A deep look into the action film genre

[Zeeboe]

It seems to me most films mirror whatever is going on in the world. In the 1980's, the U.S.A. was feuding with Russia who made it clear they were going to beat us through strength and aggression, as in, "we've got the biggest muscles/guns and we're not afraid to use them".

To prove we Americans are just as bad-ass as Russia, in a lot of action films, you often saw a brawny looking bad-ass....fighting with another brawny looking-bad-ass.


Today, it's all mostly pretty boys or average looking guys who don't look like they could kick any ass at all playing the action heroes or a woman plays a role a man should be playing. Such as the case with the T-X in "Terminator 3".

I realize producers these days use the angle of "It's one you least suspect" to explain their poor casting. That's honestly not my thing, and I feel it's been overplayed way too much in action movies for the last ten years or so. To me, it's just an excuse to justfity why Hollywood these days gets pretty boys to play action heroes, or puts women in roles that men would have been playing if it was the 1980's.

However, if you think about it - Through out the 2000's in the real world, no one knows who to trust, or who the enemy is, they could be among us, sitting next to us on the bus, or it could be the government, and this is reflected in our action films in which "ordinary" people are either the villian of the movie or they are the heroes and are caught up in situations and have to fight, but inevitably end up wondering if what they're doing is right and if violence or revenge is ultimately a good thing, blah, blah, and all that liberal cheesy nonsense. :)

[Kalyx triaD]

It seems to me most films mirror whatever is going on in the world. In the 1980's, the U.S.A. was feuding with Russia who made it clear they were going to beat us through strength and aggression, as in, "we've got the biggest muscles/guns and we're not afraid to use them".

No.

...Or a woman plays a role a man should be playing. Such as the case with the T-X in "Terminator 3".

T-X was supposed to be a female, that was the hook. A terminator can be male or female anyway, depending on the mission and model.

I realize producers these days use the angle of "It's one you least suspect" to explain their poor casting. That's honestly not my thing, and I feel it's been overplayed way too much in action movies for the last ten years or so. To me, it's just an excuse to justfity why Hollywood these days gets pretty boys to play action heroes, or puts women in roles that men would have been playing if it was the 1980's.

Seriously don't get where you're going with this woman playing a male part thing.

[Kalyx triaD]

You have an issue with chicks leading in action movies?

[Zeeboe]

Hell yes. When it comes to action films, I am old-school and prefer seeing one bad-ass looking man fighting with another bad-ass looking man. For the most part, in real life that is, crazy people look like...well, crazy people, and bad-ass heroes look like bad-ass heroes, and most criminals are men. In my view, there is way too much of that nonsense going on in movies where they get pretty people to play the bad guys, and they overuse that angle of it being the one "you least suspect". - (Again, they are playing off 9/11 and all the nonsense that has gone on through out the 2000's in my view.)

It's more fun and entertaining seeing two bad-ass men fighting each other for power and control. That's why football, MMA, WWE wrestling, and action movies have always been a big hit. Seeing Arnold fighting with some little girl in Terminator 3 who is young enough to be his daughter is not entertaining at all to me. In my view, men are more threatening people then women, and everyone knows this. That's why when police officers have to deal with a case that involves a child, they typically send a FEMALE officer to handle it because the police know a male cop might scare whatever child is involved in the case.

I am not scared of a Prom Queen cheerleader model with very little talent at all other then being eye candy or some pretty boy who would get raped within five minutes if he was sent to prison. These types of people couldn't scare a puppy. The ONLY reasons why they even have a woman parts men should play or they get pretty boy models for the lead roles is for sex appeal, so they could attract a younger fanbase, or (in the case of a lady playing a hero) so they can prove to the world that their film is not sexist. LAME!

All and all, I am very happy that we at least have the 80's and that generation's epic action films, and none of this "do the right thing", "revenge is wrong", nonsense with a ken or barbie doll looking person as the lead like we do today. :n: I truly miss the 1980's when you had guys like Arnold, Stallone, Jessie Ventura, Carl Weathers, Kurt Russell, Bruce Willis, and more. You're never going to see any young guys like that because all the roles that they should be playing are going to models!

Like Arnold often says in his films "I'll be back." - Hopefully the alpha man will return one day to action films, but that might not happen unless the U.S.A. becomes enemies with someone who is out in the open about who they are, and brags about how bad-ass they are.


I get Hollywood desires to make as much money as they can from the general public, so they figure, by having a good looking guy or good looking woman play the hero or the villian of the movie, it will attract a larger audience that just goes to movies to drool at the actors or actress's. And I think Hollywood forever fears offending people, and they figure by having a woman play a role a man should have had, they can show the ultra-liberal crowd that they are on their side. Again, it's a shame that politically correctness had to ruins films which is exactly what happened in Terminator 3. It just goes to show there is one thing not even the Terminator can overcome, and that is politically correctness, and ultra-sensitive liberals.

[Fignuts]

You use T3 as an example? She was a fucking terminator. Who cares what the fuck she looks like? She's packing a god damn rail gun.

[Zeeboe]

And I am just typIng that I think it would have been cooler if the villian in T-3 could have been intimidating. Someone like Jason Statham or Vin Diesel or The Rock or some MMA guy or NFL guy. Seeing someone like that duking it out with Arnold would have rocked.

[Fignuts]

Being female didn't make her any less intimidating to me.

In fact, the character probably wouldn't have worked as a male. The new terminator was sleek and optimized more for speed and agility. The female "skin" fit that a lot better than some roided out, muscle head.

[Fignuts]

Also, you do realize that there are thousands of female MMA fighters, and probably millions of female martial artists, and the idea of a female badass is not science fiction?

Hell, Milla Jovovich, probably the most prominent female action star of all time, is versed in a variety of martial arts, and could probaly kick the living crap out of you.

[Zeeboe]

Very likely, yes. I'd probably enjoy it too. ;) If I and a female MMA fighter were in a horror setting, me at 6'4, 245 would be cowering behind one of those MMA women as well. So yes, casting a chick in a violent role is totally possible. However, I could also take my shirt off at a public beach. Doesn't mean it's right. Catch my drift? :) AND if a female MMA fighter went up against Kimbo Slice, and Kimbo had to fight for whatever reason, who do you honestly think would win?


Having said that, action movies these days are far softer than those in the 80s. Hollywood is less comfortable mindlessly blowing people away without first examining why the bad people are motivated to do what they do, and they need to get high audience figures and so the violence is toned down to get a lower rating. It's just a shame that we adult men can't have movies with lots of cursing, one-liners, and violence without chicks and kids screwing it up since Hollywood just has to consider their feelings when they should not be watching action films. When I was growing up, we little boys had our OWN action films.

Hollywood also casts good-looking people instead of rugged people way too often, which makes for a less gung-ho experience in my view.

"The Dark Knight Rises" however was awesome cause Bane was an old-school bad-ass. He looked tough and was tough. Nothing against Scarecrow and Joker - Love both those characters, but in a fist-fight, Batman could kill those guys, whereas Bane could hold his own against Batman - Both physically and mentally.

"The Expendables 2" was also a kick-ass film for obvious reasons.


In conclusion, I don't think all the newer action films are bad necessarily, just different, although sometimes I do crave a simpler time when the hero was muscular, didn't look like an average Joe, and was a man who was 35-years old or older, and he killed the bad guy who was also a man, brawny, scary-looking, 35-years old or older, and not an average Joe, and we didn't have to start wondering whether the heel of the movie was actually good deep down inside and whether the hero was going to be emotionally scarred by it all, and all that other ultra-liberal hand-wringing!

[Sixx]

And I am just typIng that I think it would have been cooler if the villian in T-3 could have been intimidating. Someone like Jason Statham or Vin Diesel or The Rock or some MMA guy or NFL guy. Seeing someone like that duking it out with Arnold would have rocked.

Early balding isn't intimidating.

[Zeeboe]

Tell that to Stone Cold. :)

[Swish]

Your forgetting one film :)

http://mollytanzer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/tt0114614_largecover.jpg

[Zeeboe]

Which one?


Oh, that.....never saw it. :)

[Fignuts]

So yes, casting a chick in a violent role is totally possible. However, I could also take my shirt off at a public beach. Doesn't mean it's right. Catch my drift? :)

Agree to disagree.




AND if a female MMA fighter went up against Kimbo Slice, and Kimbo had to fight for whatever reason, who do you honestly think would win?

Honestly?

[Kalyx triaD]

Ugh.

Number one, TX is probably the most lethal terminator. Right next to Cameron (TSCC), also a girl, and also more lethal than the 'Arnold' types. You go, "Haha a girl?" while she transforms her hand into a fucking rail gun. Or buzzsaw. In fact, your attitude toward her is the danger appeal. You refuse to recognize the danger and that makes you an instant easy target. Your sexism victimizes you. See how that irony works? But that gets into another conversation entirely.

Well all in all you've made your case clearly enough. You have some shallow fetish for macho action leads and I guess that's well and good. I disagree. Many of my own stories have strong female characters. I enjoy stories with them as well. I'm also a huge Dante (DMC classic) mark, who's as macho as it gets.

I recommend Lockdown with Guy Pearce if you're missing that old male ruffian type. It captures the era well, and the lead is a tough, funny guy. I also recommend you broaden your horizons on what a powerful character can be. Throwing 'old fashioned' around doesn't mask what's really your beef. Just saying.

Nice chatting with you.

[Zeeboe]

Not really a fetish. Just an old-school mindset and I'm clearly not the only one since MMA and the NFL are popular. I realize the T-X character is dangerous, which is why I wish a more dangerous looking person (as in a brawny man) would have played the part. It's like having a damn chick headline at Wrestlemania while wrestling a man. For a BDSM porno, that sounds fine, but not for Wrestlemania.

When it comes to sports, or violence, or action films - I am very sexist, and old fashion, and think the ladies need to stand to the side. Hell, back in the 80's in the WWF, women were not wrestling and were just eye candy. These days, so much time is wasted on boring women's wrestling matches. Porno is fine, but it needs it's own place.


It seems all this liberal nonsense started in the 90's after we realized Russia was no real threat afterall, and that the biggest threat was Vietnam - Again, the one we least suspected, which is why that angle now reflects too many films. In the 90's, it was the era of the "New Man" who is supposed to be in touch with his feminine side and who looks after his nails and uses moisturiser and hair products. At the same time, there's no longer a clear enemy in global politics, so action films go all gooey. You could argue Terminator 2 started the trend, with a killing machine that learns the value of life and doesn't kill anyone, and a killer robot that looks surprisingly inoffensive (although, to be fair, it worked perfectly). If you think of action movie in the 90s, loads of them were pretty-much disaster movies where the 'enemy' was either nature or aliens - Armageddon, Twister, Jurassic Park, Independence Day, Deep Impact, Volcano, The Matrix. We weren't really sure what we were doing.

At the same time, films became so much softer. Cinema responded to the challenge of TV in the 50s by introducing colour and widescreen, things TV couldn't do. In the 70s, as cinema audiences again fell, they introduced violence and nudity. In the 90s, having to compete with TV and video games, if they made R-rated movies, it would restrict the potential audience to a level that was not economically viable, so you can see a definite trend to 'purify' action movies by cutting down on violence, swearing, gore and nudity to get more bums on seats and thus more cash.


So all and all - Politics and greediness are what is screwing up the action genre of today.

[dronepool]

I realize the T-X character is dangerous, which is why I wish a more dangerous looking person (as in a brawny man) would have played the part. It's like having a damn chick headline at Wrestlemania while wrestling a man.


Come on though, people like the Terminator franchise, WWE Divas aren't even in the same level. If an actress can pull it off well, I don't see a problem with it.

[Kalyx triaD]

This is the part where he makes his unpopular point with a 'Bring it on' post. He knows he's sparking the camp fire, waiting for the others to gather. Let it go, drone. He's made his point and we made ours. This can go no further.

[Zeeboe]

I'm not trolling. I enjoy deep, thought-provoking discussions, but sensitive people get the wrong idea. Funny how I can post this on other forums, and no one gets offended, yet on others, they do. I personally love it when my ideas are challenged. It puts me to the test, and can sometimes help me grow. Because I either learn something new in a debate or I become more passionate about my own beliefs because a debate forces me to study more of what I believe in.

Anyhow - Do you prefer female leads because you relate more to them? ;)


Now *that* was trolling.

[Swish]

I'm not trolling. I enjoy deep, thought-provoking discussions, but sensitive people get the wrong idea. Funny how I can post this on other forums, and no one gets offended, yet on others, they do. I personally love it when my ideas are challenged. It puts me to the test, and can sometimes help me grow. Because I either learn something new in a debate or I become more passionate about my own beliefs because a debate forces me to study more of what I believe in.

Anyhow - Do you prefer female leads because you relate more to them? ;)


Now *that* was trolling.

I prefer male leads, because they give me a boner each time.

However the TX in Terminator 3 was one of the bad ass Terminators
Let's not forget John's girlfriend's lead role in the film too.

I can name a dozen female lead action films which are fucking amazing.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/75/Contact_ver2.jpg/220px-Contact_ver2.jpg

http://www.aarongifford.com/lib/img/0800141768.jpg

[dronepool]

Kill Bill.


http://d3ny4pswk2x1ig.cloudfront.net/02556ab2d223dd246522f212d01fa8bab9f1b9196bed18f0f22de2a9.jpg

[Sixx]

I prefer male leads, because they give me a boner each time.

However the TX in Terminator 3 was one of the bad ass Terminators
Let's not forget John's girlfriend's lead role in the film too.

I can name a dozen female lead action films which are fucking amazing.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/75/Contact_ver2.jpg/220px-Contact_ver2.jpg

http://www.aarongifford.com/lib/img/0800141768.jpg

How is Contact an action flick?

Also, Sandra Bullock is destined to forever play a clumsy, but loveable woman in romantic comedies. Fuck that whore.

[Swish]

How is Contact an action flick?

Also, Sandra Bullock is destined to forever play a clumsy, but loveable woman in romantic comedies. Fuck that whore.

Well ok Contact is more Sci-fi based but still.

[DLVH84]

Not really a fetish. Just an old-school mindset and I'm clearly not the only one since MMA and the NFL are popular. I realize the T-X character is dangerous, which is why I wish a more dangerous looking person (as in a brawny man) would have played the part. It's like having a damn chick headline at Wrestlemania while wrestling a man. For a BDSM porno, that sounds fine, but not for Wrestlemania.

When it comes to sports, or violence, or action films - I am very sexist, and old fashion, and think the ladies need to stand to the side. Hell, back in the 80's in the WWF, women were not wrestling and were just eye candy. These days, so much time is wasted on boring women's wrestling matches. Porno is fine, but it needs it's own place.


It seems all this liberal nonsense started in the 90's after we realized Russia was no real threat afterall, and that the biggest threat was Vietnam - Again, the one we least suspected, which is why that angle now reflects too many films. In the 90's, it was the era of the "New Man" who is supposed to be in touch with his feminine side and who looks after his nails and uses moisturiser and hair products. At the same time, there's no longer a clear enemy in global politics, so action films go all gooey. You could argue Terminator 2 started the trend, with a killing machine that learns the value of life and doesn't kill anyone, and a killer robot that looks surprisingly inoffensive (although, to be fair, it worked perfectly). If you think of action movie in the 90s, loads of them were pretty-much disaster movies where the 'enemy' was either nature or aliens - Armageddon, Twister, Jurassic Park, Independence Day, Deep Impact, Volcano, The Matrix. We weren't really sure what we were doing.

At the same time, films became so much softer. Cinema responded to the challenge of TV in the 50s by introducing colour and widescreen, things TV couldn't do. In the 70s, as cinema audiences again fell, they introduced violence and nudity. In the 90s, having to compete with TV and video games, if they made R-rated movies, it would restrict the potential audience to a level that was not economically viable, so you can see a definite trend to 'purify' action movies by cutting down on violence, swearing, gore and nudity to get more bums on seats and thus more cash.


So all and all - Politics and greediness are what is screwing up the action genre of today.

I agree. Get rid of the political red tape and go completely balls out.