An old-school fan's view on today's WWE

[Zeeboe]

I admit I am a very grumpy old man when it comes to today's wrestling. All I ever ramble about for the most part are the old days and how wrestling today stinks. However, I am watching this on YouTube -

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3shC4VdXBbA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(Granted, the clip is a year old but to me one year ago is like yesterday so no nit-picking please.)

This is a damn good promo. Reason being is because Triple H is a vet of course and comes from the old-school so he knows how to cut a promo and C.M. Punk is impressing me as well. I need to believe that the wrestlers believe what they are saying when they speak, and most of the young wrestlers are just bad B-rated actors in my view. But the above promo is fucking wonderful. :y: Very intense and very real sounding. The only thing about the promo I dislike however is that FOUR times Triple H says to C.M. Punk that Triple H's opinion on Punk doesn't matter - It's the people's. Yes, I get it Hunter! Stop repeating yourself. It was good the first time you said it, but you're just making it weak by saying it over and over again.

I don't like C.M. Punk.....and that's a good thing. :) It means he is doing his job well. In my final days as a wrestling fan, most of the heels use to annoy me so much that I had no desire to see them on TV and they were one of the reasons why I stopped watching. I turn on today's wrestling sometimes and I still can't stand the heels or the faces because most are so phony. However C.M. Punk and Randy Orton are the only two heels I dislike in a good way. I want to see them get their asses kicked. Those are honestly the only two young wrestlers I care for. There was another wrestler I saw once on Raw back in late 2010 when I just randomly stumbled upon Raw that impressed me too - Can't recall his name, but he was like some shoot-style dude....looked really young and was like a young Bob Backlund kinda. He had a good look and his wrestling skills were good. I never heard him do a promo, but even if he couldn't do an interview if he had a manager speak for him I thought he could go far, but he may not even in the WWE anymore. I'm not a big Cena fan by the way. I hate wiggers. He's one of those wrestlers who causes me not to watch. As for the rest of the boys - With the exception of the few vets that are still around, I know nothing about today's superstars.

Speaking of good current promos, I liked that promo Undertaker did with Triple H and HBK a week before Wrestlemania this year. The Rock's promos against John Cena were good as well. But again - Those guys are old-school, so not sure if that counts. It's the young guys who need to start doing promos like that. If we could have more promos like Undertaker's, Rock's, and the one in the above clip I posted, I'd start watching wrestling again.

Actual wrestling is fine, but I need to have a reason to cheer or boo a guy. i.e. I need an emotional connection to the wrestlers - If I don't have that connection, all the wrestling matches are, are just men pretending to hurt each other and that's not good enough for me. It may be good for others, but not me. I'd rather watch MMA because at least that's real. But I miss wrestling. :( I use to look forward to Monday night's. I haven't had a emotional connection to wrestling in almost ten years. All I have is nostalgia and my memories and I do enjoy that, but it would be nice to watch a wrestling match and not know the result of it for once as well as create new memories with today's wrestlers.

[Steveviscious89]

Well....that was a good segment, but that's kind of beside the point here.

The fact is the older you get, and also depending on other outside factors, the harder it is to become emotionally invested in something that you know is not real. You could go back and watch the old footage and I'll bet you find yourself a little less enchanted with it....I know that's how I am. So...I find it hard to judge for myself how good or bad wrestling is...all I know is that not as many people are interested in it and the number keeps dropping every year. So....I don't necessarily think the reason you don't watch anymore is the for same reason that WWE isn't as popular anymore...I just think that's more of an age thing.

[Kane Knight]

The fact is the older you get, and also depending on other outside factors, the harder it is to become emotionally invested in something that you know is not real.

I wonder if anyone has ever made this argument for television and movies at large.

[Kane Knight]

That applies to Zeebs I guess, too.

[Schlomey]

He's not as large anymore, Kane. His dick looks bigger especially in mirror shots to his friends in the chat rooms.



(no i did not read anything else in this thread)

[DLVH84]

I wonder if anyone has ever made this argument for television and movies at large.

I do. I always criticize Hollywood for remaking everything and the lack of originality.

[#1-norm-fan]

I do. I always criticize Hollywood for remaking everything and the lack of originality.

I don't think you read the quote he was posing the question about...

[Kane Knight]

I do. I always criticize Hollywood for remaking everything and the lack of originality.

But do you criticise them for being fake because you've got older and can no longer get as invested in a scripted medium?

I don't think you read the quote he was posing the question about...

Who are you accusing of posing?

...are you watching me shower?

[#1-norm-fan]

http://www.tpww.net/forums/image.php?u=115&dateline=1347430834

[Kane Knight]

I do have to admit, however, the pinnacle of acting really should be judged by your ability to break the fourth wall and say stuff out of character.

Also, a minor pet peeve but I hate pop culture references as references in themselves.

On the plus side, it's funny watching even CM Punk buy into the notion that he outpopped DX.

(cue WeX to whine)

[Shisen Kopf]

I didn't read the original post bc it looked too long and from the thread title I know this about old school stuff. Plus there's a Triple H video. So let me conclude by saying the ATTITUDE ERA was fookin great! Woooooooo! Also, Bushwhacker Luke=above average

[owenbrown]

ok, people really need to stop trying to out-Noid post Noid

[XL]

Let's be fair, Noid's Noid posts are at the least original and at most entertaining if not realistic. This on the other hand is another "Whawawa, I liked wrestling the way it was when I was a kid and/or teenager".

Whilst OK does have a point about judging other mediums in the same way, I do think there is something there with regard to "attachment to the product".

Most of us got into wrestling when we were kids, when the wrestlers were live action cartoon characters/superheroes with God-like physiques. We didn't know out was staged, we bought into the spectacle and showmanship of it all.

The Attitude Era saw us though our teenage years - a period of life notorious for rebellion and, well, attitude. What we saw on screen reflected how we felt. Stone Cold's Devil May Care, action-without-considering-the-ramifications persona probably connected with us more than we realised.

Nowadays the product isn't geared towards us, the late-20s, early-30s crowd. Perhaps we don't have the same connection we previously had.

Either way, the product is still enjoyable, to me at least.

[ron the dial]

I do have to admit, however, the pinnacle of acting really should be judged by your ability to break the fourth wall and say stuff out of character.

Also, a minor pet peeve but I hate pop culture references as references in themselves.

On the plus side, it's funny watching even CM Punk buy into the notion that he outpopped DX.

(cue WeX to whine)
you're so cute, baby. hold on tight.

[Kane Knight]

And you're so predictable, baby.

[ron the dial]

at least we're both consistent in that aspect.

[Kane Knight]

Let's be fair, Noid's Noid posts are at the least original and at most entertaining if not realistic.

The first one, perhaps. He's milked the same four or five ideas for like a decade. The only reason people don't notice is they see a wall o text and assume he's put effort into it (as opposed to just changing the names and events).

[Kane Knight]

at least we're both consistent in that aspect.

Yeah, we are both consistent in your predictability. :)

[Zeeboe]

Let's be fair, Noid's Noid posts are at the least original and at most entertaining if not realistic. This on the other hand is another "Whawawa, I liked wrestling the way it was when I was a kid and/or teenager".

Whilst OK does have a point about judging other mediums in the same way, I do think there is something there with regard to "attachment to the product".

Most of us got into wrestling when we were kids, when the wrestlers were live action cartoon characters/superheroes with God-like physiques. We didn't know out was staged, we bought into the spectacle and showmanship of it all.

The Attitude Era saw us though our teenage years - a period of life notorious for rebellion and, well, attitude. What we saw on screen reflected how we felt. Stone Cold's Devil May Care, action-without-considering-the-ramifications persona probably connected with us more than we realised.

Nowadays the product isn't geared towards us, the late-20s, early-30s crowd. Perhaps we don't have the same connection we previously had.

Either way, the product is still enjoyable, to me at least.

The post following mine, Kane Knight's first post, and the above post were the only intelligent and mature replies and I thank you fellas for that.

Like the older wrestlers who have to stand aside for the younger wrestlers, I an older wrestling fan should (and have) step aside for the younger wrestling fans and should realize wrestling is geared towards the very young for the most part.

Also like the older wrestlers, nostalgia is all I have now, and like them, I may watch a Raw sometimes (much like how they may show up on Raw for a cameo),

If for example in 1995, I came across some 30-year old man who use to be a wrestling fan, I would have hated hearing him ramble about Superstar Billy Graham and how things were better in the 70's. I have no desire to be that guy, so yes, I should accept the fact that I am retired as a fan and that complaining about the current generation is a sign of aging and it's time to move on and let the young fans have their fun without an old timer like me complaining.



In regards of movies - I don't like most of today's films. :lol: I come across a few good ones every year, but rarely do I come across epic one these days. I'm old-school when it comes to films too. I don't even watch TV anymore either or sports or listen to today's music. I'm old-school 4 life.

The generation I was apart of was and is so good that I have very high standards when it comes to any type of entertainment, and I just prefer to live in the generation I started in forever. Hell, I bought my first cell phone in 2006 and it was a cheap and boring phone because I choose for it to be. It was only last year that I got an Iphone. I also currently refuse to get a Kindle and prefer to read books the old-fashioned way.

I am years behind the times, self-admitted. I'm a young man for sure, but I'm like a young man in the 1980's - Not 2012.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't buy that you just "grow out" of it because there's something intrinsic within pro wrestling that forces it. It's a unique form of entertainment in a lot of ways but at it's core it still depends mainly on emotional investment just like any other form of entertainment. If it's well done and creative enough to pull you in, it does. If it's not, you're gonna turn away from it. Or you're gonna keep watching it despite the lack of creativity because you feel years of emotional investment and the product has become more of an "old friend" that you're gonna stick with even if your attention isn't fully focused on it anymore.

I think a good portion of us fall into the later category.

[#1-norm-fan]

And while I probably give more shit to WWE's creative direction/writing than anyone else here, once in a while there is something they put out that I would take over any other television show or movie. It usually involves part-timers like Rock and Lesnar who they don't have access to on a weekly basis to butcher the character and make them vanilla but it's there on occasion.

[Zeeboe]

The thing is, I consider the wrestlers themselves my old friends and when they all leave, my friends are no longer there so I leave with them.

The reason why I don't watch wrestling anymore is because in short, wrestling became waaaaay too repetitive and predictable for me. Then as much as I liked "Tough Enough", and the wrestler's bios, both took so much of the mystic away from wrestling. Finally, the wrestlers are all my age and I see them as my equals, and for some reason, wrestling was more entertaining to me when the wrestlers were old enough to be my fathers and I saw them as my superiors. They were like gods to me, and they were figuratively speaking ten-feet tall, whereas today's wrestlers are the same size as me if you catch my drift.

Finally, as much as I respect and admire Vince McMahon, what he did to two of my favorite wrestlers of all time - Bret and Owen Hart really put a giant emotion scar on me that I never recovered from. It made me realize that to Vince wrestlers really were just circus animals to him. It wasn't until Vince kept getting bad press that he seemed to finally start acting like he cared about all his wrestlers - past and present.

[#1-norm-fan]

The thing is, I consider the wrestlers themselves my old friends and when they all leave, my friends are no longer there so I leave with them.

It's not a situation where "one group leaves, the next group enters" though so that's not an intrinsic issue with wrestling.

Ideally, you've got new guys getting over while the guys who are over are still around so you're never lacking. If the writing sucks, that's not happening and when a guy goes away, they haven't built anyone else up to keep you around.

[NormanSmiley]

i am curious where you guys stand on UFC. hear me out for a minute.

im in that group thats been mentioned here, grew up on wrestling through the cartoons,was a teen through the attitude and now still watch the show but find the lack of any character depth irritating. where some would say its not geared toward us cause its fake and pg wouldnt that push us more to the UFC arena. there is the real fights, geared toward adults, does it push you guys toward it?

for me i have never gotten into UFC other than when brock was in it and when its in vegas cause i live here and it brings in good money to the town. but the spectacle of UFC thats marketed toward me now does nothing for me, i still prefer a bad wwe over the ufc.

[#1-norm-fan]

So do I. I can't get into the sport of it like I can with football and even though they have had some "characters" like Brock, there's not enough of an entertainment aspect for me to be interested in it. WWE still has the possibility of good drama.

[#1-norm-fan]

I do wish WWE was capable of building up matches and making every match matter like UFC does though.

[NormanSmiley]

agree 1000% #1. the pg part is fine, the lack of non attitude is fine. to me what still draws me in is a good build of a fued and thats where E is so lacking right now other than the main event of each ppv there are just throw in matches that have no storylines

[#1-norm-fan]

Even Orton-del Rio is kinda just thrown together. There is no sense of the outcome having any major implications be it contendership for a title, placement on the card or just pride.

[XL]

Really not into UFC, I get the appeal but to me a lot of the matches are boring with 2 guys tyring to grab each other.

I also understand why people like Zeeboe don't connect with the current WWE product. The writing/booking sucks in general with the knock on effect being a lack of character depth, a lack of new stars waiting for that last push to stardom, engaging angles to keep you tuning in, etc.

Dare I say it, TNA are actually better in most/all those areas.

[#1-norm-fan]

TNA is definitely more consistently better in most of those areas. And that's not even much of a compliment to TNA since they don't seem to completely "get it" either. When WWE strikes gold and gets it right though, usually in situations involving guys like Rock or Lesnar who they don't have constant access to, TNA isn't in the same ballpark.

[Zeeboe]

They really need to change the name - TNA....makes me think of tits and ass. Of course the ultra-TNA fan boys on the net would go ape shit if that happened and blame Hogan.

[stultiloquy]

agree 1000% #1. the pg part is fine, the lack of non attitude is fine. to me what still draws me in is a good build of a fued and thats where E is so lacking right now other than the main event of each ppv there are just throw in matches that have no storylines

Yeah, this pretty much sums up my stance on the current product.

I think part of what made the era of wrestling that Zeeboe (and others) long for is that the entire roster carried weight.
There was always something going on with the main event of course, but there was build up and storylines for the IC scene, EU scene, Hardcore title, Women's title, etc...

As it is now, the select few wrestlers in the main event scene are the ones that get storylines and get attention focused on their matches (even if it is hastily strewn together nonsense).
Doubly compounding the lack of depth is that the title matches always revolve around those same few individuals, which can get stale pretty quickly, especially considering how regimented the product is these days.
That's not a slight against the PG format, but rather how the performers used to be in charge of their matches up to the finish. As it is now, there isn't any match variation when you have producers dictating your every move in the ring for every match.

The lumberjack match this past Monday was a great example of how little attention is being paid to the mid/undercard. I didn't recognize nearly half of the wrestlers, and some of them I thought were fired a long time ago.

[Kane Knight]

They really need to change the name - TNA....makes me think of tits and ass. Of course the ultra-TNA fan boys on the net would go ape shit if that happened and blame Hogan.

Wasn't TNA changed to Impact Wrestling like a year ago?

[crusnik]

I agree with Zeeboe.Being an old wrestling fan myself,I believe that you should have a reason why you like /hate a wrestler.Today's wrestling does get repetative like you "wrote the script" or something like that.As far seeing some fan who been through the 70's... I am one of those fans (tho I don't ramble ..much lol),seeing wrestling evolve from back when Bruno Sammartino was champ up till today does make a person realize how far wrestling has come and what you think it should go back to ( managers for instance)and what new things are happening today are noteworthy (make a wish foundation etc.) Well.. there's my 2 cents,thanks.

[Zeeboe]

Wasn't TNA changed to Impact Wrestling like a year ago?

I don't know - Was it? I never watch it.

[Kane Knight]

That makes two of us.

Well, probably all of us.

[Curd]

Wasn't TNA changed to Impact Wrestling like a year ago?

Yes, and tnawrestling.com redirects to impactwrestling.com...

The name Impact! is evidently modeled after Smackdown!, both being forceful collisions punctuated with an exclamation point. Mike Tenay has been saying cheesy lines on commentary lately such as, "Sting leaves his feet for a clothesline...to add more impact...on Impact!" I have to watch WCW footage to remind myself why they call him The Professor.

[Zeeboe]

In regards of movies - I don't like most of today's films. :lol:

I take this back - There are plenty of good modern films I enjoy and unlike most of today's wrestling, in my view, I feel most films I have seen are not predictable.

[Shisen Kopf]

They really need to change the name - TNA....makes me think of tits and ass. Of course the ultra-TNA fan boys on the net would go ape shit if that happened and blame Hogan.

They should merge with Ring of Honor. Ring of Total Nonstop Honor Action, Bitch! Would be their name. RTNHAB just rolls of the tongue too.

[drave]

They should merge with Ring of Honor. Ring of Total Nonstop Honor Action, Bitch! Would be their name. RTNHAB just rolls of the tongue too.

Shisen...... dude, you know that name is already being used in China, with monkeys + elephants. Cmon man!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Kane Knight]

Shisen...... dude, you know that name is already being used in China, with monkeys + elephants. Cmon man!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Monkeys have amazing workrate. And they cut the kind of promo smarks like.

[BigCrippyZ]

Monkeys cut the kind of promo smarks like.

So they just throw shit at each other until something sticks?

[Mr. Nerfect]

The first one, perhaps. He's milked the same four or five ideas for like a decade. The only reason people don't notice is they see a wall o text and assume he's put effort into it (as opposed to just changing the names and events).

I'm always trying to come up with new stuff that comes from the character and personalities of the individuals involved, but to play into your accusations -- when it comes to basic storytelling, there are the seven types. The wheel doesn't always need to be reinvented. In fact, there's a reason the wheel works so well.

Also, I can't believe you can't accept that Punk out-popped DX at Survivor Series 2006. There is video evidence of this. You like to argue and put words into people's mouths (I mean that ever-so-affectionately...truthfully) -- it's your style -- but it's not like you to ignore facts.

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying that CM Punk was consistently more over in more places than DX in 2006. But that you can deny the Philly crowd choosing to chant "CM Punk!" during DX's spiel is amazing. Especially when you have Triple H incorporating Punk into their shtick on the fly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I have no cared about the WWE much recently, for the record. I find Team Hell No really entertaining. As personalities, I think the last team I enjoyed this much was Booker T & Goldust. CM Punk is a fantastic worker, promo and one of the best actors on such a badly acted show; but I haven't really been into his heel stuff. Mainly because I totally agree with him. It used to be that being the WWE Champion meant you were the top guy, and now apparently there is a constant question mark next to that?

Dolph Ziggler is really great, but he doesn't make me want to tune-in as a character. He's a great worker and a good promo, but I want to see him feuding with someone, I guess.

I dunno -- I just don't really care at the moment. I think the WWE needs to create a stir. A heel turn from John Cena against CM Punk earlier this year might have done the trick, but that boat has been missed, now that Punk has committed himself to being a heel (a role he does admittedly play a lot better). And for the record, I know that Cena was never going to turn heel, since there is much kid-friendly merchandise being sold on his behalf -- but I don't think it can be denied that it would have created a stir and freshened the product up.