWF screwed themselves over by creating such 'productions' such as "Beyond The Mat", "Tough Enough", etc.,?

It was the WWE which broke kayfabe with their product.

[Rob]

EXACTLY.

p.s. Does anyone else think that the WWF screwed themselves over by creating such 'productions' such as "Beyond The Mat", "Tough Enough", etc.,?

It was the WWE which broke kayfabe with their product.

WWE never produced Beyond The Mat but your point is still valid.

Who was it who went on national TV in the 1980's telling the world wrestling was fake? Oh it was Vince McMahon. Who let 2 independent production groups into his comeback to film backstage and break kayfabe? Vince McMahon maybe? Who was it who spent millions of dollars redesigning his web site and pulling his employees from doing any interviews on any site but his own? It might just have been Vince McMahon you know.

[El Santo]

Wow.

The guy posted an article on the internet complaining about how people on the internet complain too much.

The irony is thick and heavy.

OK, so I sorta agree that internet communities can be guilty of groupthink and criticism, but, goddamn, how different is that from any group of people offline? Of course, the guy says he encourages feedback, but you just KNOW he only wants it so he sneer at all the ignorant internet fans that are writing in.

[Heyman]

WWE never produced Beyond The Mat but your point is still valid.

Who was it who went on national TV in the 1980's telling the world wrestling was fake? Oh it was Vince McMahon. Who let 2 independent production groups into his comeback to film backstage and break kayfabe? Vince McMahon maybe? Who was it who spent millions of dollars redesigning his web site and pulling his employees from doing any interviews on any site but his own? It might just have been Vince McMahon you know.

Love your custom title. :D

Sorry I ruined Friends for you though. :$

p.s. Back on topic - I think because the WWE have really broken kayfabe with their product in recent years, they have become more 'restricted' with the gimmicks that they can use on TV. As result - they are almost forced to use more 'generic' characters on TV (such as "The Bashams, Mark Jindrak, Garrison Cade, Rodney Mack, Jaimie Noble Dave Batista, etc, etc., etc.).

Back in the late 90's, the WWE could freely use GIMMICKS and not have to feel embarrassed about whether the fans would think it's corny or not. You had the mysterious Brood, pornstar Val Venis,, PIMP Godfather, Lord of Darkness Undertaker, deranged Mankind, Goldust, Headbangers, Oddities, etc, etc, etc,.

<font color=white>The diversity and "intrigue" of the gimmicks is what helped get the fans interested</font>

At the time - the fans BOUGHT into the fact that what they were watching "wasn't real"..............yet still ALLOWED themselves to be "caught up in the make-believe world".

THAT is why things back then (i.e. Undertaker sacrificing people, Rikishi running over Austin, Val Venis sleeping with everyone's wife, Kane being burned as a child, etc.) was ACCEPTED amongst the fans.

Today - you can't do that.

WHY!?!?!??! <font color=white>Because - the WWE "turned their backs" on their OWN product. </font>

Instead of continuing with their "theatre mentality" from the late 90's/early 2000's, the WWE decided to try and come across as a borderline reality show.

If The Rock were to come out tommorow on Raw and was introduced as "Dwayne Johnson" should the fans be surprised?

[Marc the Smark]

PWTorch.com Guest Editorial
Michael Berman, Westford, Mass.
PWTorch.com reader

Well why is it that this is the only form of entertainment that 30-65 percent of an audience doesn't like but continues to watch?

Because maybe we hope it will get better. GOD FORBID we actually watch the next week of programming hoping that someone might go out and decide to have a 4 star match, or have a funny backstage segment. You are SO right. People who are optimistic like that are SUCH assholes.

[Kane Knight]

EXACTLY.

p.s. Does anyone else think that the WWF screwed themselves over by creating such 'productions' such as "Beyond The Mat", "Tough Enough", etc.,?

It was the WWE which broke kayfabe with their product.
And they were doing it before Tough Enough...

[Batsu]

Instead of continuing with their "theatre mentality" from the late 90's/early 2000's, the WWE decided to try and come across as a borderline reality show.

If The Rock were to come out tommorow on Raw and was introduced as "Dwayne Johnson" should the fans be surprised?

This was a good thing. However, gimmicks are always going to exist in pro wrestling.

The "theatre mentality" was poised to shoot WWE in the rear eventually. Stuff like the Al Wilson, Katie Vick, and Undertaker-vs-DDP debacles (the reason I list that last one is because it prominently featured Undertaker's wife, and she called him "Mark" on TV)...it would eventually wear thin. And it did. For now, I think WWE is slowly learning that some gimmicks just should be left to the wrestlers. After all, you don't see The Quebecers around anymore, do you? (Oh, wait...)

The lack of "gimmick names" that are popping up now is actually kind of cool. It's a lot like WCW was doing in the 90s (and before), before they started to imitate WWE.

WWE wrestlers like Stone Cold, The Rock, HHH, and Shawn Michaels are well established. There's no need to modify them. After all, the reason these guys have stuck around is because they took what could have been a dead-end gimmick and turned it more "real". That's what made WWE popular in the '90s, not the "theater" mentality. It's more "reality"-driven content is just the natural progression...

[Batsu]

And they were doing it before Tough Enough...

Right. They let The Rock's "non-wrestling" name slip on actual WWE events more than once. Even in The Rock's first home video, he called himself "Dwayne Johnson".

They had A&E specials devoted to their wrestlers.

and in the case of Mick Foley...they realized they couldn't fool wrestling fans with a Mankind mask when they knew he was Cactus Jack from WCW and ECW. In fact, the breaking of kayfabe in his case was a big part of his WWE successes.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, peeking behind the mask, playing on the real man behind the "legend," so to speak. Foley's real life has come into play quite often...

...Makes me wonder if he means all those shots I've heard him take at internet fans.

[c4g2]

This guy is complaining about the Net on the Net... How ironic.
:shifty:

[Kane Knight]

Yeah. It's almost as ironic as the WWE blaming the internet, but relying on it so heavily...

[John la Rock]

Who does Triple H entertain, anyways? He's been responsible for many a dead crowd. He's not entertaining the internet fans. He's not entertaining the casual fans, who have more or less abandoned the WWE.

It's only idiot smarks like yourself who think that shit

[Rob]

It's only idiot smarks like yourself who think that shit

So people haven't stopped watching WWE because they got bored of HHH?

Tool!

[Marc the Smark]

It wasn't the internet that ruined pro wrestling. It was pro wrestling that ruined the internet. :shifty:

[LK]

I think that this guy who posted that will find that the internet hasn't ruined pro wrestling but having crappy storylines and god awful wrestlers such as JBL, hardcore holly and steiner getting main event pushes while people like rey mysterio, ultimo dragon, seano'haire, rhyno the hurricane etc real talent have nothing are the cause for some of the decline in wrestling

[M-A-G]

I ruined pro wrestling. Pure and simple.

[ColdwaVer]

...it prominently featured Undertaker's wife, and she called him "Mark" on TV)

Which is absurd, since everyone who was watchging WWF at the time of the Undertaker's debut knows that his first name is actually Kane.

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Wait a minute... :rant:

[Rock Bottom]

Everyone talks about the "Monday Night War" being so good for the business. In a large picture, yes. In pieces of a puzzle, right now, you're seeing the aftereffects of it. That arguement was horribly executed by that guy.

Most people will complain when something sucks. Not because they are jaded. They can't always please us, they've said that. And it's true. However, when something sucks, we are still going to say it sucks. It doesn't mean we're turning off our TVs. Moron. Good thread by the way.