Would you build your company around a "Nash" or a "Bryan"?

[Rollermacka]

If you ran your own wrestling promotion, would your top star be someone like Kevin Nash? A guy that was massive physically and wasn't particularly technical but made simple moves like a chop or scoop slam look devistating. Would your top guy be a guy like Daniel Bryan? Somebody who is average physically but could put on a techical wrestling masterpiece with every match?

[itsmeJD]

Is it possible to have Kevin Nash with Daniel Bryan's quads?

[Ultra Mantis]

My top star would be Carlito Caribbean Cool and I'd switch him from apples to mangos.

[Joesgonnakillyou]

Depends on so many factor other than height or technical ability.

[Nicky Fives]

contingent on who I want to watch my program.....

[Gertner]

Kevin Nash. Anybody who says otherwise is retarded.

ROH is barely surviving built around their no drawing vanilla midgets.

[KyleEmmott]

Kevin Nash. True wrestling fans will like to watch Bryan over Nash, but when you're starting a promotion you want that guy that stands out from the pack who's got something no one else has. It will draw in more non-wrestling fans. While Bryan, is a much more skilled wrestler, he wouldn't be the guy to center your company around.

[Rhaps]

Nash.

Nothing against Bryan at all, find him very entertaining, but yeah..If I'm starting my promotion I need a larger-than-life, marketable star, somebody who looks like they can could legit kick a guy's ass half way round the world and back.

Yes, you've got the argument that when a company was built around Big Daddy Cool it tanked, but wrestling in general was in the shitter back then

[XCaliber]

The correct answer would be Nash you can't have a vanilla midget be your franchise player and be succesful sure he can be an intergral part though.

[#1-norm-fan]

A Nash type.

Look is huge if you're trying to get recognition outside just hardcore old school wrestling fans. There would be a place on my roster for guys like Bryan but as far as the "face of my company" and the guy who is gonna make the company look "cool" to the public and more mainstream, Nash.

That's why a guy like Cena will always be way more of a star in the big picture than a guy like Daniel Bryan or to a lesser extent Punk.

[Jordan]

Daniel Bryan... he can wrestle 7 days a week.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

Nash because he has better hair.

[#1-norm-fan]

Based on replies so far: 6-1 for Nash

Actual voting: 5-4 for Bryan

Hmm...

[Rhaps]

Oh, I forgot to actually vote :-|

[My Final Heaven]

I choose answer ¨D¨

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Eytm1EP7msg/Te4vu7wjDPI/AAAAAAAAAaM/RmJHvPwl45A/s1600/the_macho_man_randy_savage_randy.jpg

[KIRA]

I know itll guarantee my soul a seat in hell but Kevin Nash.

[Swiss Ultimate]

You want someone who can entertain a live crowd as well as the people watching your shows on television. Kevin Nash was a decent wrestlers with better than average ring psychology, but he was a draw because of his gift for mic work and his size. He was 2 parts charisma, 1 part spectacle an 1 part fun power-house wrestling.

That said, I was way into Taz in ECW. Felt like he was a legit badass and his mic work was good R-Rated fun. He had the ability to be just as technical as Bryan and he was definitely a midget, but anyone who doesn't love his winning streak and championship reign in ECW is a jerk. It didn't hurt that "hardcore" was in and he had such a unique style when it came to hardcore. Unlike Balls or Newjack, Taz didn't highlight the garbage aspect (neither did RVD for that matter).

I do think that Gertner may secretly enjoy Bryan's cartoonish villain gimmick as much as he hated his vanilla baby-face "character". However, he's having a lot of fun making people here mad and who am I to take that way from him???

[Gertner]

I do enjoy Bryan's gimmick, he's just not a main event guy.

[#1-norm-fan]

I do enjoy Bryan's gimmick, he's just not a main event guy.

This.

I think people confuse enjoying what someone does with "Give them the world title and make them the face of your company".

Certain guys fit certain roles. Mysterio was better in his role in the cruiserweight division than most guys were in their role as main eventers. That doesn't mean he should be doing what they're doing.

This is why WWE should have a cruiserweight division/title again. Smaller, less charismatic guys are very useful and can be entertaining as fuck. Tyson Kidd shouldn't be aiming for the same thing John Cena is aiming for to signify the peak of his success though.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I do enjoy Bryan's gimmick, he's just not a main event guy.

I agree. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy him wrestling main-eventers on RAW and Smackdown in the occasional "main-event". I do think, at this time and maybe for all time, it's premature to think he could carry entire pay-per-views.

I wonder if I my views on Bryan have changed at all. I remember enjoying him during his angry "gimmick" that got him suspended from the WWE for a while and I thought his comeback was good if a little stale after five minutes. I definitely think his current gimmick has legs though.

[Swiss Ultimate]

This.

I think people confuse enjoying what someone does with "Give them the world title and make them the face of your company".

Certain guys fit certain roles. Mysterio was better in his role in the cruiserweight division than most guys were in their role as main eventers. That doesn't mean he should be doing what they're doing.

This is why WWE should have a cruiserweight division/title again. Smaller, less charismatic guys are very useful and can be entertaining as fuck. Tyson Kidd shouldn't be aiming for the same thing John Cena is aiming for to signify the peak of his success though.

Being small doesn't mean being uncharismatic. Plenty of "small" guys have been extremely entertaining. I think the guys with no talent on the mic' should serve as enhancement talent unless they get the right manager and outside of Heyman I doubt the WWE is planning on bringing back managers and valets in a meaningful way.

[Shisen Kopf]

Fake Diesel

[Gertner]

This.

I think people confuse enjoying what someone does with "Give them the world title and make them the face of your company".

Certain guys fit certain roles. Mysterio was better in his role in the cruiserweight division than most guys were in their role as main eventers. That doesn't mean he should be doing what they're doing.

This is why WWE should have a cruiserweight division/title again. Smaller, less charismatic guys are very useful and can be entertaining as fuck. Tyson Kidd shouldn't be aiming for the same thing John Cena is aiming for to signify the peak of his success though.

Guys like Tyson Kidd should be the focus of the Tag Team division. The Hardyz got over barely speaking, as did Edge and Christian until they evolved on the mic. The Tag Division doesn't really require mic skills, although it does help.

[#1-norm-fan]

Being small doesn't mean being uncharismatic. Plenty of "small" guys have been extremely entertaining. I think the guys with no talent on the mic' should serve as enhancement talent unless they get the right manager and outside of Heyman I doubt the WWE is planning on bringing back managers and valets in a meaningful way.

I didn't say being small meant uncharismatic. I threw "less charismatic" in there just as a way to narrow it down to the more "vanilla midgety" type without using the term "vanilla midget".

I don't think having no talent on the mic though should automatically equal enhancement talent. That's a waste. If you've got a guy who's really talented in the ring, don't just waste him like that. Give him a division based solely on an in ring spectacle that he can shine in without having to work the mic.

[Gertner]

I agree. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy him wrestling main-eventers on RAW and Smackdown in the occasional "main-event". I do think, at this time and maybe for all time, it's premature to think he could carry entire pay-per-views.

I wonder if I my views on Bryan have changed at all. I remember enjoying him during his angry "gimmick" that got him suspended from the WWE for a while and I thought his comeback was good if a little stale after five minutes. I definitely think his current gimmick has legs though.

A comparison to Daniel Bryan would be DDP : a good transitional champion, somebody you could plug in as a safe bet but should never be the focus of the brand, or a long term champion. Unfortunately, outside of John Cena, Randy Orton and maybe Sheamus, there really isn't a "Franchise Player". I
didn't overlook CM Punk is that equation. He's not a Franchise Player, and I don't believe he will be.
I do enjoy CM Punk, I just take him for what he is : a guy thrust into long-term main event status because there really isn't anybody else, and it benefits the company more having Cena chase the title instead of holding it.

[#1-norm-fan]

That's mainly directed toward the cruiserweight thing I was saying earlier. Perfect for a guy like Tyson Kidd.

If you mean bigger guys who aren't charismatic but have some talent, yes. Those are the guys who just should be used to make others look good.

[#1-norm-fan]

Yeah, WWE is too set on finding guys who can just settle in the main event picture for a while as opposed to buillding franchise players. Ryback is a good start as long as they don't fuck it up. Cena's not gonna be around forever and Orton can't really be trusted at this point to carry a brand as his third strike can come at any moment. It's a shame.

If they started the push now and let him work his way up, Johnny Curtis could be a franchise player. Just sayin'.

[Gertner]

Yeah, WWE is too set on finding guys who can just settle in the main event picture for a while as opposed to buillding franchise players. Ryback is a good start as long as they don't fuck it up. Cena's not gonna be around forever and Orton can't really be trusted at this point to carry a brand as his third strike can come at any moment. It's a shame.

If they started the push now and let him work his way up, Johnny Curtis could be a franchise player. Just sayin'.

They just need to be patient with Ryback and not thrust him into the main event. Just a bit weary he's going to get the Brodus Clay treatment and spin his wheels squashing low card guys and not really making any upward movement. The whole thing with the Miz seems a bit rushed. The Miz just got the belt and I didn't picture him losing it so fast, because lets face it: anything other than Ryback winning this title is a massive set back.

This has also been my complaint about NXT : there's no variety. Everybody on that show is 6"2-6"4 220 pounds. There's nobody on that show that screams "main event". Even Bray Wyatt who I adore. Big. E. Langston seems to have a lot of upside, but guys like Rollins, Ohno just don't have the look and I can see them being a focal point of the company down the line, when they really shouldn't be.

[#1-norm-fan]

They just need to be patient with Ryback and not thrust him into the main event. Just a bit weary he's going to get the Brodus Clay treatment and spin his wheels squashing low card guys and not really making any upward movement. The whole thing with the Miz seems a bit rushed. The Miz just got the belt and I didn't picture him losing it so fast, because lets face it: anything other than Ryback winning this title is a massive set back.

Ryback gets a title shot against The Miz on PPV, he's about to win and someone like The Big Show comes in and attacks causing the DQ. Sets up Ryback focusing on the new guy while Miz kinda sneaks out of the picture with his title still in tact.

This has also been my complaint about NXT : there's no variety. Everybody on that show is 6"2-6"4 220 pounds. There's nobody on that show that screams "main event". Even Bray Wyatt who I adore. Big. E. Langston seems to have a lot of upside, but guys like Rollins, Ohno just don't have the look and I can see them being a focal point of the company down the line, when they really shouldn't be.

I can see Bray Wyatt as a main event heel down the road. He's so good and his character is so creepy and "realistic evil" and, most importantly, different from all the generic heels on the roster right now. He could be an AMAZING antagonist for face champion.

[Ruien]

Kevin Nash. Anybody who says otherwise is retarded.

ROH is barely surviving built around their no drawing vanilla midgets.

This. Honestly this is the same thing as asking "Is ROH mainstream?" and the correct response to that is no. Sure having a Bryan around is not going to kill your company but not having your heavyweights like Kevin Nash around will.

[Gertner]

Ryback gets a title shot against The Miz on PPV, he's about to win and someone like The Big Show comes in and attacks causing the DQ. Sets up Ryback focusing on the new guy while Miz kinda sneaks out of the picture with his title still in tact.



I can see Bray Wyatt as a main event heel down the road. He's so good and his character is so creepy and "realistic evil" and, most importantly, different from all the generic heels on the roster right now. He could be an AMAZING antagonist for face champion.

Your scenario with the Miz/ Big Show would work fine.

I really hope Bray Wyatt works out well. There's so many cool things you could do with him.

[Swiss Ultimate]

A comparison to Daniel Bryan would be DDP : a good transitional champion, somebody you could plug in as a safe bet but should never be the focus of the brand, or a long term champion. Unfortunately, outside of John Cena, Randy Orton and maybe Sheamus, there really isn't a "Franchise Player". I
didn't overlook CM Punk is that equation. He's not a Franchise Player, and I don't believe he will be.
I do enjoy CM Punk, I just take him for what he is : a guy thrust into long-term main event status because there really isn't anybody else, and it benefits the company more having Cena chase the title instead of holding it.

This actually hurts my heart to read this. I feel this is incredibly unfair to DDP who was so crazy over during his "People's Champ" run in WCW that I think he should have had a long championship run to cash in on his popularity. Not to mention he was great on the mic. Bryan has never been as fun on the mic' or as good with ring psychology as DDP in my opinion either...it really saddens me that we're not on the same page as far as DDP goes.

[MoFo]

Nash, b/c Gertner is right.

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

1995 was a pretty bad year and he was the champion for 11 out of the 12 months of 1995. One of the worst WrestleManias and SummerSlams of all time were under his watch as WWE Champion. It's not all his fault, but in today's world I would base a company on a Daniel Bryan. Maybe just a tad bit taller, but DB is jacked. He is in way better shape proportional to his frame than Kevin Nash ever was.

[James Steele]

You gotta be fucking kidding me with DDP as "transitional champion". DDP was easily one of the hottest things in wrestling from 1998-1999. WCW was stupid and didn't cash in on it until it was too late. DDP should have beaten Goldberg to win his first World Championship.

[Wishbone]

Honestly neither of them is "Face of the company" material. Nash was good on the mic but other than that he was average everywhere. Bryan is awesome but he's not charismatic enough to be a "franchise player". I'd build around a Sheamus, a guy who has decent charisma, looks intimidating and has some ability to move without looking like he's gonna die.

[Jordan]

Nobody went to shows to see Nash, plenty of people go for Daniel Bryan.

[Curd]

I voted Nash because although Bryan is improving his promos, much of that has been through comedy. As has been said about Jericho, comedy works for a midcarder but not so much for a main eventer who needs to be seen as the Big Kahuna.

Cena and The Rock use comedy sparingly because it's secondary to their respective dominant personality traits of perseverance and bad-assness. Technical wrestling skills do not translate well to a personality trait which the fans would relate to.

[Keith]

Depends on which "Nash" we're talking about.

If it's WCW/beat Goldberg "Nash" (circa 1998), no.

If it's WWF/Diesel "Nash" (circa late 1994 to Spring 1996), yes.

[CSL]

Kevin Nash. True wrestling fans will like to watch Bryan over Nash, but when you're starting a promotion you want that guy that stands out from the pack who's got something no one else has. It will draw in more non-wrestling fans. While Bryan, is a much more skilled wrestler, he wouldn't be the guy to center your company around.

lol "true wrestling fans", that's nonsense buddy

edit: I know the point you're putting across here but "true wrestling fans" just sounds awful

Depends on which "Nash" we're talking about.

If it's WCW/beat Goldberg "Nash" (circa 1998), no.

If it's WWF/Diesel "Nash" (circa late 1994 to Spring 1996), yes.

a difference of two years where the main difference was in fact that Big Kev had a different hair colour

[Skippord]

why can't I build my company around someone like John Cena or Sting or something?

[Keith]

a difference of two years where the main difference was in fact that Big Kev had a different hair colour

In Kevin Nash's case, hair color matters. And when you're going to build a company around somebody, look is everything.

Also, during the late 1994 to Spring 1996, Nash had his best matches.

In essence, this guy:

http://i.imgur.com/MFlSJ.jpg


Over this guy:

http://i.imgur.com/GZAxy.jpg

[Corporate CockSnogger]

WCW Nash was fantastic though.

[Keith]

On the mic and in terms of charisma, yes.

[Corporate CockSnogger]

And in hair volume.

[Joesgonnakillyou]

What size promotion is this? Am i making a WCW style product fuelled by an eccentric billionaire? Or am i starting this in a bingo hall? Where is it based?

Who is this hypothetical Nash? And the hypothetical Bryan?

The question's flawed

[Joesgonnakillyou]

Can i have a hypothetical Steve Austin or The Rock?

I'd be swimming in the hypothetical money!

[CSL]

In Kevin Nash's case, hair color matters. And when you're going to build a company around somebody, look is everything.

legit have no idea if you're being serious hurrr

[Kane Knight]

Neither, because both are fucking stupid.

[Rock Bottom]

Neither one could carry a company, so fuck them both?

[Kane Knight]

Did...Did rock Bottom just echo the same sentiment as me?

Why is the sky blood red?

[Emperor Smeat]

Depends what the cut off height is for your big man since the debate is basically Big Man vs technical wrestler. Cena himself is about half a foot smaller than Nash but isn't considered as a "Big Man" type nor is a technical wrestler and yet became a mega star.

I'd pick a "Bryan" type guy mostly because he can move merchandise since his gimmick is very popular with the crowd while being reliable to produce constant matches in the ring. Crowds also tend to get bored pretty easy from Big Men wrestlers which is why they get replaced at a faster rate than others for main event purposes.

It doesn't mean the whole company revolves around "Bryan" type wrestlers since then you lose the thing that separates your company from others who just favor Big Men.

[Swiss Ultimate]

I'm sure Bryan sells way more merch than Nash ever did. :l

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm sure Bryan sells way more merch than Nash ever did. :l

Are we counting NWO merch?

[#1-norm-fan]

why can't I build my company around someone like John Cena or Sting or something?

Well if Cena were an option he would blow both Bryan and Nash out of the water.

[Emperor Smeat]

Are we counting NWO merch?

No since it would show up as a Hogan sale in WCW :shifty:

[Kane Knight]

No since it would show up as a Hogan sale in WCW :shifty:

Pretty Sure Hogan never sold in WCW.

[James Steele]

Pretty Sure Hogan never sold in WCW.

http://gifsoup.com/view3/1364902/slow-clap-o.gif

[Tom Guycott]

D.Bryan.

Because he has 'til 5. :shifty:



Honestly, I don't really understand all this hero worship of Nash. He's like the anti-Cena in that people just profess their undying devotion to him for no reason. Like loving him is obligatory. Yeah, he's a funny/charismatic person, but I was never a super huge fan of his as a wrestler... he didn't really entertain me while he was in the ring. Didn't even really do it out of it until his Outsiders days.

I also suspect if it weren't for the whole kliq/nWo thing, mostly everyone else wouldn't be such big fans either... he'd be "that one guy who Shawn Michaels used to hide behind back when he was being a chickenshit heel".

Besides, if I were building said fed, I'd be building around Danielson like ECW built around Douglas, TNA (originally) did with AJ Styles, and WCW did with Sting. He would obviously be more affordable AND be physically able to work for me for years to come.

Nash could put asses in seats off of his history, but if I'm doing my job in building/promoting correctly, I would have to worry more about WWE wanting him (Danielson) back or poaching any other talent they may take a shine to than people coming to my show for a "remember when...?" with Big Kev. Nostalgia can only get you so far, and after awhile, it'll get old.

[#1-norm-fan]

I think the question was a Bryan or Nash "type".

Not literally Bryan or Nash.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Honestly, I don't really understand all this hero worship of Nash. He's like the anti-Cena in that people just profess their undying devotion to him for no reason. Like loving him is obligatory. Yeah, he's a funny/charismatic person, but I was never a super huge fan of his as a wrestler... he didn't really entertain me while he was in the ring. Didn't even really do it out of it until his Outsiders days.

I also suspect if it weren't for the whole kliq/nWo thing, mostly everyone else wouldn't be such big fans either... he'd be "that one guy who Shawn Michaels used to hide behind back when he was being a chickenshit heel".


You weren't a fan, so you wouldn't understand. A whole lot of people were fans of his even before he became nWo Kevin Nash. As for his in-ring work, a lot of people are entertained by that style of dominating big man wrestling. These are the reasons he was so beloved by regular fans. Dumb internet fans like us love his mic work and his shoot interviews.

I don't get the second thing in bold at all. The same could be said about so many other people and angles etc.

If it weren't for the whole Hogan bodyslamming Andre thing...

If it weren't for The Rock turning heel and becoming the Corporate Champion...

If it weren't for Steve Austin cutting his hair and becoming a psychopath....

[Tom Guycott]

Clarification: I meant people (read: smarks, or people who thought they were) knowing about his relationship with his friends, not the actual nWo angle in and of itself.

Kinda like how Redman & Method Man made albums, movies, and TV shows together solely off the fact that they're close friends. In the realm of Hip-Hop, they had little to do with each other. People wanted to know more about the MSG curtain call and things of that nature. In this way, Nash became a point of interest for something besides just being a tall guy in a wrestling ring.

I think the question was a Bryan or Nash "type".

Not literally Bryan or Nash.

What do you mean by Nash type, then? Would that be "an intimidating big man with a limited moveset, yet who looks the shit as opposed to a vanilla midget that can go from bell to bell that Vinnie Mac *wouldn't mistake for a superstar* " or "an immobile veteran with lots of mic skill vs a fairly character un-established younger worker"?

Changes the context of my answer to the question, but not my answer.

[#1-norm-fan]

What do you mean by Nash type, then? Would that be "an intimidating big man with a limited moveset, yet who looks the shit as opposed to a vanilla midget that can go from bell to bell that Vinnie Mac *wouldn't mistake for a superstar* " or "an immobile veteran with lots of mic skill vs a fairly character un-established younger worker"?

If you ran your own wrestling promotion, would your top star be someone like Kevin Nash? A guy that was massive physically and wasn't particularly technical but made simple moves like a chop or scoop slam look devistating. Would your top guy be a guy like Daniel Bryan? Somebody who is average physically but could put on a techical wrestling masterpiece with every match?

[Kane Knight]

So...You mean exactly what it says on the tin?

Shocking.

[Rock Bottom]

Did...Did rock Bottom just echo the same sentiment as me?

Why is the sky blood red?

The sky is blood red because you did not have an incorrect opinion on this subject, I guess

[SlickyTrickyDamon]

Sheamus is the new Diesel to me. He was great when he was a heel, so they turned him face and it hasn't been great.

[Damndirty]

Um... no.